& clearly Annie has cut & paste the roles for this game directly from the MS wiki
So yes, it is possible , yet unlikely, that there is a Town Survivor role that works like Sep's claimed role. The only problem is that what he's said about his role being unfun contradicts with the fact that the role is easier to win with.
I just noticed this - exactly what "extra leverage" were you referring to? What leverage was there in the first place?
(The answer is none.)
Extra as in anymore than they have already. The word "Extra" does not assume that they have something, nor does it assume that they have nothing to work with.
Hold on. You said yourself that you "remembered that you forgot the investigation, but decided to send it in despite not believing it'd work". You also said something else, but I ccan't remember what right now. I'll try again after I've gotten some sleep.
How does that align with what you're saying now?
How does it not align with what I'm saying now? I don't see what the issue is.
Asphodel Meadows.
For those who do not want to read, joboman made up **** and when I called him to back it up, he started going "it's there if you actually look, your job not mine to look". It was pretty blatantly obvious. Oh, and there, he had "no reason" to do that. Oh, and there he was scum.
So yeah, joboman, you are that bad.
So as scum I didn't want to go back and find stuff for people when it was clearly not my job to?
And, how does not wanting to do other peoples' work for them make me bad? Are you honestly saying that this is a scummy thing?
I just included this because I find it so amusing that you're attempting to argue this.
"I had this completely different role therefore he's lying."
Problem with that Jobo is that THAT is not my role. My role, for all intent and purposes, is a Neutral Survivor however instead of being Neutral,my Alignment is Town.
*Punctuation done by me for clarification*
Hmm that's interesting, looks like I've caught you in a lie. Lets look at what you've said before:
Quote from Sepiriel »
Again I am a Town Survivor, I can win either with the town or by surviving until the end of the game, thats what i meant by win with either team.
Not a fun role but i have tried to make the best with what i've got.
The problem with this is that I've been a town survivor before, and the role actually looks something like this:
You are a Town Survivor
You have no abilities other than a vote during the day. You win if you survive to the end of the day and the town wins. If you die and the town wins, or if you stay alive but the town loses then you lose.
This seems to me to be a noob mistake made by Sepiriel.
the reason for that is obviously clear but its been discussed to death by Rian already so i dont think it needs repeating.
What does this mean?
Additionally the fact i would be Neutral and hence would not be able to accomplish 50% of my wincon that way means it would make no sense to have a neutral alignment (look at Nai for example)
Totally invalid argument. You're saying that it makes no sense for you to be a neutral survivor with a town survivor's wincon, which is true, but we're arguing that you're a neutral survivor with a neutral survivor's wincon.
For me survivor IS a harder role to win with, I like lasting until the end regardless of the fact i win with the rest of the town (i make it a personal goal of mine to last as far into the game as possible),
But with you're role its Easier to win with. Does anybody else see this blaring contradiction here?
but a survivor is a) a role most people consider expendable/useless/usually not counting towards the tally of town vs scum for purposes of standard Scum Win (or at least i understood the role to not count)
Not if you were a real town survivor that actually HAS to win with the town AND survive.
and b) its the first time i play one, not surprising since its my 4th game all together, and i always consider a new role as difficult to win with.
Unrelated.
And in all honesty your case on me is about as valid as your case against Rian.
Where is your support for this? How is there a correlation between your case and Rian's case?
Guys, this guy made a huge scum-slip, failing in a claim.
Considering that nuetral survivor is a really cruddy role by itself, assuming sepir is really a survivor, I would be more inclined to believe that sepir could have the alternate win, rather than the tougher win.
Sep mentioned specifically how he was angry because his role made it harder to win.
Misrep #1
This was not lying nor decietful, it was that I was extremely busy during that period of time and I wasn't able to/forgot to submit an investigation.
, lying about a vig shot to produce a claim from Rianalnn,
Misrep #2
You've got me, this is my one time that I've tried to gambit to try to catch a scum. I did not, however, claim a vig shot so that Rianalnn claimed. If you go back and look at his post you'll see that Rianalnn claimed because of my gambit, but my intentions of the gambit where not in any way to get them to claim.
lying about Vezo being a cop at first, etc.
Misrep#3
I never lied for Vezo. As soon as I looked and found out that he was a cult I actually helped the town by outing him.
Seeing as how you haven't produced a "real" result outside of barning Vezo's Seppel case,
Misrep#4
Are you forgetting about those two PBPA's that it took to get Seppel Vigged, that took hours of my time to do? Vezo never made a single case for Seppel, and he just barned my case.
I fail to see why we should expect results from you in the future.
