I hope they ban Sensei's Divining Top. Every deck with 1-4 splashcolours (and fetchlands) can abuse this card very well - and the effect is too good, because control about what to draw is always very strong. And this card is so resilient... omfg i dont hate it - i even play it with much fun, but i just think its overpowered.
Correct me if say something wrong, but Stonecloaker can do most things he did before m10.
1) You can still bounce a creature in response to removal.
2) We can still block a Tarmogoyf with an Isamaru (or whatelse) and bounce him with Stonecloaker - but now when declaring blockers.
3) You can still remove a card in a GY with instantspeed (Life from the Loam and so on... this ability is really important!). (possible trick against Tarmogoyf, remove a single type when blockers are declared to give Goofy -1/-1 and maybe he dies?)
4) You can still bounce Mangara in response to his ability.
5) You can still bounce Jotun Grunt before he kills himself.
You lost the ability to kill an utilitycreatures with a 0:1 trade (now its 1:1...). But we still have Jitte and many other card to solve this weakness.
BTW Swords (of Fire/Ice or Shadow/Light) are to slow in the Cataclysm-version. I never play without Cat, but i think even without, the manacurve is really high in this deck and you will create more cardadvantage with Jitte.
Sure! Ok, you want to control the opponent? So you should play a monogreen deck with the allmighty creature Hypnotoad.
ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD!
PS: You should get more concrete if you want serious help. Maybe a decklist or a describtion of your preferred colours. Do you want to play an aggro/control, combo/control or pure control-deck?
Maybe you visit the startpage often enough, but if not: Caleb Durward wrote a nice article about some Death and Taxes issues. Really interessting! *Link*
I really like the part about 'more love for Mana Tithe' since i really think Mana Tithe should get a secound chance to see play in this deck.
Crop Rotation, works with Weathered Wafarer and may help with a land toolbox.
Actually i am testing Knight of the Reliquary instead of Wayfarer, because he is tutor+winoption. Sad, that Knight doesnt provide cardadvantage, but Wayfarers ability often slowed me down and wasnt worth the speeddisadvantage.
So because Crop Rotation also means carddisadvantage, i will not run it and hope, that Knight will be decent.
Hehe, i decided to run Living Wish, it works even better and your intention is really right.
I think you still need to run some removal
Against creatures, i actually test Intrepid Hero as Wishtarget against Decks with few Fatties... Against Swarms, there is your mentioned Tabernacle-land.
So this is my actual testversion with the goal to have answers to all problems and to be highly consistent.
Here comes a small excursion to the splash debate. Do not lose sight of the actual discussion =)
I am one of these guys who are overzealous and try to put different concepts of decks together with the goal of creating a good new deck. So this is my ridiculous suggestion: "Survival-of-Death-and-Taxes.deck"
While a green splash has been discussed in the past, there is a fundamental card which was not tested in this shell so far: Survival of the Fittest. The addition of this card means a lot of change but with the chance to obtain new advantages and keep existing strenghts. This includes specific points...
1) Speed
With the addition of green, there is a lot of possible acceleration for this use. My favorite so far: Noble Hierarch. He produces the colours we need and gives us access to the Exalted.
2) Consistency in finding the pieces/answers
This is the main advantage of Survival of the Fittest. In the past, i tried a lot of cards to gain more control about the cards i draw. Senseis Divining Top, Mask of Memory, Sword of Fire and Ice and Augury Adept are some of this cards and they all failed. A deck based on disruptive creatures is really qualified for Survival, i think.
3) Recursion and Draw
Survival can be a sick engine: Most of you now the popular recursion-pieces Genesis, Anger, Squee, Goblin Nabob. Another card for this purpose is Eternal Witness. She helps to recover from a sweeper or returns discarded/countered cards to hand.
So this are the points. Another important note: Aether Vial and Survival are great together. Both cards work with instant-speed and this gives the deck a potent control about the way it answers the opponents plans.
My current list is very open for development and two big critter are not included at the moment (Serra Avenger and Tarmogoyf) because i want to test an absolut straight forward creaturebase with a really high count of disruptive creatures. A personal thought: I knew other Survival-lists and i hate the 1-offs. So i only play my core-shell of creatures with 3-4 copies of each. This reduces the dependance on Survival, because 1-offs would not offer consistancy against decks who can handle Survival.
The abstinence of discard and counters can be really bad against some special cards, so this are my counterplans (mostly done by proactive creature disruption):
1) Against manadenial (mostly Back to Basics and Bloodmoon) i have access to Hierarchs Mana and Vial. And there is a lot of possible enchantment-hate...
2) Wayfarer profits from Windswept Heath, Wasteland and maybe Horizon Canopy. He can offer the short Wastelandlock, he searches for Karakas, he can fix our manabase or gives some draw via Canopy. The manadenial is sometimes important, because together with Glowrider and Mangara this can hurt the opponent.
3) Combohate via Glowrider and Gaddock Teeg is nothing new, but its nice to have access to turn2 Glowrider via Hierarch.
4) Jotun Grunt enriches the deck with graveyard-hate and besides he helps to fight against Tarmogoyf or Tombstalker.
5) Pridemage offers really solid enchantment and artifact hate. And Mangara is also available and an important part of the deck. Because of Wayfarer and Survival, the lock can be established more often.
