Favourite:
1. Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas - I really want this guy to be competitive, but even if it's not tier 1, it's hella fun to play
2. Garruk, Relentless - my favourite card in my GW Tokens deck I played at GP Brisbane on the weekend.
3. Gavony Township - Cool ability to have on a land, and rips games away from the opponent very quickly if left unchecked.
4. Consecrated Sphinx - I'm still yet to lose a game after untapping with this guy out. So much card advantage
5. Grand Architect - I don't actually play this in a deck, I just want it to be good because it's asking to be broken
Most Annoying:
1. Primeval Titan -I hate playing against Valakut, and Wolf-Run Ramp is much the same, except you don't lose on the spot and spend several turns thinking "I know I'm losing this, but I might just rip that card off the top I need". Luckily, the other mid-range strategies in this format can try and compete with it this time around
2. Snapcaster Mage- Amazing card, and I can see that I will come to like it when I get a chance to play it, but it basically amounts to getting to play 5-8 of the best cards in your deck against the deck your opponent is playing
3. Sword of Feast and Famine- Closest card to broken in standard. Card is sweet, but having people be able to do what they wish before combat, then untap and have mana for instants in your turn is nuts.
4. Phantasmal Image- Sun Titan, return image copying Sun Titan, return image copying Sun Titan, return Liliana/O-ring/other awesome 3-or less drop permanent.
5. Dismember- Printing this card was a mistake by WotC. That is all
I agree completely, I in no way endorse the use of Geist over Hero or Tirel, or really in the deck at all.
I found Geist-Honored Monk ordinary at best on the weekend. The best part of it was that it was an over-costed Midnight Haunting, as the two 1/1 fliers were relevant far more often than the potentially big monk.
The only game it was good for me is a game in which it allowed me to close off the game quickly when I was already ahead. Hero also does this, and helps you to win out of nowhere/get back in the game if you are behind.
I think the biggest question for this deck is if we want Birds or not. Do we want speed or more card quality ?
I run a GW tokens deck at GP today. I think we want one of Birds or Pilgrim, but not both. I played 4 birds, 2 pilgrims today, and sided out the pilgrims in a lot of matches. Against a lot of the decks out there, T2 Haunting/Mentor into T3 Garruk is huge.
I do think I want to try Viridian Emissary though, it seems like it might be a handy 'ramp' spell.
I haven't played with the Geist myself, but I've seen games where she connects for ton of damage; but I don't think she's worth increasing the curve over Elspeth, Sunny, or Elesh.
I played this in my deck today, I found it really underwhelming. I think I would rather cut it for some more early options.
does anyone has Brian Kibler's decklist from starcitygames premium account?
Yes, but given I'm paying for access to it, I don't see the need to post it in here (Call me a douche, I don't care).
I personally like where it is going, and there is definately a few things I like in it (Batterskull and Karn in particular), but it's a pretty stock UB Tezzeret list.
I think the biggest problem with Tezzeret is that people are building Tezzeret lists that lose if they don't get a Tezzeret. In my current Iteration of the deck, I have made every effort to ensure that without Tezzeret, the deck is still able to win, and Tezzeret just helps it to close games out quicker. Ultimately, a lot of the time it does just feel a little bit like a UB Control list that is worse at controlling the game but has more ways to win.
I think when it comes down to it though, no Tezzeret can also be looked at in the same light as there being no UB Control. I just don't think it's necessarily the best place to be right now.
We could go on all day about the specifics on ponder vs preordain. Honestly, we can all read the card I'm assuming, but this approach of pointing out the obvious seems flawed. Whether a combo or control tezzeret archetype in the early game after your opponent's turn you already have an idea of what cards are dead/live in your deck. Especially game one main deck this remains true. The objective should be which cantrip allows you to curve into tezzeret/answers rather than which cantrip synergizes with tezz's plus one ability better. Shuffling dead cards and live cards early-mid game or keeping one live card and two blanks on top of your deck is straight-up subpar. Unless you wish to crack a fetch immediately after or manage to get a ponder with three great cards on top ponder is worse.
If I'm playing a 3-colour Tezzeret list (either Esper or Grixis, although did someone mention BUG before?) then I might potentially want Ponder, as I will most likely be playing at least a few fetches.
If I'm running 2-colour, or no fetches, I want to play Preordain, as it just fits what the deck wants to do better. The only exception to this IMO would be if you're playing Forgemaster, which I feel is a sub-par metagame choice at the moment.
