MTG Salvation

Also in general if you're looking for Team America lists, I always lean towards whatever the most recent finish Dan has. He's the guy who originally created the deck and he really hasn't played anything else for more than a month in years. His lists are always well tuned and well thought out.

Honestly, the major problem is that you've never played it before, you just got into the archetype, and you've made dramatic changes to the list without (apparently) really understanding why the list is the way it is, and what the cards are for. I'll address each of your offbeat card choices below, but fundamentally you should just play this list for a little while and get the hang of it before starting to make changes.

1) Play 4 Delvers. There's a reason all lists do this now. The card is insane. Cut Dark Confidant, he's a great card but this isn't really his deck. He's much better in something like Jund that has access to Lightning Bolt as well which can help make sure confidant gets through. I know the guy who did well in the GP in Spain played some Confidants, but if you look at the real body of work the deck has, Confidant hasn't been great in the deck in years. Of course, you have Disfigure to play the lightning bolt route, which leads me to
2) Cut down to 1 Disfigure. 4 Abrupt Decays and 4 Disfigures is too many dead cards against creatureless matchups. If you want to kill lots of creatures, try RUG or something where you can load up on burn. This deck wants to stick a real threat and ride it out, not grind back and forth and get in with 2/1s on the ground.
3) This is a 4 Force of Will deck. Some Esper decks only play 3 because they have a much better late game plan than we do: Batterskull. We want to stick a threat and win with it, and Force helps you do that. You should be maindecking all 4, all the time.
4) Sinkhole's day in the sun ended the day Delver was printed. It was already not in the deck by that point, but that ended it. Sinkhole just doesn't do enough except in very specific matchups. If you look at the Top 8 decklist from GP Denver for Dan Signorini (the same guy whose Top 16 decklist I linked above for DC) you'll see Sinkholes in his board for just the Esper Control matchup. They were there to stop Lingering Souls and Jace and Batterskull, all the expensive stuff. Most decks don't play expensive stuff. You can't be playing Sinkholes in a format where T1 Ancient Tomb+Lotus Petal+Show and Tell ends the game. These should be discard, probably Hymn to Tourach.
5) The two Tombstalkers from Dan's list above can be TNN's if you prefer them, but honestly I don't think it makes much of a difference either way.
6) Play all 4 Ponders. This deck needs a lot of velocity, because you have a bunch of situational cards. Counterspells, targeted removal, discard. You've gotta get the right cards at the right time, and Ponder helps you do that.

If you look at Dan's list that I linked, the Disfigure and the Sylvan Library are the two flex slots. The two Tombstalkers need to be game ended creatures, it doesn't matter if they're Tombstalkers or True-Names. Then you can make the Disfigure and Library any combination of the following cards: Disfigure, Sylvan Library, Thoughtseize, Spell Pierce, Liliana of the Veil. Choose wisely for your expected metagame.

I know I'm being kind of harsh, but this deck has had a TON of development done on it, and while I encourage trying new things and exploring a bit, you really need to have quite a bit of experience with the deck before making wholesale changes (and yes, I consider cutting 1 Force of Will to be a "wholesale change". It's a very tight list). Honestly, though, the Sinkholes and Disfigures are sinking you. You've just got too many narrow cards in the maindeck.

Another red two drop. Most of red's big things coming down the road already have haste, but I see this guy doing great things in R/G decks, the same way Lightning Mauler does. Still, it is card disadvantage if you ever use the ability. Thoughts?

Generator Servant
1R
2/1
Creature - Elemental

Tap, Sacrifice Generator Servant: Add 2 to your mana pool. If that mana is spent on a creature spell, it gains haste until end of turn.

There's a mouthful for you. I know there are a few other Conspiracy Draft Sim threads out there but from reading them they all seem to be focused on maintaining the environment from conspiracy and still playing multiplayer with the cards. My group enjoyed the conspiracy draft a lot we did last night, and we added conspiracies and stuff to my regular cube and enjoyed them, but ultimately we don't enjoy multiplayer and conspiracy with the regular cube just felt gimmicky.

