8/22 FNM Rundown: 18 people, lots of Fae, Mirrormaster, RDW, sprinkling of other competitive decks, a few oddballs. I went 3-1, took fifth, cheated out of top 4 on stupid tiebreaks cause opponents did crappy!
Match 1: 2-0 vs. RDW
First game I traded creatures (I think this is what you have to do) as my life shrank into single didgets, but managed to get chumps and pull off an Overrun ftw. Game two sided out 3 Overrun, 2 Champion, 1 Ambush; sided in 3 Vigor and 3 Jagged-Scar Archers. Similar to first game, only I won with multiple "lord" effects this time. Don't see Vigor, but I get to shoot down a Demigod!
Match 2: 2-1 vs. Kithkin Mirrormaster
Game 1, a reinforced and Cenn-boosted Knight held off my guys and flyers took it for him. Game 2 and 3, I was just faster. I really see this as one of our best MUs. I mean, they are just like us, but slower. They also run little, if any, creature kill so we're free to ball out asap. I don't even bother to side in Vigor.
Match 3: 0-2 vs. Doran Rock
Game 1, he drops turn 2 Doran, puts Shield of the Oversoul on it turn 3, and swings with his indestructable, flying, 7/7 for three straight turns - killing me turn five. I might have been able to race if he hadn't had so much creature kill. Game 2, still gaping at his luck from game 1 and not thinking straight, I keep a bad hand and lose.
Match 4: 2-0 vs. U/W control, running Tef, Wrath, Sower, Cryptic, lots of counter magic (a pretty good deck).
Game 1, he mulligans down to 5, nuff said. I had better win that. Game two, I go fast, he stalls on third land, and I win turn 5. He beat me 2 weeks back, so I was happy to avenge my loss and get the best of a true control deck for once.
Honestly, I don't see how your deck even fits this archtype. It's not running any of the staples of this deck (Wilt-Leaf Liege, Wilt-Leaf Cavaliers, Safehold Elite, Shield of the Oversoul, Overrun) except Kitchen Finks. You seem to be going for more of a mono G elf build just based on solid creatures. While there is nothing wrong with going that route, I think you are losing touch with the concept of this deck. I.e. get out creatures that are good for their mana cost (and hard to kill), pump them up to huge size, and overwhelm your opponent. If you want to go the mono G route, why not check out the Elf-Ball thread? It is faster (and possibly more powerful) than this archtype, but lacks the staying power of many of these creatures - making it more vulnerable to board sweepers and removal in general.
So I got a playset of horizon canopy and I'm thinking of adding them in, what do you guys think?
I don't know about that. Imo the damage it will do to you is not worth an extra card late game at the expense of a land you might need to use to pump out your alpha strike. Now if you were also planning on some great W splash in the sideboard, then I would say go for it. That being said, I think B is THE splash (Prowess of the Fair + spot removal) if you're going to splash.
Wow! I was just checking to see what people were commenting on in regard to Treefolk being competitive, and happen upon an interesting tech against something I've been having trouble with recently. I guess I automatically thought Squall Line is better against Fae and discarded Raking Canopy, never considering that it might actually be better for other things. Never know what you might find, even when you're not looking, I guess. Thx, props 2 u 4 cool tech, lolz!
Step IV, Combat Damage: If he Terrored your warchief before the declare attackers step, not much happens. If he didn't, he takes however much damage is dealt.
So when would be the last opportunity for him to Terror/destroy in any way my creatures to stop them from dealing combat damage? Example: My opponent has out Royal Assassin. I say I'm entering my "Attack Phase" (Step I). I "declare my attackers," tapping the Warchief and the two Piledrivers (Step II). At the end of this step I pass priority to him (right?), giving him the opportunity to play instant spells or abilities, so he taps his Royal Assassin, destroying one of my Piledrivers. I know my Piledriver is destroyed, but does it still do it's damage? If so, and he does this instead at the end of the "declare blockers" step (Step III), does it still do it's damage? I assume if he waits until Step IV, "Combat Damage," it's too late, right?
It does seem that people have turned their attention elsewhere at this time, but do not fear, post-rotation this deck will make a comeback.
Anyway, I've been seeing some strange variations of this deck recently. Like a few people at my FNM run a mono W version (really W(G/W), but the mana-base can only produce W), similar to the old mono G (really G(G/W)) version. This allows for a lot of consistency in dropping stuff like Knight of Meadowgrain, Oversoul of Dusk, Light from Within, Runed Halo (in the side), etc... but still playing the trational stuff like Wilt-Leaf Liege, Wilt-Leaf Cavaliers, Safehold Elite, Kitchen Finks, etc... I don't know if this type of build will be as successful as the original versions. I'm not sure you can even call it GW/Mono G Elves anymore, but it has a similar feel. I thought I'd bring it up here to see If I could spurr on a little discussion.