I have to agree with Mavlis in his post above. I find Ratchet Bomb to be one of the all-stars in the deck, effective against aggro and control alike. The thing that really has to be considered is that it gives UB a way to handle permanents that have already resolved that it wouldn't otherwise be able to handle.
So you just read Sam Black's article and tried to incorporate a couple of the changes he mentioned in his analysis then?
Even so, I still feel (this is without testing that actual list) that it is just going to completely fold to half of the meta. It doesn't disrupt Valakut and Twin, it's got zero early defense/removal against Tempered Steel and RDW and without any disruption/countermagic it will just lose to the control decks doing the rounds. This is even failing to mention UW Caw, which is a tough matchup for UB Tezzeret (don't know about the Wub Puresteel Lists that happen to play Tezzeret that people keep posting that I don't think belong in this thread).
I'm not going to try and say I know better than Sam Black here, he is clearly a better magic player (and probably deck-builder) than I am, but I just cannot see how this deck can possibly do anything in the current metagame but lose.
From what I can see, pre-board, this deck just auto-loses to anything aggressive. If you really want to go down this route, Shrine of Loyal Legions is pretty much a must, and even then you're gonna have a hard time against aggro decks.
Without Shrine, you're just a deck that draws cards/lands and does nothing much. At least with Shrine, you have the potential to just blow the opponent out with a Tezzeret + Ultimate on the same turn.
You probably also want to put one or two huge artifacts in as well, Blightsteel Colossus for example, as there is every chance your Chalice's are going to get a few counters on them.
Has anyone tried to make a tezzeret myr deck if not is it even possible to make one that is decent
I have come up with a list yesterday but it need review and suggestions
Since its U/B
It's not something I have thought of, but post it and I (as well as others I'm sure) will have a look and see what we think.
Also, to the suggestion of All is Dust above, I have to say no I'm thinking. There are several problems with it, but the biggest is that it comes 2-3 turns too late. I feel like even Consume the Meek during opponent combat phase on turn 5 is sometimes cutting it fine. Leaving it until turn 7 seems bad.
However, maybe it is something to think about as sideboard against slower decks that pack planeswalkers and big critters that this deck may otherwise have trouble with. I don't want to discount it entirely for this reason alone, but on first thought I don't like it.
As for Ponder, I like that I can shuffle as I am often seeing good cards go to the bottom when I +1 Tez. But I love Preordain to so I'll test a bunch to see what I like more.
If you have some Marsh Flats, I would recommend trying to fit 2-4 in there somehow, probably in place of a couple of the colourless lands (maybe cut back to 2 Inkmoth Nexus) and a dual. Based on your decklist I would say one of the UW ones. This way you get to use Preordain (much better than Ponder in a non-combo list) AND have shuffle.
The only time I would be using Ponder at this stage in a Tezzeret list is if you are playing Forgemaster, and even then I would be more inclined to just run more disruption to stop your opponent than Ponder.
EDIT: Also, while I think about it, if you're gonna cut a land for a sweeper, go for Consume the Meek. Seriously, do it. BSZ is only really good against the creatures that DoJ is good against, while CtM let's you deal with pesky stuff like Manlands and Glint Hawk Idol. Instant Speed (particularly in a control deck when it doesn't look sus if you leave mana up) is tech.
After seeing the deficiancies in my deck, especially against red, the more I think about White, the more I like it. So this is a list I think I am going to run at the next FNM:
So my deck is essentially tap out and worry what is on board. I figured against control I can't win a counter-war anyway with just a couple of mana leaks and negates anyway plus I like O-Ring to do with opposing Walkers or creatures anyway. And the no discard hurts but like I said, I'm playing the board with this deck since my toughest matchups have been red decks anyways. Blue-White Venser is the local control build of choice anyway and I beat that deck with Tezzeret and Creeping Tarpit, not so much discard. I think O-Ring is going to help me out a lot considering I couldn't always counter Venser when I needed to.
This is a cool list. I have wanted to try and add White to this deck for a while, mainly for Gideon as I think he really helps in aggro matchups. I definately like something like this MUCH more than the Puresteel decks people are spewing out.
I would be replacing Ponder with Preordain, as it is just better in this deck (although Ponder is by no means bad either). I would probably also be cutting the land by 1-2 as well. With 5 mana artifacts and 3 Solemn, you don't need 26 lands IMO.
Only other thing I can think of is looking into the black sweepers also. I think with Gideon it's probably slightly less relevant as he helps deal with the stuff like Glint Hawk Idol + Inkmoth Nexus that UB has trouble with sometimes.
