Leatherback Baloth is a great card but not really for Cube. In constructed you can build around that casting cost, but in cube it looks to limiting. But I would love to play a green aggro deck based on playing this bad boy turn 2:o.
We kicked the Bounce lands out as the CIPT was slowing the decks down a lot. So far our cube plays pretty fast and it seemed that the loss in speed was too damaging.
I'm really looking for a 6th white 1-drop, and I know the other 5 are leagues ahead of him. The only 2 other contenders are Icatian Javelineers and Goldmeadow Harrier (and maybeAkrasan Squire)... but I want to try the Steppe Lynx first before putting a white 1-drop back in that I've already cut for being sub par. I need to see his performance for myself.
My vote is for Goldmeadow Harrier. I really like this card. It works well as an aggro enabler and it works as a quick control card.
White has such superb aggro creatures that the Lynx just doesn't feel as it is on par with the others. The Harrier adds more then the Lynx in my opinion.
We cut Undiscovered Paradise as it slowed us down too much, but that was before Zendikar. It is great how everything is connected as Landfall might just be what could make us consider Undiscovered Paradise again.
I guess when you reference LD, you are talking about primarily about ld with a single target. It's probably ok, but I don't think green should be so heavy into it, especially since it probably doesn't have the tools to capitalize. If you want ld to be decently heavy in your cube, I would go for the stax variants of it. The stax destruction cards play better together and are generally more crippling than their green counterparts. My cube is a pretty good example of what prison can look like in the cube, if you are looking for examples.
Which important Stax/prison cards are we missing Drahcir? I looked through your list but couldn' pinpoint exactly which cards you were referring to.
My support for Green LD comes from doing very well in constructed for a while with a Green LD ( Similar to this deck from Levy during Extended around Urza Block). The flow of that deck impressed me so much, it for always convinced me of the power of mana elves and land destruction. I agree that the cards on themself seem a bit subpar, but we haven't played enough to decide if our trust in LD is just a pet archetype or if it actually works.
For Blue I think two of these cards will probably leave the cube: Draining Whelk, Fairy Trickery or a 3/1 flyer.
Yes, but then playable;) More like Sulfuric Vortex or possible Enslave. The clock setting ability, feels flavourful to me, like poison but then playable.
I'm not a big fan of superlarge creatures with near invulnerabilities (see Darksteel Colossus). I want my multiplayer games to be as competitive as possible, without having someone bring in a creature on first turn and can literally win the game like that.
One would have to work hard (and get lucky) to do that no? And I think they would deserve a reward (winning) when it actually works instead of being a dead card in your hand like it so often is. I mean you can still Edict or Swords the creature or counter the Tinker.
Which counters would you guys cut to get those two in? I hesitate between Draining Whelk, Faerie Trickery, Complicate, Power Sink and Miscalculation. Or we could remove other cards but then the number of counters might get 'too high'. Well not really too many counters, but not enough card draw, bounce or creatures could be problematic.
How has Land Destruction been for those who put it in as a viable archetype liek we did? So far it performs rather well, except for the fact that if nobody goes for it from the beginning the LD cards often get late picked and act as mediocre side board cards. But this problem goes for a lot of other archetypes too I guess (look at all the people struggling with aggro).
I think the key is to just give any good Aura Split Second (Or/and shroud to the creaute it enchants). This solves the main 2 for 1 weakness and goes a long way in making Aura's cubable. Split Second only solves the risk at the moment of casting, but that is the most crucial point. If you can kill it later on,the enchantment has had it chance.
This also solves the problem that the effect doesn't have to be rediciously powerful to offset the 2 for 1 danger which kills the changes of all but a few Aura's chances in the cube. If you just up the power level of the card to counter this then for me it reduces the 'fairness' or 'fun' level of the card, because if you do not have an immidiate answer you only get hit by the advantages of the card and the one playing it only gets the advantages. It is a bit like tossing a coin to determine the strength of the card.
None of these cards are really necessary. We play a lot of them but we run 75 cards per colour which matters a lot.
For me the best areJackal Pup if you want to support Red as a aggro colour and possibly World Queller if you can stomach to cut something for it (always the hard part).
Is the consensus that Remand and Memory Lapse are just better then more expensive hard counters like Rewind and Faerie Trickerie?
I like Memory Lapse myself. Remand was played in a period where our Magic activities were very limited, so maybe we underestimate this card.
I do feel unsure about the fact that they do not solve the problem. Ofcourse the upside is that they regularly act as a Time Walk.
I would like to make WU control a bit stronger. Strange enough it has been a bit mediocre so far. UB control seems to work a lot better though. We haven't drafted that often so far, so it could just be bad luck for this archytype.
I personally love the good old bore-you-to-hell WU decks;). Do we miss any staple card for this archytype?
Good suggestions Donald, thanks! We will definelty consider those cards when we sit down for the next update.
