I'm definitely considering Gamble right now. We tested for a few hours last night, and while Burning Wish is very powerful, it's slow and clunky. Gamble is on the short list of other builds to test.
We're also considering a living wish build, which will probably be just as clunky, but might be a little faster. We can put Azusa, Lost but Seeking or Oracle of Mul Daya in the board, with maybe a Primeval Titan for acceleration, but we can also move things like the Tabernacle to the board so we don't draw it when we don't need it, and put the 4th Valakut in the board.
Thoughts.
Thanks for the comment!
I come to cube as someone with no particular aggro tendencies. I prefer control and combo to aggro in most formats. That said, as a cube designer I feel it's my responsibility to understand all archetypes, so I've been studying aggro for years, talking to people who understand and enjoy it more than I do, and I feel like I've gotten to a pretty good place. The glut of one drops WotC has given us recently has really helped lower the curve for aggro decks and help them get under the control decks. I've also been a little more stringent about what control tools get added, so every playable wrath effect is no longer in the cube. This means control decks are having to prioritize drafting removal if they want it, which I like. Every aggro matchup shouldn't be a race to kill before the wrath, there should be a little more interaction, and that's been happening.
Here are some of the aggro decks people (myself included) have drafted recently that I think are good. Not necessarily great, but I'm not spending hours curating lists looking for the bests, these are just concepts.
This guy got pretty great fixing so he can play one drops in all 3 colors. That's super rare, and the CC two drops may be a bit greedy, but Imposing Sovereign and Winter Orb should help keep your cheap guys relevant longer and then Aristocrat can come over the top at the end.
1x Figure of Destiny
1x Goblin Guide
1x Mardu Woe-Reaper
1x Rakdos Cackler
1x Sarcomancy
1x Soldier of the Pantheon
1x Steppe Lynx
1x Vampire Lacerator
1x Zurgo Bellstriker
1x Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit
1x Burning-Tree Emissary
1x Gore-House Chainwalker
1x Hellspark Elemental
1x Imposing Sovereign
1x Lightning Mauler
1x Spike Jester
1x Falkenrath Aristocrat
1x Murderous Redcap
1x Mox Diamond
1x Winter Orb
Instant
1x Boros Charm
1x Searing Blaze
1x Kolaghan's Command
Enchantment
1x Goblin Bombardment
Land
1x Battlefield Forge
1x Blood Crypt
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Fetid Heath
1x Gemstone Mine
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Scalding Tarn
1x Windswept Heath
2x Plains
3x Swamp
3x Mountain
1x Academy Ruins
1x Cogwork Librarian
1x Coiling Oracle
1x Deal Broker
1x Elite Vanguard
1x Geralf's Messenger
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Jeskai Ascendancy
1x Lore Seeker
1x Terramorphic Expanse
1x Tormented Hero
1x Young Pyromancer
This one has a little bit to slow down control (Thalia) but also is very well set up to recover from board wipes. Shrine and the manlands stick around through wraths, they've got multiple token makers to flood the board quickly, and between the Wargear and two Anthems you can expect to have even soemthing as innocent as Elite Vanguard matter on it's own after the board is cleared.
1x Elite Vanguard
1x Isamaru, Hound of Konda
1x Mardu Woe-Reaper
1x Mother of Runes
1x Savannah Lions
1x Soldier of the Pantheon
1x Student of Warfare
1x Azorius Guildmage
1x Imposing Sovereign
1x Precinct Captain
1x Soltari Trooper
1x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1x Hidden Dragonslayer
1x Mirran Crusader
1x Soltari Champion
1x Porcelain Legionnaire
Artifact
1x Shrine of Loyal Legions
1x Grafted Wargear
Instant
1x Midnight Haunting
Sorcery
1x Spectral Procession
Enchantment
1x Journey to Nowhere
1x Pacifism
1x Glorious Anthem
Enchantment Artifact
1x Spear of Heliod
Land
1x Mishra's Factory
1x Mutavault
14x Plains
1x Altac Bloodseeker
1x Balance
1x Brimaz, King of Oreskos
1x Council's Judgment
1x Day of Judgment
1x Deal Broker
1x Duress
1x Flickerwisp
1x Geralf's Messenger
1x Hero of Bladehold
1x Knight of the Reliquary
1x Oblivion Ring
1x Ophiomancer
1x Precursor Golem
1x Prophet of Kruphix
1x Prophetic Bolt
1x Reveillark
1x Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
1x Volrath's Stronghold
Stick the early threats, use the blue stuff to push your black guys through. Would've preferred a little more fixing on this one but you should be able to punch a lot of damage through.
