I'm curious if anyone is having success with testing Vexing Devil's (or adjusting for a set throughout the list). I know I've been having moderate success for sure, note though I kept the core template and sliced the Swiftspear's for the set (give up the haste for a 7 point head start, shock+fetch in 80% of the games).
Which in theory is the exact same thing a recent player did with success using Nacatl's (give up haste for a stiff recurring bolt, but with the Devil's their option only appears to be one in the first 3 1/2 turns in).
There's been plenty of conversations with regards to the Devil's stance of late when searching out the dudes who're willing to run them. One of the The best things reading/hearing from negative critics on the topic is "well I'll just pay the life or kill the Devil with a spell)...most of the rebuttals from seasoned players are "yeah that's exactly what I want you to do the first few turns in is pay that life/damage, and this is MTG if you were going to decay, path or bolt something you were already going to do so on the Guide or Swift etc".
I tend to go with the times and make the adjustments that are needed regardless of templates when it comes to meta diving, so anyone else dabbling so to speak?
Prime example that some folks have money/funds to burn...you combo that with a bit of stupidity and you have a Foil Tarmogoyf that's 16K with bids on Ebay.
I've been watching since day 1, and I'll be real impressed if the winning bidder actually pays for it when ended...a small moment of "smarts" might kick in and the joke will be over.
Priceless when you think about it all, kind of like the artist that pulled over a 100k for a blank standard piece of white paper he framed and used for "inspiration" during another art project (used some story which was all bull***** and someone snacked fast to pay him a load of cash, for one 1.1 cent slice of paper)
Most likely in our current times if you have a scandalous plan...someone is stupid enough to make it come to fruition (88 bids clearly backs that statement, the story is for the birds on this one in my opinion).
Interesting seeing the lack of activity on a scale to presume it's Legacy (especially when you check the council with regards to the "archetype" numbers in question), but I can share Commander is pushing the card to new heights (hell that was one of the statements when I was in Des Moines and almost parted a copy to the shop down there when SCG had their states event, EDH gold I believe their worker shared).
Hmm but I won't beat the dead horse on the Legacy format, but I'm more then confidant a few cards are seeing "futures" because of EDH, not because of Legacy.
You can and will be fine with at least 3 Molten (the 4th is as stated 20% or higher). Blood Moon can be supported but you better be playing Boros and be willing also to feel the pinch if white is something you need to get "there" later in the game (I feel strongly that Moon isn't needed, but hey everyone needs their own forms of crutches).
Punishment is a narrow application, I don't know what you would like to see and feel with regards to that perspective on the card...it is narrow...but boy does it work harder then J-Lo at a ghetto car wash stand (before her In Living Color days).
We bring a fight to all tier 1 decks (and almost destory all rogue variants), Jund is Jund (they still fetch and play the game etc & we will still burn them down at every chance we can get).
Someone has to win and someone has to lose. I'm not scared of the pretzel color wheel knowing just how consistent and fast burn is (if anyone feels burn is an autopilot archetype, well that's their problem/'s to start with). If the you know your match-up and of course keep strong starting hands you shouldn't fear any other archetype while playing burn...I know my side`board doesn't after I win game/'s 1 (which is almost all the time).
Anyone got answers to how to beat Jund? Its getting more rampant in my LGS and i worry its going to the next Meta-thing....
What sideboard options/strategies do we have against a deck that attritions so well with our cards in general?
The best card against Jund is molten rain. I would load up on the full 4 of them in the sideboard. Another option is too run blood moon if you can. The real issue we have with jund is they have the same value cards as abzan, but they take less damage from their mana base. If your meta has an extremely high percentage of jund, and I mean 20 plus percent, it might be worthwhile to go 2 color and run blood moon.
3 Blood moon over 3 Molten Rain? Or is 4 Molten Rains better?
Had some trouble with Soul Sisters today.... got ran out of the gates with their weenies and couldn't fan him out quickly as he got to insane amount of life. Experimenting a 2 off Leyline of Punishment in sideboard but its great if you get it...but feels very narrow.