6) 8 creatures bring Exalted to this deck and help to play aggressive. Because most of the creatures are weak, i play 3 times Jitte - so every creature can eat the opponent when equipped and the lifegain is also important against Burn. With 28 creatures, the equipment can be used optimal.
7) A big problem are Sweeper and "big bad cards". Some examples: Engineered Explosives, Wrath of God, Armageddon, Damnation, Cataclysm, Humility, Moat, Chalice of the Void, Force of Will... And this deck has a good proative solution: Gaddock Teeg. All of the mentioned cards can not be played as long as Teeg stays in game and with an untapped active Vial@2 and Karakas, its a really nice lock because the controlplayer has to bounce/remove/destroy Teeg. This buys time for the beatdown.
So this is my suggestion for a green splash inclusive Survival of the Fittest. Any thougts?
The EnergyWheel-Combo works a lot more efficient then Propaganda, since it was always a problem to have 1-2 Critter who killed me in a few turns (hello Tarmogoyf). Also, with Enlightened Tutor, its nice to have the Wheels against Ichorid/Aggroloam and so on.
The Scepter works well, too. With 7 Hardcounters, Removal is less a problem and once a Scepter stays in game, its really a big advantage.
Scepter+Brainstorm = Drawengine, Counterbalance-Control
Scepter+Tutor = Tutorengine, CC1-CC3 for Counterbalance
Scepter+StoP = Aggrokiller
Scepter+Counterspell = Controlkiller
With the Sideboard there could be Scepter+Orims Chant against Combo...
Countertop is really important in this deck and most of the time, Tutor is used to find one of the pieces.
With all this recursive disruption, Zur can survive with a high chance and he beats most opponents via 4 turns (because of 2 Godheads), but he can help to lock the opponent, too (Counterbalance, O-Ring, EnergyWheel-Combo).
I often played some silverbullets, but i never needed them really, so i play now this more consistent list. Its really impressive to play
Yeah. If only there was a good 1cc creature for D&T that even helped you get that port or wasteland turn 2, while also netting you smoother access to Karakas, manlands and such. And card advantage. Oh wait, there is. I suppose that's why Maëlig and I run him.
But Wayfarer dont make the deck faster (he would be a lot better without the W-costs of his ability) and i think you need some fetchlands to make his ability more consistent (at the play). This also means vulnerability to Stifle and Blood Moon... Also, like Finn said before, i really think the landtoolbox does not make enough. The only big two moves i liked with Wayfarer are:
1) temporary Wastelandlock while we have an active Vial
2) small carddraw with cycleland
To the cc1-cards, i really like this Elvish Hexhunter (suggestions comes from the source discussion). At Magicworkstation i played 3 in the Flickerwisp-Slot. Yes, never cut Flickerwisp! But i wanted to test the elf, so this was only temporary.
I think he is a very nice 1st turn move against Counterbalance-decks and he helps against Stax-Decks and Bitterblossom-Fearies. Even against 43Lands he was nice, really suprising how many decks run important enchantments. But on the other Hand, Flickerwisp is good in much more situations and against many decks, the elf was only a 1/1. I think it would be so nice, if he has a similar wording like Mangara (sacrificing not as part of the cost), to bounce him in response to the effect. But no
So i tested my Smokestack-build and now i can really say, that this engine is just to slow, whatever i do. But there were 2 of 20 games, where it enteres play and devastated my opponents "battlefield" (sorry, i know we all hate this new word hehe). So i like the fact, that Smokestack can seal the game and now i search for other mechanics that are similar.
I often played Smallpox, later Pox and was happy to sweep my opponents board, but 1-2 Mishras maybe a Spirit were just not enough to finish fast enough before new creatures entered the board (think about usual aggro/control builds like Death and Taxes). Yes, sometimes a Tombstalker can finish, but i feel like TS eats in 3 of 4 games a Sword (or whatever), so one creature alone cant do this job.
Note: This are the reasons for the coming idea.
So i saw Bitterblossom and really love the way it makes tokens about tokens while i sweep the board. And now i recognize, that there is Goblin Assault. Yes, its red and i have to splash, but its a really solid token generator.
By the way, i tested Veinfire Borderpost in this context and it was just to slow. No synergy with Crucible. I dont play it now...
Now, there were two attractive "Smokestacks" that helps at the problem no1 i recognized: Aggro. No Prison-Effects and only 12-16 sac-effects will never stop Aggro or Aggro/Control with their 20-30 threats and mana denial without prisoneffects works only half the power it could. They are called:
1) The Abyss: Solid, but very slow and it hurts us even when the opponent have no creatures.
2) Attrition: Faster, but targeted (advantage and drawback as we all know), needs a creature to have an effect (win more?).
So Attrition is maybe a pseudo-prison and helps against aggro... This is my current decklist:
Extirpate: Maybe its my luck, but i have so many graveyard-dependant decks in my meta, so i have a small chance to win against loam/ichorid or other decks in the first game and this card is also never dead against other decks...