I'd like to build a draft environment we can cube with that uses the draft affecting cards and the conspiracies and then draft it. I'd like all the hidden agendas to actually be good, so I'd want a good number of multiples. I'd also like the draft to not be mappable, so you wouldn't know exactly what is in the draft, which means you'd need a huge cube to pull your 360/450 from.

Conspiracy has 89 commons, 68 uncmomons, 43 rares, and 10 mythics. Here are the different approaches I think I could take to building the cube.

A - Same rarity quantities as Conspiracy - 8 of each common, 4 of each uncommon, 2 of each rare, and 1 of each mythic. 1080 Total Cards. Probably a bit unwieldy, and if I'm drafting with 8 people, that's 720 cards that don't get drafted each time. Ultimately I think that's just too big.

B - Same rarity quantities as Conspiracy - 6 of each common, 3 of each uncommon, 2 of each rare, and 1 of each mythic. 902 Total Cards. Better, but still a bit large.

C - 79 Commons, 54 Uncommons, 37 Rares, 10 Mythics. 6 of Each common, 3 of each uncommon, 2 of each rare, 1 of each mythic. 720 Total Cards. Uncommon is still a bit closer to rare in rarity than I'd like, but if you're drafting 360 you're still very likely to see multiples of every common and it's very possible to completely miss any rare.

My exact questions, as I get started on this:

1) How do people think the Conspiracy and draft simulator cards will translate to a 1v1 environment? We did a draft with them with my regular cube and it was fun, but when built around and possible to really maximize the conspiracy cards I'm not sure.
2) Would option C as detailed provide enough diversity to create a real format? As described it'd be smaller than the smallest set ever created, which may not have the replayability that I'd like. Unfortunately from a logistics standpoint I'm not sure I could really do much more than that (plus, financially it'd be a bit of an issue too)
3) I assume I'd build like Wizards builds their sets nowadays, with each 2 color pair having a general buildaround type idea that you could go for, and try to have them overlap where possible. Any ideas for particularly interesting buildaround concepts that you could do in a format like this where you have multiples, but you couldn't do in a regular cube? My immediate thought is gravecrawler pox, a deck I've always wanted to play with more gravecrawlers, but honestly I don't think that would be enjoyed fully with our group, we get enough pox out of the regular cube so I want to go in other directions. Here are some ballpark starter ideas but I'm open to other concepts

R/U - Blitz (Nivix Cyclops/Nivmagus Elemental/Kiln Fiend) or Storm (Empty the Warrens). Leaning towards Blitz
R/W - Defenders (Vent Sentinel/Wall of Omens) or Aggro. Leaning towards Defenders.
R/G - Ramp or Aggro. Leaning towards Aggro if R/W is going to be defenders
R/B - Sacrifice (Furnace Celebration/Goblin Bombardment) Not sure how deep this is or how fun it is.
U/W - Blink (Venser/Mistemeadow/Wall of Omens). Wall of Omens crosses over nicely with defenders.
U/G - Flash (Prophet of Kruphix/Mystic Snake) or Ramp. Leaning towards Flash
U/B - Artifacts (Tezzeret, Baleful Strix)
W/G - Enchantress
W/B - Tokens and Anthems
G/B - Dredge

4) Logistically, how would you make packs? I figure I need to get a good color balance, but I'm also worried about 4 or 5 rare packs vs 0 rare packs, and worried about 3 of the same card in a pack.

Thoughts? Worth completing the mental exercise, or just a waste of time?

I'm gonna try him. Izzet is a guild full of playable cards that I like having in my deck and severely lacking in cards that make me want to move into Izzet. I wish he cost 4, but it's still a really neat card.

It's OK, but not particularly great. Daze is pretty bad in the matchup, and Rest in Peace shuts down almost every threat you have. You have Decay to deal with Counterbalance and RiP, but you still have to draw them.

