I think the looting discussion will always end up being a player preference. I personally always have bad draws so I prefer looting to pitch excess lands on my combo turn when I'm digging for Grapeshot.
Scrubbed out of SCG Orlando with Dredge, decided to sleeve up old faithful for one of the challenged and went 2-2, somehow 2-0-ing Lantern control. I dropped Tome Scour for Faithless looting to pitch dead draws, and I felt way more consistent.
Just a side-note: Thought Scour is an important tool against Lantern Control, because you can draw a key revealed card (like Shatterstorm) in response to milling.
Honestly, I'd rather have looting in 90% of my other matchups, I don't like playing against lantern (it's like pulling teeth, naturally), and I feel it's already a bad matchup since they are going to be running more targeted GY hate for Dredge.
Is lantern running main deck cages now? At least before dredges popularity lantern was not that difficult of a matchup. Empty killed them before they could set up most of the time. Blood moon made it so they can't cast interaction. We have a graveyard based strategy which they help fuel in G1. It could be hard if they got the lock very early, but generally it was a positive matchup.
The guy I played against had them mainboarded, I won G2 by past in flames -> flashback Truth with 10 goblin tokens.
Scrubbed out of SCG Orlando with Dredge, decided to sleeve up old faithful for one of the challenged and went 2-2, somehow 2-0-ing Lantern control. I dropped Tome Scour for Faithless looting to pitch dead draws, and I felt way more consistent.
Went 1-4 today at SCG Orlando today. So many times I dredged all lands and no gas. My only victory was because my opponent didn't show. I did play against Brad Nelson round 3, so it was neat.
i have lot of problems sideboarding out with dredge.
what cards should i choice?
usually in G2 i have to side in 4-6 cards. is you side-out a standard one?
does everyone use this sideboarding strategy?
I followed Zen Takahashi's guide, and as a Storm player I almost always prefer to skim from playsets over boarding out entire cards. As everyone else said, you are almost an combo player so you don't want to ideally side out too many pieces to that combo.
Played in an 8-man 3 round event for funsies, as my only paper event before SCG Orlando.
Game 1: Keith, Abzan Midrange
Keith isn't a new player, we talked beforehand and he's been playing as long as I have, but he isn't really a spike. He watched me warm up against another player earlier so he knew I was on dredge, but I didn't know what I was up against. I drop T1 Looting and drop a dredger, and bloodghast. He plays a forest and t1 some green Figure of Destiny-like card, and passes. I end up overwhelming him while he drops land and has two 3/3 green Figure-things.
I remember he had mentioned Tormod's crypt being good against me, so I assume he has them in game 2. I have no clue what I'm against, I only saw those creatures and a plains.
Game 2 is about the same. He drops lands, lands a turn 2 Tidehollow Sculler that I grudge after the abilities resolve. He lands a Siege Rhino and I overwhelm with creatures and Conflag.
2-0.
Round 2: Alex, Fish
So Alex is my best friend, and I came here with him. We 100% know each other decks, and it's about 50/50.
Game 1: I mull to 5, and kept a mediocre hand over mulling to 4 for a bad hand. He drops t1 vial, I have t1 looting. I durdle with bad dredges and he lands dudes and wins, and I can't get by his opening 2 spreading seas.
Game 2: I keep 6, he snap keeps his 7. I drop T1 Loot into double dredgers and go hard. He drops a t2 Silvergill Adept, which I kill on my t3 with Collective Brutality and get max value from it (drop his spreading seas, kill adept, drain 2). I win shortly thereafter.
Game 3: He drops t1 vial, I drop a land and pass after mulling to 5. He ends up landing Master of Waves and I scoop.
3-2
Round 3: Calan, Ad Nauseam
Calan was super cool and we talked earlier about what we wanted to play, so we knew what we were against. We snapkeep our 7, I start with looting to GGT and bloodghast and pass. He plays a scryland and passes. I dredge hard and bring him to 6, and he untaps and wins.
Game 2 I start strong, and land a bloodghast and amalgam relatively early. He durdles and plays cantrips but doesn't get there before I get him low. He also runs a different white fog, but I conflag for lethal.
