I don't run 4, 3 seems good enough since you should have some other stuff that's good against tron. I currently have 2 Negates, 2 Stony Silence, and 3 Aven Mindcensors extra to throw in there (and usually a Rest in Peace if it's the blue flavor of Tron just to hit their Mind lock and maybe a Solemn trigger). That along with ~7 discard, 3 Remand, 4 Meddling Mage, and Detention Sphere has actually given me a favorable matchup against them (along with Paths too for their Wurmcoils and even a Far/Away to make them sac Emrakul if that is ever relevant).
I've taken out Spreading Seas completely. I just wouldn't fetch it up with Zur and stuff like Aven Mindcensor or Negate is better against more decks and usually is good enough against Tron.
Also, note that in my list I'm running 2x Tec edge which is different from others. Hitting their Eye of Ugin before it gives them tons of card advantage is important, and sometimes you'll win games just by killing their Tron.
I wouldn't play Shadow of Doubt over Aven Mindcensor at all. You don't care about stopping 1 of Tron's searches that much. Stopping (effectively) ALL of their searches is so much better it's hard to describe.
If they have Tron assembled and Eye of Ugin, Shadow of Doubt stalls a turn. If you have Aven Mindcensor, it completely turns it off.
If they have Expedition Map or Sylvan Scrying, Shadow of the Doubt is just a counterspell. Aven Mindcensor stops not only that one, but all following ones.
Other than that, having 2 damage per turn is pretty great, since you want the game to end as early as possible. Yes, you'll get pyroclasmed, but you play him in response to a search effect so you're going to get value regardless.
And yes, I've been screwed by them finding the card they need in the top 4, but you have to play the probabilities if you want to win.
I've been testing the 2 different versions of the deck a lot and think the middle ground is better than either.
The first change I've made to the normal deck being run is taking out Deathrites again. Against a lot of decks you actually just don't need it, and against some of the decks you want it for, you'd rather be running Rest in Peace. I think this is the most metagame dependent choice I've made so far.
Aside from that, I tried running the no Remand version and really missed them. Hand hate and extra removal are great, but cycling while delaying the opponent for a turn and having a top deck that still draws you a card is too much to pass up. They are extremely useful for finding your 4th land by turn 4. I found myself not really caring about the Gitaxian Probes, so dropped 1 to fit in extra stuff. I also dropped a Clique because there are so many good things to play in this deck that getting an extra Clique stuck in your hand isn't worth the risk. Here's my current testing list that I'm going with:
I've lost games to having 2x River of Tears. Missing a land drop is already bad, but if it stops me from playing a Disfigure or Thoughtseize it's just a game loss sometimes. I've dropped it down to 1x since it's still good to have free untapped lands to play. I tried out the Darkslick Shores style lands and do not like them. We like hitting 4 mana and playing our 4 drops, and sometimes you already have lands like Creeping Tar Pit messing with your tempo, and also requiring a 4th untapped land to activate on turn 4. I think it's overall better to play shock duals, being this mana hungry.
Creeping Tar Pit is just better than Celestial Colonnade. It hits Planeswalkers way better and you don't need 6 lands to activate and use it.
Also, Eiganjo Castle hasn't been pulling much weight recently. It's a good land, though, since it makes colors and doesn't hurt you. I'm not necessarily considering removing it yet, but it has shown a bit of weakness so far.
I just played a deck that splashed blue for Deprive and Remand. I don't think it's worth it at all, as it's a huge strain on the manabase and you don't really want to leave up 2 mana here.
Although admittedly, you're probably not going to be wanting to flood the board. It's narrow and a little slow.
Once again, everyone needs to be asking themselves, "is this card worth playing in a deck that can't sneak it into play?"
Playing Zur doesn't mean playing random enchantments just because they are enchantments. If you wouldn't pay 3 for a 2/2 vanilla flier or 5 for +2/+2 and flying, then it isn't good enough to be played period.
First of all, you can't search for cards that are enchantments after they flip... second, most of those you mentioned are in the primer and have been dismissed for not doing enough.
You need to think what these cards would do to help the deck.
Nighthowler looks fun, but what's he good against? Not Tron, Twin, or Storm decks. Not good against Jund, who run Deathrite Shaman + Scavenging Ooze. That leaves very few decks where it's even guaranteed to be a non-0/0. It isn't costed efficiently enough to run him without Zur, so that's a pretty good reason not to run it in the first place.