This is just a plain out logical disconnect. How does you thinking I've never made a cause (proved to be not true) make you think that I'll never get cop results? These two things have nothing to do with each-other.
Despite the fact that Arcadic and Infinis got town results on Rianalnn, you still seem to believe that him and Arcadic have concocted a conspiracy to get you lynched.
Misrep #5.
If the bolded words is another way to say "scum-driven wagon", then yes I thought that they were trying to get a mis-lynch on me. How is that scummy?
Yet you didn't send in an investigation on Shalako last night, but Rianalnn.
Do you remember That PBPA that took another hour to write that was outlining Rianalnn and Seppel's strong connection?
And today, you're not voting Shalako, and while he finds you scummy, he's not voting you. Anyone else see this?
So do you think that we're scumbuddies?
@Joboman: The case against you is real.
As I've shown, its clearly not.
Your play this game has been illogical,
This is not a scum-tell.
as your actions do not gel with your supposed role of cop.
This is the first time you've mentioned this.
If there's anything more I could clear up that'd be useful.
Seperiel failed at his/her claim. A town survivor must be alive at the end of the game and win with the town while this is what she claimed:
"I must be alive at the end of the game or win with the town" (something along those lines). This is a contradiction and obviously a failed false-claim. Lets lynch her.
Being on the wagon of a scum outed by a cop investigation gives you 0 clearance whatsoever.
hmm.
Having an investigation of a scum can give clearance.
Obviously not according to you guys.
If you knew it was going to cause problems, why did you do it in the first place, regardless of alignment?
Because I thought that I was able to catch 2 scum. Also, this doesn't answer my point.
You've outed yourself when vezokpiraka's investigation might have been enough, you've wasted an investigation on yourself, and you've forgot to submit an investigation. Then you threaten a vig shot that you don't have. Clearly you are playing "that bad."
Investigating myself wasn't a waste.
Even with the threatened vig shot, that's not what made everyone think I'm scum, its the whole thing with getting a failed result.
What you are saying, in essence, is
"I don't make stupid mistakes as scum."
which is untrue and WIFOM.
Are you just ignoring what I've said? My "mistakes" are not mistakes, people just don't believe me.
I'm saying "I don't make stupid plays that are unfavorable as scum"
Your WIFOM is the nice way of putting your really horrible phrasing and wording if you truly are town (which I doubt).
While I admit I am a bit of a newbie, so I may be putting a bit too much into this, (someone other than Joboman has to tell me this) but I feel like your actions, and specifically your quote of this:
I am guessing you have been playing for quite a while, so you should realize this means nothing more than trying to convince people off your wagon. You missed the cutoff, and came up with some story that annorax allowed a late submission? There is no way any mod would allow that as the day starts for several reasons (and i wouldn't doubt it if someone from the mafia team actually pmed annorax to ask if that was really allowed)
Surely even you realize, that the same things that could "confirm" you as a sane cop, could also "confirm" you as a scum, right?
Vote stands unless someone does the "Nai Slip".
Just think about this.
So lets say that I am scum, and I'm in a mason group with Diggy and Vezo, and vezo claims Cop, and getting a successful scum result on Seppel, my scumbuddy. Why would I false-claim cop? The only positive result of getting Seppel lynched and being on the lynch is that I look townie, while claiming cop lets me get that same benefit, but also puts more attention on me for absolutely no reason. As scum, WIFOM or no WIFOM, it would never be the optimal play there to claim for no reason.
Now, lets assume that I survive until this day, lying the whole way through. Why would I say that Annorax responded to my late investigation? I knew when I said it that this would bring more attention to me (and it has), and claiming a failed result which would get me lynched. The best thing that would happened is that a Tracker would be lynched, which is good but not worth the life of a scum.
To be quite frank guys, I'm not this bad. Please just look through what I've said and see that a scum would have no reason to do what I've done.
Also, please don't cite WIFOM on me. Its only WIFOM if both options have equal positive results, but WIFOM doesn't apply in a situation like this where one of my options has CLEARLY a worse outcome for me.
Also, HOW DID WE NOT LYNCH SEP.
Also, I told ya so.
I'm town. Lynch Sep plz peoples, he's obv scum. Other than that, please pick apart my wagon.
So yes, it is possible , yet unlikely, that there is a Town Survivor role that works like Sep's claimed role. The only problem is that what he's said about his role being unfun contradicts with the fact that the role is easier to win with.
Extra as in anymore than they have already. The word "Extra" does not assume that they have something, nor does it assume that they have nothing to work with.
How does it not align with what I'm saying now? I don't see what the issue is.
So as scum I didn't want to go back and find stuff for people when it was clearly not my job to?