No Pox. This makes me sad (and maybe you, too). Reason is easy: I play a control deck and i need mana, so i will never stay to 3 mana. Also, i need some handcards and Smallpox is often critical on its own. I read a comment from Finn about this card and it was very hard:
Hi Marcosis. I am going to get to the point right away. Don't put any more time into this deck. Pox has been tried over and over. You will have to select particular cards around Pox to get the most out of it. And then if you are seeing things clearly, you are going to realize that even with all the marginal cards you have included, that Pox is the worst card in the deck. The concept is hopelessly flawed in an environment with such big, easy beef. And on your own that would take quite a bit of testing. So I am telling you right now from experience with it myself. Don't bother.
So there are many of my reasons to not play Pox anymore. My personal mainreason is, that i often had no Crucible (because of counters/removal/ no draw) and then, Pox is often as hard for me as for the opponent.
Now i play Innocent Blood in this slot because i need some creature removal.
Umezawa's Jitte: Such a heavy controldeck needs some sort of lifegain and with so many recursive attackers, the Jitte is really attractive.
So i will test this list now at MWS and report in next days...
So i cut Mox Diamond and some lands and added Tombstalker and Dark Ritual. I read a lot of arguments against and for Mox/Ritual and now i want to show them in a list.
Mox Diamond
+ A hand with 1 or more lands and a Mox allows to play Hymn to Tourach, Smallpox or other spells turn one
+ The discarded land can come into play via Crucible later (temporary carddisadvantage)
+ Acceleration that stays in game
+ Colourfix in Bg-/Bw-version of Pox.deck
- The discarded land can be missed after a Smallpox/Pox if you are manascrewed (by opponent or by missing draw of lands)
- Startinghands with 1-2 lands an Mox are often bad, especially with Wasteland/Mishra`s
- You must play 24-26 lands to play 4 Mox Diamonds effective and the deckspace will cause a lack of disruption and there is the danger to be manaflooded
- Together with Crucible of Worlds, you are even more vulnerable to artefact removal and the Mox can be easy destroyed with Deed, Engineered Explosives and other Sweepers
- to draw additional Moxs in mid/lategame can be huge carddisadvantage
- Only a few persons won bigger tournaments with a decklist including Mox Diamond
Ritual
+ Allows explosives starts like first turn Crucible, Hymn/Smallpox + Thoughtseize/Extirpate, helps playing expensive cards like Smokestack
+ Manafix for Pox (BBB cards in general)
+ Tombstalker likes the Ritual
+ Sideboardcards like Engineered Plague or Trinisphere can be played early enough to be highly effective
+ Most of the successful tournament pox-decks play Dark Ritual
- No permanent
- First Turn Smallpox or Pox is risky without additional landcards in hand
- Decks like SuicideBlack can play Ritual more effective because they play creatures early and Ritual fits the fast gameplan. The gameplan of pox is often control and acceleration is fitting less and to draw additional Rituals in mid/lategame can be huge carddisadvantage
Playing without Acceleration
+ Cardquality, less bad topdecked cards
- Slower gameplay, no rabbit out of the head against comboplayers
- Against decks like goblins, you need early answers to special cards or will be lost
- Pox is less effective with 4 or more handcards and the carddisadvantage of acceleration can be fixed by playing Pox in the right moment to compensate the lost cards
I decided to play Dark Ritual now. Turn one Crucible is really huge (think about turn two Wastelandlock) and the manafix helpes playing Pox in early gamestate without Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth. The mainreason I play it is the deckspace I gained. After additional testing I will report in.
Only 15 lands? You need 20-25 and you play Retrace-spells, so play more lands!!!
Play Tombstalker. Dumb people like me don't play it, but 2-4 Tombstalker will never be a misstake! Mind Peel is a bad Raven's Crime. Don't play it. Play Duress or even better Thoughtseize instead. Unburden is weak, because the opponent can choose the cards he discard and this card is slow... Megrim is bad, because it will hit the field when your opponent has near to zero handcards. Ok, you are really focusing on discard-spells, but even then, it's bad. Cards, that need a Dark Ritual to be good, are uninteressting. Play The Rack instead or maybe Nyxathid. Pestilence is slow and without tutors or more draw, you will rarely see a lock with Nether Spirit, because you only run 2 copies of each. Skull Fracture is another bad Raven's Crime... Distress no please Sensei's Divining Top Top is always nice to have, but in your list, it's potential is not used. In versions with fetchlands (and splash maybe) he is better. Pox is a deck that must disrupt the opponent in the first turns don't want to have more then 3 lands in play most the time - so top will only be relevant in topdeckmodus.
Your sideboard is not good. You need cards, that really improve a matchup from bad to good, like Engineered Plague against swarmaggro (Goblins, Elves, Merfolk...) or Leyline of the Void / Extirpate against graveyard-dependant decks (Ichorid, Loamdecks...).
Some general thoughts:
- Discard is nice, but it's only good in early game (only against heavy control decks, it will be relevant the whole match). When players enter the topdeckmodus (no cards in hand) they will play whatever they draw, or - they can't play it, because they have no mana. So only instant-speed discard will hurt everytime, but most of the discard you play is only sorcery-speed.
- To hurt control-decks with discard in lategame and create a lock - use Raven's Crime and maybe an Undiscovered Paradise.
- Here is a heavy discard Pox-build with Crucible:
Ok, i played with the Bg-Version and now i will switch back to mono-b of several reasons...
1) Mox Diamonds are important, because the deck needs speed. With Deed, i don't run Mox with success.
