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  • 1

    posted a message on [Primer] G/W Auras (Bogle)
    Quote from Joban8 »
    So it's Academy Ruins for enchantments, thoughts?

    Not fun to see in your opening hand, but maybe it has a place in the SB?
    We can't afford to play any colorless lands so this would have to go in a spell slot and it doesn't really seem worth it. We're quite limited on mana so very difficult to return something and play it in the same turn even. Just way too slow and don't see many cases where this would win you a game where a powerful aura like Unflinching Courage wouldn't do better.

    Also new removal spell:



    Could potentially be interesting if you want more removal spells than 4 Path to Exile. Only working if you fetch a basic land is a bit awkward though, so who knows. Also not great against Ghost Quarter or other basic land destruction.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • 1

    posted a message on [Primer] G/W Auras (Bogle)
    I agree that Path to Exile is essential since it's by far the best card against Izzet Phoenix and useful against almost anything. It's very needed against any sort of Affinity deck and it's good against random creature aggro and Burn. Even in matchups where it's weak like GBx, Dredge and Tron, it's still far from useless. I would strongly recommend running 4 in the main deck.

    Leyline maindeck doesn't seem great right now, with GBx lists not being very popular. In my opinion maindeck Leylines should only be considered in very specific metas that are heavy on GBx, GDS and Burn.

    Regarding sideboard cards, Stony Silence is always a great choice since it's good both against Affinity/Hardened Scales but also Whir Prison/Lantern/Tron and various rogue artifact based decks. Suppression Field doesn't seem very useful, where exactly would you want it and aren't there stronger cards for those matchups? Worship is a terrible card in Bogles as we cannot reliably get to 4 mana and every deck has ways around it anyway, especially post sideboard. Against the few decks where a hexproof creature+Worship means game over, they usually couldn't deal with just a Daybreak Coronet anyway.

    It's kind of boring but currently I don't see much reason to deviate from the standard:
    4 Leylines
    2-3 Gaddock Teeg
    2-3 Rest in Peace
    2-3 Stony Silence
    2-3 Disenchant effects
    0-3 personal choice

    Dromoka's Command or Dismember can be useful as removal spell 5-6. Damping Sphere can be useful against Tron and Storm, but I don't think it's good against Izzet Phoenix so doubtful if it has a place in the sideboard. In general, it's better to have strong, specific cards over all-round mediocre cards. The mediocre cards tend to not upgrade the deck much since taking out auras hurts so much.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • 1

    posted a message on [Primer] G/W Auras (Bogle)
    Quote from icehippo »
    I never understood having cards like Deglamer and Unravel in the sideboard. What is it mainly going after. I understand that you could target your own things but can't see 4 sideboard slots just for that. Can anyone give reasoning for it?
    It's normal to have 2-4 artifact/enchantment removal in the sideboard as they're useful against a multitude of decks. Affinity, Tron, Infect, Lantern, Whir Prison, and various decks where you can expect some problematic cards after sideboard (like Blood Moon or Worship).

    The typical choices for this slot includes Nature's Claim, Natural State and Seal of Priomordium, all of which comes with advantages and disadvantages. The choice of Deglamer and Unravel is specifically targeted against the Whir Prison deck as neither Chalice of the Void nor Welding Jar can stop it. Whether this is correct when Whir Prison is just a small percentage of the meta is very doubtful, but there's little doubt that's his reason.

    Whether or not you want Rest in Peace against Izzet Phoenix depends a lot on how many Snapcaster Mage, Pteramander and Pyromancer Ascension they run. They're not worth bringing in solely because of Phoenix, but I often feel like it's still worth it since we can spare some slots and we don't really have much else to bring in.

