I don't hate the Tom case as much as I thought I would given my prior TR of him, so I'm not opposed to lunching him, but I don't think he's our best wagon
@Flarg
well my opinion is of one, where I don't believe mafia shot Grape
or maybe they did and this was all planned out
anyways, why did you shoot Grape?
also your cell block has Rhand and Vaimes in it, so eew
next you are gunna say that because you are not dead, that they are town
its almost as bad as Sloth's argument for me and Tubba being town. so please dont
My cell had consensus he was Scum from my PoE pool basically, whereas we didn't agree on anyone else.
Yesterday was TvT on the major wagons (at least I think, but if Zion is Scum, add another told-ya-so to my list) so I'm pretty sus of most of the players that just let it happpen.
Jesus Christ, Flarg, that's not how that works.
Talk to me about why you think Zion is now Town; I want to hear your (sober) process on this.
Lack of counterwagon, general thread stall, and lack of progression/lack of desire for a CFD in general leads me to think Scum were content with the thread in the way it was. Maybe they have giant balls but I feel strongly enough about it to reverse my read.
I like Sloth's process on me, I don't like ZDS's and weirdly I feel like he's using his push on me to remain silent on most of the game which he missed out D1 on. I am biased and OMGUS is real though, so take that with a grain of salt.
Does he actually believe theres such a thing as objectively wolfy and meta isnt real?
Would he actually consider what he did yesterday "leading a wagon on zionite"?
We ironically need some flarg meta pretty badly here gimme your opinions
spoiler alert Tom when I'm mafia I'll say what's convenient
"Flarg believes meta isn't real" is the best tabloid headline of the game. I don't believe it's not real, I believe it's not useful without other factors. To whomever asked earlier, I weigh it around tone reads, but a bit more. Good enough to perk your ears up or get a lean from null, generally pretty bad for a lynch.
Anyway, this is all irrelevant, I shot Grape. Cell can more-or-less confirm it, I never said "I'm gonna shoot Grape" but I got pretttttty close.
Can you guys move onto something useful now so I can get my motivation for playing back? I'm gonna go actually do the thing I promised and read back on some of the cases and see where I fall on that.
I made a point to state it was null because people kept incorrectly stating it was town, which they kept doing because I was attacking the case. I don't understand what's difficult to get about that. Of course I'm going to attack a baseless case when I'm leading a wagon on the other guy. KJ was super hard to read because he was erratic and hyper, which is both why the case on him was bad and why I nulled him - everything he did was NAI.
I feel like you mentioning I was shielded by mafia theory is conceding something major. Your case is that I'm so versed in mafia theory that I can use it to shield everything I do as Scum, yet so oblivious that I don't see that the townreads on me are evaporating for it? It relies on me both being brilliant and incredibly stupid at the same time. The obvious, simple answer is that I kept pushing despite having townreads go away on me because I genuinely believed in what I was pushing and didn't give a ***** about the reads, because my job is to lynch Scum, not worry about how townread I am.
I was second on Zion, at least second of anyone who held their vote on him. Go read back.
1) You didn't defend Killjoy. You didn't try to save him. Why attack the theory behind a case if you are not going to defend the affected player? Did you do it purely out of principle?
Moreover you didn't push the competing wagon that you were supposedly leading (by the way why aren't you responding to that?). In fact before that you plainly said you were ready to jump on a non-Zionite wagon.
2) That's not my point, but maybe I wasn't clear. You loving mafia theory like you could put a ring on it doesn't mean you are well versed in it, at least depending on how you define "well versed". You certainly have a lot of ideas and beliefs running in your mind about how mafia should be played and how players should be attacked, rigid as these ideas may be. That doesn't make you brilliant or stupid, it only means you enjoy the theoretical side of mafia.
My point is that by attacking the theory behind the case you did not actually put your neck out there. You made reasonable posts anybody could have written regardless of alignment, and despite how many of these posts there were you had no impact on the KJ wagon.
(To have such an impact you would have had to either defend KJ or push an alternative, and you did neither, unless the CFD thing was your idea of an alternative, and even then you did little to push it.)
3) Whatever, I'm not attacking you over your positioning on the Zionite wagon anyway. The important thing is you were far from the first to find Zionite scummy.