2) I played with 10 green sources and i was easy screwed. While Crucible is castable with colourless Mana, the Loam needs green. This is a plus for crucible. Also, it's a drawback that Loam needs a lot more mana for recurring lands then crucible... And last but not least Crucible is a bit more resistant to Counterbalance...
3) Retrace is overrated i think. Raven's Crime is only good against heavy control decks. Cards with CC1-2 and lands will be played if topdecked and only other cards will be affected by retraced Crime...
Now i want to try Smokestack in the Pox-Shell. I read many posts here and in other forums and this idea is really not new. But i think these versions never focused enough on recurring permanents and so, this is my new list.
Choices:
10 Swamp: With 4 Mox, this amount should be enough to play under B2B or Moon.
2 Sheltered Valley: Maybe this card is a bit underrated... It was suggested here i think and i really like it as light lifegain at the cost of colourless mana.
2 Nether Spirit: I think 2 is the number i should start with, because i never want 2 in one game...
3 Crucible of Worlds and 3 Smokestack: Maybe i exclude Extirpate and run 4 of them, because both are important for a lock and can otherwise pitched into Pox. The castingcost of 4 are slow, but the 4 is not the big problem since i run 4 Moxs, so that i can pay them with 3 lands somestimes i hope.
4 Bitterblossom: This card is dependant on playstyle, but with Valleys, i think the lifeloss can be ok and the effect is really great. They buy time as chumpblockers or combos with Stack... Also, they are flying and a Turn1 Mox+Land BB will even Race Aggro-MUs ^^ This is the slot of Tombstalker, which i really miss in this decklist, but he ist not fast and don't combo with smokestack.
4 Thoughtseize 4 Hymn to Tourach 4 Smallpox 4 Pox: I give up focusing on landdestruction (Sinkhole, Rain of Tears) or creaturedestruction (Innocent Blood, Wretched Banquet) and only run this basic discard and Poxs.
4 Extirpate: Makes Loam, Ichorid and other MUs from unwinable to winable. Helps against every deck... sometimes less, sometimes more.
So there are 2 Spirit/ 3 Crucible and 4 Bitterblossom which all make Smokestack a good card. All this cards are good on their own.
My mainproblem is the question: Will this decklist win against Aggro-Matchups? 8 creature-sacrificer aren't much against 20-30 creatures... Bitterblossom and Mishra's Factory will trade with some creatures, but not with all. And Smokestack is really slow...
Another question:
The startpost named Necroplasm as a creature choice. Did anybody tested him in the past? Maybe he can be decent for the problematic aggro-matchup...
I think his weakness is the fact, that the opponent can calculate his effect and play around it. Also, he is slow... Can he help against Goblins (maybe with acceleration)?
He can deal 2+3+4 damage in the best case and - really good: He has dredge.
When he comes into play, he will eot destroy all tokens... another quality.
I don't know... Can you give me some help about this creature? ^^
I can't decide the way, how to use a green splash for a good Pox-build.
There are two different versions, i played in the past. The first version is very controlish, it plays only 3 Mishra's Factory and 4 Tombstalker as win-conditions but have a high count of disruption.
Problems:
1) I have no Mox Diamond, because i play Deed as a central part of this deck. I try Sensei's Divining Top at the moment, because its good with 5 fetchies and really helps, when i entered the topdeckmodus. Problem of this card ist the requirement of mana, so in the first turns i never use it, when i have a sinkhole/Hymn etc...
2) Dragon Stompy is an autoloose in most cases... After sideboarding, Wretched Banquet can sometimes kill a Magus of the Moon, but only if there is no Chalice@1... On the draw there can be Thoughtseize, but the MU is really bad without many basiclands.
3) Burn is also an autoloose and even 1-2 Syphon Life will not make it a good matchup i think. Deed must go in the board in my list, but did you ever play the card Pox against burn-guys? Maybe i change -4 Pox and +4 Extirpate after sideboarding.
4) Only 7 win-conditions. Pox can lower the opponents life and Senseis helps finding the threats. Loam can grab a factory sometimes... But nevertheless, i think this is not enough, isn't it?
It's more aggressive, but can't sweep the board (ok, Pulse can get rid of tokens...) without Deed. But on the other hand, it can use the potential of Mox and Goofy... I can't decide, which version is stronger in general. Hope your critique will help me
Goblin Lackey, Dark Confidant and Magus of the Moon are all good targets for Wretched Banquet. Versions without Nether Spirit and other small threats can run this new removal, without big drawbacks. When there is a Lackey and maybe a Piledriver or Matron, you want to kill the Lackey! Innocent Blood can't do that. Banquet does.
1) You can still bounce a creature in response to removal.
2) We can still block a Tarmogoyf with an Isamaru (or whatelse) and bounce him with Stonecloaker - but now when declaring blockers.
3) You can still remove a card in a GY with instantspeed (Life from the Loam and so on... this ability is really important!). (possible trick against Tarmogoyf, remove a single type when blockers are declared to give Goofy -1/-1 and maybe he dies?)
4) You can still bounce Mangara in response to his ability.
5) You can still bounce Jotun Grunt before he kills himself.
You lost the ability to kill an utilitycreatures with a 0:1 trade (now its 1:1...). But we still have Jitte and many other card to solve this weakness.