Sanctimony isn't even good in general. Red decks have creatures in them which that card does nothing against. If you want an anti-red card, use Circle of Protection: Red or Story Circle.
To me, it seems like this deck wants to play disruption in the early game, play tempo with Geist in the midgame, and use Zur for later inevitability.
I agree, but I think an alternative method is to run Remand + Aven Mindcensor instead of the extra hand hate. My reasoning is that Tron is a big deck right now, and if you make those changes you can actually grind out games against them. Hand hate is not as good against them if you don't hit their early set up, which you can't stop if they're on the play (Expedition Map, specifically). They have so many ways to find their cards that hitting just 1 of them doesn't usually stop anything. Also, as I'm sure those of you running 7 discard spells have noticed, you get a lot of extra dead draws later on that Remand just cycles through.
I think hand disruption is a good idea for Zur, but I'm not sure if I'd want to run the 7 discard spells together with Meddling Mage and Gitaxian Probe. Let's assume we run a lot of stuff as bare minimums, but have the full Meddling Mage + Gitaxian Probe + 7 discard package:
I don't think you want Remand in a deck that runs this disruption already. But in giving up Remand, I think you're giving up one of the best disruptive cards in the format. My problem with Mage is there is so much diversity in kill spells, regardless of deck, that you will likely just have a 2/2 that they will kill when it becomes relevant to them. With Tidehollow, you can immediately affect their plans and effectively force them to use a removal spell on him (freeing up Zur from removal spells).
Here's a half-baked idea: What if we went with a mana denial plan? Combine Spreading Seas, Aven Mindcensor, and Ghost Quarter in the same list and a lot of decks get hit hard.Unfortunately, since we're 3 colors, we won't be able to run the full playset of Ghost Quarter.
Turning things blue messes with the mana bases of Jund, and Tron, and Mindcensor hurts Pod more than just hitting their fetchlands. UWR loses some removal when things become islands, but still has remand and Cryptic.
Given the amount of removal run by some decks, Jund in particular, Mindcensor may wind up as a 3-cost search hoser rather than a constant board presence. If we use Mindcensor like this, we'll need to support it with other instant-speed spells, which establishes Remand, Snapcaster, and Vendilion Clique as spots in the deck.
Incidentally, if we wind up being light on multicolored spells (running this package and no Tidehollow Sculler or Meddling Mage), we might be able to safely run 3 Ghost Quarter in the 24 lands.
I'm all for Aven Mindcensor since his ability shuts off Tron and Pod decks, while leaving a 2/1 flier to block Affinity and Infect. I'm not for Ghost Quarter, though. You need to get 4 lands at least in this deck, you don't want to attrition lands out. I like 2x Tectonic Edge for the random land you don't want to deal with (Eye of Ugin, random manland), but Ghost Quarter doesn't even attrition well. Even with Mindcensor you're not going to be doing much more than Tec edge, since you won't be able to use this interaction before turn 4.
So has anyone thought of dropping disfigure for Dead Weight? Basically trading instant speed for zur-tutorable removal with the added bonus that it shrinks what it doesn't kill to more managable proportions?
The thing is Zur can fetch Detention Sphere, which kills without questions. Disfigure is better than Dead Weight in a lot more scenarios, as it doesn't pump Goyf, can be used at instant speed (relevant against Scavenging Ooze), and can even make combat tricks. Dead Weight sticks around, sure, but most of the time I don't see its effect being worth the sorcery speed or Goyf pumping (Disfigure also turns on our Deathrite Shamans -2 life).
Has anyone tried Tallowisp to lower the curve + the shoals ? I've been trying to make a ghostdad deck in modern (on hold for now) and this is zur deck is basically it. With the right card draw I can see the disadvantage being sufficiently mitigated.
I don't see this being worth playing. You don't care so much to hunt up your enchantments as to sneak them in for free. On top of that, having 4 cards in the deck that turn your Tallowisp into anything other than a 1/3 seems like a cute but overall useless card.
About being unhappy to draw Bob vs Affinity and Burn:
I'm not that experienced playing with Bob, but I've heard wisdom from other sources saying to leave Bob in against aggro matchups because those matchups are where you most desperately need to draw into your sideboard hate and removal.
