Ok now I'm at it again bringing back old topics, this time its about side boarding choices post-conflux. I read some of the ideas back in pages 66-68 which was quite interesting some of the choices I couldn't really agree on while other made me change my mind on things.
ATM I would say sbing is my weakess suit so anymore ideas on what you would sb in and out against RDW, Blighting, 5cc, Mirror, Fae, Boat brew & Kithken would be great.
You're spending three mana for one guy, while your opponent is spending three mana for three guys that are likely 2/2s or bigger. In that situation, you either want bigger guys, more guys, or a Wrath of God. Stillmoon Cavalier doesn't "trump" the mirror like it does with Kithkin because Kithkin relied on a about three men to win the game, and BW relies on many more.
If you've played with Faeries, you'll easily see why giving them an extra land is not that big a deal to the aggro player. Like, if the Fae player hits four lands he's already got what he needs. The additional land is totally negligible at that point. Path to Exile is at its best against Fae.
point taken removing SMC now;) now I have room for mind shatter
I don't see why we can't ramp Faeries up to six mana. I mean, the deck functions best on four lands anyway. Path to Exile, for all that it may NOT be, it IS very good against Faeries. But I suppose that's neither here nor there.
Stillmoon Cavalier is awful in the mirror. It doesn't do anything we want it to do, and it's basically useless in every other MU as well. It was cut ages ago and I think it should remain gone. Wrath of God is much better, as it helps us in the mirror, with Kithkin, and against RW Lark (which you didn't mention). Wrath of God lets us race the mirror with pump effects and not lose if they get more than we do. It's more of a safety precaution, after all.
cheers, can I just get a bit more detail on why its so terrible ?
also the reason why PtE is bad on Faeries is because it allow them to cast their counters with their fairly faster together which if I recall isn't a good thing, Faeries with mana to counter is bad
That's because you guys probably play in different metagames entirely. It happens.
As for PtE, I've been running three since last FNM and it definately got the job done, that's for damn sure. Out of the side I had the terrors which was just awesome as well when I did side it in. But PtE is just so efficient, and you can always use it to accel yourself, which I did a couple times, allowing me to play the early Ajani, CGR, etc...
Which was just ridiculous...because it's instant speed rampage people...that's insane.
peace
While I do agree the meta plays a big role in card choices, I just find in the high level meta such as Sydney 500 or 1000 (I know that isn't that high but its the highest I played in) you find the meta to usually consist of the same types of decks, just litter with Fae, RDW, Blighting, and 5cc. All of which you don't want to ramp pre-t6. (though I think boat brew and b/w token number should increase now as well)
In the ones which matter (which good prises at stake) would you still run PtE ?
On other comments since we are on topic about discussing cards choices what do you think of *** vs Stillmoon ? we usually only side in *** during mirror or kithken matches (beside the odd elf) would it be better to use SMC over *** to stall and negate DMG or/and attack during stalling periods rather then wiping out both army I mean we can usaually race each other well after the *** done by you the opponent is usually one card turn ahead of you given that both players are trying not to overextend due to fear of *** ?
Well, the meta I have in mind is the Richmond 5k for this weekend. My sideboard and removal suite would be different for my local shop.
I personally predicting to see alot of blightning beatdown, kithkin, 5cc, and Boat Brew. After that, I think fae will be there. I think a lot of people will be afraid to play fae right now, but it's still a good deck (I still expect to see a few fae running around at the top tables).
vs blightning/BB:
ramp them into SGC
vs Kithkin:
ramp them into CGR
vs 5cc:
ramp them into their late game threats
It seems like terror would be better in all of these cases, but worse against fringe decks like B/G Elves, anything running goblin outlander, Demigod (which seems to be on a decline of how much he's played), etc.
In that case Terror is indeed the better option though vs lark your gonna wish you had them or unmake..... hint hint at the unmake
in my view point we can afford to ramp kithken too CGR since we can effectively race them, though the others including fae PtE is a big no no in my book despite what other may believe
My list is just a little different but not by much. I've been testing this alot on the modo beta where we all have god accounts and I like it quite a bit. I'm still not stuck on the SB but most likely i'll be playing this deck this weekend at an SCG 5k.
I know the single mirrorweave will get the heat from this board, but I've really liked it. There's just alot of good creatures in the format to mirrorweave right now and no one plays around it. Mirrorweaving Rhox War Monks and Mistbind Cliques in your upkeep is just plain awesome.