    Regarding Tron, it can be a bit tough but it's not so awful. We do have a fast clock and they won't have a turn 4 Ugin all that often while a turn 3 Karn/Wurmcoil can often be beaten. Post sideboard we have a lot of strong cards that can lock them down quite well. More problematic than you would expect at first glance is Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger as it gets around all of our hate and exiles it. It's not fast but our sideboard cards often slow us down too, so they will have time for it often.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • 2

    posted a message on [Primer] G/W Auras (Bogle)
    Quote from Pedro Rocha »
    I'm playing Bogles a lot... but it seems so fragile in so many matches for me. Sometimes it seems to need more evasion... sometimes it seems to need more power... sometimes it seems to need more protection... sometimes it seems to need more consistency... sometimes it seems to need more interaction... and in the end there are not enough auras to fill all these blank spaces. Don't get me wrong, I love the deck, but it can be frustrating here and there.

    1) What about Sigarda's Aid? I know Bogles doesn't really need instant speed, but I think this could really make the combat more aggressive once the opponent doesn't know what we are about to cast to make our creatures even more monstrous. Sigarda's Aid would even make Helm of the Gods viable.

    2) Is there any powerful list of Bogles that plays Arcanum Wings combo? Aura Swap ability + some powerful but high CMC auras (Spectra Ward, Eldrazi Conscription, etc) seems tempting.

    3) What about Umbra Mystic? It’s ability grants totem armor to all our auras! For 2W, It’s presence on the field is great.
    The problem with most of the things you suggest, is that it completely ruins what little consistency the deck has. You talk about wanting more consistency but that would not be the effect of the cards you suggest.

    To get back to the basics, most "fair" decks are generally trying to draw a good mixture of lands and spells. If you draw too many spells, you won't have lands to cast them. If you draw too few spells, your opponent can trade 1-for-1 and outvalue you. Bogles takes this to the next level by requiring three separate components to function. Lands, creatures and auras. If you draw too few of one of these components, it's hard to win, and the opponent can focus his answers on the type you are lacking.

    Cards like Sigarda's Aid and Helm of the Gods don't fill any of these three roles. They introduce a 4th role, cards that are only good if you already drew the other 3 types. Playing cards like that over additional creatures and/or auras will make the deck more inconsistent and vulnerable to answers. It's much easier to starve the deck from Auras if you replaced a bunch of them with utility cards like this. This is the reason why cards like Spirit Link and Keen Sense have always been kind of questionable.

    Regarding the Arcanum Wings combo, it's simply too inconsistent. Both Arcanum Wings and Eldrazi Conscription are almost dead if you don't draw both, we have no good way of finding them, and even if you do they're still easily answerable. Against any deck that can't answer the combo, playing Rancor+Daybreak Coronet is likely good enough too. 3 mana is by no means a certain thing with this deck, frequently we have to operate on two lands which doesn't work with the combo.

    Regarding cards like Umbra Mystic and Nomad Mythmaker, they're way too easy to answer and do nothing when answered. A general rule in modern is that any creature that gains neither value nor tempo against a removal spell is unplayable. In Bogles cards like that are particularly terrible because they turn on the otherwise dead removal spells. Even for cards that do provide tempo or value, 3 mana is still almost always too much for this deck and 4 mana for things like Wrath of God is simply unthinkable.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • 1

    posted a message on [Primer] G/W Auras (Bogle)
    There aren't really a lot of interesting auras that aren't already legal in modern. Briar Shield is kind of the only thing that seems useful. Enlightened Tutor could be useful to fetch sideboard cards but it seems very unlikely to be reprinted. Sterling Grove is a possibility that is reprintable but I'm unsure if it would be worth running.

    We're probably gonna have to hope mostly for new cards rather than reprints. I do believe that they'll make sure almost every archetype gets at least one interesting card though, so we'll see what they come up with.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • 1

    posted a message on [Primer] G/W Auras (Bogle)
    I also played this deck in GP Stockholm and finished with a respectable 12-3 record for a 19th place. Unfortunately I lost the round 15 win-and-in so missed out on top 8. All three of the losses were against UW Miracles, which is somewhat concerning, but I also beat it twice in the tournament. Terminus is a huge problem but it's also almost the only relevant card in the matchup. I was frequently able to reload and overcome the first Terminus and in several duels I won through 2 of them. All in all I think this matchup is fairly close to 50-50. One thing to note is that you need to keep Spirit Mantles post sideboard to get through Timely Reinforcements. Take out Path to Exile instead, as they are even more useless than against the old UW control.