Game 3 I snap keep 7, so does he. I drop some good dredgers and flip almost every Nature's claim and Inquisition in my deck, and amass a good board. I kept a claim in my opener but was worried I was going to lose before it was relevant. I bring him to 1 via Angel's Grace, on his turn he drops Unlife and passes, end step I claim it. He casts Spoils in response for Pact of Negation, and concedes.
5-2
We split the last round and I took some packs home. I felt pretty confident in playing, my only misplay was tapping a Stomping Ground against Ad Naus with his Lotus Bloom about to come in play, but he shows me he has the kill in upkeep regardless. Hopefully this luck will continue at SCG Orlando this weekend, but there will for sure be some dredge hate waiting for me.
I've run Goblin Lore instead of Voice, and it's really good when you have dredgers in the yard. However, that'ts the only time it was good. Other times, I found myself discarding things I wanted to hold onto, like darkblasts or axes.
Mixed feeling about Dredge not making any showings this weekend, I think it's mostly because people are afraid to play it. I'm still packing it to SCG Orlando in a few weeks.
I am building the deck and playing it a lot on Xmage, and I have some questions. I'm also new to legacy so it may just be a learning experiment.
How do you guys sideboard? I am playing Jeremiah Wolfgang's list from SCG Somerset, with prized amalgams. I have been boarding out Amalgams for Shoal or Contagion, and Shells for Chancellor (essentially 3 - for 3 or 4 - for - 4), is that the right play?
Also, what are the pros/cons of running the anti hate cards in sideboard? I can't find any videos or explanations as to how you get your forest and cast your nature's claim with major hate in play like Leyline.
I play Zen's fetch list, but I also have a Ghost Quarter over the second Dakmor salvage. I never take a whole lot of damage from shocks, and i like having the fetches for lands.
I´m really liking this list actually. A lot. I like that it has both tormenting voice and shriekhorn. How´s it been working?
I imagine 2 life from the loam can get rough. especially with 19 lands and 3 conflagrates. Only lists I would run less than 3 are the gargadon builds.
I have been running 2 loams for the past few weeks and I don't miss it - you find the one you need fairly quickly and you just go uphill form there. I took it out for Collective Brutality.
So testing brutality some more. Its an awesome card. But ya'll might be right that is like a 1 of. 2 mana hurts it as a "great" enabler, but it does its job exceedingly well. Much like darkblast and lightning axe does, so I think its good as those classes of cards. Id wanna treat it like that from now on. I might want more, if we got cute with our side and started running Mystic Retrieval. Has anyone tried cute stuff with that yet?
I'm also sold on 2 loams, 3 conflags, 21 land per ya'lls suggestions. Mana seems much smoother, and I hit loam still often enough to bridge my 3/4/5th mana as I need it or filling for conflag. My deck is less cute now (went up to full 4/4 troll/stinkweed to comansate the changes) and had to cut my one of axe and one of the brutalities... but I think its worth it. I still wanna see if I can make my sideboard cute with retrieval... Buuuuttt I probably shouldnt.
Brutality is really good, I am glad I am running it. It's relevant in every matchup, despite what you'd think. Even for 1B - Deal 2/gain 2 and peek your opponent's grip, plus discarding a dredger is really good.
The great question is.. what you guys side OUT. This deck is very hard to open space for the side in.
Depending on the matchup, I switch out the Dakmor salvage, darkblast, and voice to add in Grudge. If I know my opponent has remand or too many/too few dudes to conflagrate (eldrazi, ad naus, jeskai), I'll board out 1-2 conflags and a Neonate to free up slots.
hi Arcadence, I play a similar version of Confla-Loam Dredge: I'm trying Haunted Dead instead of Darkblast, the second Dakmor Salvage instead of GQ and a Steam Vents over 1 Copperline Gorge.
The only advice I have for you is to put the Steam Vents: I's very usefull when you stuck with Amalgam and Narco in hand and it open some sideboard choices like Memory's Journey.
GJ man!
I know Haunted Dead is a good card, but I just don't know if I want it over Darkblast for game 1 matchups, and I don't like Memory's journey much, it feels gimmicky. If there was more targeted GY hate being played (surgical,etc) I would probably be more inclined to run it.