1x Diregraf Ghoul
1x Sarcomancy
1x Tormented Hero
1x Vampire Lacerator
1x Dark Confidant
1x Looter il-Kor
1x Waterfront Bouncer
1x Flesh Carver
1x Gatekeeper of Malakir
1x Nightveil Specter
1x Pestermite
1x Pitiless Horde
1x Braids, Cabal Minion
1x Brutal Hordechief
1x Shriekmaw
1x Cursed Scroll
Instant
1x Mutagenic Growth
1x Far // Away
1x Hero's Downfall
Sorcery
1x Inquisition of Kozilek
1x Hymn to Tourach
Enchantment
1x Phyrexian Arena
Enchantment Creature
1x Gnarled Scarhide
1x Herald of Torment
Land
1x Underground Sea
1x Watery Grave
6x Island
8x Swamp
1x Bayou
1x Breeding Pool
1x Burning-Tree Emissary
1x Cold-Eyed Selkie
1x Contagion Clasp
1x Courser of Kruphix
1x Dragon Hunter
1x Elvish Mystic
1x Faithless Looting
1x Geralf's Messenger
1x Lore Seeker
1x Putrid Leech
1x Search for Tomorrow
1x Student of Warfare
1x Taiga
1x Torch Fiend
1x Windswept Heath
1x Wooded Foothills
1x Yavimaya Coast
However, I'm seeing a rash of decks like this
This I just don't understand at all. If you want Savannah Lions and Diregraf Ghoul, why don't you want Elite Vanguard and Carnophage?
1x Diregraf Ghoul
1x Savannah Lions
1x Blood Artist
1x Wall of Omens
1x Hero of Bladehold
1x Baneslayer Angel
1x Sun Titan
1x Sheoldred, Whispering One
Artifact
1x Sword of Light and Shadow
Instant
1x Dark Ritual
1x Path to Exile
1x Raise the Alarm
1x Hero's Downfall
1x Reanimate
1x Thoughtseize
1x Hymn to Tourach
1x Damnation
1x Wrath of God
Enchantment
1x Necromancy
Enchantment Artifact
1x Spear of Heliod
Land
1x Godless Shrine
1x Mishra's Factory
1x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1x Scrubland
1x Volrath's Stronghold
8x Plains
7x Swamp
1x Carnophage
1x Cursed Scroll
1x Deranged Hermit
1x Duress
1x Elite Vanguard
1x Gatekeeper of Malakir
1x Glorious Anthem
1x Mana Tithe
1x Nekrataal
1x Pernicious Deed
1x Porcelain Legionnaire
1x Reveillark
1x Rishadan Port
1x Rolling Earthquake
1x Sinkhole
1x Steppe Lynx
1x Supreme Verdict
1x Toxic Deluge
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Waterfront Bouncer
17 land aggro deck that's got great aggressive tools in it, but plays Sun Titan on top instead of Imposing Sovereign or Banisher Priest
1x Dragon Hunter
1x Isamaru, Hound of Konda
1x Soldier of the Pantheon
1x Steppe Lynx
1x Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Brimaz, King of Oreskos
1x Knight of the Reliquary
1x Bloodbraid Elf
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
1x Sun Titan
Planeswalker
1x Ajani Vengeant
1x Gideon Jura
Instant
1x Burst Lightning
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Lightning Bolt
1x Path to Exile
1x Boros Charm
1x Lightning Helix
1x Forked Bolt
1x Mizzium Mortars
Enchantment
1x Rancor
1x Banishing Light
Land
1x Battlefield Forge
1x Savannah
1x Stomping Ground
1x Windswept Heath
1x Wooded Foothills
1x Wooded Foothills
5x Plains
3x Mountain
3x Forest
1x Ankh of Mishra
1x Banisher Priest
1x Borderland Marauder
1x Char
1x Cogwork Librarian
1x Cultivate
1x Faithless Looting
1x Gore-House Chainwalker
1x Gray Merchant of Asphodel
1x Imposing Sovereign
1x Sarcomancy
1x Shrine of Burning Rage
1x Spike Jester
1x Uktabi Orangutan
1x Vengevine
1x Wrath of God
Leaving Winter Orb in the board and playing Sun Titan?