In my eyes the deck is solid I would change Mirrorweave for an extra Goldmane though, but I can see the fun in upkeep mirrorwaving BMD, CT and MC
Back to PtE vs Terror:
My biggest worry about PtE is accelling the opponent into an SGC or a CGR. The number of creatures that Terror doesn't hit but PtE does is pretty limited with no draw backs. I'm looking into running 2-3 PtE in the sb for when I need to bring it in, but it just seems like terror fills the removal spot fine at this point.
Thoughts?
I dislike PtE in main, due to the number of RDW, Ramp and 5cc players I find that I path a figure or Ram Gang only to be eaten by a demigod and well.... with 5cc no matter when you path them they are happy.
I'm quite lucky since I get the option to (somethimes)discuss cards with Aaron T. Nicastri just by visiting the store located in the city. He made it quite clear about the possible penalty of using PtE.
I think I posted this before but if your meta is RDW and 5cc heavy don't use PtE, but if not PtE works great. Terror is fine since it will work on most of our main problems anyway like the Plumeveil, Rhox War Monks and Mistbind Cliques most of the others our flyers can deal with
risk vs reward, obv, mutavault only helps cast certain spells, and since you run 3, it does not even mean you will see 1 every game.
when you draw them though past your opening hand, you're never upset w/ it
mutavault does help cast bitterblossom, and glorious anthem.
2 of the 4 best cards in this deck (others being spectral procession and windbrisk heights) and helps set off one of the 4 (windbrisk), so i am willing to risk it i guess and so are some pro players in their lists.
we have a lot of B/W tokens in our stores and none run the mutavaults, so it gives me an edge on them in terms of racing since i have more threats.
btw mutavault is also a 2/2 that is not going to get thoughtseized.
*nod nod*, I understand Devils and Shinjutsei argument and agree at most parts. I also experience the horror of drawing mutavault early game without any other land to play beside it its terrible in that sense.
HOWEVER we are only talking about 2-3 mutavault here odds are we won't get it till mid-late game and even if we do draw it early we should have other land as well, I say if you are willing to take the risk his little baby will have you singing.
p.s Devils Advocate how is the deck working out for you the one with 3x Ko3 and 3x KoM is sounds kind of fun since i'm liking Ko2 more and more now, a deck list would be nice
i too like Ko2 but was yelled at for trying to run him
LoL, my bad my bad
I don't think Stillmoon is really that great for this deck, even on SB. Is the mirror a big threat in your meta or something? If not, I would drop it, it's too slow for a curve like this one. A 4th *** and a 4th BFT could probably help. Elspeth is fantastic, if you can find room for her, do it. Ajani is better MD, but if you can squeeze her into the sideboard it's worth it. That's my two cents.
No, I think beside myself their is only two other b/w token decks in my meta I think picking up on another BFT would be great, though I don't think a 4th *** is needed I just might pick up an extra Elspeth and PtE.
The deck is way too color intensive to justify Mutavalut IMO... At least, not without also running Reflecting Pool.
I don't know somethimes I feel like playing 25 lands just to have another Mutavault the mana source has been working out well for me so far with Ko2 and everybody PtE trigger happy its ok. In my view Mutavault is a key card in our deck it helps trigger the heights and works wonders on 5cc.
You're good as gold, man. If I were you I'd drop 2 Ko2 for a 4th KoM and CGR, but it is an interesting choice... Actually, how has that worked for you? I might want to try something similar. Unmake is too slow, you'll have a lot that's better to do with 3 mana. If you're really opposed to PtE, you should probably use Terror or Condemn. But Unmake just doesn't fit the curve. The deck is way too color intensive to justify Mutavalut IMO... At least, not without also running Reflecting Pool. The singleton Elspeth is an interesting choice... But I don't see you getting it when you need it, we have no way to draw cards. But if it helps you, there's no real reason to take it out. What's your SB look like?
The Ko2 have been a god send for me mainly due to the Fulminator Mage love in my area so thats been working great for me plus nothing feels better then losing the roll only to make a major come back with a Ko2 and Sculler in t3 :D, for other players I can see use in him due too his great combination with PoE.
(I know I rag on PtE but sometimes you just need it, just don't use it on RDW, Blighting Beatdown and 5cc then its ok)
ATM I really want to move a second Elspeth into my main but I really don't want to say bye to any of my unmakes, terror is a good choice but I like unmake in my meta due to the number of lark decks.....gosh I hate lark decks.
My main 'hate' for Marsh Flitter is the horrid casting cost, I find that when you draw him early during turn 4 when your all ready to cast him your alway better of doing something else such us using your heights or Goldmane, After your forth turn in mid-late game I don't find Marsh Flitter to all that great since its just a 1/1 flyer his two other walking mates which just tend to be blocked or become dinner for him(is that really a bad thing?, its all up too you).....
