And as dead as this clan is now, it's lively compared to the other clans--only a few of which have even posted anything this year let alone in the last month.
Oh, how the mighty have fallen.
- Russian Alara
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Member for 14 years, 11 months, and 24 days
Last active Fri, Feb, 8 2019 23:08:06
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pikachugundam posted a message on [The Crafters] are trapped in Limbo...Anyone look at the speculation of Shadows Over Innistrad? Clearly, this is Madness...Posted in: Clans -
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lucashungaro posted a message on [Primer] MonoU Tron - "The well-oiled machine"Posted in: ControlU MonoU Tron U
*thanks Tezna for the awesome banner
MonoU Tron is a deck powered by the so-called Urzatron lands (Urza's Mine, Urza's Power Plant and Urza's Tower) which, together, produce 7 mana instead of just three. This allows you to cast powerful win conditions and obtain the dreamy inevitability.
The plan is to stall the early game while playing a good amount of cantrips, mana fixers/ramp and card draw until you assemble the full "Tron". Reaching that point gives you a large resource advantage, greatly reducing the possibility of losing the game.
Blue gives you almost everything you need to control the early game, stabilize your board position, refill your hand and win - counters, bounce, draw and wincon tutoring. You should also play a good number of utility artifacts like Talisman of Dominance and Expedition Map to get color fixing and assemble the Tron faster.
After that you'll usually win via Mindslaver lock (Mindslaver + Academy Ruins + 12 mana, letting you recurrently control your opponent's turn), Sundering Titan (punishing greedy manabases) or Wurmcoil Engine (beats the crap out of aggro decks). You also have Platinum Angel for the combo matchups and overall last resort.
Why should you play it?
The deck is fun, cheap (for a competitive deck) and powerful. Can't get better than that. It combines aspects from tempo and control decks, it's highly interactive and demands a lot skill and practice, being highly rewarding.
It has a good matchup versus Combo and Control. You pack a good amount of permission and Tron gives you inevitability if the game goes long, so these matchups are generally favorable even before sideboarding.
On the other hand, the matchup versus fast aggressive decks is bad as it has always been for monoblue decks. Most of the SB space is dedicated to that matchups for this reason.
How does it work?
In the early game you play Talismans/Signets and Expedition Map to fix your colors and get the Tron online. In the meantime you'll use cards like Remand, Repeal and Condescend to control the game until you can do a game-ending move, being it a big creature or the Mindslaver lock. If your draws does not help you, Treasure Mage is there to ensure you'll get your finishers and Thirst for Knowledge works great to refill your hand and dig for the missing pieces or answers.
If you have enough mana and Academy Ruins (or a Map to get it), most of the times you'll tutor for Mindslaver and go for the lock. If you still don't have it in place, it's common to fetch Sundering Titan if you're playing against a deck full of shocklands or Wurmcoil Engine otherwise. Platinum Angel is a good option when facing combo decks or when you fall behind against decks that can't deal with it.
Also keep in mind that even without the lock in place, one or two Mindslavers activations can win a lot of games.
There are also the occasions when you'll win via Solemn Simulacrum/Treasure Mage beats, these guys can be a decently fast clock with permission backup.
Well-oiled machine?
That's how the creator of the deck (shoktroopa on MTGO) affectionately calls it. It fits well with the theme, as all the wincons are "machines".
FAQ
Why no Karn Liberated?
The general consensus is that Karn is really awesome on Gr Tron, a deck 100% focused on assembling the Tron lands ASAP, letting you cast Karn quickly (turn 3 or 4), while not being as good in a deck that generally plays draw-go for a while and takes way more time to assemble the Tron. Landing a Karn on turn 8 is indeed unimpressive in a format like Modern and by the time you can do it, you're better just smashing people with a Wurmcoil Engine backed by counters or completely locking the game with Mindslaver.
Card choices
Utility lands
Academy Ruins: part of the Mindslaver lock. Once you get it going, you'll control your opponent's turn indefinitely by using Mindslaver's ability and then getting it back with Ruins. Just activate Ruins' ability during your Upkeep, then draw Mindslaver, play and activate it. Rinse, repeat.
Oboro, Palace in the Clouds: it's an Island with the added ability to save itself or filter colorless Tron mana into double Blue mana (tap for Blue, bounce, play again and tap for Blue once more).
Tectonic Edge: all-around utility against annoying lands, manlands and other Tron decks.
Ghost Quarter: another out to annoying lands like Celestial Colonnade, Raging Ravine and Tron pieces.
