Thanks so much for the responses! The Basalt Monolith cut was a little painful for me, so I would be happy to cut something else instead. Ay suggestions of what to cut over Nearheath Pilgrim? Also, would you cut Sigarda over Vraska? Thanks again.
I actually agree with your comment even for a 810 card cube. Those cards just can't compete with other colors similar cards. If you have to play those to enforce black aggro, you should really just cut black aggro instead and add better cards.
So no apology needed for me with my 810 card cube. I think you hit the nail on the head perfectly.
Black gets pretty awful in a large Cube if don't at least try to support aggro. You don't play black aggro for it's middle-tier cheap creatures. White has muuuch better creatures for the same cost. You play black aggro because of its disruption and some of its cheaper bombs like Braids, Bob, or Pack Rat, and you have to play cards like Nezumi Cutthroat to give your deck threat density and a decent clock. Black aggro decks are great if they are supported by other colors, and the black section would be pretty stale without any of the aggro cards... Usually my black aggro decks are good at doing something else too, like reanimating, recurring threats, and crushing the opponent with oppressive stax/pox effects.
Land:
+Thespian's Stage
+10 new art shocks
-Isolated Chapel
-Clifftop Retreat
-Shivan Reef
-Woodland Cemetary
-Yavimaya Coast
-5 Shards of Alara Trilands
-Murmuring Bosk
I'm taking out 6 colorless cards to add 6 to the multi/hybrid section.
Comments are welcome. I'm going to see how people in my group like having 2 of each shock. We usually draft 6 people, so it would be nice to have more duals in a 720 card pool. I know that will be unpopular here, so please just discuss power level of swapped cards rather than whether or not 2 of each shock is OK in Cube.
I know. So close. If it's a crap creature, you can have it. If it's a clutch creature, they can take it back. Boo.
Yes that is frustrating. It would have been a solid card if it was either Control Magic or a 4 mana removal spell that gave you insane card advantage over your opponent....
Alright so the spotlight is obviously an uncubeable card...
How do people feel about Soul Ransom? I see some discussion a few pages back... I don't think any Browbeat-style cards are currently good in Cube, but this is either a Control Magic or a 5-for-1. You are killing their creature, drawing 2 cards, and they are discarding 2 cards all for 4 mana...
^
Funny, that's actually the opposite of how I draft it, but with a similar mindset. I will pick it up if I am already in a deck that plays cards that are good with it. I think there are so many more powerful "build around me" cards that I have trouble taking this early over many things.
I would argue that you certainly have to set up Mana Drain for it to be broken. I mean you will occasionally luck sack the perfect curve with it, but it is often difficult to utilize the colorless mana from the spell you counter when you have UU in play. The dream situations like countering their 3-drop on the draw right on curve into a Wurmcoil comes up occasionally, but I wouldn't say it is incredibly common, and there are ways of beating that board state when you are not permanently ahead by 3 colorless mana anyways.
I also think Counterspell as a card is a fine, but mediocre in Cube, and "at worst" being a Counterspell doesn't make it sound that fantastic to me. Counterspell is good and is an important card in many strategies, but it's not the same as if you said, "at worst this card is a Black Lotus." If the card already had a first-pickable effect at its worst, it would be too broken with another ability tacked on, but I don't see why being a better Counterspell is a big deal.
I also do not run the powered fast mana including Mana Crypt or Sol Ring, but I do run Grim Monolith, Mana Vault, and Dark Ritual. I guess I don't see one-time use fast mana effects as being too broken (except for Black Lotus... Which allows you to play any 4-drop in the Cube on turn 1...). They are good for sure, but cards that you cheat in on turns 3+ should be beatable for any deck. Mana Vault is borderline... But I still think it's acceptable.
I love this card, but I never get to play with it because people I play with always overvalue it and snatch it up early. I probably wouldn't pick this card until I know it would fit well in my deck, but I think it is a great card to have in the Cube.
There are many cards I would pick over Mana Drain in an unpowered Cube. It is a very strong card, but it has not been nearly as Broken as something like Ancestral Recall or Black Lotus. If you think Mana Drain is too strong, you shouldn't play Balance, and I don't see many people arguing for not playing Balance in unpowered. It is probably more swingy and degenerate for 2 mana.
It sounds like people are having some weird issue with this card being a strictly better Counterspell... There are quite a few cards in Cube that are strictly better versions of other Cubeable cards, so it really shouldn't be an issue.
I think this is one of the most underrated cards on these Cube boards. For this card to be bad you have to play it with no creatures in play. When you are building your deck, you might want to use this card in a nonland slot in your deck.
In 80% of green decks, you should want to pick this card highly. It takes you having 2 creatures in play for this card to be busted. I really don't understand how this card is bad in a color that is saturated in creatures in Cube. It plays extremely well with the green mana Elves in a midrange deck. If you are trying to make this a token support card, you are doing it wrong. Of course this is good in a GW token deck, but this card is good in most aggressive or especially midrange green decks regardless of whether or not you have token generators. Most of the time for me this card plays as a nonbasic Forest that makes GG in the midgame and can make absurd amounts of mana in the lategame. The synergies with cards like Deranged Hermit are a plus, but that's not why you should be playing the card.