Treefolk can give fits to RDW, but that's about it. Their high toughness is irrelevant against faeries that just fly over, and elves or kithkin that pump out overwhelming numbers of tokens.
I disaggree. RDW is not the only thing out there that will fall victum to the aggro-crushing wall of wood. Personally, I have an Elf-Ball and a Kithkin deck. Both usually get destroyed by my mono G Treefolk deck in play testing. In fact, I don't think either has ever won a series against it. My friend's BG Elves does better because it has removal that doesn't depend on toughness (unlike RDW), but I'd still say it's 50/50 easy.
That being said, Treefolk get slaughtered by Fae, Lark, and control in general. They are, after all, a mid-range deck whose strength is aggainst aggro, so I would agree that they could be good at FNM, depending on your meta, but won't perform in bigger tournys dominated by Tier 1 decks (Fae, Lark, Toast, etc...).
Thanks, you guys are really giving a lesson in the workings of a game, and I appreciate it. One more question though...
Quote from sorrel »
You play the first Goblin Piledriver. As it goes on the stack, you get priority, but can't play anything so you pass. He is able to Terror the warchief now, and probably would, because this stops you from playing the other piledriver because it would lose the cost reduction. It would also stop the piledriver on the stack from attacking. For the sake of this excercise though, we'll pretend he deosn't play terror. So, the piledriver resolves and you get priority.
I was under the assumption (I guess wrongly so) that once you play the Piledriver, laying it on the table for all to see, it is a spell on the stack whose casting cost (decreases included) has already been payed. In other words, wouldn't it still come into play for just the one red mana that I originally payed even if you blast my Warchief in response? If not, would I have to tap the other mountain adding the additional mana to play him, or could I decide not to play it after all. I mean, what if I didn't have that fifth mountain? Is the Piledriver countered, thus forcing me to put it into the graveyard, seeing how I wouldn't be able to afford his "new" cost, or is it just returned to my hand because I wouldn't be able to afford his "new" cost?
I'm sorry this is so difficult for me. Would it be possible for you guys to break down every opportunity my opponent has to blast the Warchief up until the moment it is too late to stop the others from attacking. In other words, could you lay out all the steps/phases between when I play the Warchief in my main phase and when I finally deal damage with it and the others.
My opponent has Dawn Elemental out. I attack him with Wren's Run Vanquisher; I was wondering if the deathtouch kills the Elemental if he blocks with it? Personally, I don't think it does because Dawn Elemental reads "prevent all damage dealt to Dawn Elemental." In a similar situation, I attack with Boggart Ram-Gang, which has wither. Does the Elemental get the -1/-1 counters and die? I think this one is a bit trickier because Boggart Ram-Gang reads "deals damage in the form of -1/-1 counters," but if damage is prevented? Any help would be appreciated.
Let's say I lay him down, and two other goblins. They all have haste, so I declare my attack phase, planning on attacking with everyone. Unfortunately, my opponent Terrors my Warchief in response to me declaring my attack phase. Does this mean that the other two goblins (the ones that just came into play this turn) can't attack now?
Match 1: 2-0 vs. RDW
First game I traded creatures (I think this is what you have to do) as my life shrank into single didgets, but managed to get chumps and pull off an Overrun ftw. Game two sided out 3 Overrun, 2 Champion, 1 Ambush; sided in 3 Vigor and 3 Jagged-Scar Archers.
Match 2: 2-1 vs. Kithkin Mirrormaster
Game 1, a reinforced and Cenn-boosted Knight held off my guys and flyers took it for him. Game 2 and 3, I was just faster. I really see this as one of our best MUs. I mean, they are just like us, but slower. They also run little, if any, creature kill so we're free to ball out asap. I don't even bother to side in Vigor.
Match 3: 0-2 vs. Doran Rock
Game 1, he drops turn 2 Doran, puts Shield of the Oversoul on it turn 3, and swings with his indestructable, flying, 7/7 for three straight turns - killing me turn five. I might have been able to race if he hadn't had so much creature kill.
Match 4: 2-0 vs. U/W control, running Tef, Wrath, Sower, Cryptic, lots of counter magic (a pretty good deck).
Game 1, he mulligans down to 5, nuff said. I had better win that. Game two, I go fast, he stalls on third land, and I win turn 5. He beat me 2 weeks back, so I was happy to avenge my loss and get the best of a true control deck for once.
The only changes from previously posted deck (page 45) were -3 Twinblade Slasher, -2 Elvish Promenade, -2 Forest for +2 Elvish Eulogist, +2 Gaea's Anthem, +3 Treetop Village maindeck, and -1 Squall Line, -4 Guttural Response for +2 Riftsweeper, +3 Jagged-Scar Archers sideboard. I must give full credit to you Noob for talking me out of the Promenades. I thought of all your fine arguements against it as drew 2 and then an Overrun just after my friend got done playing Damnation on me in a friendly last night. Also, Gaea's Anthem was MVP tonight for sure. It was refreshing to lay down a pump effect knowing that it basically could not be killed and would be there working nicely with Treetop post-Wrath.
