It may seem pedantic or nitpicky or other such words, but MTG has usually been good with demonstrating such small minuet details about fishing, agriculture, and hunting. Sometimes those themes are actually predominate on the world.
For example. Amonkhet you can say with certainy had functioning farms, fishing, even orchards despite the fact that it was just this one place on the plane. Innistrad, Theros, and also Tarkir have also demonstrated similar things.
The uncertainty on something as simple as fishing or hunting on Ikoria means that the worldbuilding has failed in certain ways. The worldbuilding as a whole hasn't failed, but now the counterpoint would exist of "don't think about it to deeply" as its an acknowledgement that world is more shallow than it actually appears. Even among the basic land arts, its less about the humans and more about how alien it looks.
This reminds me of the contention between Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas. Fallout 3 was criticized as "big yet unrealistic" for the easiest question of "where does their food or water come from" which had seem ignored by the teams. When Obsidian took their crack at it, they included farms with chain-link fences to show that the world felt more alive in addition to other things.
It may seem unimportant, yet to a person who is using the world as escapism such details help solidify their opinions of its quality. Innistrad while a horror plane still feels like a lived in world, Ikoria is like going to a theme park that is held with bubblegum.
On the MTGNexus forums, it was pointed out that Ikoria failed in its storytelling and worldbuilding because its a new plane with only a singular set. While Dominaria worked as a single set because Dominaria for the most part is a well-established plane with a rich history, so it can get away with not having to show you as much of the very same minutiae.
Kinnan, Bonder ProdigyUG Legendary Creature - Human Druid (MR)
Whenever you tap a nonland permanent for mana, add one mana of any type that permanent produced. 5GU: Look at the top five cards of your library. You may put a non-Human creature card from among them onto the battlefield. Put the rest on the bottom of your library. 2/2
This is a thread about whether the powercreep of Kinnan and if it warrants a ban.
To preface, the following, I believe that Kinnan will always be an unfun commander to play againgst even when toned down in consisteny from deckbuilding.
Kinnan's static ability is the most similar to Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary or Selvala, Heart of the Wilds as it bolsters mana production.
Kinnan's activated ability is very similar Mayael the Anima activated ability, yet without the tap symbol making it a potentially infinite sink.
Kinnan is similar to Rofellos in terms of body and cost, yet they 1 more toughness making it slightly harder to remove them.
Kinnan is similar to Mayael, Rofellos, and Selvala in that they all have access to green, yet Kinnen has access to blue.
Kinnan can make infinite colorless mana with just a Basalt Monolith, the others cannot.
Kinnan can make infinite colored mana when using a Birds of Paradise and a Freed From the Real.
Kinnan turns simple mana rocks and manadorks like an Arcane Signet or a Llanowar Elves into mini rituals.
Kinnan can outpace Rofellos in terms of mana production when using non-infinite mana.
Kinnan is viewed by the CEDH and EDH communities on Reddit as an unabashedly competitive card.
Kinnan is a very easy to abuse commander even if unintentionally for even a new player who slots in the typical manarocks and dorks.
Kinnan will create an unfun player experience when they explode early on in the first few turns even when unoptimized against similarly unoptimized decks.
Eat your heart out Haktos the Unscarred. Something that is easier to cast, at the same rarity, has an easier to control protection. Probably will be at least a dollar bin rare at minimum if not better if it does find a good home. Which is far better than the quarter-bin rare that Haktos is spiraling in.
If it wasn't for the 1-of rule, it would be the most silly mechanic they printed to date. As if your deck is just your commander + 99 lands, you technically would meet the requirements for all companions as each of them care about you having lands + requirement. So you could have commander + 99 lands + 4 companions. Couldn't be 5 as your commander could be even or odd.
This place has become a shill echo chamber. You can’t say anything against WotC without people and moderators REEEEEing! you for it.
Remember silly, It's do as I say not do as I do.
Ignore function works great to block out the children.
5 Fetches should have been $40 for all five and they would have sold 10 times the amount they will at 165 to 200 a pop. But WotC's greed seems to outstrip their stupidity on this "Ultimate" product. Hard Pass.
Yeah and some LGS owners have described this product as "a poisoned olive branch" or "an olive branch that is actually a cactus".
And I'm certain that was the point from Wizards. As it will make their normal Secret Lair products that are direct to purchase look good in comparison to this.
Oh would you look at that, I was right last time, ty Loa. They were raising the price by raising the base cost at first until they are now just flat-out raising the price. Its so blatant in their greed its practically a comedy that writes itself.
Why does it matter? I'm talking about their pricing. They are increasing their pricing immediatly with the second wind of this product.
By increasing their pricing do you mean leaving it the same or something else? Because they aren't increasing their pricing it is still 39.99
The initial secret lairs had $30 lairs, only 2:7 were $40. The following one had only one lair at $40. The third one has five secret lairs at $40 but no $30 lairs.