But in hindsight I do get why other people like him, it is in essence just like an extra Cloudgoat Ranger & Spectral Procession when is good for reclaiming board dominance after a sweep.
I personally preferElspeth over him for her ongoing factory effect and +3/+3 ability for the same casting cost
His deck seems quite solid, with many forms of 3 for one cards and lark in the sb he can make quick recoveries in sweeps and swarm just as fast on other decks.
I dislike the limited 3 spot removals and the shaky 23 land base without ko2 to recover, but i guess with good shuffling skills it wouldn't matter too much, the extra 3 removals in sb should sit in fine as well.
Though no *** in sb is a scary in my view, but with his level of swarm it might not be needed
I'm not a big fan of Marsh Flitter but I can see why is uses it, I also like how he doesn't use PtE I think its silly in our deck.
My meta is quite diverse with a large portion of players playing agro namely using lark decks with the ever hateful Fulminator Mage, the odd Elf and Kithken player lingers around, along with 5c, planeswalkers, RDW and blighting beat down.
The most difficult match up within the groups tend to be with 5c and lark (both esper and R/W) hence the non-use of our beloved PtE and the inclusion of Ko2 with plenty of basic mana sources.
My experience so far has been quite good having played this deck 3 FMN in row scoring 4th (3,0,1) 3rd (3,0,1) and tie 1st and 2nd (4,0,0) having been playing magic for about 1 month and a bit now I’m still relatively new so any advice would be great.
I strongly believe that 24 lands or more should be a staple in most decks, I would also suggest you change your land base a bit but I believe you running at a budget. Jund Charm is a much more versatile choice over Volcanic Fallout and will usually be the better option (unless your area of play is full of Fae)
Not much to say here, I'm just not a fan of hydras I would suggest picking up some sort of creature removal like Nameless Inversion for example you could just scarp my suggestion for the shriekmaw and take out two other cards you don't like as much and replace them for it.
I would recommend
ATM I would say sbing is my weakess suit so anymore ideas on what you would sb in and out against RDW, Blighting, 5cc, Mirror, Fae, Boat brew & Kithken would be great.
point taken removing SMC now;) now I have room for mind shatter
cheers, can I just get a bit more detail on why its so terrible ?
also the reason why PtE is bad on Faeries is because it allow them to cast their counters with their fairly faster together
While I do agree the meta plays a big role in card choices, I just find in the high level meta such as Sydney 500 or 1000 (I know that isn't that high but its the highest I played in) you find the meta to usually consist of the same types of decks, just litter with Fae, RDW, Blighting, and 5cc. All of which you don't want to ramp pre-t6. (though I think boat brew and b/w token number should increase now as well)
In the ones which matter (which good prises at stake) would you still run PtE ?
On other comments since we are on topic about discussing cards choices what do you think of *** vs Stillmoon ? we usually only side in *** during mirror or kithken matches (beside the odd elf) would it be better to use SMC over *** to stall and negate DMG or/and attack during stalling periods rather then wiping out both army I mean we can usaually race each other well after the *** done by you the opponent is usually one card turn ahead of you given that both players are trying not to overextend due to fear of *** ?
In that case Terror is indeed the better option though vs lark your gonna wish you had them or unmake..... hint hint at the unmake
in my view point we can afford to ramp kithken too CGR since we can effectively race them, though the others including fae PtE is a big no no in my book despite what other may believe
In my eyes the deck is solid I would change Mirrorweave for an extra Goldmane though, but I can see the fun in upkeep mirrorwaving BMD, CT and MC
I dislike PtE in main, due to the number of RDW, Ramp and 5cc players I find that I path a figure or Ram Gang only to be eaten by a demigod and well.... with 5cc no matter when you path them they are happy.
I'm quite lucky since I get the option to (somethimes)discuss cards with Aaron T. Nicastri just by visiting the store located in the city. He made it quite clear about the possible penalty of using PtE.
I think I posted this before but if your meta is RDW and 5cc heavy don't use PtE, but if not PtE works great. Terror is fine since it will work on most of our main problems anyway like the Plumeveil, Rhox War Monks and Mistbind Cliques most of the others our flyers can deal with
HOWEVER we are only talking about 2-3 mutavault here odds are we won't get it till mid-late game and even if we do draw it early we should have other land as well, I say if you are willing to take the risk his little baby will have you singing.
p.s Devils Advocate how is the deck working out for you the one with 3x Ko3 and 3x KoM is sounds kind of fun since i'm liking Ko2 more and more now, a deck list would be nice
LoL, my bad my bad
No, I think beside myself their is only two other b/w token decks in my meta I think picking up on another BFT would be great, though I don't think a 4th *** is needed I just might pick up an extra Elspeth and PtE.