Dreadship Reef: some builds use it with great results. It's a good mana sink for these turns when you keep open mana for counters, pass and your opponent does nothing. Having 5+ counters on it during long games vs Control decks isn't unusual.
Thespian's Stage: can be used to protect your Urza lands from land destruction, to copy other utility lands (even your opponent's lands) or just to copy a Urza land (generally Tower) for extra mana.
Buried Ruin: poor man's Academy Ruins? Used together with Crucible of Worlds for artifact recurrence.
Phyrexia's Core: this and Spine of Ish Sah equals recurrent permanent destruction. Slow, but used by some players.
Mana fixers/acceleration
Talisman of Dominance or Talisman of Progress: helps you get colored mana and provides a bit of acceleration. Some people prefer to use Signets (like Izzet Signet or Simic Signet) when splashing other colors.
Expedition Map: awesome card, can find your Tron lands, fix colors and fetch utility lands too.
Bounce/Removal
Repeal: nice tempo card, can deal with any annoying non-land permanent, like Planeswalkers, enchantments and artifacts.
Into the Roil: potentially cheaper than Repeal for the same effect for bigger threats.
Cyclonic Rift: some people prefer this as the Overload cost is easily paid with Tron online.
Aetherize: useful if aggressive decks are giving you trouble.
Counters
Remand: great tempo card. Will delay your opponent and draw another card. Since your deck is packed with a few finishers and a lot of efficient responses, odds are you'll get another good card to keep your opponent at bay. Also allows for nice tricks as Remanding your own spells can save you a card and make your opponent lose one.
Condescend and Spell Burst: both are awesome once you have the full Tron in place. Condescend is a bit better in the early game while Spell Burst can be almost a hard lock in the late game.
Spell Pierce: helps a lot on MUs where Remand sucks, like Burn and aggro. Also an option to get through counters and disrupt combo.
Dispel, Spell Snare: nice counters against typical control decks, helps you get your threats through counters.
Mana Leak: good overall counter. Rarely used on Tron 'cause it does not give you tempo advantage (think Remand's cantrip and Condescend's Scry).
Flashfreeze: Really good replacement for Remand against all the aggressive G/R decks.
Card draw
Thirst for Knowledge: instant speed, digs 3 cards and allows you to select which ones to discard. Gets even better in the late game when, most of the time, you don't need Talisman and Expedition Map anymore
Compulsive Research: played in old Tron decks. Can be useful in builds that play Crucible of Worlds.
Utility creatures
Treasure Mage: gets your finishers, chump blocks. A fundamental part of the deck.
Solemn Simulacrum: ramps/fixes your mana, chump blocks, replaces itself when dead. Another staple here.
Platinum Angel: a lot of decks can't deal with this. Even the decks that can will have to focus on doing that, buying you some time.
Finishers
Mindslaver: get it online together with Academy Ruins and enough mana and it's GG.
Wurmcoil Engine: great against aggro and midrange, not so good against anything that packs Path to Exile.
Sundering Titan: most of the top decks in the format are playing a high number o shocklands. In these MUs, this is almost a one-sided Armageddon with a 7/10 body attached to it. When killed, it punishes again.
Steel Hellkite: also very good vs aggro because of his "Engineered Explosives ability". More easily removed than Wurmcoil, though.
Artifacts
Trading Post: good overall utility, used by some players. It can by turns vs aggro, has a good interaction with Solemn Simulacrum and can generate recurrent Wurmcoils (sac Wurmcoil for the last ability, sac a Wurm token for the third one, re-play Wurmcoil, repeat).
Spine of Ish Sah: costly, but a solution for a deck that has problems dealing with permanents (other than bounce effects).
Crucible of Worlds: used as an engine to recur lands or protection against land destruction.
Issues and bad matchups
1) Mana color: you should avoid playing a large amount of spells with double+ colored mana requirements. Artifacts and "lightweight" (one colored mana symbol only) spells like Thirst for Knowledge should have priority.
2) Land destruction and Blood Moon: Blood Moon is a real issue, you have only Repeal to deal with it basically. People are also packing Sowing Salt, Ghost Quarter and Tectonic Edge to combat Tron decks. This deck relies on having Tron assembled to win (yes, sometimes you'll be able to cast a Wurmcoil/Sundering Titan/Platinum Angel without Tron and win, but that's the exception) so it's more fragile to LD in comparison to other Tron decks (UW, UR, GR).
