I would love it if you updated the primer. It looks pretty dated. I'm planning to run this deck at this weekend's RPTQ and could use any help I can get. I think the biggest questions I have are around sideboarding.
Can anyone share or link me to good sideboarding info for GB Tron?
I've been playing this at local tournaments ... have done ye olde 4-0-1 a couple of times now. I've been trying to get more testing in but still unsure what the right couple of "flex" slots should be in the deck ... Here's what I like as the shell:
I've been playing this at local tournaments ... have done ye olde 4-0-1 a couple of times now. I've been trying to get more testing in but still unsure what the right couple of "flex" slots should be in the deck ... Here's what I like as the shell:
Sleeving this back up to try out the new cyclers. I've got a pretty diverse modern metagame at my local shop, usually 30+ show up for FNM and Monday magic. Will report back once I've played some matches!
I'll be going with 4x of the new 1 mana cyclers and 2x of the archfiend. Never dropping spirit guide, the extra speed is awesome. Will try 18 lands with the 4 groves.
Hey guys, longtime pilot and lurker here. I had not played EDH for several months, and last night someone wanted to get rekt so I pulled this list out. I realized I have neglected to add Paradox Engine to my deck. (yuk).
Trying to figure out what the weakest cards are to try out some of the other things ya'll have been doing also.
Right now, top of my list is Burnished Hart ... I just don't like paying 6 mana for 2 lands. Wondering what the rest of you think is the lowest hanging fruit?
I've been playing burn a long time, and my teamate has been playing it even longer than me. The bottom line is that brutality is a beating against us. Maindecking commands is just correct in general, the card is extremely powerful and enables more T3 wins. But if you're relying on it to save you from an on-time brutality I think you're going to be a very sad panda. You have to jam your gameplan ... the more lightning bolts the better.
On the topic of sideboarding things like angel's grace ... I agree with folks saying boarding the white / black leylines is just bad. You really need as many cards as possible that further your gameplan on top of whatever utility they provide. Cards that counter other strategies while still dealing damage are superb (revelry / deflecting palm) as well as cards that cantrip (relic, hallowed moonlight). Things like leylines just water down your deck to the point where you need to draw bolt to win and you get a leyline.
Trying this deck out and had a few questions for you all ...
1) What's the point of playing talisman main? Blood moon insulation? More T3 TKS?
2) It seems like 5 mana dorks and 23 lands is the "optimal" amount of mana sources (ignoring talismans) is that right?
3) Some lists seem to shave the third yavimaya coasts for a utility land (ghost quarter, sea gate wreckage, etc) is that essentially free?
4) Eleder Deep-Fiend over the 4th drowner seems like it could be pretty badass ... or just having access to a 5th big fat fatty thing in general. How has EDF worked and what other cards have you all found success with?
The plan is to build up a huge Conflag from out hand average of 5-6 damage then flash it back the following turn for lethal. Also casting all our durdlely dudes is very possible with Crypt.
So you said burning inquiry over neonate then didn't include it in your proposed list?
Extractor demon is a spicy one ... I like the idea of using it with crypt, I played that deck in standard briefly when it was legal. But I wonder if the tempo loss from crypt coming in tapped is just too costly for modern. I don't play the deck in tournaments (I have playtested it a lot), just lurking and speculating.
Seeing Walking Ballista performance not only this weekend, but some weeks before, i think i'll swap my 2 MD copies of Spellskite for it .
I've been running it in Gb tron in place of a 3rd Fatal Push and the 3rd Collective Brutality. It really has performed amazingly. Late game it can close the game on its own, early game it can provide the critical interaction we need against infect, it's findable with Stirrings, it's gettable with Sanctum of Ugin and it triggers it. I'm considering going mono-green for a couple weeks to see how well it performs compared to the G r/b/w builds. No more painlands, potential taplands, and Ghost Quarter is a lot worse against us.
Would you mind sharing your list? I'm putting together GB tron considering playing it at states this weekend ... I have played GR and GW but never GB before. Explanation of non-standard choices would be super helpful too if you have the time!
I'm strongly considering running burn for states ... I have been playing Eldrazi Tron for a while but after a hot start at the Indi open, I had a rough go of it losing to a bunch of random decks. Given that people could show up to states will all kinds of whacky, burn seems like a nice place to be.
Since there might be lifegain, I think I would want to run the commands in the main. Here's the list I'm considering ... is anyone running something similar? It seems odd to run the commands w/o nacatl but I just can't get behind a non-haste creature that dies to every 1 mana removal in the format.
Non-creature spells:
1 All is Dust
3 Dismember
4 Expedition Map
1 Batterskull
4 Chalice of the Void
So that leaves 6 flex slots, two of them needs to be lands as you still want to run 24. These could be Sanctum, Cavern of Souls, Gemstone Caverns or a 4th GQ.