Speaking of ramping in my list, it's only running 23 lands with Solemn and Mox acting as ramp. I fear dropping Karn when you actually get him in hand may be a problem. I think I will build this just to test it out.
I think I really like Karn in a Tezzeret build, it just provides you with ways to get rid of Pain in the Arse permanents that UB normally doesn't have answers to. I'll have to try it out myself and see what I think.
If Karn proves to be hard to summon, then I'll drop him for Metamorph. I feel a bit nakey without Metamorph in the deck.
I do really like Metamorph. In my old build, he was one of my best ways to take care of Titans/other scary creatures, or just really pile the pressure on when I gain control of the board and drop a finisher. I want to find room for it, and will probably try to, but it's hard. There isn't many slots I'm not happy with.
I do like the idea of Karn in the deck and another to keep him in would have to add another land, maybe 2. Karn controls the board and takes attention away from you.
This is pretty much why I want Karn. It helps shut out decks like Tempered Steel when you gain control, and is just an all-around good catch-all. I just wish it was an artifact (same reason I wish Consecrated Sphinx was, that card is a BEAST)
Life's finale adds to the control aspect of the deck and it's another board wipe in a sea full of aggro, if you make it to t6, you'll need it. Plus it's good against Valakut and NeoCaw.
If you remove duress and a ratchet bomb, you could put in 2 despise.
I'll have to play around with these cards. I don't know I necesarily need duress anyway as all the cards I care about removing are either CMC<=3 or Planeswalkers/Creatures.
And, yea, Aaron wasn't trolling in the final, just repeatedly spazzed out.
I did assume that was the case, especially when I was listening to his banter afterwards :P. Was great to see him win, dude puts in so much time/effort he deserves it.
Favourite:
1. Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas - I really want this guy to be competitive, but even if it's not tier 1, it's hella fun to play
2. Garruk, Relentless - my favourite card in my GW Tokens deck I played at GP Brisbane on the weekend.
3. Gavony Township - Cool ability to have on a land, and rips games away from the opponent very quickly if left unchecked.
4. Consecrated Sphinx - I'm still yet to lose a game after untapping with this guy out. So much card advantage
5. Grand Architect - I don't actually play this in a deck, I just want it to be good because it's asking to be broken
Most Annoying:
1. Primeval Titan -I hate playing against Valakut, and Wolf-Run Ramp is much the same, except you don't lose on the spot and spend several turns thinking "I know I'm losing this, but I might just rip that card off the top I need". Luckily, the other mid-range strategies in this format can try and compete with it this time around
2. Snapcaster Mage- Amazing card, and I can see that I will come to like it when I get a chance to play it, but it basically amounts to getting to play 5-8 of the best cards in your deck against the deck your opponent is playing
3. Sword of Feast and Famine- Closest card to broken in standard. Card is sweet, but having people be able to do what they wish before combat, then untap and have mana for instants in your turn is nuts.
4. Phantasmal Image- Sun Titan, return image copying Sun Titan, return image copying Sun Titan, return Liliana/O-ring/other awesome 3-or less drop permanent.
5. Dismember- Printing this card was a mistake by WotC. That is all
I found Geist-Honored Monk ordinary at best on the weekend. The best part of it was that it was an over-costed Midnight Haunting, as the two 1/1 fliers were relevant far more often than the potentially big monk.
The only game it was good for me is a game in which it allowed me to close off the game quickly when I was already ahead. Hero also does this, and helps you to win out of nowhere/get back in the game if you are behind.
I run a GW tokens deck at GP today. I think we want one of Birds or Pilgrim, but not both. I played 4 birds, 2 pilgrims today, and sided out the pilgrims in a lot of matches. Against a lot of the decks out there, T2 Haunting/Mentor into T3 Garruk is huge.
I do think I want to try Viridian Emissary though, it seems like it might be a handy 'ramp' spell.
I played this in my deck today, I found it really underwhelming. I think I would rather cut it for some more early options.
I don't know how it crumbles to Valakut, unless they are built a LOT differently to mine. I find Valakut to be quite favourable.
Yes, but given I'm paying for access to it, I don't see the need to post it in here (Call me a douche, I don't care).
I personally like where it is going, and there is definately a few things I like in it (Batterskull and Karn in particular), but it's a pretty stock UB Tezzeret list.
I think when it comes down to it though, no Tezzeret can also be looked at in the same light as there being no UB Control. I just don't think it's necessarily the best place to be right now.
If I'm playing a 3-colour Tezzeret list (either Esper or Grixis, although did someone mention BUG before?) then I might potentially want Ponder, as I will most likely be playing at least a few fetches.