Here's a list my friend just shared with me via PM, since we're on the topic of 16 1cc Burn (Black). A LGS event with 33 participants, 1st place (no report).
I do feel there's no reason for me to "not" buy the few cards needed, so the order went it.
Now I'm wondering why I bought the 3rd & 4th Mesa lol (remember I'm a Boros fan at first glance, 6-10 is all I really needed).
The deck looks insane though and I can't find a real area to nick pick at...with that proper push as for the black splash in SB and for the other reasons just shared by Tom...yeah it looks like a real SOB.
And yes Dark Confidant is for decks that really need that card advantage to get through the "mid" game, all we need is an opponent to fetch and shock themselves just once...at that point I strongly feel our steel toe work boot is ready for insertion.
I appreciate the time you took to reply to my question Tom.
I suspected it was more of a personal choice (you mentioned you're more "comfortable" with the back splash), as long as the results are winning...it works I suppose. Do keep us updated on your future showings with your template/build.
I'll buy the 8 cards to make that splash open for collection use, though I'll pass on the Confidants as I know for sure that is most likely a bad idea (no pun, just my opinion, and it's a seasoned one with regards to Bob).
The archetype rewards you with strong "starting" hands, side boarding like a surgeon, and remembering that "extra" tempo comes from the bridge of your opponents temple (what I made a funny).
I don't need any extra cards to win before turn 4 on average (I can state with a humble smile that if I'm going past turns 5 without an EOT kill plan it's because I'm toying with my opponent just to be "that guy", or I would have scoped already to an unwinnable situation).
Can I inquire if you don't mind Tom for your reasons of choosing the black over the other choices? I'm attempting to gauge the topic on going that route in detail (hell anyone can chime it, I can get links if needed for the white/green finishes), especially with the other templates providing more consistent results (note this is a positive question, no pun).
I'm well aware of all the splashes, I'm just having a hard time finding Black more resilient then what White and Green have to offer over the long haul on a tournament day with more then 9 people in a room, and I mean this.
Thanks in advance, I truly appreciate all the answers to my questions...it makes me more and more deadly with regards to the archetype (I enjoy opening free packs/points etc ).
Hey Burnies. With so much lifegain going on around, maybe its time we dust off Rain of Gore? Yes/No, why? Still a Burnoob, here.
Depending on where I play, I sometimes have 2 Rain of Gore in the sideboard : running the black splash gives mazing sideboard cards such as this one. Rakdos Charm is also a must have for me against UR Twin, BW Tokens, Elves, etc.
It's truly not needed when in playing response (we win between turns 3-4) and you're packing 4-6 copies of Crack effects. I do want to share for those that are into the Boros variants that Leyline of Punishment (1-2 copies I shuffle around) have been outstanding.
The funny thing is watching the someone overboard to handle it (Leyline with tandem of Cracks), and in the cases where Eidolon comes out it completely makes for a lot of dead draws when shared they could "also handle him"...again in my experience Punishment as been very solid.
Now I'm not saying that the black splash isn't decent, but why go the second route when white and green splashes are more consistent and proven with regards to results (food for thought).
Final note...nothing can replace Boros charm or Helix in today's meta in my opinion, sure having a few extra 1cc burn spells looks good on paper...but the results on "paper" say otherwise (tourney reports).
I take it you're comfortable if you face Leyline of Sanctity with only 2 Wear/Tear?
If you don't see anything of sorts I completely understand your SB, this color wheel really allows for some very tight curtain calls games 2-3 that's for sure.
For those that love the Boros variants I've been playing this template and I'll soon be ready to hit a few tourneys with it.
So far it has been very consistent and effective, and just a reminder I'm a fan of going root deep with Skullcrack.
The list is exactly the same as Susuki's (I hope I spelled that correctly) 1st place template with the exception of dropping 1 land (also cutting 2 mountains for 2 Arid Mesa) and adding the sole Shard Volley.
Now there have been a couple of games that I've thought 4 Skullcrack seems a tad bit much main g1, but they always feel right g2-g3 etc.
I normally don't post my SB as much as I used to (snake players I have to face lol) as they're simply something folks crutch on when they build "net-decks" (SB should be all about YOUR META), but heck I might as well seeing it has been beautiful of late.