The reason why some sections have more cards is the system we used. We started 4 of each enemy combination and 6 of each allied combination. Then we gave ourselves ten spots for three or more colour cards and for cards that just missed the cut in the two colour sections. We really wanted to minimize the three colour section, as we felt that they are too narrow. We almost banned them on principle, but we couldn't stomach not using some of them. That is the reason why some of the two colour sections have an additional card.
How as Su-Chi and Cathodion performed in your cube? Have you had a chance to abuse the extra mana that they provide? Or do you just use it at a 4/4 body??
Well this list is brand new. We have drafted only once so far (and we only played the first round so far) with the new selection and Su-Chi didn't come out. But I don't see how it can be bad. 90 % of the time it will propably just be a 4/4 for 4. Though that is not bad for a card that is playable for almost every single deck you can draft. It rarely will be a wow card I think though.
2. Fetches
3. Shocks
4. Filters
5. M10
6. Pains
8. Mirage Fetches
8. Bounces
9. Trilands
We kicked the Bounce lands out as the CIPT was slowing the decks down a lot. So far our cube plays pretty fast and it seemed that the loss in speed was too damaging.
EDIT: Forget the Mirage fetches.
My vote is for Goldmeadow Harrier. I really like this card. It works well as an aggro enabler and it works as a quick control card.
White has such superb aggro creatures that the Lynx just doesn't feel as it is on par with the others. The Harrier adds more then the Lynx in my opinion.
We cut Undiscovered Paradise as it slowed us down too much, but that was before Zendikar. It is great how everything is connected as Landfall might just be what could make us consider Undiscovered Paradise again.
Which important Stax/prison cards are we missing Drahcir? I looked through your list but couldn' pinpoint exactly which cards you were referring to.
My support for Green LD comes from doing very well in constructed for a while with a Green LD ( Similar to this deck from Levy during Extended around Urza Block). The flow of that deck impressed me so much, it for always convinced me of the power of mana elves and land destruction. I agree that the cards on themself seem a bit subpar, but we haven't played enough to decide if our trust in LD is just a pet archetype or if it actually works.
For Blue I think two of these cards will probably leave the cube: Draining Whelk, Fairy Trickery or a 3/1 flyer.
Thanks for the help so far!
Yes, but then playable;) More like Sulfuric Vortex or possible Enslave. The clock setting ability, feels flavourful to me, like poison but then playable.
One would have to work hard (and get lucky) to do that no? And I think they would deserve a reward (winning) when it actually works instead of being a dead card in your hand like it so often is. I mean you can still Edict or Swords the creature or counter the Tinker.
To come back on Green I think I would like to find room for the Oracle of Mul Daya. Probably either Mwonvuli Acid Moss or Reap and Sow or possibly Fastbond, though that just feels wrong.
How has Land Destruction been for those who put it in as a viable archetype liek we did? So far it performs rather well, except for the fact that if nobody goes for it from the beginning the LD cards often get late picked and act as mediocre side board cards. But this problem goes for a lot of other archetypes too I guess (look at all the people struggling with aggro).
This also solves the problem that the effect doesn't have to be rediciously powerful to offset the 2 for 1 danger which kills the changes of all but a few Aura's chances in the cube. If you just up the power level of the card to counter this then for me it reduces the 'fairness' or 'fun' level of the card, because if you do not have an immidiate answer you only get hit by the advantages of the card and the one playing it only gets the advantages. It is a bit like tossing a coin to determine the strength of the card.
Yes indeed a bit of a pitty as it dilutes the discussion. I for one don't want to write the same post twice and copy pasting things just seems silly.
The initial focus of the two threads was different though.
For me the best areJackal Pup if you want to support Red as a aggro colour and possibly World Queller if you can stomach to cut something for it (always the hard part).
I like Memory Lapse myself. Remand was played in a period where our Magic activities were very limited, so maybe we underestimate this card.
I do feel unsure about the fact that they do not solve the problem. Ofcourse the upside is that they regularly act as a Time Walk.
I personally love the good old bore-you-to-hell WU decks;). Do we miss any staple card for this archytype?
The reason why some sections have more cards is the system we used. We started 4 of each enemy combination and 6 of each allied combination. Then we gave ourselves ten spots for three or more colour cards and for cards that just missed the cut in the two colour sections. We really wanted to minimize the three colour section, as we felt that they are too narrow. We almost banned them on principle, but we couldn't stomach not using some of them. That is the reason why some of the two colour sections have an additional card.
Well this list is brand new. We have drafted only once so far (and we only played the first round so far) with the new selection and Su-Chi didn't come out. But I don't see how it can be bad. 90 % of the time it will propably just be a 4/4 for 4. Though that is not bad for a card that is playable for almost every single deck you can draft. It rarely will be a wow card I think though.