Easily the best cards in the matchup are Liliana of the Veil and Sylvan Library. The standard TA list is 58 cards set almost in stone and then 2 flex slots. If your meta has tons of miracles, run either 1 of each in those slots or run 2 Liliana. I'd then run more in the board. They have real trouble answering those cards and if you can stick one they have to focus on answering it and you can set up a time to clock them with Stalker or something.

Quote from Udrew

Guys stop saying Serum Visions helps us finding bitterblossom, it's a good card ideed but even Ponder wasn't good at it during Lorwyn block, why Serum would be Modern material for us... If you have only 2 in the deck you are thinking at it as late draw not as turn1... Now that a decklist did top16 everybody are good on SOFAF while I said always it's the best sword for us if you want to run any sword...
The manabase is good vs Blood Moon but quite hard to cast a turn 1 discard spell, that's why he's playing spell snare and even more from sideboard. This setup is exposed to affinity even in postboarded games... Spellskite is a target for the same spells coming in for bitterblossom, at least remember it...

Can you explain to me how Serum Visions DOESN'T help us find bitterblossom? I don't understand your logic. Are you saying if there are only 2 we'll never have it on turn 1?

You will have hands with Serum Visions in them that don't have bitterblossom. In those cases, you get to look 3 cards deeper for a turn 2 bitterblossom than you would be able to look if you didn't have a cantrip.

8 Rack boarded it in against me. I led with T2 bitterblossom, he then used Wrench Mind, Ravens Crime, Funeral Charm, etc. to basically demolish my hand, then when we were both hellbent ripped it off the top.

Cruel Control also boarded it in against me. He cast something on my EOT (I don't remember what), I countered, he countered back, I countered back and won. Then he took his turn with me tapped out and slammed down Night. I untapped (lost a life with bitterblossom in play), and tried to set up a chance to deal with it. I had two Scion of Oona in hand, so I just needed to find a chance where I could EOT bounce the Night and then play both scions on my turn, but I got lucky enough to draw 3 cryptics, and he managed to counter all 3 of them when I tried to bounce. Since literally all he had to do was sit back and counter things while my bitterblossom slowly killed me, it didn't go well for me.

I was dead set against the serum visions from my experience with the deck back in extended and standard, but the more important bitterblossom seemed, the more I was willing to try it out. Honestly, the deck is all about turns 2 and 4. If that's the case, 1CMC cantrips do a great job of setting them up on turns 1 and 3. I did trim a Tar Pit when I brought them in because it's serving a similar role on those turns. Turn 3 you can play tar pit and have 2 mana up, or you can play an untapped land and play visions and have 2 mana up.

It's still no preordain/ponder/brainstorm, and maybe it'd be better as the two Swords or Lilianas or whatever other people are playing in those slots, but I felt like it helped my inconsistencies and let me adjust better to a wide open metagame game one. I bottomed removal against Cruel Control, countermagic against Affinity, and Mistbinds when I had 3 mana and no faeries.

I took this list to 6-3 at GP Richmond.



R1 - Bye

R2 - 8-Rack. Loss - 1-1
Lost to infinite discard and Night of Soul's Betrayal

R3 - R/G Tron. Loss - 1-2
Assembled Tron on turn 3 both games. Game 2 went T1 Tower, T2 Plant, Defense Grid, T3 Mine, Torpor Orb, something else.

R4 - 4color Gifts Win - 2-2
Finally a blue deck! This one was easy. He never drew gifts, I countered all of his relevant spells and played early bitterblossoms

R5 - RUG Twin Win - 3-2
Got stuck on 3 mana game 2 and ended up losing that one with a mitt full of mistbinds, but otherwise this matchup is just so good it went really well for me

R6 - Bogles Win - 4-2
Got lucky on this one since my board wasn't prepared to beat it. Opponent punted game one and then punted again game two. Gotta get lucky occasionally to do well at these

R7 - Pyromancer Storm siding into Splinter Twin Win - 5-2
Another blue deck, another win. Lost game 2 with mana leak, mana leak, doom blade, doom blade, spellstutter, spellstutter in hand and only 3 lands. He was able to develop his manabase to the point that EOT tapping down my mana sources with exarch and twin left him open to combo off, but when I drew mana again in game 3 I managed to squeak out a win.