    In addition to this I beat GDSx2, Bridgevine, Jund, Affinity, Mardu Pyromancer, Bogles, Titanshift and Bant Spirits. I won't recap every game because it's not super interesting and to be honest I don't remember all. Some interesting notes:

    I basically gave away one duel against Bant Spirits. I started out with turn 1 Bogle and he had turn 1 Mausoleum Wanderer. At this point I had only 1 more land in hand along with Kor Spiritdancer, Rancor and 2xDaybreak Coronet. I played the Spiritdancer figuring that between the next draw step and Spiritdancer trigger, I should be able to draw another land. Of course I did not, and as a result he was able to Spell Queller both of my Coronets (once off a Collected Company) and counter all the Path to Exiles with Mausoleum Wanderers. If I just play Rancor and pass on turn 2, the next turn's Daybreak Coronet will just straight up win me the game.

    I also gave away one duel in the mirror which is especially embarrassing. I was on the draw and we both had a turn 1 Bogle. She was stuck on 1 land and I just had a Dryad Arbor so we played 1 aura each on turn 2. On turn 3 I still had no third land but I played a Spirit Mantle to be able to reduce damage by blocking (her bogle was 5/3 at that point). However, assuming she had any 1-mana aura (exceedingly likely given the lack of lands) this would not have been enough as I would die over 2 turns anyway. I was at 10 after 3x Canopy use and 2+5 damage from the Bogle. Much better would have been to play a 1 mana aura using Dryad Arbor, then EoT Path my own Arbor to get double white for Daybreak Coronet. This would have beat almost any play from her side, especially given that I could follow up with the Spirit Mantle next turn.

    In game 1 against Bridgevine he was on the play and on turn 3 he attacked me with Greater Gargadon, Vengevine and four 2/2 zombies. I was able to chump the Gargadon with a Bogle, kill one zombie with my Bogle+Ethereal and take 10 damage to go from 14 to 4. On my turn I could play Spider Umbra+Daybreak Coronet to attack for 8 gaining to 12, and at this point he couldn't even attack as Greater Gargadon would die to the 8/8 first strike lifelink and his other units would not deal enough damage. I guess this highlights how good this matchup is, that even with such a crazy start on the play I was able to win on turn 4.

    Against Titanshift post sideboard he had Engineered Explosives but I was able to build up on a Spellskite. Gaining to 26, even a "36 damage Scapeshift" was not lethal as I could pay 24 life to redirect.

    All in all I'm happy with my deck choice and will probably play the deck again in the future. I'm still interested in the blue splash for Stubborn Denial as a way to fight against Terminus (and combo decks like Storm/KCI), but as I had no time for testing there was no chance for this tournament. The prevalence of Field of Ruin could prove problematic for this plan.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • 2

    posted a message on [Primer] G/W Auras (Bogle)
    Quote from Joban8 »

    I'm all for trying out non-traditonal lists, but even when you consider auras/enchantments of any color that have been printed since RTR, the short list of playable cards is pathetic. Especially considering there was an entire 3-set block built around enchantments during that time span. Regardless, Bant is an interesting option that has always seemed like it'd have potential; I'd like to see someone tap into it and put up some tournament results.


    I don't agree with this, there have been plenty of Auras printed. In our own colors we have Gryff's Boon and Cartouche of Solidarity that are good enough to see play, and several other cards like Forced Adaption, Glaring Aegis and Cartouche of Strength that aren't that far from playability. Looking at blue we have Aqueous Form, Arcane Flight, Curious Obsession and Cartouche of Knowledge as possibilities. White and blue have gotten enough auras that UW Aura decks have been standard viable even without hexproof creatures: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/standard-uw-auras#online, https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/standard-w-u-auras#online

    Red has gotten Consuming Fervor and Madcap Skills and the two remaining Cartouches and all 5 Ordeals are also borderline playable, but those colors aren't really serious contenders for our deck.