The illusion is that they haven't raised the price. But if they don't also have $30 lairs, then the price is rising without an announcement having to be made as the $30 secret lairs might be discontinued.
EDH isnt really casual though. Most of the people who play it are hardcore magic players and the format is terrible for beginners. Its just most of the EDH players were bad at competitive play and want a space to where they can warp the rules that suite them. If EDH was a person, it would like Yugi from yugioh when he makes up his own rules to beat whoever he is playing against. Its mental and you have to be kinda mental to be into it.
Yeah. Gets worse when you realize its recommended for new players by more experienced players and by the company itself. Its like giving your kid their first bike, but without the training wheels, and its a bike meant for an adult-sized person.
Read some history and look at the context about the format of the time it was made. Look at who made the format. Look at why. It will enlighten your perspective and give you some basis to form an argument. Right now you are not making coherent arguments regarding the format. We here are seeing complaints about your LGS, in this thread's current form.
Hipster movement done by judges who didn't like how everyone played what was meta/mainstream in competitive environments.
This. Also WoTC "officially" supporting it was just a marketing move. Has zero to do with game balance.
Also I left my LGS a long time ago since it was infested with EDH players. Hanging out with neckbeards who take themselves too seriously is not fun. Magic is not that damn serious unless going to your LGS is your whole life.
Gets more poignant when you consider that EDH/Commander was a counterculture thing. It then got co-opted by advertisements and merchandise created by Wizards. Casual outside of EDH is practically a wasteland. As to take some lyrics from Smash Mouth's "Walking on the Sun" which is about the same subject matter involving the hippie movement and anti-vietnam rhetoric at the time:
Some were spellbound, some were hell bound
Some they fell down and some got back up
And fought back against the melt-down
And their kids were hippie chicks or hypocrites
Because fashion is smashin' the true meaning of it
So don't delay, act now, supplies are running out
Allow if you're still alive, six to eight years to arrive
And if you follow, there may be a tomorrow
But if the offer is shun, you might as well be walkin' on the sun
Read some history and look at the context about the format of the time it was made. Look at who made the format. Look at why. It will enlighten your perspective and give you some basis to form an argument. Right now you are not making coherent arguments regarding the format. We here are seeing complaints about your LGS, in this thread's current form.
Hipster movement done by judges who didn't like how everyone played what was meta/mainstream in competitive environments.
Your underlying premise is that, for whichever demographic Wizards is targeting, these are must-haves in their entirety.
Thats because they aren't but are marketed and presented as such. You don't have a notice of three months in advance to make a smart purchase, you have hours to make that decision.
fundamentally disagree with that premise; for most players these hold no interest, a few players will want some of them, and a scant few will feel the need to own them all. Only for the latter group is that an issue, and that has more to do with their own personal inclinations and prerogatives than anything inherent to Wizard's recently adopted business model.
So you are defending secret lairs?
If you really feel pressured to choose between your girlfriend and card stock, you might want re-think the nature of your relationship... or maybe she's the one who needs to do the re-thinking.
I didnt know that my lack of existence was the deciding point of edh.
1. There isnt any multiplayer format sides edh.
2. That is true...probably in some alternative universe. When you think of the stereotypical neckbeards who are unbearable people that complain about everything and are super narcissistic, thats edh in the a nutshell.
3. The point of why a format is invented is to facilitate organized/competitive play. They make a ban list in formats so people show up to tournaments with different decks. There is zero point of a ban list in edh, especially when everyone just makes up their own rules anyway.
For a competitive play you need to follow a set of guidelines, for casual you dont. There is zero point in why edh exists, other than wotc marketing edh cards to people. For any normal human being its stupid.
The banlist is notorious in being a joke and moving at a snail's pace. The given reason is "if we started banning more cards, the banlist would get too big."
Why is it that this awful format is so popular? Never in my life can i wrap my head around why edh is so god awful. Just hearing about it makes me want to jump off a cliff. Of course, i dont say anything without any good reason so here are 3 reasons why edh is the worse way to play any tcg on the planet.
1) the idea of "politics"
i thought this was a card game played for fun, not turning on cspan. like seriously why is there bizarre rules in a casual format? its supposed to be casual, this isnt supposed to be serious. the game already has enough rules, we dont need more rules just because your a crazy person.
2) the culture
edh cultute is toxic. the players cry about everything and anything.land destruction is unfair, counterspells are unfair, cheap removal is unfair, draw spells are unfair, well guess what life is unfair. like seriously why are you playing this game if your going to complain about every aspect of it? you dont need to spend money on a card game to be miserable 24/7.