I feel like a broken record at this point - I didn't want to defend him because I had him at null. I attacked the theory because I think lynching players off of meta is both inaccurate and hard to work off of on D2. (and note how little we got in reads from it - who's being attacked NOW for KJ's mislynch?) I didn't push harder on Zion because he didn't do anything more I wanted to add to the case and I wanted to see a counterwagon form for wagon analysis. You can argue I should've rah-rah'd and restated stuff, but eh, I don't like spamming the thread like that.
Your point is that making reasonable posts makes me scum? And that doing it- while players are attacking me for it and renouncing their townreads- isn't sticking my neck out? Yeah, it didn't make an impact, it didn't make an impact because of hardheadedness and ego, not because I didn't try. I led the horses to water, but it's not my fault they didn't drink.
You're right, you're just discrediting me despite the fact that I was one of the first to do something and put a vote down.
I made a point to state it was null because people kept incorrectly stating it was town, which they kept doing because I was attacking the case. I don't understand what's difficult to get about that. Of course I'm going to attack a baseless case when I'm leading a wagon on the other guy. KJ was super hard to read because he was erratic and hyper, which is both why the case on him was bad and why I nulled him - everything he did was NAI.
I feel like you mentioning I was shielded by mafia theory is conceding something major. Your case is that I'm so versed in mafia theory that I can use it to shield everything I do as Scum, yet so oblivious that I don't see that the townreads on me are evaporating for it? It relies on me both being brilliant and incredibly stupid at the same time. The obvious, simple answer is that I kept pushing despite having townreads go away on me because I genuinely believed in what I was pushing and didn't give a ***** about the reads, because my job is to lynch Scum, not worry about how townread I am.
I was second on Zion, at least second of anyone who held their vote on him. Go read back.
@Flarg
evaluate ZDS's case when you are in a better state of mind
talk to me about my cellmates, because Sloth is probably the towniest player in this game
and Tubba seems pretty pure
Jack and Tom are the towniest players in this game.
I'll reevaluate, later, sure, I'll give you that promise.
How does Tubba seem pure? He's barely posted and what he has posted hasn't moved the needle at all?
I'm drunk and in no state to make serious posts but honestly, **** all of you if you're going to lynch me after I was one of the few people right about the meta case on KJ being horse*****.
Sure, his claim threw me off, but like... I was right. If you want to lynch me go ahead and do it and I can stop caring about this site where people have overblown egos (you know who you are) and ignore all of the derps who blindly sheeped on "KJ IS WEIRD LUL" or didn't post much at all.
I was right too? lmao, the case was blown out of proportion sure, but like, that is no reason to shade everyone
there really isnt a need for this post, it doesnt help us read you at all, and most of us will just push you harder
IDK how you like him, and then are just like, "Mechanically he is probably a wolf now", because he claims a role which overall is pretty NAI
if someone is townie on a macro level, then no micro reasons should change that, is my personal opinion on the matter
ignore all of the derps who blindly sheeped
I mean that's something we can work on? like town can be wrong
overblown ego is probably Tom, but that's something most of us already know
either way, attack the post not the player
I won't say anything else on the matter
Tom may have been wrong, but he was a driving force in creating a lynch, when last game where no lynched after a 3 week day 1
I know Tom can fake a case as a wolf, which is why I am still kinda hesitant, but like that push was not shallow at all, and wolf!Tom is probably the only one in this game that I think could go that hard in the paint
the worst thing coming out of Tom is probably his chainsaw onto me, which is disgusting honestly, but anyways vote: Flarg
Is that where the bar is site on this site? His case was bad and wrong, but at least he lynched someone???
Really????
stop shading this site, I respect the players here, even the ones that I butt heads with
Tom pushed a case, he was wrong, now we evaluate him, and the people that were on the train
its all we can do at this point
I also didn't say his case was bad, just kinda reachy? but town!Tom definitely believed his case here
wolf!Tom goes hard in the paint for what, one mislynch??? on day 1? lmao
and town are wrong all the time, its called being uninformed, its the context of everything that matters, not just, "Well he lynched a town, so he is a wolf"
I think I've said this before but I actually have Tom at hard town - his tone was genuine. If he's Scum it's a masterful fake and I applaud a job well done.
I'm just incredulous at "we should be thankful he drove a lynch! last time we NLed after 3 weeks". What that tells me is that the game where you NLed after 3 weeks, Town dropped the ball badly by doing nothing. Sure, something here is better than literally nothing, but it doesn't deserve kudos.