3) Fast/efficient aggro: Blue doesn't have creature removal, just bounce, so a really fast aggro decks are an issue too. Basically anything that can throw more creatures/speels than you can counter/bounce or absorb for some turns is a bad matchup. This includes Burn, Affinity, Gruul Zoo, Infect, Goblins and Merfolk. Your best bet is to cast a Wurmcoil or Platinum Angel as soon as possible. Also mulligan aggressively to get hands with early interaction (Repeal, Remand pre-board, adding Dismember, Spell Pierce and Spellskite post-board).
Cards for the Sideboard
Spellskite: good all-around SB utility. Can stop a number of combo decks, slow down Bogle, Burn and Infect and eat Bolts/Paths from UWR.
Dismember: creature removal for Blue. Yeah, 4 life is a lot, but it's "better" that getting hit by a creature for 4 turns and losing the game.
Chalice of the Void: another nice wildcard that doesn't require colored mana, can be used against Affinity, Infect, Bogle and Burn, among other decks.
Engineered Explosives: a nice way to wipe the board from small creatures.
Ratchet Bomb: a slightly slower Engineered Explosives. Good on the draw, bad mid/late game top deck.
Pithing Needle: all-around utility that can stop decks based on activated abilities while also dealing with Planeswalkers, Tec Edges, DRS, Knight of the Reliquary etc.
Torpor Orb: mainly used against Splinter Twin and Melira Pod. Keep in mind it disables Treasure Mage and Solemn Simulacrum.
Tormod's Crypt: cheap, one-shot graveyard hate.
Relic of Progenitus: more graveyard hate that can be used throughout the game to dismantle your opponent's game plan.
Grafdigger's Cage: stops Melira Pod and reanimators.
Faerie Macabre: I love this card 'cause it gets your opponent off-guard. You can tap out and still disrupt GY-based strategies. The downside is that is only removes up to two cards.
Steel Wall, Kaijin of the Vanishing Touch, Kraken Hatchling: these help the MU vs aggressive decks by blocking and/or eating burn spells that would go to your face.
Hurkyl's Recall: delays Affinity and Eggs for some turns.
Threads of Disloyalty: I really like this card. Stealing Tarmogoyfs is a very good thing in my book.
Trickbind: can be used against a wide variety of decks, like Pod and Twin. Also works as LD for fetches and can counter triggers like Annihilator and Snapcaster's flashback ability.
Squelch: like Trickbind, but can be countered/responded and doesn't counter triggered abilities. Upside is the cantrip.
Shadow of Doubt: tech against Gifts Ungiven, Chord of Calling, Treasure Mage and other tutors. Also fun against fetches. A bit too reactive, though (you either draw one before your opponent tutors for something and advance his game plan or it's just a dead draw - at least it cycles).
Decklists
GP Boston-Worcester 2014 43rd place, Samuele Estratti
PTQ Rome 2014 (295 players) 1st place, Marco Cammilluzzi
GP Brisbane 2013 17th place, Ben Flemming
Here are two builds from the deck creator (shoktroopa on MTGO), with different sideboards:
shoktroopa (1st Place)
Modern Premier #4965298 on 02/04/2013
shoktroopa (2nd Place)
Modern Premier #5019868 on 02/18/2013
DoubleDrain
Modern Premier #6800285 on 03/02/2014
Specific sideboarding and matchup advice
For SB advice on the more recent version of the deck (with Fabricate): http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/established-modern/220176-monou-tron-the-well-oiled-machine?comment=2767
Below is the SB advice for the original version.
Given the following SB:
- 4 Dismember
- 2 Relic of Progenitus
- 2 Spell Pierce
- 2 Spellskite
- 2 Spreading Seas
- 2 Squelch
- 1 Wurmcoil Engine
vs Aggro (Gruul, Zoo, Goblins, Burn etc)
+4 Dismember
+1 Wurmcoil Engine
-2 Thirst for Knowledge
-2 Remand (on the draw)
-1 Mindslaver
Quote from shoktroopa »
You can take out a Titan too if you want but I like the option of crushing their mana if they are short
Bring in Spell Pierce v more spell friendly aggro
Here's what I look for in the aggro matchups:
I want a t1 play, t2 play, t3 play
Dismember, Map, t2 Repeal or Talisman
Or Remand/Condescend on the play
And preferably a Mage t3 if I don't slow'em
That's fantasy land, but it's all about curving out
Just try to curve out v the aggro. Repeals, Condescend, do Whatever to slow em down
vs Pod
+4 Dismember
+2 Spell Pierce (on the draw)
+2 Squelch
-1 Wurmcoil Engine
-1 Mindslaver
-2 Solemn Simulacrum
-2 Talisman
If bringing in Spell Pierce:
-1 Platinum Angel
-1 Treasure Mage
vs Eggs
+2 Spell Pierce
+2 Squelch
-1 Wurmcoil Engine
-1 Titan
-2 Solemn Simulacrum
vs Scapeshift
+2 Spell Pierce
+2 Squelch
+2 Spreading Seas
-1 Solemn Simulacrum
-1 Oblivion Stone
-3 Repeal
-1 Wurmcoil Engine
vs RG Tron
+2 Spell Pierce
+2 Squelch
+2 Spreading Seas
-1 Sundering Titan
-1 Platinum Angel
-2 Solemn Simulacrum
-1 Repeal
-1 Talisman
vs Soul Sisters
+4 Dismember
+1 Wurmcoil Engine
-1 Thirst for Knowledge
-1 Mindslaver
-1 Sundering Titan
-2 Remand
On Spreading Seas:
Quote from shoktroopa »
It's in there to help v Tron, cycles v Scapeshift (over useless Repeals) and for infect surprisingly
It's just a random speed bump v some decks that cantrips.