R8 - Cruel Control Loss - 5-3
This was the most painful loss of the day. This matchup should be great for us, and I just got outplayed. I misread his available mana and didn't keep up countermagic for cruel ultimatum game 1, and then kept a bad hand I should've mulliganed game two and got punished when he slammed night of soul's betrayal and then protected it from 3 separate attempts to cryptic bounce it.

R9 - Affinity Win - 6-3
I expected Affinity to be a horrible matchup like most aggro decks, but given this configuration it really isn't. I tested quite a bit against a friend of mine who ended up 12-3 with the deck, and it's at least 50/50. You have so many fliers and after you resolve any sort of sweeper Spellstutter just counters everything they can possibly play. Living to turn 4 isn't as hard as I thought it would be with the removal and chump blocking package. Manlands can be a problem, but they're not too horrible. Spellskite is great at messing with Ravager.

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A few notes on the deck

- I played two Scion of Oona even though it's not a super popular choice right now. I actually tried Pestermite at first but I like Scion a little better. Ultimately I just wanted more faeries. Spellstutter and Mistbind weren't cards unless I drew Bitterblossom, and by playing 2 more faeries I increase the odds of being able to cast them at relevant times, and with extra creatures up in case of instant speed removal in response to their triggers
- I'm playing two Serum Visions even though historically Faeries hasn't wanted cantrips. Ultimately I found that Bitterblossom matters more to faeries now than it ever has, my win percentages were just SO much better with it. As a result I wanted to increase my velocity through the deck a little and give myself some selection. This also helps to make sure I see enough faeries. I was very happy with them all day (even though I wish they were preordains)
- The 1of Vapor Snag was inspired by the monoblue list posted here on Friday, and I was really happy with it. I vapor snagged my own Spellstutter to counter a crucial spell in one match, I snagged a Scion to save it from removal, I snagged a Master of etherium to dramatically change combat math in my favor, and I snagged a Pestermite in reponse to Splinter Twin when I only had 1 blue mana up and my opponent thought the way was obviously clear. I really liked that it was never dead, even against Cruel Control.
- I cut Engineered Explosives from the board, because the only matchup I wanted it was against Bogles. There wasn't enough 1drop zoo out there to make it good, everyone was playing big zoo, and it was pretty mediocre there. Without it you basically chalk up the bogles matchup though. I got really lucky to win that match. I cut the two explosives for the Go for the Throat (so I'd have at least 1 out in the 75 to Obliterator) and Threads of Disloyalty (because the card is insanely good).
- Snapcaster in the board was an experiment I was happy with. Ultimately my maindeck was varied enough that he wasn't always good because I didn't always draw one of the 4 cheap counterspells or 5 cheap removal spells he could flashback. However, postboard once I'd increased my density of removal he was always great because he always had a target and the body mattered against aggro decks. In several of my sideboard plans that didn't end up mattering because I didn't face the decks he was a great creature to bring in when you had more stuff to cut than you really had to change.

A few things I might change

- I never cast Deathmark all day. I also didn't face zoo or melira pod, so that's just the way it is, but I think the format is a bit too broad for such a narrow card. I think a better approach might be to replace the 2 deathmarks with a Vapor Snag and a 3rd Damnation. Then against the green decks you can bounce and tempo them until you get to damnation, and blow them out.
- I initially was really against the idea of Liliana in Faeries, but I think some answer to Bogles is probably necessary, and I like her better than EE in that role because sacrifice is better against Totem Armor than Destroy is (which is why the Damnations can be pretty awkward in that role). Perhaps in the two flex slots (Go for the Throat and Threads), since she's also a viable answer to Obliterator if you can keep the rest of the board clear. I'm not sold on her in the maindeck because we so rarely have cards we want to discard.
- I'd really like to try a Temple of Deceit in place of the Sunken Ruins. Ruins is really awkward with 5 colorless lands already in the deck, and scrying would be really good for us. I don't want to overdo it on the ETBT lands, but since I only played 3 Tar Pits, I think a single Temple might be just fine.