3) its a format
Why does casual play need a "format"? There isnt any stakes involved so balance isnt important. It shouldnt even have a ban list, like who cares if people play black lotus in edh? edh is a format for crybabies who want to have their cake and eat it.
so there you go, 3 reasons why edh is awful amd if you play it then your probably a sociopath. thank u and good night.
Because the format is two-faced.
Casual play is a mess, people getting drowned by contradictions of what actual casual play is. Competitive is fast and ruthless, but everyone can agree what makes competitive actually be competitive. The competitive side is coincidentally reviled by the casual side.
If it were a two-sided coin, competitive is clean and pristine, casual is very scratched up and worn.
----------------------------------------------- rxphantom asked: High fives for Secret Lair! My local game store, like most, was frankly doing too well, making too much money, and needed to be knocked down a peg.
First off, you have a valid question “Why can’t you run Secret Lair through local game stores?” Framing it as a passive-aggressive snide response adds an unnecessary tone to the post and most of the time will keep people from answering your question. When seeking answers, be polite. Quite often, as you’ll see with this answer, there are reasons you might be unaware of.
So why don’t we run Secret Lair through local game stores? The short answer is we can’t logistically, at least not without drastically raising the price and taking significantly longer to get the product to you.
Secret Lair is what is known as a “short window print to order” product. It requires having a single uniform ordering point, otherwise there’s no way to monitor the time cut-off. Also, with print to order, you want a single uniform shipping point. In addition, we want the product to get to as many players as possible (and yes, we’re working on the global reach issues) and many players do not have easy access to a local game store.
Local game stores are very important to us and we’re making more products than ever sold through local game stores, but not every product works cleanly through them, Secret Lair being a good example. It’s just logistically and financially unviable.
------------------------------------------------
I don't get why shipping these Secret Lair cards to LGS costs more; they could be included with other releases like Ikoria, for example. It sounds a bit bogus to me, but it might be true. Who knows?
Because this lets the scoot around many of the things they dislike.
These things being the following. Certain specialty products sitting on the shelf at some LGS, gathering dust, as nobody wants it really after the initial hype. Then you got buyer's guides coming out telling you if it should be bought or not, as they talk about things like the quality of the card stock or if the foiling was bad. Then there is the extra payment on the overhead for storing these products in some warehouse because they made more than was needed.
Buyer's guides can't be truthfully made if the product is always on limited-time offer, as they can't tell you if the card stock got better or if the foiling process improved, they can only make assumptions. The company doesn't need to pay a fee for warehouses if they only met the demand within that limited window. Products won't sit on some shelf unless a LGS owner bought as much as they could.
These are offers done in the same way as mobile games would do, attached image for an example. As they put it as this special thing up for a limited amount of time. It targets your impulse buying, your feeling of missing out. And the artwork is deliberately done to appeal to as many different demographics as possible, including children with an easy potshot example being <explosion sounds> that looks like it was ripped from one of the Clash Royal / Clash of Clans games.
The product's marketing and accessibility is very manipulative. Just take the upcoming one for example. So far these have been based on holidays in some manner. So the next one out in a few days is Valentine's Day themed. And its specifically launching on that day no less. So now you got to make a decision if you do have a significant other, how much do you save for the secret lair and how much do you spend on them? Five lairs can be around $150-$200. The only people who don't have to make this decision are those not currently in a relationship.
Then there is the lie that Mark Rosewater states about having to raise the price and that it would take longer. The increased cost is just a multiplier for how much cash they can grab. They sold Planeswalker Decks which is packaging + 60 cards. These lairs are just packing + 3-8 cards. At most the packaging might cost them a bit more. Yet when done in large runs, like in the hundred thousands, its cheap. Its only expensive if they made a few.
If that all disgusts you, good, you should feel disgusted.
For example. Amonkhet you can say with certainy had functioning farms, fishing, even orchards despite the fact that it was just this one place on the plane. Innistrad, Theros, and also Tarkir have also demonstrated similar things.
The uncertainty on something as simple as fishing or hunting on Ikoria means that the worldbuilding has failed in certain ways. The worldbuilding as a whole hasn't failed, but now the counterpoint would exist of "don't think about it to deeply" as its an acknowledgement that world is more shallow than it actually appears. Even among the basic land arts, its less about the humans and more about how alien it looks.
This reminds me of the contention between Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas. Fallout 3 was criticized as "big yet unrealistic" for the easiest question of "where does their food or water come from" which had seem ignored by the teams. When Obsidian took their crack at it, they included farms with chain-link fences to show that the world felt more alive in addition to other things.
It may seem unimportant, yet to a person who is using the world as escapism such details help solidify their opinions of its quality. Innistrad while a horror plane still feels like a lived in world, Ikoria is like going to a theme park that is held with bubblegum.