1x Elite Vanguard
1x Figure of Destiny
1x Mardu Woe-Reaper
1x Student of Warfare
1x Accorder Paladin
1x Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit
1x Precinct Captain
1x Soltari Trooper
1x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1x Mirran Crusader
1x Monastery Mentor
1x Soltari Champion
1x Hero of Bladehold
1x Cloudgoat Ranger
1x Sun Titan
1x Porcelain Legionnaire
Artifact
1x Cursed Scroll
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Loxodon Warhammer
Instant
1x Midnight Haunting
Enchantment
1x Journey to Nowhere
1x Banishing Light
1x Glorious Anthem
1x Oblivion Ring
Land
1x Rishadan Port
15x Plains
1x Arid Mesa
1x Blood-Chin Rager
1x Bloodsoaked Champion
1x Boon Satyr
1x Coiling Oracle
1x Dauthi Horror
1x Dreadbore
1x Fire Imp
1x Fireblast
1x Gavony Township
1x Gore-House Chainwalker
1x Intangible Virtue
1x Jackal Pup
1x Land Tax
1x Mogg War Marshal
1x Obstinate Baloth
1x Purphoros, God of the Forge
1x Wall of Blossoms
1x Winter Orb
1x Wolfir Avenger
Isamaru, Hound of Konda and Karn Liberated in the same deck. I don't understand.
1x Isamaru, Hound of Konda
1x Steppe Lynx
1x Azorius Guildmage
1x Looter il-Kor
1x Phantasmal Image
1x Precinct Captain
1x Blade Splicer
1x Hero of Bladehold
1x Cloudgoat Ranger
1x Meloku the Clouded Mirror
1x Reveillark
1x Consecrated Sphinx
1x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1x Karn Liberated
Artifact Creature
1x Porcelain Legionnaire
Artifact
1x Sword of Body and Mind
1x Sword of Feast and Famine
Instant
1x Force Spike
1x Memory Lapse
1x Remand
1x Secure the Wastes
Sorcery
1x Council's Judgment
Enchantment
1x Parallax Wave
1x Aether Adept
1x Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit
1x Cursed Scroll
1x Dark Ritual
1x Faithless Looting
1x Glorious Anthem
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Joraga Treespeaker
1x Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
1x Mirror Entity
1x Mishra's Factory
1x Prismatic Lens
1x Raging Ravine
1x Savannah
1x Spear of Heliod
1x Supreme Verdict
1x Thran Dynamo
1x Treetop Village
1x Tundra
1x Voidmage Prodigy
1x Wrath of God
1x Yavimaya Coast
Long story short: Lots and lots of different drafters (not the same people over and over) continue to build decks with 17 lands in them that have a few aggressive one drops and also play 6 and 7 drop haymakers. In most cases it feels like a solid aggro decks is present in the pool and people just couldn't bring themselves to play Imposing Sovereign over Sun Titan. In some particularly confusing instances people are only playing about half of the aggressive one drops they drafted.
Obviously I feel like I have gotten to the point that I understand aggro and that all of these example decks I've posted are bad decks. Am I wrong? Am I missing something that means I should be playing 6 drops in my Savannah Lions decks? What do you think an ideal aggro deck looks like? What would it take to get you to play Sun Titan and Isamaru in the same deck?
Finally: I tried to remove all names and links from these example decks, but if you drafted one of the decks I've held up as "bad", I'm not trying to shame you, I'm just trying to understand where these drafts are coming from.
Same here. I most recently cut the LD aspect of it (outside of smokestack and braids) because even when it comes together it doesn't always encourage the most fun gaming experiences. It'll be back, but for my playgroup at least everyone needs a break from getting totally locked out of the game once in a while.
With the printing of Sidisi, Undead Vizier we've gotten another playable zombie to go at the top of your curve. Does that push us into zombies as a playable archetype yet? If not, what are we missing, what are we looking for in future printings?
