Why is this deck running Cavern of souls? I've been building this deck for a while now but I really don't see any reason to play it, we aren't a tribal deck and our creatures don't share that many creature types. I think I will personally replace it with something like reflecting pool or tainted field
I wouldn't call Cavern a "must have", but it's got it's use:
Naming "Spirit" not only protects the Commander, but also...
I played long without Academy Rector, so I wouldn't say it's mandatory at all. But it's still really good card which you can most likely fit in several other decks too, so getting one is good investment anyway!
Agree completely. I'll probably end up replacing Rector myself pretty soon.
I'd probably call it a "must have" if you run a couple enchantment based combos though.
Hey Blackjack. I ran (almost) exactly the same list as you, but recently I decided to cut Sanguine Bond, exquisite blood and academy rector. Read you've been considering this cut. Haven't been able to make these work in my rather spikey meta. Trying now with a few planeswalkers instead: Elspeth, Liliana. Also re-added Martial coup. We'll see how this works out.
I'm not running Bond/Blood in this deck, but I do in my Vish Kal. Did you mean to be in that thread?
Hey blackjack just wondering about your win conditions. So you usually let a combo present itself late into the game or go searching for a specific one?
I never set out to do anything specific and just play things out according to how the game develops. I usually like playing out long, "grindy" games.
Many games, it seems, are just endless loops of me trying to combo, getting stuffed, recurring something and trying again, getting disrupted, try again until something works. It used to be a lot easier to sneak things through, but I've been playing this deck so long, my group is getting pretty smart about stopping my combos.
Expanding on Argivian Find a bit, my use of it is almost exclusively because of how often I'm sitting with a hand + board that I could combo out with, but one artifact (Blasting Station, Nim Deathmantle, Ashnod's Altar) is sitting in the yard. I can play the Find at opponent's eot with one leftover mana, and combo out on my turn. With the Archaeologist, he has to survive going around the table once, and then cost me two mana during my turn. Much, much easier to disrupt. Plus the added benefit of recurring an enchantment like Angelic Renewal if I'm sitting on a Sun Titan combo.
It's not just about recurring an artifact, it's about instant, hard to disrupt artifact recursion into a combo all at once.
Hey just wondering what do you think about chromatic lantern and Thespian's Stage?
Both fine cards in here. I don't consider either to be a poor choice. The only reason they aren't in my build right now:
Lantern - I like this one better in 3+ color decks. I'm not crazy about rocks that cost more than 2, but those that I do use in here (Darksteel Ingot, Coalition Relic, Orzhov Keyrune) I feel have a bit of an edge in value over the Lantern.
Stage - I'd probably run if I didn't already have Vesuva.
So what do you all think about the new Artifact in M14?
Strionic Resonator
Artifact (R)
:2mana:, :symtap:: Copy target triggered ability you control. You may choose new targets for the copy. (A triggered ability uses the words "when", "whenever" or "at".)
Its tines cannot be rung by mere physical force. Only magic of great power can start its eldritch resonance.
Not that I don't like them, I use them in other decks, although Necro always makes me nervous. Tutor I didn't want to shell out the extra money, Damnation will probably go in if I decide to add another sweeper.
What do you guys usually aim for with rector? Angelic renewal? Necropotence? It's such an enchantment light deck that unless I've got the suntitan in hand I never know what else to use her on.
Not sure if someone's mentioned this or not before. But in your explanaition of cards in the deck for each package, you say Sun Titan can recur spells. You said it gets back Debt and Command. It does not do that. It only can return permanents.
Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed (not Titan)...... is what that should have read, thanks for catching that. I fixed where it said recurs Command but I couldn't find where it said that about Debt. I'll keep looking, if you could give me the exact location, I'd appreciate it.
Here's the deck as it looks right now. Actually now I've got it laid down in front of me I can see some pretty weird choices myself. Probably deserve some ridicule for this one
Not at all.
Looking over your list, I see very little that I would call a poor choice. Disenchant, Sculler and Unhallowed Pact (and Rupture Spire) are pretty high on the cut list, imo, but the rest of the cards, taken as individual choices, are solid.
What you'll need to do in order to adjust to your playgroup (besides adjusting to a more "all at once win" playstyle), is drop some of the slower stuff (like Debtors' Knell), and put in a bit more fast tutoring. I can highly recommend Demonic Tutor and Entomb.
So i guess my question is what can this deck do to build a strong board quickly or how can it disrupt players long enough for me to catch up?
Against experienced players with fast combo decks, you generally won't get to have a "strong board position" and do what you want very often, and "disrupting" the same multiplayer table is not only nearly impossible, but also makes you a target for the attempt.
With that said, read everything Xenphire said several times, it's spot on.
