MTG Salvation

My decision was also between Shattered Angel and Master Splicer, and it comes down to this:

A) - You take angel and the guy next to you see master splicer as the best card in the pack, so he drafts it.
B) - You take the master splicer and the guy next to you see the angel as the best card in the pack, BUT there is a chance she/he picked his rare bomb and doesnt want to commit to white that much now so he drafts something else (probably Noxious revival)

So the golem is the safest draft

well, my last run with the UR version was yesterday aaaannnnddd.....

It was awfull T_T
I was feeling a bit sick and by some weird reason I kept playing very sloppy.

Round 1 - Bantblade (1-2)

G1- I draw 36 cards from my deck before reaching the first ascension, I get it waste my entire hand to get PA online and I topdeck a preordain , Draw bolt and Red sun zenith (used before to burn a t2 stoneforge in my turn3) I play the bolt at end of turn and Zenith away the 14 left on my opponent.

G2- he gets a t4 troll and beats me with an uncountered sword ( used the mana leak to avoid a JtMS landing, my bad because I had several burn cards)

G3- 2 flashfreezes protects the same hawk from getting equipped with SoBaM x2 and he mills me before I can get him into burn range.

Round 2 - EldraziTitans (o-2)

g1- one manaleak is not enough for his ramping, I manage to burst a joraga but wurmcoil engine comes in turn 5 anyway

g2- Primeval titan gets eye of ugin and then he tutors ulamog I counter and 2 summoning traps finds a wall and emrakul

Round 3 - lame bye
Round 4 - Tezzeret blade (2-0)

G1 - he sticks a sword but I kept burning creatures, treasure hunt gets PA online with Mountain open for the bolt and he drops a tezzeret and make a 5/5 sword, bolt burns the sword and I win out of card advantage.

G2 - we are both very tired because we have a bad day inthe tourny and we both start chatting about quitting and going to eat. I manaleak a pilgrims eye and he concedes and asks me why did I counter the pilgrim, I say that he missed his t3 landdrop and he says it is the first time the pilgrim gets countered.

Well, thats it- I am moving to the BR version starting monday.

I got up to 1800 from my 1670 with my UR PA build, most of the points coming from my 5th place in the NatQual - So I say I had a succesfull run with the deck. I learned a lot about the meta, I hate that G instant that destroys PA and I believe that the deck took his toll, I asked my girlfriend to write goodluck phrases on my 4x PA and my 2x Zeniths one day before the Natqual so I am keeping those cards instead of returning the entire deck to my team

Overall very fun deck and it was always a surprise (expect for those 2 instances where I faced a Rug that had, flashfreezes, ratchetbomb AND the G instant

Quote from hieshin431

The one problem I kept running into is the mana cost. There are 9 cards in the mainboard with mana cost 4 or higher,

I saw the same issue with the deck as well I am probably raising the land count

Quote from hieshin431

- The Diabolic Tutors work great though. I was worried about not having enough card draw when I first played it, but having the tutors helps fix that issue.

This had me worried as well, I see now that the tutors do wonders for the deck

Quote from hieshin431

My suggestions would be
+1 Koth of the Hammer
-1 Consuming Vapors

If I add a planeswalker to the main it will probably be liliana since it helps with the overall theme of the deck. But consuming vapors is most probable the one that will be going out.

Quote from hieshin431

Also, you have 61 cards. I would only run 60 and remove a consuming vapors

I always like to start the testing with 61 cards in the deck to increase the importance of mulliganing at some point I make the cut to 60 but not anytime soon

Quote from hieshin431

Also RedZone, in your deck I would sideboard Memoricide

This is most likely happening in the first "fix" of the deck after the testing. I will play 10 games with the decklist then make changes. the most obvious ones will be including at least 2x tectonic edge on the main, upping the land count and adding several sideboard cards that are missing. Memoricide beings one of them

Quote from Thought-About-Writing

How sick is this card with conundrum sphinx. Also why would we bother with surgical extraction and cards like that off the bat. Do you have any idea what the format will look like? A good philosopher once said "Look where you throw the knife"

Also boarding into a two card combo makes perfect sense. Not like they won't be boarding in flashfreeze's, Negate's, Purge, random Naturalize effects, and the green vindicate. Transformational sideboards are meant to avoid hate cards.