I think the real question is what does it take to make drafting a zombie theme worth it. Is recurring Gravecrawler and drawing more cards off of Graveborn enough? What does it take to make Cemetery Reaper a playable card? My cube at least is always on the lookout for playable graveyard hate, and he's so close. What would it take to make him a card worth drafting? Are there other payoffs for drafting a good zombie deck? I don't see Death Baron, Diregraf Captain, Ghoulraiser, Lord of the Undead, Unbreathing Horde, Endless Ranks of the Dead, Risen Executioner, or Undead Warchief to be quite good enough.
Here's the current lineup as I see it.
Zombies with Tribal Relevant abilities that are cubeable on their own
Gravecrawler
Graveborn Muse
Solid Cubeable Zombies
Carnophage
Sarcomancy
Carrion Feeder
Diregraf Ghoul
Fleshbag Marauder
Geralf's Messenger
Skinrender
Gray Merchant of Asphodel
Grave Titan (kinda)
Borderline Cubeable Zombies
Lifebane Zombie
Sidisi, Undead Vizier
Tidehollow Sculler
Stillmoon Cavalier
Lotleth Troll
Dreg Mangler
Wretched Anurid
Spiteful Returned
Curse of Shallow Graves
Xathrid Necromancer (kinda)
Liliana's Reaver
Moan of the Unhallowed
Borderline Zombies with Tribal abilities
Cemetery Reaper
From looking at this list my impression is that the zombie deck is missing playable two drop zombies to bridge the gap from Gravecrawler and friends to Messenger and friends. I seem to remember that being the problem with Zombies in standard too with those cards, but as a person who never plays standard, maybe I'm wrong about that. There are plenty of solid two mana zombies in multicolor, but I'm not sure the rewards are good enough to make you jump into white or green to get them.
Exactly. There are a lot of good G/W cards available out there, but they're competing for slots in your deck with all the existing good monocolored green and white cards. When judged on power alone there are much more powerful selesnya cards, but not that many that actively draw you into playing a G/W deck because they don't have unique enough effects to make splashing worth it. Why splash white in your green deck for Qasali Pridemage when green has Reclamation Sage and Acidic Slime and friends? Is Sigarda really that much better than the myriad of available 5 drops in green and white already? Sure you might draft her, and you might play her, but how much of an upgrade is she in your deck over the Gideon you ended up not playing?
Township isn't competing with those slots during deck construction, so you get to include it a lot more often.
It's worth noting that my personal cube construction has three things that may make township an easier include. I run two sets of fetches, so our manabases in general are just better than a singleton cube, I don't support g/w aggro, and I run a separate Hybrid section apart from my guild stuff so Kitchen Finks and Dryad Militant aren't competing with Township for a slot. I play 4 Selesnya slots: Township, Knight of the Reliquary, Qasali Pridemage, and Mirari's Wake.
I was a little surprised there wasn't an SCD for this card already. Some discussion in the Selesnya Thread, but even there not much.
With the printing of Titania, Protector of Argoth I started to push lands in my cube again. I brought back Knight of the Reliquary, Primeval Titan, Life from the Loam, etc. The first time through it was somewhat disappointing because there just weren't good enough things for Knight and Titan to do. So many of the lands worth tutoring up are too underwhelming to include in a cube draft that Knight just wasn't worth drafting. One of my drafters suggested including Township, which I did in place of a G/W spell (not a fixing land, as it provides no fixing), and it's been incredibly good.
Other Thoughts on the card? Are other people playing this, and how has it fared for you?
Not sure it'll make the cut but I'm definitely keeping my eye on it. This guy, Exalted Angel, and the 3 countermagic morphs could make for a very interesting UW section.
1W for a 2power lifelinker. Upside if you're willing to pay the extra mana, might actually provide some interesting hidden info if you bring back Exalted Angel. Thoughts?
5 mana for a 3/2 lifelinker that destroys a big creature is fairly good value
Better than Telling Time probably, slightly worse Impulse? Impulse feels like a staple to me, but I really like Instant Speed Draw so I could be overvaluing it. At what size does this become a card? At 465 I'm not quite sure on it.
Oh Hell Yeah
Unless I'm just old and the vast majority of magic players won't be making that reference.
It may depend on the structure of your cube. Right now my cube is really pushing tokens in RWB, with Ophiomancer and Mardu Strike Leader as relatively new additions to the black token producer section. I can definitely see this guy near the top of a token deck to trade a token for an anthem or something, and give you a reasonable body to deal with anything your 1/1's can't. Same if you are supporting pox.