And, how does not wanting to do other peoples' work for them make me bad? Are you honestly saying that this is a scummy thing?
No I'm saying this:
1. Every single time I've seen it, a Town survivor works the way I've Indicated, rather than what Sep's claimed. Looky Here: http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Survivor
And I quote,
2. His role, as stated, makes it easier to win yet he's stated that he thinks its more stressful because its harder to win.
Hmm that's interesting, looks like I've caught you in a lie. Lets look at what you've said before:
The problem with this is that I've been a town survivor before, and the role actually looks something like this:
This seems to me to be a noob mistake made by Sepiriel.
What does this mean?
Totally invalid argument. You're saying that it makes no sense for you to be a neutral survivor with a town survivor's wincon, which is true, but we're arguing that you're a neutral survivor with a neutral survivor's wincon.
But with you're role its Easier to win with. Does anybody else see this blaring contradiction here?
Not if you were a real town survivor that actually HAS to win with the town AND survive.
Unrelated.
Where is your support for this? How is there a correlation between your case and Rian's case?
Guys, this guy made a huge scum-slip, failing in a claim.
Sep mentioned specifically how he was angry because his role made it harder to win.
My case is still valid.
Misrep #1
This was not lying nor decietful, it was that I was extremely busy during that period of time and I wasn't able to/forgot to submit an investigation.
Misrep #2
You've got me, this is my one time that I've tried to gambit to try to catch a scum. I did not, however, claim a vig shot so that Rianalnn claimed. If you go back and look at his post you'll see that Rianalnn claimed because of my gambit, but my intentions of the gambit where not in any way to get them to claim.
Misrep#3
I never lied for Vezo. As soon as I looked and found out that he was a cult I actually helped the town by outing him.
Misrep#4
Are you forgetting about those two PBPA's that it took to get Seppel Vigged, that took hours of my time to do? Vezo never made a single case for Seppel, and he just barned my case.
This is just a plain out logical disconnect. How does you thinking I've never made a cause (proved to be not true) make you think that I'll never get cop results? These two things have nothing to do with each-other.
Misrep #5.
If the bolded words is another way to say "scum-driven wagon", then yes I thought that they were trying to get a mis-lynch on me. How is that scummy?
Do you remember That PBPA that took another hour to write that was outlining Rianalnn and Seppel's strong connection?
So do you think that we're scumbuddies?
As I've shown, its clearly not.
This is not a scum-tell.
This is the first time you've mentioned this.
If there's anything more I could clear up that'd be useful.
Seperiel failed at his/her claim. A town survivor must be alive at the end of the game and win with the town while this is what she claimed:
"I must be alive at the end of the game or win with the town" (something along those lines). This is a contradiction and obviously a failed false-claim. Lets lynch her.
How so? please site specific examples.
Lynching me is a good way to get more results /sarcasm.
You may disagree with them, but do not call my cases "illogical" if they're clearly not and you're not willing to show how you think they are.
Where is this also?
There's nothing to account for here... I claimed cop because I had gotten the same result as he did and I thought that it'd be needed for the lynch.
If you guys are going to lynch me, please provide reasons.
hmm.
Obviously not according to you guys.
Because I thought that I was able to catch 2 scum. Also, this doesn't answer my point.
Investigating myself wasn't a waste.
Even with the threatened vig shot, that's not what made everyone think I'm scum, its the whole thing with getting a failed result.
Are you just ignoring what I've said? My "mistakes" are not mistakes, people just don't believe me.
I'm saying "I don't make stupid plays that are unfavorable as scum"
Just think about this.
So lets say that I am scum, and I'm in a mason group with Diggy and Vezo, and vezo claims Cop, and getting a successful scum result on Seppel, my scumbuddy. Why would I false-claim cop? The only positive result of getting Seppel lynched and being on the lynch is that I look townie, while claiming cop lets me get that same benefit, but also puts more attention on me for absolutely no reason. As scum, WIFOM or no WIFOM, it would never be the optimal play there to claim for no reason.
Now, lets assume that I survive until this day, lying the whole way through. Why would I say that Annorax responded to my late investigation? I knew when I said it that this would bring more attention to me (and it has), and claiming a failed result which would get me lynched. The best thing that would happened is that a Tracker would be lynched, which is good but not worth the life of a scum.
To be quite frank guys, I'm not this bad. Please just look through what I've said and see that a scum would have no reason to do what I've done.
Also, please don't cite WIFOM on me. Its only WIFOM if both options have equal positive results, but WIFOM doesn't apply in a situation like this where one of my options has CLEARLY a worse outcome for me.