Manabase is the traditional base, you really just need 8 fecches that get a mountain and that's what I have. The singleton GQ over the second Dakmor salvage is something I am currently still testing but I am never unhappy to see it. I just played through a Modetn 8-man tourney and went 3-0, two of those matches (against Ad Nauseam and Abzan Midrange) I won from color screwing them with GQ and Loam. I may drop a Copperline for a Steam Vents, but I am undecided.
Darkblast main over an Axe main is mostly to improve the game 1 against anything with dorks or 1 toughness creatures. I would prefer Lighting Axe but I know it's dead if it's not in my opener, and Darkblast isn't.
3/2 split on Conflagrate and Loam is mostly preference. I wanted to play Brutality and knew I didn't need a third Loam (multiples are bad), and I didn't need another 2 drop enabler since I was getting Brutality as a discard outlet as well as utility.
I can't afford Explosives, so I have more sideboard hate for out hate, such as RiP and Leyline with Nature's claim. I haven't tried Duress over Inquisition yet, but it may be next on my testing lists to see how it fares. I usually board it in against control mirrors or midrange that play Scooze.
Thanks for the amazing writeup Ryan! Why did you not like Pharaoh postboard? What did you sideboard plans look like, if you don't mind me asking? I am going to SCG Orlando and would love some feedback.
The guy I played against had them mainboarded, I won G2 by past in flames -> flashback Truth with 10 goblin tokens.
I followed Zen Takahashi's guide, and as a Storm player I almost always prefer to skim from playsets over boarding out entire cards. As everyone else said, you are almost an combo player so you don't want to ideally side out too many pieces to that combo.
Game 1: Keith, Abzan Midrange
Keith isn't a new player, we talked beforehand and he's been playing as long as I have, but he isn't really a spike. He watched me warm up against another player earlier so he knew I was on dredge, but I didn't know what I was up against. I drop T1 Looting and drop a dredger, and bloodghast. He plays a forest and t1 some green Figure of Destiny-like card, and passes. I end up overwhelming him while he drops land and has two 3/3 green Figure-things.
I remember he had mentioned Tormod's crypt being good against me, so I assume he has them in game 2. I have no clue what I'm against, I only saw those creatures and a plains.
Out: -1 Voice, Narco, Bloodghast, Dakmor, Conflag, Neonate.
In: +3 Grudge, +3 Axe.
Game 2 is about the same. He drops lands, lands a turn 2 Tidehollow Sculler that I grudge after the abilities resolve. He lands a Siege Rhino and I overwhelm with creatures and Conflag.
2-0.
Round 2: Alex, Fish
So Alex is my best friend, and I came here with him. We 100% know each other decks, and it's about 50/50.
Game 1: I mull to 5, and kept a mediocre hand over mulling to 4 for a bad hand. He drops t1 vial, I have t1 looting. I durdle with bad dredges and he lands dudes and wins, and I can't get by his opening 2 spreading seas.
Out: -1 Conflag, Dakmor, Neonate, Narco, Voice, Bloodghast
In: +3 Axe, +3 Inquisition
Game 2: I keep 6, he snap keeps his 7. I drop T1 Loot into double dredgers and go hard. He drops a t2 Silvergill Adept, which I kill on my t3 with Collective Brutality and get max value from it (drop his spreading seas, kill adept, drain 2). I win shortly thereafter.
Game 3: He drops t1 vial, I drop a land and pass after mulling to 5. He ends up landing Master of Waves and I scoop.
3-2
Round 3: Calan, Ad Nauseam
Calan was super cool and we talked earlier about what we wanted to play, so we knew what we were against. We snapkeep our 7, I start with looting to GGT and bloodghast and pass. He plays a scryland and passes. I dredge hard and bring him to 6, and he untaps and wins.
Out: -1 Darkblast, conflagrate, voice, neonate, narco, loam, dakmor, Bloodghast
In: +3 claim, +2 Grudge, +3 Inquisition.