I personally want 2 cards that can gain me life main deck as a way to mitigate Dismember and help against many other situations. I'm trying out 1 Basilisk Collar because I'm also running 4 Ballistas (if you aren't running any Ballistas then Collar becomes worse). You also need a big finisher like either Ulamog or Karn which you should at least run 1 of. The remaining two cards could either be 2 Warping Wail if you want an extra edge against small creature decks or Valakut decks. Warping Wail becomes worse in a meta filled with control and Eldrazi though, so you have to consider that as well (Spatial Contortion could also be an option as additional removal). 2 Mind Stone is another thing to consider. Best in situations when you aren't playing the Tron game, which happens often. A second All is Dust is another option, but I would run it as it doesn't seem particularly fantastic in the current meta at the moment.
I would argue the 3rd Endbringer and the 4th Chalice are flex slots also. A friend of mine who has piloted the deck for a long time swears by 3 Chalice main and he only runs two endbringers. I have had games where I drew two endbringers and the second was dead in my hand so I'm confident in going down to 2.
As far as your other choices, I think warping wail deserves a spot in the 75. I would also run Ulamog over Karn in the main (maybe play karn out of the board or in another MD slot) I also think warping wail should be in your 75. I also do not think you need spellskite and should have access to 3 all is dust in the list.
I feel like our deck has a problem with too many good cards to play right now. I feel like I would need to play a 100 cards (main+side) deck to get all of the cards that I would want. Adding Walking Ballista resulted in the need to get rid of some cards. Some people are removing Ulamogs now, some move Chalices to the sideboard. Some people get rid of Batterskulls, some remove some number of Endbringers. Spellskites seem to be out of the deck. Basilisk Collars are now a must when they used to be a sideboard tech. It's just impossible to play all the great cards in the deck right now. I had a real hard time figuring out what I want to remove from the deck and from the sideboard yesterday.
We used to have around 50-55 must have cards and then added some fringe cards. Now I feel like we have 70 must have cards and no fringe slots left.
I'm in the same spot as you but I think the reason why it feels this way is that the metagame is so diverse. You could literally run into anything and it is really difficult to figure out what the optimal build is. I think the best way forward is to determine the most flexible answers and run those.
Not playing Sanctum of Ugin is a mistake right now. This deck reliably triggers Sanctum with Ballista/Karn/All Is Dust, even Chalice in a pinch, and the best way to win a Tron mirror is to Ulamog two Tron pieces.
I'm not so sure. I think Cavern ensures you do not lose to runner runner counterspell.dec and gemstone caverns enables pretty insane plays on the draw. I don't think it is right to play less than 4 ghost quarter or to drop the sea gate.
Can anyone share or link me to good sideboarding info for GB Tron?
2 Archfiend of Ifnir
2 Faerie Macabre
4 Desert Cerodon
4 Horror of the Broken Lands
4 Monstrous Carabid
4 Street Wraith
3 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Living End
3 Demonic Dread
4 Violent Outburst
Land (18)
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Blood Crypt
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Ground
1 Blooming Marsh
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
So for the remaining 6 maindeck slots, there are two configurations I've been playing with but am not super happy with either one ...
4 Fulminator Mage
1 Demonic Dread OR Kari Zev's Expertise
1 Land (4th grove in my case)
4 Architects of Will
2 Twisted Abomination
What do you guys feel is strongest in those last 6 slots?
2 Archfiend of Ifnir
2 Faerie Macabre
4 Desert Cerodon
4 Horror of the Broken Lands
4 Monstrous Carabid
4 Street Wraith
3 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Living End
3 Demonic Dread
4 Violent Outburst
Land (18)
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Blood Crypt
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Ground
1 Blooming Marsh
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
So for the remaining 6 maindeck slots, there are two configurations I've been playing with but am not super happy with either one ...
4 Fulminator Mage
1 Demonic Dread OR Kari Zev's Expertise
1 Land (4th grove in my case)
4 Architects of Will
2 Twisted Abomination
What do you guys feel is strongest in those last 6 slots?
I'll be going with 4x of the new 1 mana cyclers and 2x of the archfiend. Never dropping spirit guide, the extra speed is awesome. Will try 18 lands with the 4 groves.
Trying to figure out what the weakest cards are to try out some of the other things ya'll have been doing also.
Right now, top of my list is Burnished Hart ... I just don't like paying 6 mana for 2 lands. Wondering what the rest of you think is the lowest hanging fruit?