Of course the life loss sucks when you're on a fast clock, but it seems like hitting into an answer will offset that by slowing the clock significantly (e.g. drawing Disfigure a turn early and hitting someone's equipped creature).
Normally I agree but in the list he's playing he could easily hit himself for 3 or 4 off a Bob trigger. That's nigh unrecoverable unless you're already ahead. If you're on your back foot it's usually just game over. Affinity isn't a deck that Bob can chump block, so I would take him out. You want your sideboard, but if you hurt yourself you turn on their Blinkmoth Nexus as win conditions, since you're so close to being dead.
That said, Bob is just one of those "too good not to play," cards, like Deathrite Shaman. Doesn't necessarily fit in the deck but at the same time, Modern has some cards that are just too good.
Oh, I didn't even notice the Dark Confidants in there. That's kind of ballsy, especially with a total CMC of 63 and, more importantly, about 1/4 of the deck hitting you for 3+ on a flip. Has this not been a problem for you?
I could see him being just too good to cut in general, but those are some big hits to take.
I have 2 problems with the primer. The first one is that running Porphyryr Nodes is a really bad choice because this deck runs a lot of 1-2 power creatures. You'll be killing your own Zur, Geist, Snapcaster Mages, Aven Mindcensors, Meddling Mages, Tidehollow Scullers, and Deathrite Shamans almost all of the time. The second is why would you run Circles of Protection over Story Circle? That card might even me maindeckable. Other than that, nice work. It really helps me understand the deck.
I'm mainly listing enchantments that have interesting and unique effects at that point. In the current version that I play, you're right, Porphyry Nodes would be terrible. In a version that is more control oriented with less creatures, it is a conceivable sideboard option against decks like Affinity or Elves. You're probably right it's never worth it, I just wanted to have a bank of "maybe"s.
Forgot to add Story Circle to the list. Added it now. I've run it maindeck before but against a decent amount of decks you just don't want to see it. Also, getting multiple white mana isn't necessarily easy unless you focus on it at the very start of the game with your fetchlands.
I went 4-0 and 3-1 with this list in 2 dailies over the weekend (and completely bombed out of the premier event on sunday):
I beat all real decks (Jund, tron, UWR, delver, affinity, RG aggro, something else) except one was a weird mono green ramp deck. No idea what it was really doing but this list felt like the real deal.
I think maybe the mana base can be tweaked but everything else felt really solid.
Cool, I'll add your list to my primer. Looks like everyone's following the Gerry Thompson inspired list so far. Spreading Seas worth that many copies main?
Minor nitpick. I don't think that's LSV's take. It says that the decklist is of BlindNavigator's. Rather, LSV's just highlighting the deck, since it was doing well.
I'm starting to write an in depth Primer for this deck, I'll probably highlight 3 different styles (Meddling Mage + Probe, the list in the OP that goes heavy hand hate, and my list with more flash creatures + remand), and Gerry Thompson and LSV's articles on it. If anyone has anything else they would like added or discussed, I'll be sure to hit it, just let me know here or via PM.
His constructed rating is 1700, but his limited rating is 1630. So maybe he's not a pro.
Another strange manabase choice. This guy plays loose with his lands, Eiganjo protects Geist from Pyroclasms and Zur from direct burn (and both of them with random blocks), but Shizo can only really help your Geists. It's pretty decent at that, but man, I gotta say it's pretty greedy.
I assume you're asking about once you've played Zur, isn't it bad to not have an enchantment (like Phyrexian Arena or similar) to keep us ahead if they draw Supreme Verdict? The one thing I can say is, if they have it, they will have cast it during the 1 turn that Zur is active but hasn't done anything yet. If they didn't have it, that means they're top decking it, and I believe it's better to not pack in more utility enchantments in the maindeck to hedge against a possible topdeck, but if you wanted to throw 1 more in there I can't blame you for it. I've just played a lot of games where I draw something like Phyrexian Arena and wish it were a card that did something more immediately. You will have dead card draws with Steel of the Godhead already.
You also have a lot of ways to deal with Supreme Verdict before you play Zur, regardless of version you play. Tidehollow / Meddling Mage/ Vendilion Clique/ Hand hate can all let you stop it before it hits.
You don't think you want/need disruption main? I really liked the idea of Inquisition x4 and Thoughtseize x3, all the while still having a full playset of Paths and an additional 3x Disfigures.