My PoE scumpool from last night for anyone that cares:
Grape
YWF
GJ
Sloth
Tubba
KCC
ZDS
My cellmates had some very different opinions about some of these players, and Grape is obviously Town now, but if it helps here you go. Yesterday was TvT on the major wagons (at least I think, but if Zion is Scum, add another told-ya-so to my list) so I'm pretty sus of most of the players that just let it happpen.
I'm drunk and in no state to make serious posts but honestly, **** all of you if you're going to lynch me after I was one of the few people right about the meta case on KJ being horse*****.
Sure, his claim threw me off, but like... I was right. If you want to lynch me go ahead and do it and I can stop caring about this site where people have overblown egos (you know who you are) and ignore all of the derps who blindly sheeped on "KJ IS WEIRD LUL" or didn't post much at all.
I was right too? lmao, the case was blown out of proportion sure, but like, that is no reason to shade everyone
there really isnt a need for this post, it doesnt help us read you at all, and most of us will just push you harder
IDK how you like him, and then are just like, "Mechanically he is probably a wolf now", because he claims a role which overall is pretty NAI
if someone is townie on a macro level, then no micro reasons should change that, is my personal opinion on the matter
ignore all of the derps who blindly sheeped
I mean that's something we can work on? like town can be wrong
overblown ego is probably Tom, but that's something most of us already know
either way, attack the post not the player
I won't say anything else on the matter
Tom may have been wrong, but he was a driving force in creating a lynch, when last game where no lynched after a 3 week day 1
I know Tom can fake a case as a wolf, which is why I am still kinda hesitant, but like that push was not shallow at all, and wolf!Tom is probably the only one in this game that I think could go that hard in the paint
the worst thing coming out of Tom is probably his chainsaw onto me, which is disgusting honestly, but anyways vote: Flarg
Is that where the bar is site on this site? His case was bad and wrong, but at least he lynched someone???
Eventually FlargBlarg started coming around to the idea of both Zionite and Killjoy being town (#995, #1103), something I would be perfectly fine with (I came to the same conclusion myself) if he didn't take for-*******-ever to actually unvote. As a results he starts pushing for a CFD lynch on a low poster (#995, #1011, #1107, #1154).
It's an idea he started arguing from a theory perspective back in #520, so if anything he was being consistent — and if he was planning all along to get into that situation, which he very well may have been, then I have to give my respects to the guy. Now from my own perspective, I don't follow his point and think CFDs on inactives are especially horrible on Day 1. These lynches provide extremely little information (we do get a flip, but by definition low posters are also low on interactions so it's really not all that helpful) and are likely to result in Day 2 mostly being a repeat of Day 1. But we are not here to argue mafia theory, and no matter how much we think apart I would have been forced to agree to disagree if FlargBlarg had actually pushed his own idea. He didn't. Just like when he wished for a counterwagon and made no effort to create one, you can see him push platonically for a CFD lynch without actually picking a target and therefore without taking any risk. That's Exhibit #4 of FlargBlarg avoiding confrontation.
Also, remember when Flarg voted Zionite for wanting to look for scum in the inactives, at a time when there were many more of them (and therefore better odds of them containing scum)? I remember.
All of that is why I think FlargBlarg is scum until given very good reasons to think otherwise. He's been careful to a point that far exceeds mere playstyle, repeatedly avoided taking any stance that could put him in the spotlight. The couple times he did take a controversial stance, he always argued his case from the general perspective of mafia theory, an easy way out since he could have made basically the same posts outside of a game and they technically imply nothing about him. When these are the only opinions a player is willing to push in front of adversity, you know something is extremely wrong.
So do your part: either vote FlargBlarg, or if you think he's town, present your arguments. Don't stand there not committing. Don't be a FlargBlarg.
Ah yes, I remember how repeatedly telling Tom his case was bad and it should be ignored was "putting myself out of the spotlight". That definitely didn't take the overwhelming townlean on me away. The Town was right and KJ was clearly scum and I was clearly shortsighted for refusing to lynch him for being different.
Like do you have any self awareness of the fact that you were GONE all of D1? And I stayed out of the spotlight? Not any of the low posters? Even if you were gone for legit reasons, you want to tell me the people who barely posted in this thread *didn't* stay out of the spotlight?
I just dont see a world in where that's Rodemy's claim if he's scum, given the earlier soft.