With a playgroup like you've described, you're probably going to need to adjust your build to be combo heavy, as a slower, "grindy" game is going to be a lot tougher to win with at such a table. Play politics, defend yourself, combo out. You'll probably have to take out some of the bigger, more "fun" stuff
Another option is to change the deck into Orzhov + green. I don't really want to steer anyone away from Ghost Dad, but the important thing is that you enjoy your deck. Ghave, Guru of Spores decks can be insanely competitive combo machines, and Karador, Ghost Chieftain decks can play a lot like this one with added fast ramp and fatties (I have a Karador deck myself). If you wish to go that direction, I have a couple threads bookmarked I can recommend. Ghost Council requres more finesse and politics than the green added commanders.
I wouldn't call Cavern a "must have", but it's got it's use:
Naming "Spirit" not only protects the Commander, but also...
All three of which are combo pieces that very often can win the game as long as they can actually hit the battlefield.
Agree completely. I'll probably end up replacing Rector myself pretty soon.
I'd probably call it a "must have" if you run a couple enchantment based combos though.
I'm not running Bond/Blood in this deck, but I do in my Vish Kal. Did you mean to be in that thread?
I never set out to do anything specific and just play things out according to how the game develops. I usually like playing out long, "grindy" games.
Many games, it seems, are just endless loops of me trying to combo, getting stuffed, recurring something and trying again, getting disrupted, try again until something works. It used to be a lot easier to sneak things through, but I've been playing this deck so long, my group is getting pretty smart about stopping my combos.
Not uncommon at all.
Expanding on Argivian Find a bit, my use of it is almost exclusively because of how often I'm sitting with a hand + board that I could combo out with, but one artifact (Blasting Station, Nim Deathmantle, Ashnod's Altar) is sitting in the yard. I can play the Find at opponent's eot with one leftover mana, and combo out on my turn. With the Archaeologist, he has to survive going around the table once, and then cost me two mana during my turn. Much, much easier to disrupt. Plus the added benefit of recurring an enchantment like Angelic Renewal if I'm sitting on a Sun Titan combo.
It's not just about recurring an artifact, it's about instant, hard to disrupt artifact recursion into a combo all at once.
Glad to hear it's falling into place for you. What kind of build are you running?
Both fine cards in here. I don't consider either to be a poor choice. The only reason they aren't in my build right now:
Lantern - I like this one better in 3+ color decks. I'm not crazy about rocks that cost more than 2, but those that I do use in here (Darksteel Ingot, Coalition Relic, Orzhov Keyrune) I feel have a bit of an edge in value over the Lantern.
Stage - I'd probably run if I didn't already have Vesuva.
Wow..... my head hurts just thinking about this.
That could be sweet. I don't like the thought of non-swamps much, but it would be a pretty cool little combo.
Early = Usually Phyrexian Arena or Necropotence.
In a defensive pinch, I've used it for Faith's Fetters.
Otherwise, I try to wait 'til I can combo by fetching Angelic Renewal or Necromancy.
My build has become light enough on enchants that I often consider dropping Rector.
Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed (not Titan)...... is what that should have read, thanks for catching that. I fixed where it said recurs Command but I couldn't find where it said that about Debt. I'll keep looking, if you could give me the exact location, I'd appreciate it.
Not at all.
Looking over your list, I see very little that I would call a poor choice. Disenchant, Sculler and Unhallowed Pact (and Rupture Spire) are pretty high on the cut list, imo, but the rest of the cards, taken as individual choices, are solid.
What you'll need to do in order to adjust to your playgroup (besides adjusting to a more "all at once win" playstyle), is drop some of the slower stuff (like Debtors' Knell), and put in a bit more fast tutoring. I can highly recommend Demonic Tutor and Entomb.
Here are the links to a couple Orzhov + green primer threads that I like.
Karador - http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=334655
Ghave - http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=332575
Against experienced players with fast combo decks, you generally won't get to have a "strong board position" and do what you want very often, and "disrupting" the same multiplayer table is not only nearly impossible, but also makes you a target for the attempt.
With that said, read everything Xenphire said several times, it's spot on.
With a playgroup like you've described, you're probably going to need to adjust your build to be combo heavy, as a slower, "grindy" game is going to be a lot tougher to win with at such a table. Play politics, defend yourself, combo out. You'll probably have to take out some of the bigger, more "fun" stuff
Another option is to change the deck into Orzhov + green. I don't really want to steer anyone away from Ghost Dad, but the important thing is that you enjoy your deck. Ghave, Guru of Spores decks can be insanely competitive combo machines, and Karador, Ghost Chieftain decks can play a lot like this one with added fast ramp and fatties (I have a Karador deck myself). If you wish to go that direction, I have a couple threads bookmarked I can recommend. Ghost Council requres more finesse and politics than the green added commanders.
Ouch.