3 Wear//Tear (Modern Gold)
2 Smash into Smithereens (Reinforcements)
3 Path to Exile (I path Kor Firewalkers and Company, anything a Bolt can't kill)
2 Deflecting Palm (Infect, Stompy, Boggles, Rick James)
4 Molten Rain (When I plan against facing 3cc decks, well I like to really "GO-IN")
1 Leyline of Punishment (My 5th against Life Gain, open with Skullcrack or This games 2-3)
Right now it's all working for me (Infinity, Stompy, Mirror, Azban, Dredge and the list goes on)..I mean toast.
Only if the outcome could provide fruitful results as stated with the Guides (again a topic there, but as stated previously these event decks are making me view things a tad bit differently).
What was outlined on the Into the Breach deck was a reality (again my set of guides were under $50 for gem mint copies, Starcitygames or any other "house-vendor" would have liver punched me for what $120), and this was all done after the confirmation that NO GUIDE was in Modern Masters 2...which is huge to say the least. Ebay is slow as hell sometimes with catching up on stuff.
I appreciate that other member bringing up the topic (FOR US ALL), and I loved exploiting it, but I wasn't the first that's for sure.
Heritage Druid is going through the roof right now. Fortunately, most of the rest of the deck (collected company elves) was either printed/reprinted very recently or is common (thank you C14!). Cavern of Souls could see a bump from this as well since most of the deck is cheap and seems reasonably competitive.
S.M., what are your thoughts about keeping an eye on the Modern event deck? Sword of Feast and Famine, path to exile, and Inquisition of Kozilek are really rebounding from their low point to where you might be able to break even or better opening that too.
So in retrospect buying those decks at the price's you shared, dumping the cards in it reducing your play-set to a very low figure...then selling the guides off as well, shoot that sounds like a huge circle of "I just went nowhere".
Just enjoy your Guides, sell the other stuff and have your set cheap. The overall cost you can have your set is still insanely low...and the reprint wouldn't even hurt you with regards to their value (post re-print).
S.M.
Exactly, busting the decks open makes sense if you need the guides and sell the rest. You lose too much selling the guides too. My rule of thumb as an independent seller is to expect to make slightly less than the current tcgplayer low. This is why I'm less optimistic on selling the filler than S.M., but if you already needed the guides then you can in effect turn a profit.
EDIT: It is very rare that you can turn a profit busting and completely reselling a known commodity sealed product for the simple fact that if the profit were easily made the original owner would have either done it or charged more for the sealed product.
Very valid point there at the end...but when the topic is at $45 those fillers really do make the prospect a reality, at least on this topic.
Again at the price's of "NOW" (current as of this morning) it probably isn't a viable option. But this does as I stated earlier make me view these event decks differently (again another member brought the topic up, he was right as I did exactly what he shared).
Lol...if you live in paranoia on stuff like this...I wouldn't even bother so to speak, it'll give you acid reflex.
In all seriousness they will most likely get reprint in the future re-visit of Zendikar, but even if that doesn't happen you most surely can expect a re-print sooner rather then later most likely (it is a staple and the player's need them).
So in retrospect buying those decks at the price's you shared, dumping the cards in it reducing your play-set to a very low figure...then selling the guides off as well, shoot that sounds like a huge circle of "I just went nowhere".
Just enjoy your Guides, sell the other stuff and have your set cheap. The overall cost you can have your set is still insanely low...and the reprint wouldn't even hurt you with regards to their value (post re-print).
I believe I might try to dump the guides as well. I can't help but feel that there's a reason why it wasn't put into MM2015 after being posted as a spoiler on this site before spoilers were announced. I could be being paranoid though.
Which in theory is the exact same thing a recent player did with success using Nacatl's (give up haste for a stiff recurring bolt, but with the Devil's their option only appears to be one in the first 3 1/2 turns in).
There's been plenty of conversations with regards to the Devil's stance of late when searching out the dudes who're willing to run them. One of the The best things reading/hearing from negative critics on the topic is "well I'll just pay the life or kill the Devil with a spell)...most of the rebuttals from seasoned players are "yeah that's exactly what I want you to do the first few turns in is pay that life/damage, and this is MTG if you were going to decay, path or bolt something you were already going to do so on the Guide or Swift etc".