0 Everflowing Chalice
0 Lion's Eye Diamond
0 Mana Crypt
0 Mox Opal
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
2 Doubling Cube
2 Grim Monolith
2 Helm of Awakening
2 Mind Stone
3 Ashnod's Altar
3 Basalt Monolith
3 Burnished Hart
3 Chromatic Lantern
3 Coalition Relic
3 Kyren Toy
3 Metalworker
3 Palladium Myr
3 Semblance Anvil
3 Worn Powerstone
3 Inspiring Statuary
4 Hedron Archive
4 Krark-Clan Ironworks
4 Sisay's Ring
4 Solemn Simulacrum
4 Thran Dynamo
4 Ur-Golem's Eye
5 Gilded Lotus
6 Dreamstone Hedron
6 Oblivion Sower
Untap and haste
1 Voltaic Key
4 Clock of Omens
4 Unwinding Clock
2 Lightning Greaves
2 Swiftfoot Boots
3 Haunted Cloak
10 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
12 Blightsteel Colossus
Draw/FIlter/Tutor
1 Expedition Map
1 Sensei's Divining Top
5 Kuldotha Forgemaster
5 Mind's Eye
6 Staff of Nin
6 Conduit of Ruin
10 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
Utility
0 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Strionic Resonator
2 Torpor Orb
2 Winter Orb
3 Rings of Brighthearth
3 Sculpting Steel
3 Tangle Wire
3 Crucible of Worlds
4 Trading Post
6 Duplicant
6 Mindslaver
7 All is Dust
7 Karn Liberated
7 Myr Battlesphere
7 Spine of Ish Sah
8 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Lands that don't make mana
0 Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
0 Maze of Ith
Extra Mana Lands
0 Ancient Tomb
0 Crystal Vein
0 Eldrazi Temple
0 Mage-Ring Network
0 Shrine of the Forsaken Gods
0 Temple of the False God
0 Eye of Ugin
0 Dustbowl
0 Rishadan Port
0 Strip Mine
0 Tectonic Edge
0 Wasteland
Utility
0 Blasted Landscape
0 Blinkmoth Nexus
0 Buried Ruin
0 Cavern of Souls
0 Darksteel Citadel
0 Geier Reach Sanitarium
0 High Market
0 Homeward Path
0 Inkmoth Nexus
0 Inventor's Fair
0 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
0 Miren, the Moaning Well
0 Rogue's Passage
0 Sanctum of Ugin
0 Sea Gate Wreckage
0 Thespian's Stage
0 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Basics
0 Wastes
0 Wastes
0 Wastes
0 Wastes
0 Wastes
On the topic of sideboarding things like angel's grace ... I agree with folks saying boarding the white / black leylines is just bad. You really need as many cards as possible that further your gameplan on top of whatever utility they provide. Cards that counter other strategies while still dealing damage are superb (revelry / deflecting palm) as well as cards that cantrip (relic, hallowed moonlight). Things like leylines just water down your deck to the point where you need to draw bolt to win and you get a leyline.
1) What's the point of playing talisman main? Blood moon insulation? More T3 TKS?
2) It seems like 5 mana dorks and 23 lands is the "optimal" amount of mana sources (ignoring talismans) is that right?
3) Some lists seem to shave the third yavimaya coasts for a utility land (ghost quarter, sea gate wreckage, etc) is that essentially free?
4) Eleder Deep-Fiend over the 4th drowner seems like it could be pretty badass ... or just having access to a 5th big fat fatty thing in general. How has EDF worked and what other cards have you all found success with?
Thanks in advance for the insights!
So you said burning inquiry over neonate then didn't include it in your proposed list?
Extractor demon is a spicy one ... I like the idea of using it with crypt, I played that deck in standard briefly when it was legal. But I wonder if the tempo loss from crypt coming in tapped is just too costly for modern. I don't play the deck in tournaments (I have playtested it a lot), just lurking and speculating.
Would you mind sharing your list? I'm putting together GB tron considering playing it at states this weekend ... I have played GR and GW but never GB before. Explanation of non-standard choices would be super helpful too if you have the time!
Since there might be lifegain, I think I would want to run the commands in the main. Here's the list I'm considering ... is anyone running something similar? It seems odd to run the commands w/o nacatl but I just can't get behind a non-haste creature that dies to every 1 mana removal in the format.
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
1 Grim Lavamancer
4 Atarka's Command
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
3 Searing Blaze
2 Skullcrack
11 Fetches
3 Mountain
2 Inspiring Vantage
2 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
3 Kor Firewalker
2 Deflecting Palm
4 Destructive Revelry
3 Path to Exile
2 Shattering Spree
1 Unknown Card
I would argue the 3rd Endbringer and the 4th Chalice are flex slots also. A friend of mine who has piloted the deck for a long time swears by 3 Chalice main and he only runs two endbringers. I have had games where I drew two endbringers and the second was dead in my hand so I'm confident in going down to 2.
As far as your other choices, I think warping wail deserves a spot in the 75. I would also run Ulamog over Karn in the main (maybe play karn out of the board or in another MD slot) I also think warping wail should be in your 75. I also do not think you need spellskite and should have access to 3 all is dust in the list.
I'm in the same spot as you but I think the reason why it feels this way is that the metagame is so diverse. You could literally run into anything and it is really difficult to figure out what the optimal build is. I think the best way forward is to determine the most flexible answers and run those.
I'm not so sure. I think Cavern ensures you do not lose to runner runner counterspell.dec and gemstone caverns enables pretty insane plays on the draw. I don't think it is right to play less than 4 ghost quarter or to drop the sea gate.