On the MTGNexus forums, it was pointed out that Ikoria failed in its storytelling and worldbuilding because its a new plane with only a singular set. While Dominaria worked as a single set because Dominaria for the most part is a well-established plane with a rich history, so it can get away with not having to show you as much of the very same minutiae.
Legendary Creature - Human Druid (MR)
Whenever you tap a nonland permanent for mana, add one mana of any type that permanent produced.
5GU: Look at the top five cards of your library. You may put a non-Human creature card from among them onto the battlefield. Put the rest on the bottom of your library.
2/2
This is a thread about whether the powercreep of Kinnan and if it warrants a ban.
To preface, the following, I believe that Kinnan will always be an unfun commander to play againgst even when toned down in consisteny from deckbuilding.
Kinnan's static ability is the most similar to Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary or Selvala, Heart of the Wilds as it bolsters mana production.
Kinnan's activated ability is very similar Mayael the Anima activated ability, yet without the tap symbol making it a potentially infinite sink.
Kinnan is similar to Rofellos in terms of body and cost, yet they 1 more toughness making it slightly harder to remove them.
Kinnan is similar to Mayael, Rofellos, and Selvala in that they all have access to green, yet Kinnen has access to blue.
Kinnan can make infinite colorless mana with just a Basalt Monolith, the others cannot.
Kinnan can make infinite colored mana when using a Birds of Paradise and a Freed From the Real.
Kinnan turns simple mana rocks and manadorks like an Arcane Signet or a Llanowar Elves into mini rituals.
Kinnan can outpace Rofellos in terms of mana production when using non-infinite mana.
Kinnan is viewed by the CEDH and EDH communities on Reddit as an unabashedly competitive card.
Kinnan is a very easy to abuse commander even if unintentionally for even a new player who slots in the typical manarocks and dorks.
Kinnan will create an unfun player experience when they explode early on in the first few turns even when unoptimized against similarly unoptimized decks.
And I'm certain that was the point from Wizards. As it will make their normal Secret Lair products that are direct to purchase look good in comparison to this.
The illusion is that they haven't raised the price. But if they don't also have $30 lairs, then the price is rising without an announcement having to be made as the $30 secret lairs might be discontinued.
Some were spellbound, some were hell bound
Some they fell down and some got back up
And fought back against the melt-down
And their kids were hippie chicks or hypocrites
Because fashion is smashin' the true meaning of it
So don't delay, act now, supplies are running out
Allow if you're still alive, six to eight years to arrive
And if you follow, there may be a tomorrow
But if the offer is shun, you might as well be walkin' on the sun
Thats because they aren't but are marketed and presented as such. You don't have a notice of three months in advance to make a smart purchase, you have hours to make that decision.
So you are defending secret lairs?
Casual play is a mess, people getting drowned by contradictions of what actual casual play is. Competitive is fast and ruthless, but everyone can agree what makes competitive actually be competitive. The competitive side is coincidentally reviled by the casual side.
If it were a two-sided coin, competitive is clean and pristine, casual is very scratched up and worn.
These things being the following. Certain specialty products sitting on the shelf at some LGS, gathering dust, as nobody wants it really after the initial hype. Then you got buyer's guides coming out telling you if it should be bought or not, as they talk about things like the quality of the card stock or if the foiling was bad. Then there is the extra payment on the overhead for storing these products in some warehouse because they made more than was needed.
Buyer's guides can't be truthfully made if the product is always on limited-time offer, as they can't tell you if the card stock got better or if the foiling process improved, they can only make assumptions. The company doesn't need to pay a fee for warehouses if they only met the demand within that limited window. Products won't sit on some shelf unless a LGS owner bought as much as they could.
These are offers done in the same way as mobile games would do, attached image for an example. As they put it as this special thing up for a limited amount of time. It targets your impulse buying, your feeling of missing out. And the artwork is deliberately done to appeal to as many different demographics as possible, including children with an easy potshot example being <explosion sounds> that looks like it was ripped from one of the Clash Royal / Clash of Clans games.
The product's marketing and accessibility is very manipulative. Just take the upcoming one for example. So far these have been based on holidays in some manner. So the next one out in a few days is Valentine's Day themed. And its specifically launching on that day no less. So now you got to make a decision if you do have a significant other, how much do you save for the secret lair and how much do you spend on them? Five lairs can be around $150-$200. The only people who don't have to make this decision are those not currently in a relationship.
Then there is the lie that Mark Rosewater states about having to raise the price and that it would take longer. The increased cost is just a multiplier for how much cash they can grab. They sold Planeswalker Decks which is packaging + 60 cards. These lairs are just packing + 3-8 cards. At most the packaging might cost them a bit more. Yet when done in large runs, like in the hundred thousands, its cheap. Its only expensive if they made a few.
If that all disgusts you, good, you should feel disgusted.