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Anyway those are my thoughts on the deck. I had a blast. 67% of my match losses were to Night of Soul's Betrayal, and I made several poor decisions in both of those matches that helped make sure the enchantment killed me. I think a list very similar to what I played could do very well in the format as it is currently aligned.

What are people's thoughts on sideboarding vs. Melira Pod? That match seems incredibly winnable, but other than Spell Snare there really aren't any obvious cuts. Do we want discard to fight over pod and the ETB creatures, and if so, do we want to side in more discard? I suspect we want sweepers, but EE isn't great because their numbers are all over the place (although they do have a lot of 1's)

I lost a match in 3 close games last night to it and couldn't help but feel it was because I boarded wrong. Still trying to figure out what my board should be, so I'm wondering what cards people think are actually bad in the matchup and what cards people think are really good out of the board.

I'm not convinced Chalice would be that good vs. Living End. The version I played against had 4 Beast Withins main and was siding in Ingot Chewers to try and fight artifact based graveyard hate.

I mean, I guess if he's killing my Chalice with Beast Within instead of my land, that's good.

@billyofcourse: Only one of us looks quite goofy, and it's you. You should actually read my post before assuming I'm an idiot. I specifically said I was originally planning to only play Grafdigger's Cage because I thought Living End was fine. Meaning I didn't think I would need graveyard hate against Living End, and so I could afford to play graveyard hate that didn't affect Living End.

@Eyron: How are you hitting your first four land drops reliably against a deck that destroys your land on turn 3? I'm just not seeing it happen. I'd love to play all my creatures with enough mana for counter backup, but what happens is I'm scratching and clawing to have 2 or 3 lands. Then I pass the turn with 2 mana up to counter their spell, and at my EOT they cast Violent Outburst. Sure, I have counter mana now, and I can counter the living end, but then THEY untap and I don't, and they get a free shot that I can't stop.

Understood, but that's still not as good as what we had before (God I sound old. Get off my lawn).

I don't want a daily digest at the end of my day. I want to get an email ONCE when a thread I'm subscribed to is updated. Immediately. I just don't need to get 76 more emails when more posts are made before I get back. I've already gotten one notification that the thread is active. That's really enough.

I tested quite a bit this afternoon and was disappointed to find that our Living End matchup wasn't nearly as good as I expected. I was originally planning to play only Grafdigger's Cage as my graveyard hate because I expected Living End to be a fine matchup and I wanted the edge against Pod, but now I'm not so sure.

I played probably 20 games, and essentially most of them played out like this. I'd get 2-3 lands down and he would play a 3CMC land destruction spell, either Fulminator Mage or Beast Within. I'd either lose a land or burn a counterspell trying to protect them. Then after a turn or two of that, he'd play Violent Outburst on my end step, I'd counter Living End, and he'd untap and cast another Outburst or a Dread, and it would resolve because I was tapped out.

Discard wasn't particularly helpful. If I cast it on turn 1, it didn't have much effect on what his hand would look like by turn 4 or 5 because of all the cycling. That deck just sees SO many cards. I'd often end up seeing hands with 2-3 cascade spells in them and no good targets to take. More than once I would Clique or cast a discard spell and he'd Violent Outburst in response.

What have people's actual testing results with this matchup been like? I just expected it to be good because of Spellstutter, and that honestly wasn't the case. Interested to hear how the matches have gone for other people and what your sideboards look like as a result.