Game 2 I start strong, and land a bloodghast and amalgam relatively early. He durdles and plays cantrips but doesn't get there before I get him low. He also runs a different white fog, but I conflag for lethal.
Game 3 I snap keep 7, so does he. I drop some good dredgers and flip almost every Nature's claim and Inquisition in my deck, and amass a good board. I kept a claim in my opener but was worried I was going to lose before it was relevant. I bring him to 1 via Angel's Grace, on his turn he drops Unlife and passes, end step I claim it. He casts Spoils in response for Pact of Negation, and concedes.
5-2
We split the last round and I took some packs home. I felt pretty confident in playing, my only misplay was tapping a Stomping Ground against Ad Naus with his Lotus Bloom about to come in play, but he shows me he has the kill in upkeep regardless. Hopefully this luck will continue at SCG Orlando this weekend, but there will for sure be some dredge hate waiting for me.
How do you guys sideboard? I am playing Jeremiah Wolfgang's list from SCG Somerset, with prized amalgams. I have been boarding out Amalgams for Shoal or Contagion, and Shells for Chancellor (essentially 3 - for 3 or 4 - for - 4), is that the right play?
Also, what are the pros/cons of running the anti hate cards in sideboard? I can't find any videos or explanations as to how you get your forest and cast your nature's claim with major hate in play like Leyline.
I have been running 2 loams for the past few weeks and I don't miss it - you find the one you need fairly quickly and you just go uphill form there. I took it out for Collective Brutality.
Brutality is really good, I am glad I am running it. It's relevant in every matchup, despite what you'd think. Even for 1B - Deal 2/gain 2 and peek your opponent's grip, plus discarding a dredger is really good.
Depending on the matchup, I switch out the Dakmor salvage, darkblast, and voice to add in Grudge. If I know my opponent has remand or too many/too few dudes to conflagrate (eldrazi, ad naus, jeskai), I'll board out 1-2 conflags and a Neonate to free up slots.
I know Haunted Dead is a good card, but I just don't know if I want it over Darkblast for game 1 matchups, and I don't like Memory's journey much, it feels gimmicky. If there was more targeted GY hate being played (surgical,etc) I would probably be more inclined to run it.
4x Insolent Neonate
4x Bloodghast
4x Prized Amalgam
4x Stinkweed Imp
4x Golgari Grave-Troll
4x Narcomoeba
Spells
4x Faithless Looting
3x Tormenting Voice
2x Collective Brutality
3x Conflagrate
2x Life from the Loam
1x Darkblast
4x Arid Mesa
3x Bloodstained Mire
1x Wooded Foothills
4x Copperline Gorge
1x Dakmor Salvage
1x Ghost Quarter
2x Stomping Ground
2x Blood Crypt
3x Mountain
3x Ancient Grudge
1x Darkblast
2x Gnaw to the Bone
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Lightning Axe
3x Nature's Claim
Explanation of choices:
Manabase is the traditional base, you really just need 8 fecches that get a mountain and that's what I have. The singleton GQ over the second Dakmor salvage is something I am currently still testing but I am never unhappy to see it. I just played through a Modetn 8-man tourney and went 3-0, two of those matches (against Ad Nauseam and Abzan Midrange) I won from color screwing them with GQ and Loam. I may drop a Copperline for a Steam Vents, but I am undecided.
Darkblast main over an Axe main is mostly to improve the game 1 against anything with dorks or 1 toughness creatures. I would prefer Lighting Axe but I know it's dead if it's not in my opener, and Darkblast isn't.
3/2 split on Conflagrate and Loam is mostly preference. I wanted to play Brutality and knew I didn't need a third Loam (multiples are bad), and I didn't need another 2 drop enabler since I was getting Brutality as a discard outlet as well as utility.
I can't afford Explosives, so I have more sideboard hate for out hate, such as RiP and Leyline with Nature's claim. I haven't tried Duress over Inquisition yet, but it may be next on my testing lists to see how it fares. I usually board it in against control mirrors or midrange that play Scooze.
1x Darkblast
2x Gnaw to the Bone
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Lightning Axe
3x Nature's Claim
IoK may become Duress depending on what the metagame shifts to for GY hate. I also run one Darkblast MB.