Sidenote: Kinda surprised the list that went 6-0 didn't run any Remands. Meta-call I guess.
So I think it's kind of an either/or thing on disruption. If you're playing hand hate, you generally want less countermagic (since you want to throw your hand hate out there ASAP usually, which uses up your countermagic mana). I prefer running creatures that disrupt over other forms of disruption, mainly because they do more.
Running 7 flash creatures makes Remand easier to run and keep mana up for. The 3cmc fliers are great because they have some pretty nasty effects while providing good blockers against the decks that you don't need them as much against (Affinity and Infect both can be blown out by a flash flier to block an important creature). Aven Mindcensor in particular has one of the most powerful effects you can have right now, since he hurts Tron and Pod so incredibly badly, or even shorting midrange decks on mana with their fetchlands. But other than that, they speed up your clock, and you can play them at the opponent's end of turn if you didn't get to counter anything.
Hand hate helps Meddling Mage be more effective, but I don't like MM in general. Honestly, Meddling Mage is only good against Tron, and even then it's iffy. Every fair deck and combo deck has ways to kill/bounce him if it matters (including Tron, but they have fewer) to the point where Tidehollow is going to do more 95% of the time. I've played MM before and even with great calls on his card Modern is too full of removal with similar abilities but different names. Lightning Bolt, Lightning Helix, Path to Exile, Dismember, Abrupt Decay, Karn, Oblivion Stone, Pyroclasm, Whip Snare; these are all COMMON removal spells, and I can't think of a single deck that doesn't have multiple removal/bounce spells in it. At the very least, Tidehollow eats one of those and requires an answer to get their other one back. Sure MM can wear a Steel, but that's very seldom going to be game winning (believe me, I've tried).
So as for hand hate vs remand, I think you need to build your deck around it either way. Meddling Mage + hand hate + gitaxian probe or countermagic + flash creatures. I think playing more disruptive creatures gives you better game against more decks, mainly because if their ability does nothing you still get to attack with them.
What's your take on critical mass of point removal? I see that you have a solid number in the sideboard, but do you not want them game 1?
There are enough decks that blank your removal that you don't necessarily want that much removal. Right now I'm running 3x Path + 2x Far//Away + 1 Detention Sphere, and am pretty happy with it. The decks like UWR midrange, Tron, and random combos completely blank a lot of your removal, to the point where I don't want to run 7 instants + 3 Dspheres. I've never really had a problem running this many removal, but yes I do side in more versus certain decks.
What's your take on Sleight of Hand vs. Serum Visions? Does it matter?
Sleight is less of a control card. It basically is the difference between "now" and "a turn from now." In a deck that runs silver bullets (especially after sideboard), you're going to want to find those specific cards. Serum Visions digs 3 cards (4 if you count your next draw) whereas Sleight digs 2 cards (3 if you count your next draw), so you're going to have a better chance of finding what you want with Serum Visions. This is a huge deal when you're looking for something like Stony Silence, Rest in Peace, or Circle of Protection: Red. Sleight is better if you want to play the card you grab on that turn, but you're paying a mana already to find it, so may not have mana available to play it.
All of this said, I don't want to come off as saying my version is better. I'm sure both lists can be improved, but I have done a lot of testing on this deck and can hopefully help people before they get to common pitfalls.
I don't get your main deck though; it's so different compared to other Zur lists I've seen thus far. You're running so many creatures and next to no enchantments main. What's your reasoning? Is Zur *effectively* just for game 2 and 3 to pull out silver bullets?
Most of these cards are severely underwhelming unless you know your metagame. If you're in a normal distribution of Modern Decks, most of those enchantments are just not very good. What it basically breaks down into, are two situations against any deck.
1) You're doing your stuff as a control deck, and the opponent is not going to be able to race a 3-5 lifelinker and your smaller dudes, and has no "oops, I win" permanents to get rid of on the board. Now keep in mind, Zur can't swing until turn 4 or 5 in my deck, or turn 5 in the OP of this thread's deck. In this situation you want a Steel on Zur, or if you have Geist, the trigger resolves before blockers so you can swing with both for unblockable Geist.
Spreading seas hitting a manland has been discussed, but I have never been in a situation where Zur can't race a manland with Steels. It may be a situation that exists (Raging Ravine, maybe?), but remember toolboxes can't be there for every situation possible, and the ones that seldom/never happen should be treated as such. Against Tron, chances are by turn 5 you're not going to be doing much against them by hitting a single land of theirs. Running a singleton SS means you want to be fetching the thing with Zur, and at that point in the game you either lost because they assembled Tron and got through your countermagic, or are doing decently well stopping them from playing things.
