Protean Hulk is a very good reason to draft green. He is amazing with any number of cards to interact with him. God forbid you have an Eternal Witness, Body Double, or Genesis.
If you know of a better three drop, I'm all ears. Kestral at least serves some sort of a purpose. I tried Riftwatcher but she didn't like that it died in a few turns.
The liege might be ok, haven't decided yet, she like that the whole deck flies.
I see a lot of discussion of first picks but I seem to struggle in middle round. Has anone ever broken down every pack they've been handed in an entire draft? Has anyone tried to classify an entire cube by tiered power levels of cards?
I might be Cube Drafting with some friends tonight. If I do I'll keep track of the content of the packs and my picks, with justifications for each pick. If I have enough time of course.
Just off the top of my head, this format has Wrath of God, Damnation, Firespout, Sulfurous Blast, Pyroclasm, and Crovax (Psuedo Wrath here) which all see play in various decks.
Once again, I know what cards I might play against. The only cards that you listed that I'm worried about are Firespout and Pyroclasm, with Firespout being the only one that sees play. I've figured out how to deal with it, so it's not an issue any more.
And I know that "various" decks play cards like these. For example, Mono White Control would play Wrath and Crovax as well as life gain. Clearly it's a match that I can't win barring a God draw. I'm not worried about it because I will never play against it.
With a manabase of 14 lands and relying heavily on a card like Heritage Druid you are a sitting duck vs....let me think, just about every deck in the format.
To say that you don't worry about Wrath effects is a bit ignorant I would say. Although to be fair you if you haven't won by the time your opponent is able to cast Crovax, then you probably can't win the game anyway.
Having said this, I do like the idea behind the deck and with a bit of tweaking you might be onto something.
Such a pity Intruder Alarm has not been reprinted, as that would've been really awesome in this deck.
This is the kind of post that I like to see. Constructive Criticism. This post touches on one of the other weaknesses of the deck that I was worrried about. Heritage Druid is pretty much essential for me to "combo off," without her all I can do is mass elfs and attack (which still often kills). Against decks like RDW, which I assume would be my worst matchup, and Faeries with Lash Out and Terror respectively. Now, this is why I run 4 Summoner's Pact, so I can fetch multiple copies of Heritage Druid when I'm afraid that one might die.
And yes, Intruder Alarm would be pretty sick in this deck.
~
Now, in defense of my ignoring Wrath and Damnation, and to a lesser extent Pyroclasm, Sulfurous Blast, Austere Command, Hurley Burly, whatever.. Let's look at the stickied competative threads:
Reveillark - Cryptic Command, 2-3 Wrath, Crovax in the sb
RDW - Incinerate, Flame Javelin
GB Elves - Terror
UB Faeries - Terror, Cryptic Command
Quick n' Toast - Firespout, Cryptic Command, Slaughter Pact
Reveillark is the only deck that plays Wrath, usually as a 2-3 off main. Most of the lists I've seen don't even have additional ones in the board. Crovax is too slow to effect me. Even with a Mind Stone. Post board I just bring in Squall Lines and take out Coat of Arms so I can just play it for a lot in response to them tapping out, or in response to their sweeper. I also have Pact of Negation against Wrath and Guttoral Response against Rune Snag or Cryptic Command.
RDW has removal for my Heritage Druid, and not much else. They can't race me effectively when I have 4 Essence Warden main, and they have no real outs to Coat of Arms.
GB Elves had Terror and Thoughtseize I guess, neither of which I'm particularly afraid of.
UB Faeries is one of the decks best matchups. They don't have enough counters for all of my creatures, and I don't even need to do anything special to win. Just drop 3-4 creatures early and they can't really stop it. Squall Line, Vexing Shuhser, and Guttoral Response from the board make this matchuo even easier.
Q 'n T seems like a pretty iffy mathcup that I haven't tested or thought about much. They have Firespout which I can answer with Wrap in Vigor. They have Cryptic Command that I can answer with Guttoral Responses. I can get around their countermagic with Squall Line. Plus they can't Slaughter Pact my Heritage Druid without losing or tapping out in their upkeep. Seems good.
If you see any errors in my logic let me know. I'm interested in listening if you have something useful to say.
Wrap in Vigor is a good idea, seems like it counters Firespout entirely.
And I'm not interested in the official Elf-Ball thread, it's boring. I want to innovate. It's gotten to the point that I will always top 4 at any local tournament with a Tier one deck, so I'm trying to create and tune my own decks to compete with. This is one of them.