Honestly, I don't see how your deck even fits this archtype. It's not running any of the staples of this deck (Wilt-Leaf Liege, Wilt-Leaf Cavaliers, Safehold Elite, Shield of the Oversoul, Overrun) except Kitchen Finks. You seem to be going for more of a mono G elf build just based on solid creatures. While there is nothing wrong with going that route, I think you are losing touch with the concept of this deck. I.e. get out creatures that are good for their mana cost (and hard to kill), pump them up to huge size, and overwhelm your opponent. If you want to go the mono G route, why not check out the Elf-Ball thread? It is faster (and possibly more powerful) than this archtype, but lacks the staying power of many of these creatures - making it more vulnerable to board sweepers and removal in general.
I don't know about that. Imo the damage it will do to you is not worth an extra card late game at the expense of a land you might need to use to pump out your alpha strike. Now if you were also planning on some great W splash in the sideboard, then I would say go for it. That being said, I think B is THE splash (Prowess of the Fair + spot removal) if you're going to splash.
Wow! I was just checking to see what people were commenting on in regard to Treefolk being competitive, and happen upon an interesting tech against something I've been having trouble with recently. I guess I automatically thought Squall Line is better against Fae and discarded Raking Canopy, never considering that it might actually be better for other things. Never know what you might find, even when you're not looking, I guess. Thx, props 2 u 4 cool tech, lolz!
So when would be the last opportunity for him to Terror/destroy in any way my creatures to stop them from dealing combat damage? Example: My opponent has out Royal Assassin. I say I'm entering my "Attack Phase" (Step I). I "declare my attackers," tapping the Warchief and the two Piledrivers (Step II). At the end of this step I pass priority to him (right?), giving him the opportunity to play instant spells or abilities, so he taps his Royal Assassin, destroying one of my Piledrivers. I know my Piledriver is destroyed, but does it still do it's damage? If so, and he does this instead at the end of the "declare blockers" step (Step III), does it still do it's damage? I assume if he waits until Step IV, "Combat Damage," it's too late, right?
Once again, I appreciate your patience.
It does seem that people have turned their attention elsewhere at this time, but do not fear, post-rotation this deck will make a comeback.
Anyway, I've been seeing some strange variations of this deck recently. Like a few people at my FNM run a mono W version (really W(G/W), but the mana-base can only produce W), similar to the old mono G (really G(G/W)) version. This allows for a lot of consistency in dropping stuff like Knight of Meadowgrain, Oversoul of Dusk, Light from Within, Runed Halo (in the side), etc... but still playing the trational stuff like Wilt-Leaf Liege, Wilt-Leaf Cavaliers, Safehold Elite, Kitchen Finks, etc... I don't know if this type of build will be as successful as the original versions. I'm not sure you can even call it GW/Mono G Elves anymore, but it has a similar feel. I thought I'd bring it up here to see If I could spurr on a little discussion.
I disaggree. RDW is not the only thing out there that will fall victum to the aggro-crushing wall of wood. Personally, I have an Elf-Ball and a Kithkin deck. Both usually get destroyed by my mono G Treefolk deck in play testing. In fact, I don't think either has ever won a series against it. My friend's BG Elves does better because it has removal that doesn't depend on toughness (unlike RDW), but I'd still say it's 50/50 easy.
That being said, Treefolk get slaughtered by Fae, Lark, and control in general. They are, after all, a mid-range deck whose strength is aggainst aggro, so I would agree that they could be good at FNM, depending on your meta, but won't perform in bigger tournys dominated by Tier 1 decks (Fae, Lark, Toast, etc...).
Here's a link to my deck: Treefolk
I was under the assumption (I guess wrongly so) that once you play the Piledriver, laying it on the table for all to see, it is a spell on the stack whose casting cost (decreases included) has already been payed. In other words, wouldn't it still come into play for just the one red mana that I originally payed even if you blast my Warchief in response? If not, would I have to tap the other mountain adding the additional mana to play him, or could I decide not to play it after all. I mean, what if I didn't have that fifth mountain? Is the Piledriver countered, thus forcing me to put it into the graveyard, seeing how I wouldn't be able to afford his "new" cost, or is it just returned to my hand because I wouldn't be able to afford his "new" cost?
Let's say I lay him down, and two other goblins. They all have haste, so I declare my attack phase, planning on attacking with everyone. Unfortunately, my opponent Terrors my Warchief in response to me declaring my attack phase. Does this mean that the other two goblins (the ones that just came into play this turn) can't attack now?
As soon as people start thinking like that, Dredge will make a comeback! You always have to look out for the "Boogeyman!"