The other thing has been discussed is getting advantage before Zur dies, or protecting Zur from dying. These both are a little weaker since Zur would always be killed before he can attack, he won't live if the opponent can stop it. That means you're going into the realm of "the opponent needs to top deck an answer immediately." I love Shielding Plax to death as a way of trying to protect Zur, but ultimately it just isn't worth it. Running a 3-mana-draw-1-card-if-they-don't-remove-your-targetted-creature spell had to be cut in the end (and I tried to make it live on in the sideboard, I really clung to that card for a long time). Once again, I believe it is better to just play as if they won't top deck their Path/Decree/Celestial Purge, because percentage-wise you're better off just finishing them quickly.
The one other thing to be said here, is just saving your cards in hand after you land Zur and he's swinging is often the right line of play. You can either save up mana for Remands or save guys for in case they do hit a board clearer. They won't be able to kill Zur in combat with Steel, so you should really be in the clear after he swings.
2) You're in trouble, and need to get rid of some stuff the opponent has. Detention Sphere is perfect for this situation just because it's the swiss army knife of removal. Tokens/creatures/planeswalkers/whatever, it hits it. Now I'm not against running something like Rest in Peace, Threads of Disloyalty, or Stony Silence in the maindeck, but you need to know your metagame is skewed towards one of these in advance, otherwise more often than not you'll be sitting with a dead card in hand.
Lastly, just to emphasize this, the more silver bullets you play, the more watered down the deck will be. You're already playing 2 Steel of the Godheads which are kind of useless without Zur or Geist on the field, Detention Sphere is pretty good when it comes to drawing it randomly, but it still is a 3 cost removal spell when you're playing decks like Affinity, that gets hit by Abrupt Decays when you're playing against Jund.
In conclusion, I play 3 enchantments because while necessary for Zur (and great with him, don't get me wrong), they aren't as good as other cards in the deck. 2 Steels are there just so you can be sure to get one on him if you drew one already. And yes, sometimes that means your deck is out of extra enchants to grab when you're on game 1 (After game 1 you almost always have extra goodies to put in against a deck), but I've rarely had to attack more than twice with Zur to finish a game out, win or lose.
I've taken out Spreading Seas completely. I just wouldn't fetch it up with Zur and stuff like Aven Mindcensor or Negate is better against more decks and usually is good enough against Tron.
Also, note that in my list I'm running 2x Tec edge which is different from others. Hitting their Eye of Ugin before it gives them tons of card advantage is important, and sometimes you'll win games just by killing their Tron.
If they have Tron assembled and Eye of Ugin, Shadow of Doubt stalls a turn. If you have Aven Mindcensor, it completely turns it off.
If they have Expedition Map or Sylvan Scrying, Shadow of the Doubt is just a counterspell. Aven Mindcensor stops not only that one, but all following ones.
Other than that, having 2 damage per turn is pretty great, since you want the game to end as early as possible. Yes, you'll get pyroclasmed, but you play him in response to a search effect so you're going to get value regardless.
And yes, I've been screwed by them finding the card they need in the top 4, but you have to play the probabilities if you want to win.
The first change I've made to the normal deck being run is taking out Deathrites again. Against a lot of decks you actually just don't need it, and against some of the decks you want it for, you'd rather be running Rest in Peace. I think this is the most metagame dependent choice I've made so far.
Aside from that, I tried running the no Remand version and really missed them. Hand hate and extra removal are great, but cycling while delaying the opponent for a turn and having a top deck that still draws you a card is too much to pass up. They are extremely useful for finding your 4th land by turn 4. I found myself not really caring about the Gitaxian Probes, so dropped 1 to fit in extra stuff. I also dropped a Clique because there are so many good things to play in this deck that getting an extra Clique stuck in your hand isn't worth the risk. Here's my current testing list that I'm going with:
1 Eiganjo Castle
1 Godless Shrine
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Island
4 Marsh Flats
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Plains
1 River of Tears
1 Swamp
2 Watery Grave
2 Tectonic Edge
3 Path to Exile
1 Far-Away
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Thoughtseize
3 Remand
3 Gitaxian Probe
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
4 Meddling Mage
4 Geist of Saint Traft
3 Zur the Enchanter
2 Steel of the Godhead
2 Detention Sphere
A note about the manabase:
I've lost games to having 2x River of Tears. Missing a land drop is already bad, but if it stops me from playing a Disfigure or Thoughtseize it's just a game loss sometimes. I've dropped it down to 1x since it's still good to have free untapped lands to play. I tried out the Darkslick Shores style lands and do not like them. We like hitting 4 mana and playing our 4 drops, and sometimes you already have lands like Creeping Tar Pit messing with your tempo, and also requiring a 4th untapped land to activate on turn 4. I think it's overall better to play shock duals, being this mana hungry.