I think that the magic number of phyrexian spells youcan run is 4 or 5-
as in 4x answer or 3x utility and 2x utility -without having to worry about lifeloss and/or dmg

conundrum sphinx indeed enjoys the new green phyrexian spell. and the side combo is nice, at least its cheaper and easier than shape anew side plan-

Also, I dont see aggro decks making the cut anymore with nph. Midrange will finally exist to combat both valakut and cawblade, and aggro versions of decks like boros and/or goblins will update to a more stable plan. dont get me wrong, Its not that aggro ceased to exist, its just that I dont see aggro in the top8 for at least 5 or 6 big events with NPH

again, im still not adding NPH cards until set is released I know there are cards from NPH that makes the deck better, and again, I am using this deck main and side (with a few twitches on the main) from a previous poster in this thread that did good. Credits to him if he still around PA.deck thread - the decklist is for general reference and doesnt include NPH cards because i havent test any cards yet, heck, i havent tested the deck itself.

Once testing comes and Nph arrives I will be featuring the BR version of it conversion to NPH, I know you guys @terrapin guts, @thought about writing @fuxalt will take care of the UR version of it, so, more testing = less time on each deck branch.

Edit: and when I said I liked that version, i was talking about the BR version (rite now, more vulnerable than the UR version) not the deceiver + splinter twin combo - the combo seems ok, but the deck already relies on finding one card, the need to find even more can be, well, deceiving. - however if you guys manage a sidedeck with that combo, im all up for testing it

actually it doesn´t have any new card yet, we have got a month or so until NPH releases and this month will be pure testing, I know I will have the U side of the deck in hand in case the deck doesnt fit my playstyle (quite improbable, since this version feels even more as a deck control)

but as far as NPH is released, posting decklists with NPh cards is just wishfull thinking, I can´t try the deck in mws because everyone will be playing nph already and I have yet to try the non-nph version to see what it wants and when.

But yes, I do like this version a lot, I know for a fact that they dont expect pyromancer ascension in g1 and this colors have access to a real sidedeck that can actually survive without the PA (not that I am removing them, dat cardadvantage) but most likely I will end up on a more conservative side focusing on protecting the PA or alternate big threats

Allright, I have watched the entire spoiler of NPH and this FNM is the last one I am playing the UR version, as I feel that a BR version with NPH would add both sustainability and inevitability. So I will post results for tomorrows last testing for those staying in the UR version, but after that I am going to start running this baby based on previous comment of this same thread:


There are key cards that come with NPH that are obviously going in but I need to know what to take out and why the BR version works. Good luck on the FNM

Edit: fixed, changed consume spirit for consuming vapors - dam night hours

as I see this deck core I notice that what you are trying to do is to get 1 or 2 dmg per turn from any permanent.
Furnace+Awakening zone = 2 dmg
cunning sparkmage = 1dmg
mortarpod = 1dmg

The red hero steals so many games is not even funny and masticore is there for the 4dmg ability - the only card suggested so far that matches the 1/2 dmg per turn without effort is raid bombardment.


-
the things that the decklist that went top 1 has is depth, with 4x raging ravine and 2x swords an unanswered creature or a massive removal doesnt put you in a bad position, heck even if you get your furnace destroyed you have several other win conditions that are not prone to interrupt your main strategy

Koth looks good on the main, as well as 1x or 2x mark of mutiny. They seem very versatile and taking an opponent off guard is a must with this deck, hence the "no creatures, useless removal" nature of the deck.

