MTG Salvation

I think the TURF section should include an "honorable mentions" bullet that includes the un-cards/portal, etc. (that don't make the list) and like #21-25 that just barely didn't make the cut. Would this please everybody?

Also, I didn't know we could vote for goofy cards either, or Booster Tutor, and Contract From Below would both have made my top 20 black list.

If for whatever reason un- cards, portal cards or the like DON'T make the top 20 list, he'll make a special note of them in the TURF area under the list as he mentioned above. My bet is that Gifts Given will make the master list for blue even if it's excluded from a few lists (see Yawgmoth's Will). It made top 10...

Put that info in the TURF if you have to...

Quote from Usman

If that was the case, Booster Tutor would have easily cracked the top 20, if not top 10.

I don't think so. Look at the lists. How many more people have voted for Gifts Given than booster tutor?

What about dream cards? What about custom errata's? What about Contract From Below? What about the errata'd version of Chaos Orb? Blacker Lotus? Chaos Confetti? Lame. If the cards don't make the list because everybody votes for 'em, they don't belong there... not even with an asterisk.

If they don't make the list, they don't make the list. Not every card you want to make the ultimate list is going to do so. The only FAIR way to do it is to let everybody make a top 20 list and tally up the votes.

Trust me. Gifts Given will be in it's appropriate place even if it doesn't make everybody's list.

For example, only Yawgmoth's Will made the top 10 list for black, even though it was completely ignored by 3 lists!

The most powerful cards WILL make the list, even if not everybody votes for 'em. You don't need asterisks for the un-cards or for the power cards, or for the portal cards... the top 20 cards when tallied together will be the top 20 cards for sure.

Any "notes" about un-cards or whatever can go in the information under the top 20 list on the main page if need-be.

Quote from lim_qien

I agree that people should be posting their lists representing what they think are the top20 cards. it doesnt matter if you run it or have seen it and know about it.

How can you rank a card you've never used/seen used? You have no idea how powerful it is... Just because a card sounds powerful doesn't mean that it should immediately go on your Top 20 list.

I think the only way to get a balanced list is to let people make a list of what their experiences have shown to be the most powerful cards. Otherwise the list is just full of people guessing...

Quote from rantipole

Juggernaut is pretty great in an aggro deck. I like it a lot.

Pithing Needle is a great answer to planeswalkers and broken lands. It's also fetchable with Tinker Mage. I highly recommend including it.

I wouldn't cut Bonesplitter, but Sunforger has failed to impress me in my Cube. I recently cut it and doubt it will be missed. Sigil can be insane.

The drawback on War Beast looks too strong. I'd pass on him.

Cheers,
rant

All of this.

I played the War Beast forever, but even in my "classic cube" he ultimately wasn't good enough.

Add all the artifacts too. Cut coldsteel heart and chromatic sphere, etc... for cards like Sol Rong and Grim Monolith. Phyrexian Processor is amazing.

Quote from Phantizle

Basically what I'm asking is for people to make their best effort to rate the cards power, and not to just throw up their hands and say "I didn't rank it because we don't play it".

I'd rather have everybody rank cards they know rather than cards they have no experience with. They don't have to be in your cube in order to put them on the list, but they should all be cards where you can testify to their power.

Quote from Silent Edge

Done and done.

Good. I like it.

Quote from DerBK

Am i slaying some sacred cows when i say that i'd put Time Walk further down the list at about #9 or #10? It's dependent on other card to be abused imo, otherwise it's still good, but not Put-me-next-to-Ancestral insane.

I'd pick all these cards over Time Walk in Blue: Ancestral, Drain, Treachery, Bribery, Tinker, Time Spiral and possibly Forbid.


Also, i'd put Gifts Given at #1, even over Ancestral.

Make a top 20 list. Get your vote in.

I don't think the quality of Time Walk is contingent upon any other cards to make it abusive... at all. You take an extra turn... for 1U. It is abusive, even without other cards.

I also wouldn't put Gifts Given over Ancestral Recall. It's probably a top 10 card when it hits big, but it can miss. Occasionally it's not much better than a Jester's Cap.

But that's just me (and most everybody else that's put up a list thus far). You should really express your opinions in a list though, so we can see what your think.

..........

EDIT: And, I'm really shocked at the lack of Upheaval (/position of Upheaval) on some the later lists. It's... so... good.

All the cards that you're adding should be in the cube already. Put them all in.

All the cards you're on the fence about (Gilded Drake, Vampiric Tutor, Wall of Roots, & Land Tax?)... Add all of those too. There will be something in the list that can come out for Land Tax. It's utterly amazing. Same goes for all the other cards you're adding, and the other 4 you're thinking about adding. Deranged Hermit is a monster. Vampiric Tutor is a staple. So on and so forth.

And get Balance in ASAP.

I think all the special info about the votes for each color should go right under the top 20 list itself in the OP, and then put the top 20 blue underneath that info, etc. It's really helpful.

Quote from hardb0dy

i think you're reading my list backwards.. i put twister ahead but just by a few cards.

I actually missed it completely from your list and have since edited my post.

@ lim_qien

You think that Windfall is a more powerful blue card than Timetwister? Interesting!

Quote from froffenhoffer

Im surprised by the lack of corpse dance..

It was somewhere between #25 and #30 for me.