BTW Swords (of Fire/Ice or Shadow/Light) are to slow in the Cataclysm-version. I never play without Cat, but i think even without, the manacurve is really high in this deck and you will create more cardadvantage with Jitte.
ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD!
PS: You should get more concrete if you want serious help. Maybe a decklist or a describtion of your preferred colours. Do you want to play an aggro/control, combo/control or pure control-deck?
I really like the part about 'more love for Mana Tithe' since i really think Mana Tithe should get a secound chance to see play in this deck.
Actually i am testing Knight of the Reliquary instead of Wayfarer, because he is tutor+winoption. Sad, that Knight doesnt provide cardadvantage, but Wayfarers ability often slowed me down and wasnt worth the speeddisadvantage.
So because Crop Rotation also means carddisadvantage, i will not run it and hope, that Knight will be decent.
Hehe, i decided to run Living Wish, it works even better and your intention is really right.
Against creatures, i actually test Intrepid Hero as Wishtarget against Decks with few Fatties... Against Swarms, there is your mentioned Tabernacle-land.
So this is my actual testversion with the goal to have answers to all problems and to be highly consistent.
6 Forest
4 Windswept Heath
4 Savannah
3 Wasteland
2 Plains
1 Karakas
1 Nantuko Monastery
//creatures 27
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Children of Korlis
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Qasali Pridemage
3 Gaddock Teeg
3 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Mangara of Corondor
2 Eternal Witness
1 Loaming Shaman
1 Dauntless Escort
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Genesis
4 Aether Vial
//enchantment 4
4 Survival of the Fittest
//sorcery 4
4 Living Wish
1 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Children of Korlis
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Vexing Shusher
1 Tivadar of Thorn
1 Mangara of Corondor
1 Loaming Shaman
1 Eternal Witness
1 Dauntless Escort
*Edited*
I am one of these guys who are overzealous and try to put different concepts of decks together with the goal of creating a good new deck. So this is my ridiculous suggestion: "Survival-of-Death-and-Taxes.deck"
While a green splash has been discussed in the past, there is a fundamental card which was not tested in this shell so far: Survival of the Fittest. The addition of this card means a lot of change but with the chance to obtain new advantages and keep existing strenghts. This includes specific points...
1) Speed
With the addition of green, there is a lot of possible acceleration for this use. My favorite so far: Noble Hierarch. He produces the colours we need and gives us access to the Exalted.
2) Consistency in finding the pieces/answers
This is the main advantage of Survival of the Fittest. In the past, i tried a lot of cards to gain more control about the cards i draw. Senseis Divining Top, Mask of Memory, Sword of Fire and Ice and Augury Adept are some of this cards and they all failed. A deck based on disruptive creatures is really qualified for Survival, i think.
3) Recursion and Draw
Survival can be a sick engine: Most of you now the popular recursion-pieces Genesis, Anger, Squee, Goblin Nabob. Another card for this purpose is Eternal Witness. She helps to recover from a sweeper or returns discarded/countered cards to hand.
So this are the points. Another important note: Aether Vial and Survival are great together. Both cards work with instant-speed and this gives the deck a potent control about the way it answers the opponents plans.
My current list is very open for development and two big critter are not included at the moment (Serra Avenger and Tarmogoyf) because i want to test an absolut straight forward creaturebase with a really high count of disruptive creatures. A personal thought: I knew other Survival-lists and i hate the 1-offs. So i only play my core-shell of creatures with 3-4 copies of each. This reduces the dependance on Survival, because 1-offs would not offer consistancy against decks who can handle Survival.
Check this out:
4 Windswept Heath
4 Savannah
3 Wasteland
3 Karakas
3 Horizon Canopy
2 Plains
2 Forest
3 Weathered Wayfarer
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Qasali Pridemage
3 Gaddock Teeg
3 Jotun Grunt
3 Glowrider
3 Mangara of Corondor
3 Eternal Witness
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Genesis
4 Aether Vial
3 Umezawa's Jitte
//enchantment 4
4 Survival of the Fittest
1) Against manadenial (mostly Back to Basics and Bloodmoon) i have access to Hierarchs Mana and Vial. And there is a lot of possible enchantment-hate...
2) Wayfarer profits from Windswept Heath, Wasteland and maybe Horizon Canopy. He can offer the short Wastelandlock, he searches for Karakas, he can fix our manabase or gives some draw via Canopy. The manadenial is sometimes important, because together with Glowrider and Mangara this can hurt the opponent.
3) Combohate via Glowrider and Gaddock Teeg is nothing new, but its nice to have access to turn2 Glowrider via Hierarch.
4) Jotun Grunt enriches the deck with graveyard-hate and besides he helps to fight against Tarmogoyf or Tombstalker.
5) Pridemage offers really solid enchantment and artifact hate. And Mangara is also available and an important part of the deck. Because of Wayfarer and Survival, the lock can be established more often.
6) 8 creatures bring Exalted to this deck and help to play aggressive. Because most of the creatures are weak, i play 3 times Jitte - so every creature can eat the opponent when equipped and the lifegain is also important against Burn. With 28 creatures, the equipment can be used optimal.