I don't know somethimes I feel like playing 25 lands just to have another Mutavault the mana source has been working out well for me so far with Ko2 and everybody PtE trigger happy its ok. In my view Mutavault is a key card in our deck it helps trigger the heights and works wonders on 5cc.
The Ko2 have been a god send for me mainly due to the Fulminator Mage love in my area so thats been working great for me plus nothing feels better then losing the roll only to make a major come back with a Ko2 and Sculler in t3 :D, for other players I can see use in him due too his great combination with PoE.
My Sb as it currently stands are:
2x Path to Exile
3x Wrath of God
3x Stillmoon Cavalier
3x BFT
3x Wispmare
1x Elspeth
ATM I really want to move a second Elspeth into my main but I really don't want to say bye to any of my unmakes, terror is a good choice but I like unmake in my meta due to the number of lark decks.....gosh I hate lark decks.
My main 'hate' for Marsh Flitter is the horrid casting cost, I find that when you draw him early during turn 4 when your all ready to cast him your alway better of doing something else such us using your heights or Goldmane, After your forth turn in mid-late game I don't find Marsh Flitter to all that great since its just a 1/1 flyer his two other walking mates which just tend to be blocked or become dinner for him(is that really a bad thing?, its all up too you).....
But in hindsight I do get why other people like him, it is in essence just like an extra Cloudgoat Ranger & Spectral Procession when is good for reclaiming board dominance after a sweep.
I personally prefer Elspeth over him for her ongoing factory effect and +3/+3 ability for the same casting cost
4 Cloudgoat Ranger
4 Knight of Meadowgrain
3 Marsh Flitter
4 Tidehollow Sculler
instant [3]
3 Unmake
sorcery [8]
4 Spectral Procession
4 Thoughtseize
enchantment [8]
4 Bitterblossom
4 Glorious Anthem
3 Arcane Sanctum
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Fetid Heath
5 Plains
3 Reflecting Pool
4 Windbrisk Heights
planeswalker [3]
3 Ajani Goldmane
60 cards
3 Burrenton Forge-Tender
3 Reveillark
3 Stillmoon Cavalier
3 Wispmare
3 Terror
15 cards
I dislike the limited 3 spot removals and the shaky 23 land base without ko2 to recover, but i guess with good shuffling skills it wouldn't matter too much, the extra 3 removals in sb should sit in fine as well.
Though no *** in sb is a scary in my view, but with his level of swarm it might not be needed
I'm not a big fan of Marsh Flitter but I can see why is uses it, I also like how he doesn't use PtE I think its silly in our deck.
what do you guys thinks ?
2x Ko2
4x Tidehollow Sculler
3x Cloudgoat Ranger
3x Knight of Meadowgrain
Instances
4x Unmake
Enchantments
4x Bitterblosson
4x Glorious Anthem
4x Spectral Procession
4x Thoughtseize
Land
4x Windbrisk Heights
4x Fetid Heath
3x Arcane Sanctum
4x Caves of Koilos
5x Plains
2x Swamps
2x Mutavault
3x Ajani Goldmane
1x Elspeth
The most difficult match up within the groups tend to be with 5c and lark (both esper and R/W) hence the non-use of our beloved PtE and the inclusion of Ko2 with plenty of basic mana sources.
My experience so far has been quite good having played this deck 3 FMN in row scoring 4th (3,0,1) 3rd (3,0,1) and tie 1st and 2nd (4,0,0) having been playing magic for about 1 month and a bit now I’m still relatively new so any advice would be great.
- 4 Volcanic Fallout
+ 3 Jund Charm
+ 1 Land e.g. treetop or reflecting pool
I strongly believe that 24 lands or more should be a staple in most decks, I would also suggest you change your land base a bit but I believe you running at a budget. Jund Charm is a much more versatile choice over Volcanic Fallout and will usually be the better option (unless your area of play is full of Fae)
- 3 Apocalypse Hydra
- 2 Feral Hydra
+ 1 Creakwood Liege
+ 2 Cloudthresher
+ 2 Shriekmaw
Not much to say here, I'm just not a fan of hydras I would suggest picking up some sort of creature removal like Nameless Inversion for example you could just scarp my suggestion for the shriekmaw and take out two other cards you don't like as much and replace them for it.
I would recommend
-1 Rampant Growth
-2 Feral Hydra
-1 Primal Command
For
+4 Nameless Inversion