I usually dont have that hard match against control, pyroclasm (or slagstorm) definitively goes out against any version of cawblade, UWb being the most dangerous.

The archive trap plan still exists but is the weakest sideboard option imo, the strongest sb option being mark of mutiny and teetering peeks, and/or spell pierce, however the pyromancer ascension is a highly customizable deck so you can make the deck (and sideboard) match the style of your play.

I still like big creatures and volition reins in sb for game 2 and 3, but again, thats because of my playstyle, being UR control my management of the deck, not a combo deck perse

Still, we do agree that any version of it its a terrible deck to bring if your meta is UB and/or valakut. I hope NPH brings something worth for main

Quote from FuxAlt

Black Sun's Zenith is a 1 for 1. dead card in the original build

Day of Judgment is a 1 for 1. - dead card on the original build

Wall of Omens is taken out by a single burn spell if they block. It is -1 CA, though. Still, not too hard to deal with, and you'll regain that card after you remove it. Also. Kicked Burst Lightning. -dead card in the original build

Grave Titan beats up on any version of this deck if it sticks. Notice the IF. You shouldn't ever tap out after turn 2-3 anyways. -you can into the roil and pyroclasm- and you may even receive an incoming 10 dmg from him if you are confident that you are winning next turn and dont rely on creatures (newly fresh tokens) block your win con

Wurmcoil Engine beats any version of this deck if it sticks. Again. IF. By the time they can drop this guy, you should have the win within sight and a grip of cards to take care of it.- Red sun zenith removes the token production as well as closes the gap of 1 or 2 succesfully attacks with him

Kor Firewalker also beats up on any version of this deck, but it dies if they block Neurok Commando. No lost CA. - speed bump yes but definitively doesnt beat the original build, and doesnt stop you from drawing cards because of its mere pressence

Phyrexian Crusader also beats up on any version of the deck. Pro red creatures do not make a blue creature bad. - they do IF the only removal you got is red and your only card draw engine is preordain + neurok

Kuldotha Rebirth - See Spell Pierce and Arc Trail / Pyroclasm. spell pierce stops it yes, point for you? - but arc trail still leaves one token behind to block neurok

Priests of Norn - Grasp at straws much? I haven't seen a successful deck running him yet. -monowhite infect runs this, yes it was a lame example but only to demonstrate the issue of having to deal with random rogue decks even now and then eating your card draw engine

Celestial Colonnade - By the time they can activate him, you have an active ascension and some burn or a Burst Lightning to kick. -and still you need to kill it for neurok to hit, while on the original build, you can take up to 3 attacks without worrying

Gatekeeper of Malakir - No argument here. Still, its not like he sees a whole ton of play in anything but vamps which is an easy matchup anyways. -dead card in the original build

Avenger of Zendikar - I already told you Valakut was a bad matchup. Still, aside from Summoning Trap shenanigans, this should never resolve anyways. Rug lists are running this guy as 1x-again a stretch yes, but still an important one

I'm lead to believe that you don't even actually play this deck. - I play it, see my sig =) also check post 65 on this very same thread my first incursion on the deck and since then I have been improvinng and testing several builds + answers

Answers in bold =) - again, I agree to disagree with you

@Fuxalt - since I notice that you swear to this guy, I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

I am, however, letting everyone else know that these commonly played cards

• Black Sun´s Zenith
  
• Day of Judgement
  
• Wall Of Omens
  
• Wurmcoil engine
  
• Grave titan
  
• kor firewalker
  
• phyrexian crusader
  
• kuldotha rebirth
  
• Priests of Norn
  
• celestial colonnade
  
• gatekeeper of malakir
  
• Avenger of Zendikar
  

are somewhat difficult to deal with in the neurok build, because they either a) kill neurok - b) blocks neurok + needs another card to be killed, thus providing card disadvantage - c) Hard to deal with in game 1 because of the absence of pyroclasm - or d)have pro red, making the into the roil the onl answer possible (kor firewalker n phyrexian crusader are mostly sideboard but still an issue)

If you want to play neurok thats fine, but as posted in previous pages, the deck actually doesnt rely on the active pyro that much since the arrival of Red Sun´s zenith.