7) A big problem are Sweeper and "big bad cards". Some examples: Engineered Explosives, Wrath of God, Armageddon, Damnation, Cataclysm, Humility, Moat, Chalice of the Void, Force of Will... And this deck has a good proative solution: Gaddock Teeg. All of the mentioned cards can not be played as long as Teeg stays in game and with an untapped active Vial@2 and Karakas, its a really nice lock because the controlplayer has to bounce/remove/destroy Teeg. This buys time for the beatdown.
So this is my suggestion for a green splash inclusive Survival of the Fittest. Any thougts?
4 Flooded Strand
4 Tundra
4 Underground Sea
3 Polluted Delta
3 Island
2 Plains
1 Scrubland
3 Zur the Enchanter
//enchantment 12
3 Counterbalance
2 Wheel of Sun and Moon
2 Energy Field
3 Oblivion Ring
2 Steel of the Godhead
3 Senseis Divining Top
3 Isochron Scepter
//instant 18
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Enlightened Tutor
3 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
The Scepter works well, too. With 7 Hardcounters, Removal is less a problem and once a Scepter stays in game, its really a big advantage.
Scepter+Brainstorm = Drawengine, Counterbalance-Control
Scepter+Tutor = Tutorengine, CC1-CC3 for Counterbalance
Scepter+StoP = Aggrokiller
Scepter+Counterspell = Controlkiller
With the Sideboard there could be Scepter+Orims Chant against Combo...
Countertop is really important in this deck and most of the time, Tutor is used to find one of the pieces.
With all this recursive disruption, Zur can survive with a high chance and he beats most opponents via 4 turns (because of 2 Godheads), but he can help to lock the opponent, too (Counterbalance, O-Ring, EnergyWheel-Combo).
I often played some silverbullets, but i never needed them really, so i play now this more consistent list. Its really impressive to play
But Wayfarer dont make the deck faster (he would be a lot better without the W-costs of his ability) and i think you need some fetchlands to make his ability more consistent (at the play). This also means vulnerability to Stifle and Blood Moon... Also, like Finn said before, i really think the landtoolbox does not make enough. The only big two moves i liked with Wayfarer are:
1) temporary Wastelandlock while we have an active Vial
2) small carddraw with cycleland
To the cc1-cards, i really like this Elvish Hexhunter (suggestions comes from the source discussion). At Magicworkstation i played 3 in the Flickerwisp-Slot. Yes, never cut Flickerwisp! But i wanted to test the elf, so this was only temporary.
I think he is a very nice 1st turn move against Counterbalance-decks and he helps against Stax-Decks and Bitterblossom-Fearies. Even against 43Lands he was nice, really suprising how many decks run important enchantments. But on the other Hand, Flickerwisp is good in much more situations and against many decks, the elf was only a 1/1. I think it would be so nice, if he has a similar wording like Mangara (sacrificing not as part of the cost), to bounce him in response to the effect. But no
So i tested my Smokestack-build and now i can really say, that this engine is just to slow, whatever i do. But there were 2 of 20 games, where it enteres play and devastated my opponents "battlefield" (sorry, i know we all hate this new word hehe). So i like the fact, that Smokestack can seal the game and now i search for other mechanics that are similar.
I often played Smallpox, later Pox and was happy to sweep my opponents board, but 1-2 Mishras maybe a Spirit were just not enough to finish fast enough before new creatures entered the board (think about usual aggro/control builds like Death and Taxes). Yes, sometimes a Tombstalker can finish, but i feel like TS eats in 3 of 4 games a Sword (or whatever), so one creature alone cant do this job.
Note: This are the reasons for the coming idea.
So i saw Bitterblossom and really love the way it makes tokens about tokens while i sweep the board. And now i recognize, that there is Goblin Assault. Yes, its red and i have to splash, but its a really solid token generator.
By the way, i tested Veinfire Borderpost in this context and it was just to slow. No synergy with Crucible. I dont play it now...
Now, there were two attractive "Smokestacks" that helps at the problem no1 i recognized: Aggro. No Prison-Effects and only 12-16 sac-effects will never stop Aggro or Aggro/Control with their 20-30 threats and mana denial without prisoneffects works only half the power it could. They are called:
1) The Abyss: Solid, but very slow and it hurts us even when the opponent have no creatures.
2) Attrition: Faster, but targeted (advantage and drawback as we all know), needs a creature to have an effect (win more?).
So Attrition is maybe a pseudo-prison and helps against aggro... This is my current decklist:
6 Swamp
4 Badland
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Mishras Factory
3 Wasteland
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Nether Spirit
enchantments 11
4 Bitterblossom
4 Goblin Assault
3 Attriction
artifacts 6
3 Umezawas Jitte
3 Crucible of Worlds
3 Extirpate
sorcerys 15
4 Thoughtseize
3 Innocent Blood
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Smallpox
Extirpate: Maybe its my luck, but i have so many graveyard-dependant decks in my meta, so i have a small chance to win against loam/ichorid or other decks in the first game and this card is also never dead against other decks...
No Pox. This makes me sad (and maybe you, too). Reason is easy: I play a control deck and i need mana, so i will never stay to 3 mana. Also, i need some handcards and Smallpox is often critical on its own. I read a comment from Finn about this card and it was very hard:
So there are many of my reasons to not play Pox anymore. My personal mainreason is, that i often had no Crucible (because of counters/removal/ no draw) and then, Pox is often as hard for me as for the opponent.