On Snapcaster Mage:
Quote from shoktroopa »
Here is the deal on snapcaster. I've found myself autoboarding out talismans in almost every matchup where the color white is present. I auto assume stoney silence is coming in. SO our goal is to make that card useless. It normally is. But snapcaster comes in out of the board damn near every game. He's a chump blocker, or reusable instants. Against aggro you are going to want to cut the clunky cards and cut our CMC. IDK if this helps or makes any sense but thats how we roll on this side of the mississipi.
On Chalice of the Void:
Quote from shoktroopa »
Chalice is only good on the play so u bring it in 50% on games 2 or 3.
Maximize every card. That's what it's about.
Your board has to be cards that increase the bad matchups every time we bring them in
Same thing with Ratchet Bomb and EE
Useless on the draw
Videos/Coverage/Deck tech
Deck tech with NoSnapYoloKozilek (Thomas Pendergast) at SCG Charlotte - http://www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/monoblue_tron_with_thomas_pend.html
Samuele Estratti (U Tron) vs Greg Ogreenc (Burn), GP Boston 2014, Round 5 - http://www.twitch.tv/magic/b/551457114?t=2h21m30s
Samuele Estratti (U Tron) vs Denys Miasoutov (Burn), GP Boston 2014, Round 10 - http://www.twitch.tv/magic/b/551745646?t=44m10s
- 4 Dismember
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NateTheArtificer posted a message on The truth is irrelevant, we make our own facts.Well, that was informative and discrete.Posted in: Clans -
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Jivanmukta posted a message on The truth is irrelevant, we make our own facts.We could go with Pink Floyd - Eclipse. Using that for Dimir has some nice dark connotations.Posted in: Clans -
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Lasersharp posted a message on [The Crafters] are trapped in Limbo...Glad things are going well. Congrats!Posted in: Clans
Meanwhile I'm now trying to play Chopin's Op. 25 no. 8, another one that takes about 60 seconds (usually slightly over though).
(The one I did just before was Op. 25 no. 9, which is usually just under 60 seconds.) -
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lucashungaro posted a message on [Primer] 4C GiftsPosted in: Modern Archives - EstablishedQuote from FuneralofGod »The extra two cards that don't make it to your hand (with TT or Anticipate) aren't necessarily both bad cards. The option to pitch both and keep the best card (via Anticipate) is nice, but what if there is more than one card you really want to see in your by the next turn? Telling Time is not strictly worse than Anticipate.
This is conjectural. All 3 cards can be good or bad, 1-2 bad, 1-2 good etc... I've lost a bunch of games when I was playing Scapeshift because TT forced me to keep a dead draw, so I'm not a big fan of the card.
On the topic of Sun Titan, I think the strongest reason to play it is if you're playing some number of Fulminator Mage on the SB. -
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Lectrys posted a message on [Primer] Melira Pod / Angel Pod / Junk Pod / Abzan Pod (8/2011 - 1/2015)Posted in: Modern Archives - ProvenQuote from RichardKatten »I started playing Pod just a couple of weeks ago and I haven't been able to play as much as I had hoped prior to a tournament this coming weekend. I have a couple of questions that I hope you fellas could help me out with (btw I'm playing LSVs Angel Pod list but with Courser of Kruphix and Anafenza, the Foremost):
1) When should I try to go for the "combo-win" and when should I just beat down? Obviously this varies a lot between match-ups and depends on what I have in play etc but I feel like I pod away creatures a bit too often and just end up with an awkward board state when someone bolts a piece of the combo. Especially when I could have just kept smashing face. Do I pod to answer or to pressure? Let's say I have a Wall of Roots in play. Do I keep it around to help play my upcoming 4-drop or do I pod it into an Anafenza, the Foremost to put pressure on my opponent? Again, obviously this varies a lot between match-ups.