The more I think about this card, the worse it seems in all formats. I don't think I want to play this in my 720. At first I didn't realize that you have to deal damage to the player to get the Silence effect which made it only slightly better...
So for 5 mana this is an instant-speed, multicolor Arc Lightning that taps the creatures it damages and is only a bad Silence if you use 1 of the 3 damage to ping the opponent... This just seems bad to me.
Black gets pretty awful in a large Cube if don't at least try to support aggro. You don't play black aggro for it's middle-tier cheap creatures. White has muuuch better creatures for the same cost. You play black aggro because of its disruption and some of its cheaper bombs like Braids, Bob, or Pack Rat, and you have to play cards like Nezumi Cutthroat to give your deck threat density and a decent clock. Black aggro decks are great if they are supported by other colors, and the black section would be pretty stale without any of the aggro cards... Usually my black aggro decks are good at doing something else too, like reanimating, recurring threats, and crushing the opponent with oppressive stax/pox effects.
Changes:
White:
+Daring Skyjek
+Frontline Medic
+Gideon, Champion of Justice
-Nearheath Pilgrim
-Hokori, Dust Drinker
-Eternal Dragon
Blue:
+Gifts Ungiven
-Sunder
Black:
none
Red:
+Reckless Charge
-Fireblast
Green:
+Experiment One
-Ulvenwald Tracker
Multi:
+Boros Charm
+Dimir Charm
+Baleful Strix
+Duskmantle Seer
+Simic Charm
+Prime Speaker Zegana
+Domri Rade
+Obzdat, Ghost Council
-Recoil
-Vraska the Unseen
Colorless:
-Chimeric Mass
-Tezzeret's Gambit
-Phyrexian Processor
-Basilisk Collar
-AEther Vial
-Basalt Monolith
Land:
+Thespian's Stage
+10 new art shocks
-Isolated Chapel
-Clifftop Retreat
-Shivan Reef
-Woodland Cemetary
-Yavimaya Coast
-5 Shards of Alara Trilands
-Murmuring Bosk
I'm taking out 6 colorless cards to add 6 to the multi/hybrid section.
Comments are welcome. I'm going to see how people in my group like having 2 of each shock. We usually draft 6 people, so it would be nice to have more duals in a 720 card pool. I know that will be unpopular here, so please just discuss power level of swapped cards rather than whether or not 2 of each shock is OK in Cube.
This is how I feel.
Yes that is frustrating. It would have been a solid card if it was either Control Magic or a 4 mana removal spell that gave you insane card advantage over your opponent....
How do people feel about Soul Ransom? I see some discussion a few pages back... I don't think any Browbeat-style cards are currently good in Cube, but this is either a Control Magic or a 5-for-1. You are killing their creature, drawing 2 cards, and they are discarding 2 cards all for 4 mana...
Funny, that's actually the opposite of how I draft it, but with a similar mindset. I will pick it up if I am already in a deck that plays cards that are good with it. I think there are so many more powerful "build around me" cards that I have trouble taking this early over many things.
I also think Counterspell as a card is a fine, but mediocre in Cube, and "at worst" being a Counterspell doesn't make it sound that fantastic to me. Counterspell is good and is an important card in many strategies, but it's not the same as if you said, "at worst this card is a Black Lotus." If the card already had a first-pickable effect at its worst, it would be too broken with another ability tacked on, but I don't see why being a better Counterspell is a big deal.
I also do not run the powered fast mana including Mana Crypt or Sol Ring, but I do run Grim Monolith, Mana Vault, and Dark Ritual. I guess I don't see one-time use fast mana effects as being too broken (except for Black Lotus... Which allows you to play any 4-drop in the Cube on turn 1...). They are good for sure, but cards that you cheat in on turns 3+ should be beatable for any deck. Mana Vault is borderline... But I still think it's acceptable.
It sounds like people are having some weird issue with this card being a strictly better Counterspell... There are quite a few cards in Cube that are strictly better versions of other Cubeable cards, so it really shouldn't be an issue.
In 80% of green decks, you should want to pick this card highly. It takes you having 2 creatures in play for this card to be busted. I really don't understand how this card is bad in a color that is saturated in creatures in Cube. It plays extremely well with the green mana Elves in a midrange deck. If you are trying to make this a token support card, you are doing it wrong. Of course this is good in a GW token deck, but this card is good in most aggressive or especially midrange green decks regardless of whether or not you have token generators. Most of the time for me this card plays as a nonbasic Forest that makes GG in the midgame and can make absurd amounts of mana in the lategame. The synergies with cards like Deranged Hermit are a plus, but that's not why you should be playing the card.
So for 5 mana this is an instant-speed, multicolor Arc Lightning that taps the creatures it damages and is only a bad Silence if you use 1 of the 3 damage to ping the opponent... This just seems bad to me.