I don't hate the Tom case as much as I thought I would given my prior TR of him, so I'm not opposed to lunching him, but I don't think he's our best wagon
remember the part where I said I lived in seattle
it's been... pretty bad around here because of coronavirus stuff
I'm gonna have to reevaluate whether I have the mental bandwidth to play, which will take some time, so sorry. Consider me V/LA for the moment
My cell had consensus he was Scum from my PoE pool basically, whereas we didn't agree on anyone else.
Lack of counterwagon, general thread stall, and lack of progression/lack of desire for a CFD in general leads me to think Scum were content with the thread in the way it was. Maybe they have giant balls but I feel strongly enough about it to reverse my read.
I like Sloth's process on me, I don't like ZDS's and weirdly I feel like he's using his push on me to remain silent on most of the game which he missed out D1 on. I am biased and OMGUS is real though, so take that with a grain of salt.
spoiler alert Tom when I'm mafia I'll say what's convenient
"Flarg believes meta isn't real" is the best tabloid headline of the game. I don't believe it's not real, I believe it's not useful without other factors. To whomever asked earlier, I weigh it around tone reads, but a bit more. Good enough to perk your ears up or get a lean from null, generally pretty bad for a lynch.
Anyway, this is all irrelevant, I shot Grape. Cell can more-or-less confirm it, I never said "I'm gonna shoot Grape" but I got pretttttty close.
Can you guys move onto something useful now so I can get my motivation for playing back? I'm gonna go actually do the thing I promised and read back on some of the cases and see where I fall on that.
I never said I had no read on you?
I feel like a broken record at this point - I didn't want to defend him because I had him at null. I attacked the theory because I think lynching players off of meta is both inaccurate and hard to work off of on D2. (and note how little we got in reads from it - who's being attacked NOW for KJ's mislynch?) I didn't push harder on Zion because he didn't do anything more I wanted to add to the case and I wanted to see a counterwagon form for wagon analysis. You can argue I should've rah-rah'd and restated stuff, but eh, I don't like spamming the thread like that.
Your point is that making reasonable posts makes me scum? And that doing it- while players are attacking me for it and renouncing their townreads- isn't sticking my neck out? Yeah, it didn't make an impact, it didn't make an impact because of hardheadedness and ego, not because I didn't try. I led the horses to water, but it's not my fault they didn't drink.
You're right, you're just discrediting me despite the fact that I was one of the first to do something and put a vote down.
I feel like you mentioning I was shielded by mafia theory is conceding something major. Your case is that I'm so versed in mafia theory that I can use it to shield everything I do as Scum, yet so oblivious that I don't see that the townreads on me are evaporating for it? It relies on me both being brilliant and incredibly stupid at the same time. The obvious, simple answer is that I kept pushing despite having townreads go away on me because I genuinely believed in what I was pushing and didn't give a ***** about the reads, because my job is to lynch Scum, not worry about how townread I am.
I was second on Zion, at least second of anyone who held their vote on him. Go read back.
Jack and Tom are the towniest players in this game.
I'll reevaluate, later, sure, I'll give you that promise.
How does Tubba seem pure? He's barely posted and what he has posted hasn't moved the needle at all?
I think I've said this before but I actually have Tom at hard town - his tone was genuine. If he's Scum it's a masterful fake and I applaud a job well done.
I'm just incredulous at "we should be thankful he drove a lynch! last time we NLed after 3 weeks". What that tells me is that the game where you NLed after 3 weeks, Town dropped the ball badly by doing nothing. Sure, something here is better than literally nothing, but it doesn't deserve kudos.
Grape
YWF
GJ
Sloth
Tubba
KCC
ZDS
My cellmates had some very different opinions about some of these players, and Grape is obviously Town now, but if it helps here you go. Yesterday was TvT on the major wagons (at least I think, but if Zion is Scum, add another told-ya-so to my list) so I'm pretty sus of most of the players that just let it happpen.
Is that where the bar is site on this site? His case was bad and wrong, but at least he lynched someone???
Really????
Ah yes, I remember how repeatedly telling Tom his case was bad and it should be ignored was "putting myself out of the spotlight". That definitely didn't take the overwhelming townlean on me away. The Town was right and KJ was clearly scum and I was clearly shortsighted for refusing to lynch him for being different.
Like do you have any self awareness of the fact that you were GONE all of D1? And I stayed out of the spotlight? Not any of the low posters? Even if you were gone for legit reasons, you want to tell me the people who barely posted in this thread *didn't* stay out of the spotlight?