2) I don't like Thoughtseize in the deck. It's a good card but I just want more tools in my toolbox and I'd rather put in more utility creatures, but I'm not sure which ones to put in. Can I run both Archangel of Thune and Melira, Sylvok Outcast in the deck? Removing 4 Thoughtseize for Melira, Viscera Seer and more Kitchen Finks?
Sorry if I seem like I have no clue what I'm talking about, because... well I don't.
- I generally assemble the combo if I have X-1 combo pieces down already (i.e. I can complete the combo within a turn--X=3 for Melira and X=2 for Angel), and I generally instigate the Melira combo by sacrificing a Persist dude if I have 2+ Persist dudes or protection. I sac Finks first, then Redcap--if they boot in response to Finks stuff, I sac Redcap in response, and if they don't boot, I gain infinite life. I generally instigate the Angel combo if I have protection, more than 2 +1/+1 counters on Spike Feeder, or life gain that I can activate in response to removal. You can afford to be a lot more reckless with the Angel combo if all you're afraid of is burn spells, though, as 2 +1/+1 counters on the entire team is often good enough. I generally Pod to answer--then again, grinding them out with Finks into 4-drops or Voice of Resurgence into Eternal Witness picking up Voice does answer and pressure other grindy decks. I will turbo chain Finks into 4-drop into Shriekmaw to kill Scavenging Ooze--luckily, Shriekmaw puts surprising amounts of pressure on opponents after killing Ooze.
- You can run both Archangel and Melira in the same deck--Pod is pretty flexible! Heck, if you're daring, you can run no combos maindeck! ...Just pray you don't run into other Pod decks if you run no maindeck combos, though--I generally found that I kept losing the Pod mirror when I ran no combo Pod decks.
Quote from Tempest753 »I've felt like I kinda want to maindeck entomber exarch in melira pod. Most pod lists I see either maindeck sin collector or don't run maindeck hand hate at all, but I feel like entomber is a lot more diverse than sin collector. Collector is dead if your opponent isn't really playing many instants or sorceries, or at least it forces your opponent to use their instants in response and you get nothing. In comparison I really like the fact that exarch can just be eternal witness #2 if you don't want to take your opponent's cards and it also costs 4 rather than 3 which means it lies at a different CMC than eternal witness. Furthermore exarch can take enchantment/artifact combo pieces or even tron lands. Why don't more pod decks play maindeck entombers? Is the +1 CMC over sin collector really that big a deal that collector is preferred even though it's far more narrow?
Sin Collector ripping out evil cards sooner is a pretty big deal, especially in the match-ups where you want to board Collectors in. I don't whiff with Turn 2 Tidehollow Sculler, but my Turn 3+ Scullers often don't nab instants or sorceries--heck, they nab creatures fairly often. That's why I don't like Collector maindeck. I therefore suspect Entomber Exarch is on Gravedigger mode too often, and the only good news for Entomber Exarch there is that BGx Midrange is definitely on the downswing (although Goyf Twin might pick up Ooze again, and Zoo looks like it's getting a little more popular). -
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pikachugundam posted a message on [The Crafters] are trapped in Limbo...I submitted the inquiry via e-mail... and signed it because it was a formal complaint. Both CFB and Cascade have replied that they will work on the communication situation as they agree that miscommunication is something that should not be happening. I think they handled the main event well, but the side events will always be something of a headache because of the sheer number of them.Posted in: Clans -
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vligerdragon posted a message on [The Crafters] are trapped in Limbo...Fiancé says there's nothing obvious and that you're doing a bunch of weird things. He says that error doesn't make sense for where you says it shows up.Posted in: Clans - To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
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Would you guys object if I be a friend of the clan? I am very sociable and actually don't bite
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Laser , how many times did I tell you: never play with the laser at school, the electricity grid can't take it
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In syphon's defense , he is nicest milltant I know, having served in the Net together.
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Double Posting Rule
After discussion amongst the Clan Council, the moderators here have decided to remove the double posting rule. Spamming is still not allowed, as per the rest of the site, but we felt that the double posting rule was unintuitive and no longer served the purpose it was implemented for.
If you have any queries about this, please do not hesitate to contact any of the Clans moderators!
__________________
Second: was turned down , but that just means I have to work harder.
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don't forget to film her also , videos are proof
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I wish you luck against Affinity