    Compare this with the number of cards other linear decks have gotten and there's not a huge difference, most decks have only gotten a couple of potentials in the last 5 years. Bogles has a bit of a problem because the viable pool is reduced to such a huge extent, with the only thing we care about is the highly contested 1-2 mana GW creature aura slot. It's really hard to create fair but viable cards in that extremely small design space.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • 1

    posted a message on [Primer] G/W Auras (Bogle)
    If you could draw cards or prevent the opponent from attacking you with Sixth Sense, that would pretty much make it strictly better than Keen Sense and it would actually be a relevant upgrade. I can certainly imagine playing it on a turn 1 Glistener Elf/Vault Skirge/whatever to prevent attacks.

    Unfortunately it doesn't work because Sixth Sense gives the creature the ability, so the controller of the creature draws the cards rather than the controller of the enchantment. I tried to think about situations where there's any difference at all, but all I can come up with is extreme corner cases involving almost empty libraries and/or Spellskite. So I think you can use either of them or maybe a split to get around Meddling Mage.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • 1

    posted a message on [Primer] G/W Auras (Bogle)
    I looked at the match against Bant Company, and there were definitely some plays I don't agree with. Hope you don't think I'm too harsh.

    Game 1:
    Starting at turn 3, just passing seems way too weak. I get that you want to play around Spell Queller, but since he's a collected company deck he's likely to hold up mana for most of the game. If you don't want to risk the Daybreak Coronet I would at least jam the Kor Spiritdancer. Your play did end up working out since he played Spell Queller on end step anyway, but you couldn't be sure he had it.

    On turn 4 you made a pretty serious error of exposing Spiritdancer to Path by fetching too late. You should first fetch a plains, then play the Spiritdancer+Daybreak to ensure the card draw. If you did that he would probably have played Spell Queller on Coronet instead, so it might have ended up worse for you, but playing around the second Spell Queller seems incorrect.

    When you drew the Rancor, you knew that he had Spell Queller in hand (from Eternal Witness) and mana up, so there's no reason to play it right away. If you just keep it in hand he's forced to keep mana up indefinitely. Eventually you might be able to play several auras in the same turn or at the very least get a bonus card from a Spiritdancer. As it played out, without the damage from the Spell Queller on Rancor you would have easily lived another turn and won the game.

    When you draw the Spirit Umbra, it doesn't really do much on the Dryad Arbor. While there's some benefit to boosting the Ethereal Armors and chumping a flyer later, I would rather just keep it. You can use it for a second Bogle or Spiritdancer, even if you didn't end up needing exactly the damage it gave for the lethal.

    Game 2:
    On turn 3, it seems you missed 3 damage by not attacking with Gaddock Teeg. Not sure about the thinking there. Also I don't understand why you don't crack horizon canopy right away to see if you draw something. You have Ethereal Armor in hand so if you draw another spell you can just play both of them on the same turn.

    Game 3:
    It looks like you forgot to attack with Gladecover Scout on turn 2 and missed 2 damage? Feels like you're getting a bit tired and sloppy at this point, maybe in a hurry too. Always worth keeping in mind that with a draw one of you will make top 8 and it could be you. No reason to rush it if you have a bad hand.

    On turn 3 you path the Knight of the Reliquary and this looks like a mistake. You could just play the Cartouche and attack for 3 or 4 damage (depending on if you want to build 1 large or 2 smaller bogles). You know he has missed a land drop so getting him to 4 lands turns on Collected Company. He has no forests/plains to sacrifice to Knight either. Yes he could use Field of Ruin to get a basic land, but this would tap him out for the turn and you can Path it later (he also might not think of that play). The one problem is that in theory he can get a Ghost Quarter to lock you out of white mana, but this puts himself down to just 2 mana and nothing to sacrifice, it I doubt he will do that.

    As the game played out there was obviously nothing you could do anyway. With a mull to 5 into a weak start, matchups like this can be difficult. I actually he made pretty significant errors too, for example Negating the Rest in Peace which does nothing against the Worship plan or really any of his cards in play. Worth noting is that even against Worship you can actually draw the game with Daybreak Coronet or even win it by milling them out, so never concede the third game just to Worship.