Quote from FuxAlt

It is very linear and easy to disrupt due to only having one very easily removed win condition.

-How about Sphinx of Jwar Isle x2 ? - its a bigger better body that doesnt die to pyroclasm and allows you a more reliable second win con
Edit: sphinx is affected by even less cards on the above list =)

Don't mind me, but playing neurok commando in main cripples the deck against the decks that we have good match, in this case aggro, by not playing pyroclasm in the main, or by loosing one card to it. We want to win always game 1 against aggro.

Neurok commando plan belongs on the side, why are you including a plan B mainboard if thats what the side is for? Are people playing leyline of sanctity on the main? or revoke existence? flashfreeze perhaps? NO

the only main that we have problems against is acidic slime, and even then chances are you are dealing against a valakut or a eldrazi deck, which our odds are quite weak on the main.

play plan B to decrease the odds of winning but drawing a ☺☺☺☺ ton of cards? - i prefer winning by a mile

Now, you move him to the side. And you play him in game 2, guess what, opponent doesn't have removals anymore, and his shroud is useless, we can find another efficient beater. even conundrum sphinx beats hawk+sword. Neurok commando may be a good card but I think it doesnt belong to pyromancer ascension.

At least thats my reasoning, I find myself more comfortable having a auto-bye against aggro, a decent chance against cawblade and a terrible game against primeval titans on the main.

I like archivetrap plan, but I find it unrealiable
I also like mark of mutiny and teetering peeks, but since I dont play see beyond anymore I can't return a teetering peeks
I play 4x Negate + 2x corrupted conscience

The above 3 plans are WAY better than neurok commando, they deal much better with our boogeyman valakut, sorry, but I think that if we are playing neurok commando then pyromancer ascension is a poor choice ,I would prefer a UR midrange that doesnt rely on pyromancer to do half the job of dealing with the eternal bloodghast and or wall of omens people are packing now a days and/or calcite snapper to take advantage of the lack of blockers

Edit: Also, burst lightning and Into the roil are probably the weakest cards in the deck, but that doesn't mean that they need to go away, they are your first side-out options yes, but still having into the roil in the main deals with a lot of problems. I like mind control on the main as a 1x, thats seems legit, I would prefer corrupted conscience but the point is the same =)

I have been running 2x spreading speas in he main, and it has been amazing so far. Went 3-1 in FNM yesterday - the one that beat me was a second round kuldotha with god hand openings that ended up going 2-2.

The archive trap from side is just for the list that are playing see beyond on the main board, because as soon a trap is revealed in any fashion (duress, goblin guide, treasure hunt) the opponent is trying to avoid the trap until he/she can win without concern.

If you still run see beyond a trap plan is decent idea against most of the field, but not the aggro decks, you need yet more burn for those.

against vampires, kuldotha, WWquest I usually side out the manaleaks and add staggershocks from the side

against cawblade,
I take out pyroclasm (4x in mainboard, faster than slagstorm) and put in Negate (4x in side, replacing flashfreeze), I also take out 4x burst lightning and put 2x corrupted conscience, 2x consecrated sphinx from side

against valakut
I take out pyroclasm and put in Negate (4x in side), I also take out 2x into the roils, the 1x of red sun Zenith and put 1x tectonic edge and 2x corrupted conscience from the side.

against RDW - I just take into the roil out for the negates

I personally dont like the archive trap idea, because its a dead card in your hand until the turn that you are about to use it. I prefer a more reactive kind of playing. Archive trap can grant you a no-pyromancer win yes, but meanwhile you have 1 or 2 cards in hand that does nothing against non-valakut decks that have more than 35 cards in the library.

I definitively prefer the control side, or at least the titan side: