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  • posted a message on [POLL] What cards do you want banned or unbanned in the June 14, 2017 announcement?
    I find it ironic listening to blue players cry about color diversity when for years in Legacy it was a blue format and blue players told others to deal with it. I dont know why Modern has to have color diversity. Other formats dont. What makes Modern so special?

    Wotc, if you are reading this, dont change a thing. The format is as good as its been since the inception of the format.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on What's Wrong With Today's Magic?
    I don't know much about other formats, but here's wrong with THE format that I play - Modern.
    1. We have players here that have come to the realization that Wizards does not want Counterspell to ever hit Standard or Modern. Yet, Wizards is trying to find a way to make a better Thoughtseize and Inquisition of Kozilek, another creature that "if it goes to the graveyard from anywhere, put back onto the battlefield tapped" creature, and a (Green) creature that will put Thragtusk to shame. To put it more succinctly, Counterspell is silly broken for Modern, but a 1GG 4/3 flying, haste, first strike, trample, cannot be countered (by what, Wizards?) is completely fine, not just for Modern, but for Standard and Limited as well.
    2. Too many bans. Standard received a ridiculous amount of bans, then the Cat after the deadline. It was definitely the right ban after those other ones. And Aetherworks Marvel is also the right ban now. Poor Wizards, losing consumer confidence and all...
    3. Too many other things to get into, but there is a silver lining.
    The silver lining is that Magic is in a really good spot right now. Are there things that could be better? Yes, it is so for anything that is worth doing.


    We both have been in conversations in the Modern forum about these points.

    Wotc has painted themselves into a corner, and to get out they are going ot have to make a portion of the player base upset and possibly want t stop playing the game. There is no way Wotc can dig themselves out of this without stepping on some toes and hurting some feelings.

    Does the majority of the current player base enjoy the spell side or the creature side of the current game? If its the creature side, those spell players are going to be pretty mad. If its the spell side, we possibly go back to lower attendance numbers, the way it was when spells were king, at events and possibly less LGS depending on how its handled. How would you like to be running a company and have to decide between those 2 possibilities?

    Standard is in a bad place, but lets not pretend its never been there before. Its been there many times. The only way is up from here. It may take a bit, but Wotc has to straighten out Standard before they can worry about anything else. period.

    I agree Magic is in a decent spot even with everything wrong with it at the moment. But I only draft and play Modern, and I think Modern is the best its ever been at this moment.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on What's Wrong With Today's Magic?
    Quote from Lilijuana »
    You know of LGS owners engaged in market manipulation? That's what I read from your second paragraph.


    Watch the big name LGS on line stores when big B&R announcements come around. The number of certain cards, those cards possibly could come off the ban list, all of a sudden become very scarce. The with in a day or 2 after the announcement, those same cards have multiple play sets available. You tell me. Hard to prove though. Happens more in the local LGS ranks, but again, hard to prove.

    If you are talking about the stores that know the cycles of card prices and they buy low and sit on them until the price spikes. I dont think thats price manipulation. I think thats good business.

    I know of a certain store owner that would weight packs to find foils and another that had 1000's of a few certain cards hoping to make the price to go up. But say something to Wotc and its very hard to prove. Its a he said he said thing.

    "Market manipulation is a deliberate attempt to interfere with the free and fair operation of the market and create artificial, false or misleading appearances with respect to the price of, or market for, a security, commodity or currency. Market manipulation is prohibited in most countries, in particular, it is prohibited in the United States under Section 9(a)(2)[1] of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934..."

    "I know LGS owners that buy up new cards for 3 months after they are released. They never see the case in the store or the on line shop. They just hoard them knowing they are going tp make their money back in multiples. now if they have done this with every set and they see the prices start to go up and break out those cards, a few play sets at a time, they make money hand over fist ... and the cycle repeats itself. This is how long time, older LGS have stayed in business for so long. They understand the market and understand how to make money off the market. Change that market, its going ot effect the LGS profit margins, in turn will hurt some LGS. "

    By hoarding product, never putting product in the case, and putting only a few play sets at a time up for sale they are engaged in creating an artificial, false, and misleading picture of the market for MtG singles. They are creating an impression both that supply is not enough to meet demand, and that demand is higher than it is in reality. If even TWO LGS are doing this in concert with one another, it is collusion and price fixing. When market manipulation and price fixing occur, it is the customers/consumers who bear the brunt of the damage, and they do so financially. If you'd like to learn more, go review the 1970's oil "crisis" fueled by OAPEC, and the 2000's energy "crisis" in California caused by a collusion of energy providers in the US. Thanks for bringing it to our attention, Bo. You've done a great service to the MtG player community here and everywhere.


    How if they are still selling those few playsets at TCG mid like every other store is? This is not market manipulation.

    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on [POLL] What cards do you want banned or unbanned in the June 14, 2017 announcement?
    My 2 cents, from someone who could careless about whats going on in the top level competitive Magic, the format at the local level is outstanding. 30-50 player events with 25-40 different decks being played. Yes some are fringe decks but its better then playing the same deck over and over round after round.

    I voted dont mess with the format in any way. Bans or unbans.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on What's Wrong With Today's Magic?
    I am going to answer these questions...

    1) How did they get the cards?
    2) How long did they keep the cards stored before selling?
    3) Exactly how many cards did the sell in one month of premium cards?
    4) What are these premium cards? Because I can tell you right now no one is making money off of mythics and rares at the high costs unless they were speccing and not actually selling cards the way that should be done. At least not at the level that can support an LGS strictly on those sales.


    1. Either players are trading in to get other cards they need, buying collections, buying draft fodder that the player doesnt want or need and would rather have the store credit.
    2. They are selling enough premium cards to keep the doors open. I know of one collection the bought mainly all playable rares and mythics maybe 5000-7000 cards that spanned Legacy, Modern, and Standard at the time. The sold the whole collection piece meal in less then a month. Many people bought large amounts of what was in the collection.
    3. As I said above, the store stays open and all they sell is premium cards. They dont deal in commons or uncommons. The owners said there is too much competition with the lower rarity cards. He usually has the rares and mythics other LGS dont have or cant get.
    4. I am talking about Legacy and Modern staples. Goyfs, LotV, fetches, shocks, duals. He dabbles in some of the Standard playables but only because they started doing drafts. He is very selective in what he buys. He only buys cards he knows he can sell in a short period of time.

    The more you keep going on about this the more it seems like you know less about the situation with card sales than you are letting on. Assuming the stores were speccing, the best specs for profit are the small fry that are relatively low cost cards


    Well, part of the confusion is you keep jumping around. You talk about Modern staples then you are talking about new product. Those are 2 markets handled 2 different ways. The older cards turn over very quickly. If you hold a Goyf or LotV or fetch land for a month, something is wrong either with your pricing or you are not catering to your crowd. The store may be more a Standard crowd that wont touch the Modern and Legacy staples.

    New product, LGS only have a set amount of time to buy up cheap the new cards before they increase in price at rotation. Right now LGS are buying INN2 block because when Zen rotates out, those INN cards will jump in price. Some what so with Kal block too but not as much.

    Card saturation is really not an issue. If you know where to look, you can find what ever you need. If you know the right people, and you cant find what you need, they can.

    My stance is the secondary market is the best its been in years. There are multiple places to get the cards you need. There is money to be made by all. This works for both the player base and the business's that rely on the game. Tanking the market like you wish to do will be bad for the game as a whole. It will drive a group of players out of the game. It will cut into prize monies for events, pushing people away from the competitive scene. I remember back when packs were 2.75-3.00 a pack and drafting was 9-10 bucks, but there wasnt but 2 or 3 cards that could cover the cost of the buy in and prize was half your entry fee if you won the event, no one wanted to draft. Today pricing is much better. You can be a new drafter and still not lose your shirt by not doing well and still learn something along the way.

    Again, Wotc has gone your route. It didnt work for them as a business. That is why we are where we are at now. If they went back, they would be failing the game as a whole. Not just the player base, but the LGS and T.O.'s too.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on What's Wrong With Today's Magic?
    Quote from Colt47 »
    Also it sounds like you missed the point on the paragraph. Of course you can eBay cards and go to tcgplayer or what have you. But have you ever stopped to ponder how, despite a lack of product being pushed to stores, those sellers keep high demand cards in stock?

    The fact is the supply of cards on the second hand market is finite. When a place like channel fireball runs out of an out of print card, they use a buy list to get more of that card stocked. Since most of those cards are also in high demand players don't want to give up on them without a premium, so stores have to offer high rates. When the store does this and gets the cards, they then have to sell those back at a profit, which has to include overhead for the shipping and card protection. Since the cards being sold are so expensive, there aren't a lot of buyers so they may make 6 dollars off a chalice of the void if they are lucky in one month.

    If the cards are supplied properly and the prices brought down, it increases the number of potential buyers and thus helps the store since now they can make multiple sales, so profits go from 6 dollars on one copy sold to 50 or 60 USD from 20 copies at a lower overhead. That is what supporting an LGS looks like. Players may see devaluation, but in exchange they get greater accessibility.

    High cost cards in modern are literally bad for every single party except investors and speculators. Also, even if a store decides to sit on cards after buy listing as part of a speculation, they still have to pay for storage, which may not be an issue for major sellers, but small LGS tend to be different in that regard.


    The reason large on line LGS like CFB cant keep premium cards in stock is because of their buy prices. Why would you sell to CFB or another big online store when you can sell on Ebay and put more in your pocket. But those cards they do get, they make huge profit off of. They dont have to sell the number of commons and uncommons when they can sell a couple dozen premium cards. I know of a few LGS that only sells premium cards. Meaning cards over $20. They make a killing. Usually they are the only place locally to buy such cards. Also, with on line cards, the stores some times pull cards to see effects of different things. meta changes, ban announcements. This is how the market has worked since its inception.

    You again show your lack of knowledge of the market. The long time LGS owners know the cycle for new cards from new sets. They understand certain cards are a bargin in the beginning because they are going to go up. Mainly rare lands. They also know which planeswalkers are going to see play. I know LGS owners that buy up new cards for 3 months after they are released. They never see the case in the store or the on line shop. They just hoard them knowing they are going tp make their money back in multiples. now if they have done this with every set and they see the prices start to go up and break out those cards, a few play sets at a time, they make money hand over fist ... and the cycle repeats itself. This is how long time, older LGS have stayed in business for so long. They understand the market and understand how to make money off the market. Change that market, its going ot effect the LGS profit margins, in turn will hurt some LGS.

    Cheaper cards will only help the players who cant afford them now. No one else. Its going to hurt everyone else involved with the game.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on State of Modern Thread: bans, format health, metagame, and more! (3/13 update)
    Quote from bocephus »

    Its kind of like the talk about JTMS and SFM coming off the ban list. When a person says those cards are dead to the format and they have other formats they can be played in. I dont think they are even considering ever unbanning them no matter what they say to appease the hivemind on twitter.

    I believe that Wizard's reps say things ambiguously on purpose to leave room to change their minds. They changed their minds on Sword of the Meek, which supposedly was going to power up Lantern Control "too much." There were many times during Modern that they probably felt like Stoneforge Mystic and Jace, the Mind Sculptor would have been too strong. I personally feel that those feelings are closer to 50/50 either way right now. If their goal is to appease certain types of Modern players and mix up the meta, then those unbans could definitely do so.

    I compare it to Preordain. Could you imagine if Preordain was banned previous to Rite of Flame Storm or Twin? It certainly isn't right to unban it in that scenario. Flash to today's meta. Preordain is not really going to affect much, other than making a super consistent deck in Storm more consistent and make a "not so consistent" deck in Ad Nauseam more consistent. In fact, it helps Ad Nauseam quite a bit. I don't know if it would make metagame numbers on Ad Nauseam go up from their 1% to much more than 5%, but to me at least, it doesn't seem like it will polarize much - DISCARD is King in Modern right now and I don't see Preordain affecting that much. Brainstorm, on the other hand... Grin


    I take your point, but there is a huge difference in saying a card has a grave in Modern and can be played in other formats, and this card may power up a fringe deck too much.

    I personally think there is a group of cards on the list that will never come off the list, but Wotc will never come out and say it because a portion of the player base would be up in arms their pet banned card is never going to be playable in the format.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on What's Wrong With Today's Magic?
    Quote from Humphrey »
    still reading and agreeing with most of the stuff said on the first 5 pages ^^

    What i think needs the game now is to fire MaRo and get Garfield back to the game. Innistrad one and Timespiral were the outstanding sets from the last 10 years and both of them Garfield was involved. MaRo is just the poisonous steward with really bad ideas.


    I was going to point out what Lord Seth did so I will skip that part.

    You do realize Timespiral as a block sold terribly and was considered a failure by Wotc.

    I think this is a clear situation where the player wants or needs something different then the company.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on What's Wrong With Today's Magic?
    Quote from Colt47 »
    Quote from bocephus »
    Quote from Colt47 »
    Quote from ElAzar »
    Yes, it is. But their goal for modern might be a different goal than you have for the format.
    They don´t want it to grow too much, rather keep it at a stable size. They have no problem with people prized out of the format for that reason.


    Okay, let's support modern by printing tons of draft cards no one wants, sprinkle it with cards that desperately need restocking, saddle sellers with tons of product they can't sell and force them to have to buy list the cards every player is after even if they are narrowly focused because players in modern mostly net deck or community think tank, and slowly drive prices up with time because the sellers need to turn a profit on cards that are both limited on the market and have a shrinking number of buyers because of rising costs.

    So much for LGS support there. Oh and amonkhet is literally making no money for the singles market either, which a ton of LGS depend on.


    You really dont understand the singles market.

    The newest sets are meant for moving sealed product. Its all about selling packs and boxes. That is done through drafts and sealed events along with those who desire to buy boxes to get that thrill of cracking packs. Amonkhet singles will start selling well when the print run stops. When new interactions from new sets come out and interact with Amonkhet. Whatch which cards spike in price when rotation comes around. It is not the new set cards, its the cards from sets between the new set and the block rotating out. Usually those sets are out of print, and are not being cracked for limited events so supply is drying up. LGS are stocking up on Amonkhet now, because they know in a few months they will be in demand.

    As for supporting Modern. They are doing more now for Modern then they ever did for Legacy simply with the masters sets every other year. Modern should feel lucky to get 1-3 cards out of every set printed. Ask Legacy players how many sets they had to go before they might have gotten 1 addition or upgrade. Granted there was a period of time around Alara where there were multiple upgrades for almost all the played creatures from days of old. But Legacy was already over a decade old by then.

    Wotc could never print another master set or reprint of staple cards for Modern and Modern would never die. Granted players like you would be upset, but the format would continue. In all honesty, Modern does not need reprints or the support you desire for it to continue. As its been mentioned before, Modern can not be the #1 format for the company. Wotc can not let that happen, and we are seeing how they have chosen to keep the format in check. Like it or not.


    Copying the missing part of the quote...

    The only reason the system worked for 20 years, as Bocephus put it, is because the mtg community was smaller and card demand more spread out. Around 2011-2012 the impact of the games growth began to show as more people entered the game, and with competitive mtg being popular those people looked for an easy jumping off point. This lead to more and more demand on specific singles since those players would find winning deck lists and focus buying those cards. Meanwhile, wizards kept going business as usual and printing draft and limited without addressing the stress caused by the online card listings.


    You added that little bit after I wrote my response. Dont try and make it look like I ignored it.

    As to the last paragraph you added, I disagree. The secondary market works better now then it ever has. Any card you want is on Ebay or one of thousands of MTG LGS online stores. Back in the day you only had your local LGS or large events or trading. The Mythic rarity and how most of them turned out to be playable in constructed formats, which was not how they were originally marketed has effected a very small portion of cards. Wotc does not have an obligation to print older cards just because a player cant afford those on the market now. You complain about reprints for Modern like the reprint issue has never been a problem in the game before. Legacy had the exact same problem and players played lower tier decks to save up, trade up, and work up to those higher tier decks.

    I will admit, the secondary market is another part of the MTG experience some players dont always want to take the time to learn or even understand. That is not Wotc's fault.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on State of Modern Thread: bans, format health, metagame, and more! (3/13 update)
    Quote from wpgstevo »
    Quote from bocephus »
    Quote from wpgstevo »
    Did you see the sam stoddard quote (from last week's mailbag article I think) where he states that Miscalculation is too powerful for standard? It seemed to imply that a counterspell good enough for modern is not going to happen. So while I have some hope from their earlier statement about stronger answers, it seems like they stepped back from that by denouncing Miscalculation as too strong.


    That has been known for a while, players just refuse to accept it. Maro stated years ago when cancel became the go to unconditional counter that they Wotc were not going to print an unconditional 2 mana counter in Standard any more. Double blue is not considered a condition with the mana bases we have in Modern.
    Right...
    Except that recently WotC (march?) released an article acknowledging that answers have been too weak compared to threats in standard, and that they intended to make stronger answer cards. I think it was quite reasonable to therefore conclude a stronger counterspell was possible - a departure from the previous paradigm.

    This Sam Stoddard comment closed the door on that to some extent. They have not said directly that they intended to print counterspell in standard, but it wasn't so unreasonable to hope that better answers might mean something like counterspell comes back.


    Acknowledging something and changing their previous stance are 2 very different things. Until they actually make a statement saying they are going to rethink how they were thinking 3-4 years ago or print something that goes directly against their previous stance. I am not holding my breath for change. Like has been mentioned, Wotc has had multiple chances with multiple new mechanics to try and get a 'conditional' 'unconditional' 2 mana counter into Standard and in Modern.

    Its kind of like the talk about JTMS and SFM coming off the ban list. When a person says those cards are dead to the format and they have other formats they can be played in. I dont think they are even considering ever unbanning them no matter what they say to appease the hivemind on twitter.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on What's Wrong With Today's Magic?
    Quote from Colt47 »
    Quote from ElAzar »
    Yes, it is. But their goal for modern might be a different goal than you have for the format.
    They don´t want it to grow too much, rather keep it at a stable size. They have no problem with people prized out of the format for that reason.


    Okay, let's support modern by printing tons of draft cards no one wants, sprinkle it with cards that desperately need restocking, saddle sellers with tons of product they can't sell and force them to have to buy list the cards every player is after even if they are narrowly focused because players in modern mostly net deck or community think tank, and slowly drive prices up with time because the sellers need to turn a profit on cards that are both limited on the market and have a shrinking number of buyers because of rising costs.

    So much for LGS support there. Oh and amonkhet is literally making no money for the singles market either, which a ton of LGS depend on.


    You really dont understand the singles market.

    The newest sets are meant for moving sealed product. Its all about selling packs and boxes. That is done through drafts and sealed events along with those who desire to buy boxes to get that thrill of cracking packs. Amonkhet singles will start selling well when the print run stops. When new interactions from new sets come out and interact with Amonkhet. Whatch which cards spike in price when rotation comes around. It is not the new set cards, its the cards from sets between the new set and the block rotating out. Usually those sets are out of print, and are not being cracked for limited events so supply is drying up. LGS are stocking up on Amonkhet now, because they know in a few months they will be in demand.

    As for supporting Modern. They are doing more now for Modern then they ever did for Legacy simply with the masters sets every other year. Modern should feel lucky to get 1-3 cards out of every set printed. Ask Legacy players how many sets they had to go before they might have gotten 1 addition or upgrade. Granted there was a period of time around Alara where there were multiple upgrades for almost all the played creatures from days of old. But Legacy was already over a decade old by then.

    Wotc could never print another master set or reprint of staple cards for Modern and Modern would never die. Granted players like you would be upset, but the format would continue. In all honesty, Modern does not need reprints or the support you desire for it to continue. As its been mentioned before, Modern can not be the #1 format for the company. Wotc can not let that happen, and we are seeing how they have chosen to keep the format in check. Like it or not.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on State of Modern Thread: bans, format health, metagame, and more! (3/13 update)
    Quote from wpgstevo »
    Did you see the sam stoddard quote (from last week's mailbag article I think) where he states that Miscalculation is too powerful for standard? It seemed to imply that a counterspell good enough for modern is not going to happen. So while I have some hope from their earlier statement about stronger answers, it seems like they stepped back from that by denouncing Miscalculation as too strong.


    That has been known for a while, players just refuse to accept it. Maro stated years ago when cancel became the go to unconditional counter that they Wotc were not going to print an unconditional 2 mana counter in Standard any more. Double blue is not considered a condition with the mana bases we have in Modern.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on What's Wrong With Today's Magic?
    Quote from Colt47 »
    Seriously, the only thing printing land sets in masters boxes would do at worst, is move the value of standard cards from the mana base more towards the non-land spells.


    Outside of mono colored decks, mana base has always been the most expensive part of multicolored decks.

    Why must you continue to try and change something that has been working for 20+ years?

    You are only thinking of the players in this thinking. You are not thinking of the loss the lGS takes on the singles he sells. You are not thinking about the monetary loss the players collection takes. Do you think people taking these losses are going to be happy about it? If your answer is you dont care, then why should those people care you cant afford to play the deck you wish to?
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on What's Wrong With Today's Magic?
    Quote from crimhead »
    Quote from bocephus »

    There have always been poor sports in this game. Dont make it out to be something new.

    Of course, but WotC didn't alter the game to cater to the poor sports until the dawn of NWO (which is why people use the term NWO to refer to this broad change in design philosophy).

    Quote from bocephus »

    Wotc will cater to that side that makes them the most money. Period.

    Their newbies-first design has been serving them well for several years plus.
    I believe this is catching up to them. Obviously neither you nor I can show WotC that one philosophy will earn more dough than the other. If WotC decides their current model is not succeeding, they will do their own market research and decide what changes are in order.
    You and I can only speculate based on our experiences.

    I've also been playing the game since 1994, and I have noticed recently more complaints about the midrange/creature push than ever before (since NWO). Maybe they will "take that to heart"?
    You seem awfully certain they will not (for some reason).

    Quote from Colt47 »
    People who kept their legacy collections are living in a paradise compared to what people are having to deal with right now.
    Amen. I feel badly for new (and returning) players who want to play Legacy but don't have cards.


    But why did Wotc feel it was needed to change the game? And once they changed the mentality of the game, more people started to play. Attendance numbers went up, prize for events went up, prices for singles went up. From the business side, the change did exactly want it was intended to do for the game.

    As for changes in the future, the only way we see any drastic changes is if they start seeing large drops in sales and attendance. As long as those 2 things stay relatively stable, we wont see too much of a change. Like I said, they tried it like you want it and they know the numbers, they know it sells to a certain group, but not as wide as it does now, or I should say has up till Khans/Return Zen. The issue is how many are complaining about this mid range creature centric format? is it 1%, 5%, 25%? At what percent does Wotc take it to heart?

    The way I see it, the people complaining about how Magic is today, are the same players who were telling players to be quiet when they complained about Caw blade in Standard or that Legacy was a blue dominated format. The tides have turned and the shoe is on the other foot and those who who were telling those disgruntled players in the pass to suck it up, are now being told that exact same thing and they dont like it.

    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on What's Wrong With Today's Magic?
    Quote from Colt47 »
    Quote from bocephus »
    Quote from crimhead »
    Quote from bocephus »
    When the Wotc rep comes around and 5 out or 8 of the guys at the table are all complaining about different interactions and different decks, yes it was that bad. Enough must have been complaining that Wotc took it to heart because they have gone away from all hose decks people were complaining about.

    That all said, there is a clear division in the player base. There are those that wish for a more spell based game like it was in the late 90s...

    ...There really is no way to please both sides.

    So...
    If enough of the players start complaining about a lack of different interactions and different decks, it would make sense for them to ramp up on spells and non-midrange deck support?

    You seem to be in full support of WotC having changed the game to suit the complainers 15-20 years ago; but in zero support of any changes which cater to today's players complaining the opposite?

    You say "There really is no way to please both sides", but seem to imply that their only reasonable choice is to continue to please your side.


    I am a long time player, since the inception of the game, and I think todays Magic is heads and shoulders better then the game of yesteryear. I couldnt stand constructed formats back in the late 90s early 00s. I was strictly a limited player, mainly drafting. Then Wotc started caring about limited and refining the game to appease the majority. We saw an increase of players and attendance spike. Sales went though the roof for 6 or 7 years starting on 08-09.

    All that being said, I understand Wotc cant please both parties. Its an either or. Wotc will cater to that side that makes them the most money. Period. Show Wotc 'your' type of Magic will bring more into the game, sell more packs, keep attendance as high or higher then it is now. Maybe Wotc will change their thinking. But Wotc has already tried it your way and they know the numbers.

    On a side note, I think Wotc should only care about Standard and Limited. (I think a lot of the problems started when Wotc started worrying about more then Standard and limited.) They should allow a company like SCG or TCG take over the older formats and regulate them. This eliminates Wotc's need to run sanctioned events and 'support' formats like Legacy, Modern, or EDH. Of course local LGS would be allowed to run sanctioned events for any format that will fire. Now I dont think Wotc would allow those other companies to capitalize on their game, but its a thought.

    They are catering to people too impatient of too casual to bother learning the rules - and to "poor sports" who are vexed when they get bitten by an interaction they didn't expect or don't understand.


    There have always been poor sports in this game. Dont make it out to be something new. With more coverage we are seeing more of it weekly, but if you traveled to larger events the last 20 years you saw it regularly.

    The game is being changed for the younger crowd coming up. They need the pre teens and younger crowd to step in and pick up Magic. Why learn multiple interactions of Magic when you can go play Yugiho or Pokemon which are much simpler games?

    The game is going to die a slow death if Wotc doesnt adapt to the up coming generations.


    Ah okay. So yeah that's why we end up butting heads a lot on this. I'm pro legacy / modern support directly and you're pro go all in on standard / limited. The issue I have with the all standard / limited strategy is that the company has no power over what the consumer wants to play in the grand scheme of things. They introduce the game and get people into it, but if someone wants to play commander, standard, casual, modern, etc, that is outside their control and hurting those players produces problems for the game in the form of bad press.

    What looks to have happened is that because wizards was originally only giving sideline support to eternal formats and modern and the shift in how players prefer to buy cards long term, the singles market has become the primary market for magic. Sealed product is no longer the primary way people pick up cards to build decks and instead has turned into one of those sort of blockbuster movie releases type of deals where people come play the booster box game at release and then migrate away to do singles purchases. This would be fine if the singles market was not a rummager / scavenging type of marketplace, where the supply is determined from booster box randomized distribution. The trouble with booster boxes is that wizards doesn't know what is going to be the most popular mythic or rare on the release of a new set and everything comes out approximately equally on a large scale purchase of booster boxes. This leads to popular cards spiking and less popular cards dropping once purchases start picking up, which then pushes more people to buy the higher priced mythics and rares thus creating a self fulfilling cycle.

    People should be buying cards they think are good for their decks, not buying cards simply because they are popular and they are afraid the price is going to climb on them. That is why I'm pretty convinced on the creation of more value oriented products for older sets not currently in the booster draft period, such as making a masters set that is 12 boosters, 1-2 of each of a land cycle (enemy or allied), and a bunch of extras with a promo mythic selected from among the most popular of the season. Drive the floor up and drive the ceiling down is something that WoTC has to orchestrate.


    We have had this discussion before. You are looking at it as a game you want to play. Wotc HAS to look at it as a business and how to make the most money out of it. The older formats make Wotc very little money compared to Limited and Standard.

    I am an avid Modern player but a limited player at heart. I will dabble in Standard now and again but Standard is a solved format so quickly it doesnt appeal to me, never really has. Such a small card pool, limited number of decks and strategies. As a liited player I dont want my experience to be if I dont get one of the 5 bomb cards in the set, I have no chance of prizing at the table. Which is how drafting use to be pre NWO. In that sense, Wotc has done well by drafting and limited in general. Sealed is still dependent on what you open, but I dont see how Wotc can solve that without seeding packs just for sealed play.

    I have said it all along. What Wotc needs from the game, is not the same as what parts of the player base wants from the game.
    Posted in: Magic General
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