Now, I fail to see how Elvish Promenade is "win more". Well, I understand how it can be win more, but it's not in this deck. It's pretty much strictly better than Hunting Triad, aside from the rare occasions when I feel the need to Giant Growth something.
Also, I know that 14 lands is a very low number. I started with 22, and kept cutting them to increase consistency and decrease mana flood. I feel that 14-16 is the right number, probably cutting Boreal Druids for extra land as I see fit. Basically, 2 land is the right number for me, and then a third when I draw a ton of cards on turn 3-4. Any more is a dead draw.
Thanks for the replies though, especially the one about Wrap in Vigor, I never would have thought of that on my own.
I apologize in advance if this post is a bit rambling. I'm tired and I have to use the bathroom, so I'm pretty much writing things down as they pop into my head.
~
Hi, recently I took up an interest in creating a deck to abuse the interaction between Heritage Druid and Nettle Sentinel to create absurd amounts of mana. Here is what I came up with, based largely on the old elf grenade decks that saw moderate success:
A lot of the card choices are pretty straight-forward. You want to get a Heritage Druid and two other elves in play by Turn 3, with an Elvish Promenade or some kind of draw spell in hand. Summoner's Pact is really amazing in this deck because it gets you a Nettle Sentinel, a Heritage Druid, a Regal Force, or even a Vexing Shusher when you need it.
So, eventually you get massive amounts of elves by turns three or four, or you draw most of your deck, netting in a Coat of Arms, which is almost always lethal. Game two, I usually board the Coat of Arms out in favor of Squall Lines. People usually bring in artifact hate, and Squall Line is equally effective, killing them while you stay alive thanks to Essence Wardens gaining tons of life. I like Squall Line so much, that I even had it main deck for a while, but moved them to the board since the are bad in the aggro matchup.
If you have any questions about how the deck works, just ask.
~
Now, for the problems at hand. This deck has an amazing matchup against Faeries and all forms of midrange (barring a Firespout). It struggles against red decks with cheap removal for Heritage Druid, such as Mogg Fanatic and Lash Out, as well as control decks with Cryptic Command and Wrath effects.
I'm not really worried about the Wrath effects, because hardly any decks play them.. I'm really worried about Firespout though, I've been racking my brain trying to think of an answer, and I've been coming up blank.. I'm also not sure on the sideboard.. I don't think I'd need Krosan Grips for anything except for Pithing Needle and Teferi's Moat, neither of which sees play. Am I missing something?
So any suggestions? Any critiques on the deck in general? It's a ton of fun, and surprisingly competative. I suggest you give it a try!
Heap Doll is actually a very efficient hate card against Persist and Retrace. Might be worth consideration if we're tempted to hate draft the Inquisitor's Snare.
That said, I'm going to hold off on voting on this for a little while, although I'm fine with any of the aforementioned picks.
Go us!
They are the two most playable, and have decent bodies and effects compared to their mana costs, unlike almost all of the other lieges.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/veepstakes
Stillmoon Cavalier is very good, might be something to consider.
I might be Cube Drafting with some friends tonight. If I do I'll keep track of the content of the packs and my picks, with justifications for each pick. If I have enough time of course.
I'm aware of what cards are in the standard format. You basically told me what I wrote in the thread topic, thank you so much...
Once again, I know what cards I might play against. The only cards that you listed that I'm worried about are Firespout and Pyroclasm, with Firespout being the only one that sees play. I've figured out how to deal with it, so it's not an issue any more.
And I know that "various" decks play cards like these. For example, Mono White Control would play Wrath and Crovax as well as life gain. Clearly it's a match that I can't win barring a God draw. I'm not worried about it because I will never play against it.
This is the kind of post that I like to see. Constructive Criticism. This post touches on one of the other weaknesses of the deck that I was worrried about. Heritage Druid is pretty much essential for me to "combo off," without her all I can do is mass elfs and attack (which still often kills). Against decks like RDW, which I assume would be my worst matchup, and Faeries with Lash Out and Terror respectively. Now, this is why I run 4 Summoner's Pact, so I can fetch multiple copies of Heritage Druid when I'm afraid that one might die.
And yes, Intruder Alarm would be pretty sick in this deck.
~
Now, in defense of my ignoring Wrath and Damnation, and to a lesser extent Pyroclasm, Sulfurous Blast, Austere Command, Hurley Burly, whatever.. Let's look at the stickied competative threads:
Reveillark - Cryptic Command, 2-3 Wrath, Crovax in the sb
RDW - Incinerate, Flame Javelin
GB Elves - Terror
UB Faeries - Terror, Cryptic Command
Quick n' Toast - Firespout, Cryptic Command, Slaughter Pact
Reveillark is the only deck that plays Wrath, usually as a 2-3 off main. Most of the lists I've seen don't even have additional ones in the board. Crovax is too slow to effect me. Even with a Mind Stone. Post board I just bring in Squall Lines and take out Coat of Arms so I can just play it for a lot in response to them tapping out, or in response to their sweeper. I also have Pact of Negation against Wrath and Guttoral Response against Rune Snag or Cryptic Command.