    Game 1 was where you would have had to pick up a win and I think you easily could have with some better decisions. In the early turns there are certainly different arguments in favor of different plays, but playing the Rancor into the known Spell Queller, there's just no reason to do that.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • 1

    posted a message on [Primer] G/W Auras (Bogle)
    R1 - Humans: Bringing in artifact removal just to deal with Aether Vial is not worth it, especially not if you only have 2-mana ones. Aether Vial is already a pretty poor card against us since it's a bit slow. On the other hand Path to Exile is a powerhouse. I do not understand at all keeping them in the sideboard against an aggressive creature deck.

    R2 - Monowhite Hatebears: Again, Path to Exile is great here. There's a number of relevant creatures that you need to deal with and their entire game plan is creatures. Seal of Primordium is probably worth it too though, since you can expect some shenanigans like Worship, Spellskite, etc.

    R3 - Titanshift: In my experience Spirit Link is not quite good enough here, as they can quite easily get to 36 damage, especially as you slow yourself down by including it. I also think that Path to Exile is better than Spirit Mantle, as in the games where they don't draw Scapeshift you can win just by exiling their Primeval Titan. It can also prevent chumps from Sakura-Tribe Elder if it doesn't seem useful otherwise.

    R4 - KCI: We certainly have a lot of sideboard here. I would probably even bring in Seal of Primordium, as it helps stop them go off and can sometimes kill Mox Opal or Mind Stone or something like that. Engineered Explosives is a problem but since both Gaddock Teeg and Stony Silence prevents it we can live with it. It's almost Again I don't really see the point of keeping Spirit Mantle against a deck that doesn't really do creature combat at all. It's important to realize that Spirit Mantle is only good against some decks. The base stats on it is terrible, it costs twice as much as umbras and provide no protection against sweepers or extra abilities. Unless you desperately need early blockers or infinite chumpers could be a problem, take it out.

    R5 - 4c Saheeli: This is probably just gonna be a bad matchup but sideboarding seems fairly ok even with the misidentification. I would have assumed some sort of Kiki Chord deck upon seeing Oath of Nissa (and that's often combined with Saheeli combo) but there probably wasn't much to do. I don't think you can even bring in Seal of Primordium as you don't even know if he's running Blood Moon and you're desperate for a fast clock.

    R6 - Jund: Not much sideboarding to do here when Leylines are maindeck. Rest in Peace is certainly an option. My opinion on that plan is that against Jund you cannot afford to screw around too much. If you have a Leyline and Rest in Peace in play, how are you still gonna have enough creatures and auras to beat him down? Especially when he sees you are low on auras and focuses Abrupt Decays and Maelstrom Pulses on them while ignoring your utility enchantments. Even so, it depends a lot on their specific build. In the past I figured RiP was not worth it against only Tarmogoyf, but if they also played Lingering Souls I brought them in. The same argument could be had for Kolaghan's Command and Scavenging Ooze, though both are likely to be boarded out in the matchup so not sure about that. You could argue that RiP alleviates the need for Path to Exile to some extent, but it doesn't answer Dark Confidant.

    Spirit Mantle is a card that I'm quite torn on against Jund. It's often pretty bad tempo as it costs 2 mana and trades against the removal 1 for 1, and it opens you up to getting very blown out by instant removal. At the same time I have certainly won games where i was lacking action and just held a Tarmogoyf back several turns, and it's often a good topdeck in tight games. As I haven't really tested much against Jund since Bloodbraid Elf was unbanned I'm not gonna give any definite opinion here.

    Mardu Pyromancer: They certainly could play Crackling Doom, but as long as Bogles is limited to 1-2% of the meta, they're unlikely to want to. This matchup can be good or bad depending on the number of discard, Liliana of the Veils, Blood Moons, Engineered Explosives, Wear/Tears, and so on. I think it's fairly close to 50/50 though, as they still can't really deal with Daybreak Coronet at all.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
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