Creeping Tar Pit is just better than Celestial Colonnade. It hits Planeswalkers way better and you don't need 6 lands to activate and use it.
Also, Eiganjo Castle hasn't been pulling much weight recently. It's a good land, though, since it makes colors and doesn't hurt you. I'm not necessarily considering removing it yet, but it has shown a bit of weakness so far.
Once again, everyone needs to be asking themselves, "is this card worth playing in a deck that can't sneak it into play?"
Playing Zur doesn't mean playing random enchantments just because they are enchantments. If you wouldn't pay 3 for a 2/2 vanilla flier or 5 for +2/+2 and flying, then it isn't good enough to be played period.
You need to think what these cards would do to help the deck.
Nighthowler looks fun, but what's he good against? Not Tron, Twin, or Storm decks. Not good against Jund, who run Deathrite Shaman + Scavenging Ooze. That leaves very few decks where it's even guaranteed to be a non-0/0. It isn't costed efficiently enough to run him without Zur, so that's a pretty good reason not to run it in the first place.
Sanctimony isn't even good in general. Red decks have creatures in them which that card does nothing against. If you want an anti-red card, use Circle of Protection: Red or Story Circle.
I agree, but I think an alternative method is to run Remand + Aven Mindcensor instead of the extra hand hate. My reasoning is that Tron is a big deck right now, and if you make those changes you can actually grind out games against them. Hand hate is not as good against them if you don't hit their early set up, which you can't stop if they're on the play (Expedition Map, specifically). They have so many ways to find their cards that hitting just 1 of them doesn't usually stop anything. Also, as I'm sure those of you running 7 discard spells have noticed, you get a lot of extra dead draws later on that Remand just cycles through.
I don't think you want Remand in a deck that runs this disruption already. But in giving up Remand, I think you're giving up one of the best disruptive cards in the format. My problem with Mage is there is so much diversity in kill spells, regardless of deck, that you will likely just have a 2/2 that they will kill when it becomes relevant to them. With Tidehollow, you can immediately affect their plans and effectively force them to use a removal spell on him (freeing up Zur from removal spells).
I'm all for Aven Mindcensor since his ability shuts off Tron and Pod decks, while leaving a 2/1 flier to block Affinity and Infect. I'm not for Ghost Quarter, though. You need to get 4 lands at least in this deck, you don't want to attrition lands out. I like 2x Tectonic Edge for the random land you don't want to deal with (Eye of Ugin, random manland), but Ghost Quarter doesn't even attrition well. Even with Mindcensor you're not going to be doing much more than Tec edge, since you won't be able to use this interaction before turn 4.
The thing is Zur can fetch Detention Sphere, which kills without questions. Disfigure is better than Dead Weight in a lot more scenarios, as it doesn't pump Goyf, can be used at instant speed (relevant against Scavenging Ooze), and can even make combat tricks. Dead Weight sticks around, sure, but most of the time I don't see its effect being worth the sorcery speed or Goyf pumping (Disfigure also turns on our Deathrite Shamans -2 life).
I don't see this being worth playing. You don't care so much to hunt up your enchantments as to sneak them in for free. On top of that, having 4 cards in the deck that turn your Tallowisp into anything other than a 1/3 seems like a cute but overall useless card.
Normally I agree but in the list he's playing he could easily hit himself for 3 or 4 off a Bob trigger. That's nigh unrecoverable unless you're already ahead. If you're on your back foot it's usually just game over. Affinity isn't a deck that Bob can chump block, so I would take him out. You want your sideboard, but if you hurt yourself you turn on their Blinkmoth Nexus as win conditions, since you're so close to being dead.