RDW has removal for my Heritage Druid, and not much else. They can't race me effectively when I have 4 Essence Warden main, and they have no real outs to Coat of Arms.
GB Elves had Terror and Thoughtseize I guess, neither of which I'm particularly afraid of.
UB Faeries is one of the decks best matchups. They don't have enough counters for all of my creatures, and I don't even need to do anything special to win. Just drop 3-4 creatures early and they can't really stop it. Squall Line, Vexing Shuhser, and Guttoral Response from the board make this matchuo even easier.
Q 'n T seems like a pretty iffy mathcup that I haven't tested or thought about much. They have Firespout which I can answer with Wrap in Vigor. They have Cryptic Command that I can answer with Guttoral Responses. I can get around their countermagic with Squall Line. Plus they can't Slaughter Pact my Heritage Druid without losing or tapping out in their upkeep. Seems good.
If you see any errors in my logic let me know. I'm interested in listening if you have something useful to say.
And I'm not interested in the official Elf-Ball thread, it's boring. I want to innovate. It's gotten to the point that I will always top 4 at any local tournament with a Tier one deck, so I'm trying to create and tune my own decks to compete with. This is one of them.
Now, I fail to see how Elvish Promenade is "win more". Well, I understand how it can be win more, but it's not in this deck. It's pretty much strictly better than Hunting Triad, aside from the rare occasions when I feel the need to Giant Growth something.
Also, I know that 14 lands is a very low number. I started with 22, and kept cutting them to increase consistency and decrease mana flood. I feel that 14-16 is the right number, probably cutting Boreal Druids for extra land as I see fit. Basically, 2 land is the right number for me, and then a third when I draw a ton of cards on turn 3-4. Any more is a dead draw.
Thanks for the replies though, especially the one about Wrap in Vigor, I never would have thought of that on my own.
~
Hi, recently I took up an interest in creating a deck to abuse the interaction between Heritage Druid and Nettle Sentinel to create absurd amounts of mana. Here is what I came up with, based largely on the old elf grenade decks that saw moderate success:
4x Gemstone Mine
3x Yavimaya Coast
4x Heritage Druid
4x Nettle Sentinel
4x Essence Warden
4x Llanowar Elves
4x Boreal Druid
3x Regal Force
4x Elvish Promenade
2x Hunting Triad
4x Coat of Arms
4x Manamorphose
4x Summoner's Pact
4x Distant Melody
4x Guttural Response
2x Vexing Shusher
2x Pact of Negation
4x Squall Line
3x Roar of the Crowd
A lot of the card choices are pretty straight-forward. You want to get a Heritage Druid and two other elves in play by Turn 3, with an Elvish Promenade or some kind of draw spell in hand. Summoner's Pact is really amazing in this deck because it gets you a Nettle Sentinel, a Heritage Druid, a Regal Force, or even a Vexing Shusher when you need it.
So, eventually you get massive amounts of elves by turns three or four, or you draw most of your deck, netting in a Coat of Arms, which is almost always lethal. Game two, I usually board the Coat of Arms out in favor of Squall Lines. People usually bring in artifact hate, and Squall Line is equally effective, killing them while you stay alive thanks to Essence Wardens gaining tons of life. I like Squall Line so much, that I even had it main deck for a while, but moved them to the board since the are bad in the aggro matchup.
If you have any questions about how the deck works, just ask.
~
Now, for the problems at hand. This deck has an amazing matchup against Faeries and all forms of midrange (barring a Firespout). It struggles against red decks with cheap removal for Heritage Druid, such as Mogg Fanatic and Lash Out, as well as control decks with Cryptic Command and Wrath effects.
I'm not really worried about the Wrath effects, because hardly any decks play them.. I'm really worried about Firespout though, I've been racking my brain trying to think of an answer, and I've been coming up blank.. I'm also not sure on the sideboard.. I don't think I'd need Krosan Grips for anything except for Pithing Needle and Teferi's Moat, neither of which sees play. Am I missing something?
So any suggestions? Any critiques on the deck in general? It's a ton of fun, and surprisingly competative. I suggest you give it a try!
That said, I'm going to hold off on voting on this for a little while, although I'm fine with any of the aforementioned picks.