If I'm running 2-colour, or no fetches, I want to play Preordain, as it just fits what the deck wants to do better. The only exception to this IMO would be if you're playing Forgemaster, which I feel is a sub-par metagame choice at the moment.
So you just read Sam Black's article and tried to incorporate a couple of the changes he mentioned in his analysis then?
Even so, I still feel (this is without testing that actual list) that it is just going to completely fold to half of the meta. It doesn't disrupt Valakut and Twin, it's got zero early defense/removal against Tempered Steel and RDW and without any disruption/countermagic it will just lose to the control decks doing the rounds. This is even failing to mention UW Caw, which is a tough matchup for UB Tezzeret (don't know about the Wub Puresteel Lists that happen to play Tezzeret that people keep posting that I don't think belong in this thread).
I'm not going to try and say I know better than Sam Black here, he is clearly a better magic player (and probably deck-builder) than I am, but I just cannot see how this deck can possibly do anything in the current metagame but lose.
From what I can see, pre-board, this deck just auto-loses to anything aggressive. If you really want to go down this route, Shrine of Loyal Legions is pretty much a must, and even then you're gonna have a hard time against aggro decks.
Without Shrine, you're just a deck that draws cards/lands and does nothing much. At least with Shrine, you have the potential to just blow the opponent out with a Tezzeret + Ultimate on the same turn.
You probably also want to put one or two huge artifacts in as well, Blightsteel Colossus for example, as there is every chance your Chalice's are going to get a few counters on them.
It's not something I have thought of, but post it and I (as well as others I'm sure) will have a look and see what we think.
Also, to the suggestion of All is Dust above, I have to say no I'm thinking. There are several problems with it, but the biggest is that it comes 2-3 turns too late. I feel like even Consume the Meek during opponent combat phase on turn 5 is sometimes cutting it fine. Leaving it until turn 7 seems bad.
However, maybe it is something to think about as sideboard against slower decks that pack planeswalkers and big critters that this deck may otherwise have trouble with. I don't want to discount it entirely for this reason alone, but on first thought I don't like it.
Yeah, this is a card I have considered myself. Make sure you post here when you know how it's going to work
If you have some Marsh Flats, I would recommend trying to fit 2-4 in there somehow, probably in place of a couple of the colourless lands (maybe cut back to 2 Inkmoth Nexus) and a dual. Based on your decklist I would say one of the UW ones. This way you get to use Preordain (much better than Ponder in a non-combo list) AND have shuffle.
The only time I would be using Ponder at this stage in a Tezzeret list is if you are playing Forgemaster, and even then I would be more inclined to just run more disruption to stop your opponent than Ponder.
EDIT: Also, while I think about it, if you're gonna cut a land for a sweeper, go for Consume the Meek. Seriously, do it. BSZ is only really good against the creatures that DoJ is good against, while CtM let's you deal with pesky stuff like Manlands and Glint Hawk Idol. Instant Speed (particularly in a control deck when it doesn't look sus if you leave mana up) is tech.
This is a cool list. I have wanted to try and add White to this deck for a while, mainly for Gideon as I think he really helps in aggro matchups. I definately like something like this MUCH more than the Puresteel decks people are spewing out.
I would be replacing Ponder with Preordain, as it is just better in this deck (although Ponder is by no means bad either). I would probably also be cutting the land by 1-2 as well. With 5 mana artifacts and 3 Solemn, you don't need 26 lands IMO.
Only other thing I can think of is looking into the black sweepers also. I think with Gideon it's probably slightly less relevant as he helps deal with the stuff like Glint Hawk Idol + Inkmoth Nexus that UB has trouble with sometimes.
I think I really like Karn in a Tezzeret build, it just provides you with ways to get rid of Pain in the Arse permanents that UB normally doesn't have answers to. I'll have to try it out myself and see what I think.
I do really like Metamorph. In my old build, he was one of my best ways to take care of Titans/other scary creatures, or just really pile the pressure on when I gain control of the board and drop a finisher. I want to find room for it, and will probably try to, but it's hard. There isn't many slots I'm not happy with.
This is pretty much why I want Karn. It helps shut out decks like Tempered Steel when you gain control, and is just an all-around good catch-all. I just wish it was an artifact (same reason I wish Consecrated Sphinx was, that card is a BEAST)
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I'll have to play around with these cards. I don't know I necesarily need duress anyway as all the cards I care about removing are either CMC<=3 or Planeswalkers/Creatures.
I did assume that was the case, especially when I was listening to his banter afterwards :P. Was great to see him win, dude puts in so much time/effort he deserves it.