That said, Bob is just one of those "too good not to play," cards, like Deathrite Shaman. Doesn't necessarily fit in the deck but at the same time, Modern has some cards that are just too good.
I could see him being just too good to cut in general, but those are some big hits to take.
I'm mainly listing enchantments that have interesting and unique effects at that point. In the current version that I play, you're right, Porphyry Nodes would be terrible. In a version that is more control oriented with less creatures, it is a conceivable sideboard option against decks like Affinity or Elves. You're probably right it's never worth it, I just wanted to have a bank of "maybe"s.
Forgot to add Story Circle to the list. Added it now. I've run it maindeck before but against a decent amount of decks you just don't want to see it. Also, getting multiple white mana isn't necessarily easy unless you focus on it at the very start of the game with your fetchlands.
Cool, I'll add your list to my primer. Looks like everyone's following the Gerry Thompson inspired list so far. Spreading Seas worth that many copies main?
Thanks, noted.
Another strange manabase choice. This guy plays loose with his lands, Eiganjo protects Geist from Pyroclasms and Zur from direct burn (and both of them with random blocks), but Shizo can only really help your Geists. It's pretty decent at that, but man, I gotta say it's pretty greedy.
I assume you're asking about once you've played Zur, isn't it bad to not have an enchantment (like Phyrexian Arena or similar) to keep us ahead if they draw Supreme Verdict? The one thing I can say is, if they have it, they will have cast it during the 1 turn that Zur is active but hasn't done anything yet. If they didn't have it, that means they're top decking it, and I believe it's better to not pack in more utility enchantments in the maindeck to hedge against a possible topdeck, but if you wanted to throw 1 more in there I can't blame you for it. I've just played a lot of games where I draw something like Phyrexian Arena and wish it were a card that did something more immediately. You will have dead card draws with Steel of the Godhead already.
You also have a lot of ways to deal with Supreme Verdict before you play Zur, regardless of version you play. Tidehollow / Meddling Mage/ Vendilion Clique/ Hand hate can all let you stop it before it hits.
So I think it's kind of an either/or thing on disruption. If you're playing hand hate, you generally want less countermagic (since you want to throw your hand hate out there ASAP usually, which uses up your countermagic mana). I prefer running creatures that disrupt over other forms of disruption, mainly because they do more.
Running 7 flash creatures makes Remand easier to run and keep mana up for. The 3cmc fliers are great because they have some pretty nasty effects while providing good blockers against the decks that you don't need them as much against (Affinity and Infect both can be blown out by a flash flier to block an important creature). Aven Mindcensor in particular has one of the most powerful effects you can have right now, since he hurts Tron and Pod so incredibly badly, or even shorting midrange decks on mana with their fetchlands. But other than that, they speed up your clock, and you can play them at the opponent's end of turn if you didn't get to counter anything.
Hand hate helps Meddling Mage be more effective, but I don't like MM in general. Honestly, Meddling Mage is only good against Tron, and even then it's iffy. Every fair deck and combo deck has ways to kill/bounce him if it matters (including Tron, but they have fewer) to the point where Tidehollow is going to do more 95% of the time. I've played MM before and even with great calls on his card Modern is too full of removal with similar abilities but different names. Lightning Bolt, Lightning Helix, Path to Exile, Dismember, Abrupt Decay, Karn, Oblivion Stone, Pyroclasm, Whip Snare; these are all COMMON removal spells, and I can't think of a single deck that doesn't have multiple removal/bounce spells in it. At the very least, Tidehollow eats one of those and requires an answer to get their other one back. Sure MM can wear a Steel, but that's very seldom going to be game winning (believe me, I've tried).
So as for hand hate vs remand, I think you need to build your deck around it either way. Meddling Mage + hand hate + gitaxian probe or countermagic + flash creatures. I think playing more disruptive creatures gives you better game against more decks, mainly because if their ability does nothing you still get to attack with them.
There are enough decks that blank your removal that you don't necessarily want that much removal. Right now I'm running 3x Path + 2x Far//Away + 1 Detention Sphere, and am pretty happy with it. The decks like UWR midrange, Tron, and random combos completely blank a lot of your removal, to the point where I don't want to run 7 instants + 3 Dspheres. I've never really had a problem running this many removal, but yes I do side in more versus certain decks.