Now i play Innocent Blood in this slot because i need some creature removal.
Umezawa's Jitte: Such a heavy controldeck needs some sort of lifegain and with so many recursive attackers, the Jitte is really attractive.
So i will test this list now at MWS and report in next days...
12 Swamp
4 Wasteland
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Mishra's Factory
creature 5
2 Nether Spirit
3 Tombstalker
artifact 6
3 Crucible of Worlds
3 Smokestack
4 Bitterblossom
sorcery 16
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Smallpox
4 Pox
instant 7
4 Dark Ritual
3 Extirpate
3 Chalice of the Void
3 Innocent Blood
3 Engineered Plague
3 Syphon Life
3 Leyline of the Void
Mox Diamond
+ A hand with 1 or more lands and a Mox allows to play Hymn to Tourach, Smallpox or other spells turn one
+ The discarded land can come into play via Crucible later (temporary carddisadvantage)
+ Acceleration that stays in game
+ Colourfix in Bg-/Bw-version of Pox.deck
- The discarded land can be missed after a Smallpox/Pox if you are manascrewed (by opponent or by missing draw of lands)
- Startinghands with 1-2 lands an Mox are often bad, especially with Wasteland/Mishra`s
- You must play 24-26 lands to play 4 Mox Diamonds effective and the deckspace will cause a lack of disruption and there is the danger to be manaflooded
- Together with Crucible of Worlds, you are even more vulnerable to artefact removal and the Mox can be easy destroyed with Deed, Engineered Explosives and other Sweepers
- to draw additional Moxs in mid/lategame can be huge carddisadvantage
- Only a few persons won bigger tournaments with a decklist including Mox Diamond
Ritual
+ Allows explosives starts like first turn Crucible, Hymn/Smallpox + Thoughtseize/Extirpate, helps playing expensive cards like Smokestack
+ Manafix for Pox (BBB cards in general)
+ Tombstalker likes the Ritual
+ Sideboardcards like Engineered Plague or Trinisphere can be played early enough to be highly effective
+ Most of the successful tournament pox-decks play Dark Ritual
- No permanent
- First Turn Smallpox or Pox is risky without additional landcards in hand
- Decks like SuicideBlack can play Ritual more effective because they play creatures early and Ritual fits the fast gameplan. The gameplan of pox is often control and acceleration is fitting less and to draw additional Rituals in mid/lategame can be huge carddisadvantage
Playing without Acceleration
+ Cardquality, less bad topdecked cards
- Slower gameplay, no rabbit out of the head against comboplayers
- Against decks like goblins, you need early answers to special cards or will be lost
- Pox is less effective with 4 or more handcards and the carddisadvantage of acceleration can be fixed by playing Pox in the right moment to compensate the lost cards
I decided to play Dark Ritual now. Turn one Crucible is really huge (think about turn two Wastelandlock) and the manafix helpes playing Pox in early gamestate without Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth. The mainreason I play it is the deckspace I gained. After additional testing I will report in.
Play Tombstalker. Dumb people like me don't play it, but 2-4 Tombstalker will never be a misstake!
Mind Peel is a bad Raven's Crime. Don't play it. Play Duress or even better Thoughtseize instead.
Unburden is weak, because the opponent can choose the cards he discard and this card is slow...
Megrim is bad, because it will hit the field when your opponent has near to zero handcards. Ok, you are really focusing on discard-spells, but even then, it's bad. Cards, that need a Dark Ritual to be good, are uninteressting. Play The Rack instead or maybe Nyxathid.
Pestilence is slow and without tutors or more draw, you will rarely see a lock with Nether Spirit, because you only run 2 copies of each.
Skull Fracture is another bad Raven's Crime...
Distress no please
Sensei's Divining Top Top is always nice to have, but in your list, it's potential is not used. In versions with fetchlands (and splash maybe) he is better. Pox is a deck that must disrupt the opponent in the first turns don't want to have more then 3 lands in play most the time - so top will only be relevant in topdeckmodus.
Your sideboard is not good. You need cards, that really improve a matchup from bad to good, like Engineered Plague against swarmaggro (Goblins, Elves, Merfolk...) or Leyline of the Void / Extirpate against graveyard-dependant decks (Ichorid, Loamdecks...).
Some general thoughts:
- Discard is nice, but it's only good in early game (only against heavy control decks, it will be relevant the whole match). When players enter the topdeckmodus (no cards in hand) they will play whatever they draw, or - they can't play it, because they have no mana. So only instant-speed discard will hurt everytime, but most of the discard you play is only sorcery-speed.
- To hurt control-decks with discard in lategame and create a lock - use Raven's Crime and maybe an Undiscovered Paradise.
- Here is a heavy discard Pox-build with Crucible:
12 Swamp
4 Wasteland
3 Mishra's Factory
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Undiscovered Paradise
4 Dark Ritual
4 Thoughtseize
2 Duress
2 Raven's Crime
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Smallpox
4 Pox
4 The Rack
3 Nyxathid
3 Tombstalker
3 Crucible of Worlds
1) Mox Diamonds are important, because the deck needs speed. With Deed, i don't run Mox with success.