I tend to go with the times and make the adjustments that are needed regardless of templates when it comes to meta diving, so anyone else dabbling so to speak?
S.M.
I've been watching since day 1, and I'll be real impressed if the winning bidder actually pays for it when ended...a small moment of "smarts" might kick in and the joke will be over.
Priceless when you think about it all, kind of like the artist that pulled over a 100k for a blank standard piece of white paper he framed and used for "inspiration" during another art project (used some story which was all bull***** and someone snacked fast to pay him a load of cash, for one 1.1 cent slice of paper)
Most likely in our current times if you have a scandalous plan...someone is stupid enough to make it come to fruition (88 bids clearly backs that statement, the story is for the birds on this one in my opinion).
S.M.
[/quote]
Glitch,
S.M.
Hmm but I won't beat the dead horse on the Legacy format, but I'm more then confidant a few cards are seeing "futures" because of EDH, not because of Legacy.
S.M.
Punishment is a narrow application, I don't know what you would like to see and feel with regards to that perspective on the card...it is narrow...but boy does it work harder then J-Lo at a ghetto car wash stand (before her In Living Color days).
We bring a fight to all tier 1 decks (and almost destory all rogue variants), Jund is Jund (they still fetch and play the game etc & we will still burn them down at every chance we can get).
Someone has to win and someone has to lose. I'm not scared of the pretzel color wheel knowing just how consistent and fast burn is (if anyone feels burn is an autopilot archetype, well that's their problem/'s to start with). If the you know your match-up and of course keep strong starting hands you shouldn't fear any other archetype while playing burn...I know my side`board doesn't after I win game/'s 1 (which is almost all the time).
S.M.
I assume it's because it's a never miss with using nothing but 1cc spells to roast your suckling opponent, but that's my guess.
The list was present with thought, I passed that along...though Grim Lavamancer is insane is most of your aggro match-ups.
To the Hate Bear, this is a competitive thread...I highly doubt anything is going to slip by most of us
S.M.
4 Goblin Guide
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Eidolon of the Great Reveal
2 Grim Lavamancer (Insane in this variant)
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
4 Bump in the Night
4 Boros Charm (He "lol'd", no replacement for this card)
3 Skullcrack
3 Searing Blaze
1 Shard Volley (WTF...FTW?)
2 Blood Crypt
3 Sacred Foundry
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Arid Mesa
4 Mountain
S.B.
3 Wear//Tear (Stock)
2 Rakdos Charm (Twin, Yard and Infinity)
2 Rain of Gore (Life denial)
2 Deflecting Palm (Infect, Boggles, Stompy and a funny story I could share about infinity...but another time perhaps)
3 Path to Exile (Given)
3 Molten Rain (3-Color decompression)
I do feel there's no reason for me to "not" buy the few cards needed, so the order went it.
Now I'm wondering why I bought the 3rd & 4th Mesa lol (remember I'm a Boros fan at first glance, 6-10 is all I really needed).
The deck looks insane though and I can't find a real area to nick pick at...with that proper push as for the black splash in SB and for the other reasons just shared by Tom...yeah it looks like a real SOB.
And yes Dark Confidant is for decks that really need that card advantage to get through the "mid" game, all we need is an opponent to fetch and shock themselves just once...at that point I strongly feel our steel toe work boot is ready for insertion.
Power`House for sure.
S.M.
I suspected it was more of a personal choice (you mentioned you're more "comfortable" with the back splash), as long as the results are winning...it works I suppose. Do keep us updated on your future showings with your template/build.
I'll buy the 8 cards to make that splash open for collection use, though I'll pass on the Confidants as I know for sure that is most likely a bad idea (no pun, just my opinion, and it's a seasoned one with regards to Bob).
The archetype rewards you with strong "starting" hands, side boarding like a surgeon, and remembering that "extra" tempo comes from the bridge of your opponents temple (what I made a funny).
