Banning grazer would be a good way to rein in field and 'tron'drazi ramp decks if they become oppressive: losing grazer would make them much more vulnerable to aggro without affecting their strategy at all.
It might not be enough of a nerf, but I'd try a grazer ban before a field ban.
That said, I'd ban every one drop mana dork from pioneer, so many decks lack efficient interactions for them
don't have time to find Evaros' list tonight, sry, will grab it soon. Someone also streamed a Jund list running Mayhem Devil and God-Eternal Bontu that had the advantage of boshing out 15 damage turns in the lategame if the board stalled
I saw Evaros stream a similar build last night, with Korvold, Fae-Cursed King as the payoff. I only caught the first match where he dunked on a simic stompy deck, but Korvold really brought the deck together. If you can't find the list on Evaros' streamdecker give me a shout and I'll find a timestamp for the Vod
Ajani steadfast is a really interesting pseudo-lord, but I think he's weaker than both solemn sorin and ally Gideon, due to his inability to generate tokens of his own, and the need for a token rich existing boardstate.
Triplicate spirits is one of many potential cards that just can't quite get there imo. It needs the tokens generated by a more aggressive shell to be value, but without Intangible Virtue all it does is slow down your beats.
I've seen a couple cute archangel of thune decks, but the reliability with which this list can activate avacyn, the elk purifier, makes her the choice for the hidden stockpile lists imo. Being able to flash her in is relevant, too.
the lord effects in your earlier comment all have an argument for inclusion in wider, token-heavy lists for sure, though I dislike Benalish Marshall as he gives opponents a target for spot removal
I think landing and raise are better in more aggressive shells, and i fear they would end up being inefficient ways to trigger revolt in a list like this. I looked at a lot of more traditional bw token lists before settling on this one, but the format lacks access to a lot of the kinds of token generators that make the deck what it is in modern. Ultimately, i suspect that a more aggressive midrange tokens list should be in mardu colours, with a focus on enabling young peezy. But I'm not convinced three colour manabases can reliably cast stuff like downfall without fetches, and the boros prowess deck is probably the better use of the strongest cards in such a deck.
Start finish is defo worth a try, but I was concerned that finish would end up being too slow, since we have no discard outlets. I will be trying a version of the list with two or three copies, likely instead of the bankrupts and maindeck rally for the throne. A reliable discard outlet would make start finish much more appealing.
Early drafts of the list were more walker heavy and did run heart of Kiran, but I found Solemn sorin wasn't the same bomb he was in modern, often coming down on empty boards due to the lack of 3mana spirits in the format. When I cut back on him, i cut the hearts too. And again, i think it's a more reliable threat in more aggressive shells.
The Plan: use powerful answers to slow down opponents while developing a boardstate that threathens to make many of the most powerful cards in the format ineffective. 3feri, oko, push, verdict, etc simply can't generate the same value here that they might in another matchup.
Why: having played modern BW tokens since pod was banned, I wanted to see how the archetype could play in Pioneer. I'm not confident in aggro tokens' ability to push for lethal, given the lack of efficient lord effects and flying tokens. Dreadhorde Invasion looks like a fixed Bitterblossom, but multiple copies do less, it has terrible interactions with lord effects, and it builds threats that die to fatal push, or get blocked by a lonely 1/1, so I can't justify it's inclusion. Hidden Stockpile has been a great source of value in my modern list and has very strong synergy with the best removal spell in Pioneer Fatal Push, so I decided to try and build around it.
Returning to magic after a xcouple years break, looking for some list building advice for fnm please.
The local meta includes Jund, Miracles, Urza, and Tron, with aggro like RDW and Deaths Shadow almost totally absent.
I'd love to play BW tokens, but am unsure how best to build my deck after so long out. Im also concerned that the number of urza and tron players will make the success difficult, and am considering splahing red for options like K command. All advice welcomed
It might not be enough of a nerf, but I'd try a grazer ban before a field ban.
That said, I'd ban every one drop mana dork from pioneer, so many decks lack efficient interactions for them
Triplicate spirits is one of many potential cards that just can't quite get there imo. It needs the tokens generated by a more aggressive shell to be value, but without Intangible Virtue all it does is slow down your beats.
I've seen a couple cute archangel of thune decks, but the reliability with which this list can activate avacyn, the elk purifier, makes her the choice for the hidden stockpile lists imo. Being able to flash her in is relevant, too.
the lord effects in your earlier comment all have an argument for inclusion in wider, token-heavy lists for sure, though I dislike Benalish Marshall as he gives opponents a target for spot removal
Start finish is defo worth a try, but I was concerned that finish would end up being too slow, since we have no discard outlets. I will be trying a version of the list with two or three copies, likely instead of the bankrupts and maindeck rally for the throne. A reliable discard outlet would make start finish much more appealing.
Early drafts of the list were more walker heavy and did run heart of Kiran, but I found Solemn sorin wasn't the same bomb he was in modern, often coming down on empty boards due to the lack of 3mana spirits in the format. When I cut back on him, i cut the hearts too. And again, i think it's a more reliable threat in more aggressive shells.
4 Hidden Stockpile
2 Archangel Avacyn
3 Thoughtseize
1 Despise
3 Kaya's Wrath
2 Conclave Tribunal
4 Fatal Push
2 Hero's Downfall
2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
3 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Kaya, Orzhov Usurper
1 Liliana, Dreadhorde General
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Oath of Liliana
1 Secure the Wastes
2 Bankrupt in Blood
2 Shambling Vent
3 Swamp
3 Plains
2 Castle Ardenvale
2 Castle Locthwain
2 Evolving Wilds
4 Fabled Passage
4 Godless Shrine
4 Isolated Chapel
2 Duress
2 Noxious Grasp
2 Pithing Needle
2 Rally for the Throne
2 Rest in Peace
2 Sundering Growth
1 Kaya's Wrath
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Liliana, Dreadhorde General
The Plan: use powerful answers to slow down opponents while developing a boardstate that threathens to make many of the most powerful cards in the format ineffective. 3feri, oko, push, verdict, etc simply can't generate the same value here that they might in another matchup.
Why: having played modern BW tokens since pod was banned, I wanted to see how the archetype could play in Pioneer. I'm not confident in aggro tokens' ability to push for lethal, given the lack of efficient lord effects and flying tokens. Dreadhorde Invasion looks like a fixed Bitterblossom, but multiple copies do less, it has terrible interactions with lord effects, and it builds threats that die to fatal push, or get blocked by a lonely 1/1, so I can't justify it's inclusion. Hidden Stockpile has been a great source of value in my modern list and has very strong synergy with the best removal spell in Pioneer Fatal Push, so I decided to try and build around it.
I'll be playing this list for the next month, and will report back. I doubt Bankrupt in Blood will make the cut, but the art is great. Walking Ballista and Field of the Dead have been major threats so far, Damping Sphere might have to come into the board.
I'm very interested to hear how other token players are fairing in Pioneer
The local meta includes Jund, Miracles, Urza, and Tron, with aggro like RDW and Deaths Shadow almost totally absent.
I'd love to play BW tokens, but am unsure how best to build my deck after so long out. Im also concerned that the number of urza and tron players will make the success difficult, and am considering splahing red for options like K command. All advice welcomed