Sleight is less of a control card. It basically is the difference between "now" and "a turn from now." In a deck that runs silver bullets (especially after sideboard), you're going to want to find those specific cards. Serum Visions digs 3 cards (4 if you count your next draw) whereas Sleight digs 2 cards (3 if you count your next draw), so you're going to have a better chance of finding what you want with Serum Visions. This is a huge deal when you're looking for something like Stony Silence, Rest in Peace, or Circle of Protection: Red. Sleight is better if you want to play the card you grab on that turn, but you're paying a mana already to find it, so may not have mana available to play it.
All of this said, I don't want to come off as saying my version is better. I'm sure both lists can be improved, but I have done a lot of testing on this deck and can hopefully help people before they get to common pitfalls.
Being enchantment light is due to playing many many games to realize what is and isn't necessary. For example, in the maindeck I've run Threads of Disloyalty, Shielding Plax, Rest in Peace, Blind Obedience, Ghostly Prison, Declaration of Naught, Prison Term, Spreading Seas, Security Blockade, Phyrexian Arena, Luminarch Ascension, and many more fringe cards.
Most of these cards are severely underwhelming unless you know your metagame. If you're in a normal distribution of Modern Decks, most of those enchantments are just not very good. What it basically breaks down into, are two situations against any deck.
1) You're doing your stuff as a control deck, and the opponent is not going to be able to race a 3-5 lifelinker and your smaller dudes, and has no "oops, I win" permanents to get rid of on the board. Now keep in mind, Zur can't swing until turn 4 or 5 in my deck, or turn 5 in the OP of this thread's deck. In this situation you want a Steel on Zur, or if you have Geist, the trigger resolves before blockers so you can swing with both for unblockable Geist.
Spreading seas hitting a manland has been discussed, but I have never been in a situation where Zur can't race a manland with Steels. It may be a situation that exists (Raging Ravine, maybe?), but remember toolboxes can't be there for every situation possible, and the ones that seldom/never happen should be treated as such. Against Tron, chances are by turn 5 you're not going to be doing much against them by hitting a single land of theirs. Running a singleton SS means you want to be fetching the thing with Zur, and at that point in the game you either lost because they assembled Tron and got through your countermagic, or are doing decently well stopping them from playing things.
The other thing has been discussed is getting advantage before Zur dies, or protecting Zur from dying. These both are a little weaker since Zur would always be killed before he can attack, he won't live if the opponent can stop it. That means you're going into the realm of "the opponent needs to top deck an answer immediately." I love Shielding Plax to death as a way of trying to protect Zur, but ultimately it just isn't worth it. Running a 3-mana-draw-1-card-if-they-don't-remove-your-targetted-creature spell had to be cut in the end (and I tried to make it live on in the sideboard, I really clung to that card for a long time). Once again, I believe it is better to just play as if they won't top deck their Path/Decree/Celestial Purge, because percentage-wise you're better off just finishing them quickly.
The one other thing to be said here, is just saving your cards in hand after you land Zur and he's swinging is often the right line of play. You can either save up mana for Remands or save guys for in case they do hit a board clearer. They won't be able to kill Zur in combat with Steel, so you should really be in the clear after he swings.
2) You're in trouble, and need to get rid of some stuff the opponent has. Detention Sphere is perfect for this situation just because it's the swiss army knife of removal. Tokens/creatures/planeswalkers/whatever, it hits it. Now I'm not against running something like Rest in Peace, Threads of Disloyalty, or Stony Silence in the maindeck, but you need to know your metagame is skewed towards one of these in advance, otherwise more often than not you'll be sitting with a dead card in hand.
Lastly, just to emphasize this, the more silver bullets you play, the more watered down the deck will be. You're already playing 2 Steel of the Godheads which are kind of useless without Zur or Geist on the field, Detention Sphere is pretty good when it comes to drawing it randomly, but it still is a 3 cost removal spell when you're playing decks like Affinity, that gets hit by Abrupt Decays when you're playing against Jund.
In conclusion, I play 3 enchantments because while necessary for Zur (and great with him, don't get me wrong), they aren't as good as other cards in the deck. 2 Steels are there just so you can be sure to get one on him if you drew one already. And yes, sometimes that means your deck is out of extra enchants to grab when you're on game 1 (After game 1 you almost always have extra goodies to put in against a deck), but I've rarely had to attack more than twice with Zur to finish a game out, win or lose.