I don't need any extra cards to win before turn 4 on average (I can state with a humble smile that if I'm going past turns 5 without an EOT kill plan it's because I'm toying with my opponent just to be "that guy", or I would have scoped already to an unwinnable situation).
Thanks again Tom,
S.M.
I'm well aware of all the splashes, I'm just having a hard time finding Black more resilient then what White and Green have to offer over the long haul on a tournament day with more then 9 people in a room, and I mean this.
Thanks in advance, I truly appreciate all the answers to my questions...it makes me more and more deadly with regards to the archetype (I enjoy opening free packs/points etc
S.M.
The funny thing is watching the someone overboard to handle it (Leyline with tandem of Cracks), and in the cases where Eidolon comes out it completely makes for a lot of dead draws when shared they could "also handle him"...again in my experience Punishment as been very solid.
Now I'm not saying that the black splash isn't decent, but why go the second route when white and green splashes are more consistent and proven with regards to results (food for thought).
Final note...nothing can replace Boros charm or Helix in today's meta in my opinion, sure having a few extra 1cc burn spells looks good on paper...but the results on "paper" say otherwise (tourney reports).
Love the heat in this thread,
S.M.
If you don't see anything of sorts I completely understand your SB, this color wheel really allows for some very tight curtain calls games 2-3 that's for sure.
S.M.
So far it has been very consistent and effective, and just a reminder I'm a fan of going root deep with Skullcrack.
The list is exactly the same as Susuki's (I hope I spelled that correctly) 1st place template with the exception of dropping 1 land (also cutting 2 mountains for 2 Arid Mesa) and adding the sole Shard Volley.
4 Goblin Guide
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Eidolon the Great Reveal
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Helix
4 Skullcrack
4 Searing Blaze
1 Shard Volley
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
5 Mountain
2 Arid Mesa
4 Sacred Foundry
Now there have been a couple of games that I've thought 4 Skullcrack seems a tad bit much main g1, but they always feel right g2-g3 etc.
I normally don't post my SB as much as I used to (snake players I have to face lol) as they're simply something folks crutch on when they build "net-decks" (SB should be all about YOUR META), but heck I might as well seeing it has been beautiful of late.
3 Wear//Tear (Modern Gold)
2 Smash into Smithereens (Reinforcements)
3 Path to Exile (I path Kor Firewalkers and Company, anything a Bolt can't kill)
2 Deflecting Palm (Infect, Stompy, Boggles, Rick James)
4 Molten Rain (When I plan against facing 3cc decks, well I like to really "GO-IN")
1 Leyline of Punishment (My 5th against Life Gain, open with Skullcrack or This games 2-3)
Right now it's all working for me (Infinity, Stompy, Mirror, Azban, Dredge and the list goes on)..I mean toast.
I can't wait to dive in soon,
S.M.
What was outlined on the Into the Breach deck was a reality (again my set of guides were under $50 for gem mint copies, Starcitygames or any other "house-vendor" would have liver punched me for what $120), and this was all done after the confirmation that NO GUIDE was in Modern Masters 2...which is huge to say the least. Ebay is slow as hell sometimes with catching up on stuff.
I appreciate that other member bringing up the topic (FOR US ALL), and I loved exploiting it, but I wasn't the first that's for sure.
S.M.
Very valid point there at the end...but when the topic is at $45 those fillers really do make the prospect a reality, at least on this topic.
Again at the price's of "NOW" (current as of this morning) it probably isn't a viable option. But this does as I stated earlier make me view these event decks differently (again another member brought the topic up, he was right as I did exactly what he shared).
S.M.
In all seriousness they will most likely get reprint in the future re-visit of Zendikar, but even if that doesn't happen you most surely can expect a re-print sooner rather then later most likely (it is a staple and the player's need them).
So in retrospect buying those decks at the price's you shared, dumping the cards in it reducing your play-set to a very low figure...then selling the guides off as well, shoot that sounds like a huge circle of "I just went nowhere".
Just enjoy your Guides, sell the other stuff and have your set cheap. The overall cost you can have your set is still insanely low...and the reprint wouldn't even hurt you with regards to their value (post re-print).
S.M.