2) I played with 10 green sources and i was easy screwed. While Crucible is castable with colourless Mana, the Loam needs green. This is a plus for crucible. Also, it's a drawback that Loam needs a lot more mana for recurring lands then crucible... And last but not least Crucible is a bit more resistant to Counterbalance...
3) Retrace is overrated i think. Raven's Crime is only good against heavy control decks. Cards with CC1-2 and lands will be played if topdecked and only other cards will be affected by retraced Crime...
Now i want to try Smokestack in the Pox-Shell. I read many posts here and in other forums and this idea is really not new. But i think these versions never focused enough on recurring permanents and so, this is my new list.
10 Swamp
4 Wasteland
3 Mishra's Factory
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Sheltered Valley
2 Cabal Pit
creature
2 Nether Spirit
artifact
4 Mox Diamond
3 Crucible of Worlds
3 Smokestack
4 Bitterblossom
sorcery
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Smallpox
4 Pox
instant
4 Extirpate
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Innocent Blood
4 Engineered Plague
3 Syphon Life
10 Swamp: With 4 Mox, this amount should be enough to play under B2B or Moon.
2 Sheltered Valley: Maybe this card is a bit underrated... It was suggested here i think and i really like it as light lifegain at the cost of colourless mana.
2 Nether Spirit: I think 2 is the number i should start with, because i never want 2 in one game...
3 Crucible of Worlds and 3 Smokestack: Maybe i exclude Extirpate and run 4 of them, because both are important for a lock and can otherwise pitched into Pox. The castingcost of 4 are slow, but the 4 is not the big problem since i run 4 Moxs, so that i can pay them with 3 lands somestimes i hope.
4 Bitterblossom: This card is dependant on playstyle, but with Valleys, i think the lifeloss can be ok and the effect is really great. They buy time as chumpblockers or combos with Stack... Also, they are flying and a Turn1 Mox+Land BB will even Race Aggro-MUs ^^ This is the slot of Tombstalker, which i really miss in this decklist, but he ist not fast and don't combo with smokestack.
4 Thoughtseize 4 Hymn to Tourach 4 Smallpox 4 Pox: I give up focusing on landdestruction (Sinkhole, Rain of Tears) or creaturedestruction (Innocent Blood, Wretched Banquet) and only run this basic discard and Poxs.
4 Extirpate: Makes Loam, Ichorid and other MUs from unwinable to winable. Helps against every deck... sometimes less, sometimes more.
So there are 2 Spirit/ 3 Crucible and 4 Bitterblossom which all make Smokestack a good card. All this cards are good on their own.
My mainproblem is the question: Will this decklist win against Aggro-Matchups? 8 creature-sacrificer aren't much against 20-30 creatures... Bitterblossom and Mishra's Factory will trade with some creatures, but not with all. And Smokestack is really slow...
Another question:
The startpost named Necroplasm as a creature choice. Did anybody tested him in the past? Maybe he can be decent for the problematic aggro-matchup...
I think his weakness is the fact, that the opponent can calculate his effect and play around it. Also, he is slow... Can he help against Goblins (maybe with acceleration)?
He can deal 2+3+4 damage in the best case and - really good: He has dredge.
When he comes into play, he will eot destroy all tokens... another quality.
I don't know... Can you give me some help about this creature? ^^
There are two different versions, i played in the past. The first version is very controlish, it plays only 3 Mishra's Factory and 4 Tombstalker as win-conditions but have a high count of disruption.
4 Bayou
4 Wasteland
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Mishra's Factory
3 Barren Moor
3 Polluted Delta
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Swamp
//creatures
4 Tombstalker
4 Pernicious Deed
//artifact
3 Sensei's Divining Top
//sorcery
4 Thoughtseize
2 Raven's Crime
4 Sinkhole
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Smallpox
3 Life from the Loam
4 Pox
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Extirpate
4 Wretched Banquet
3 Syphon Life
1) I have no Mox Diamond, because i play Deed as a central part of this deck. I try Sensei's Divining Top at the moment, because its good with 5 fetchies and really helps, when i entered the topdeckmodus. Problem of this card ist the requirement of mana, so in the first turns i never use it, when i have a sinkhole/Hymn etc...
2) Dragon Stompy is an autoloose in most cases... After sideboarding, Wretched Banquet can sometimes kill a Magus of the Moon, but only if there is no Chalice@1... On the draw there can be Thoughtseize, but the MU is really bad without many basiclands.
3) Burn is also an autoloose and even 1-2 Syphon Life will not make it a good matchup i think. Deed must go in the board in my list, but did you ever play the card Pox against burn-guys? Maybe i change -4 Pox and +4 Extirpate after sideboarding.
4) Only 7 win-conditions. Pox can lower the opponents life and Senseis helps finding the threats. Loam can grab a factory sometimes... But nevertheless, i think this is not enough, isn't it?
The other version is this:
4 Bayou
4 Wasteland
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Mishra's Factory
3 Barren Moor
3 Polluted Delta
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Swamp
//creatures
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Tombstalker
4 Mox Diamond
//sorcery
4 Thoughtseize
1 Raven's Crime
4 Sinkhole
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Smallpox
3 Life from the Loam
3 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Pox
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Extirpate
4 Wretched Banquet
3 Syphon Life