I've got high hopes for this deck come AVR's printing. Here is my latest take on the deck. Sideboard is still subjected to what the metagame will evolve into.
As for the Snapcaster/Grim Lavamancer clash in the deck. They both serve critical roles in the deck and may co-exist due to Grim mostly feeding of dead creatures and fetchlands while the snaps hope to flashback that game ending burn. I basically ensure I have at least one burn target for snapcaster and the rest can be feed to Grim. The Lavamancer just really helps in our Maverick matchup, not unless they get a Mother of Runes online in turn one then just burn their face and hope for the best
So I built this deck after getting the idea from this thread. Only got to test one game last night against U/B control. I won 2-1, lost due to resolved Mimic Vat and I sided out Viridian Corrupter :D.
The 9 burn package I'm running has been plenty to keep pheonix going. 4 snapcasters make the burn even better. I reccomend the full set of volley.
i sideboard 3 crush against pod and rdw, which is plenty to deal with pod and shrine. Snag is amazing vs pod as well as anything with Titans. I generally find myself burning people out from 12 or so life, and Titans are rather irrelevant once theyre in burn range.
This is exactly how this deck operates, apply pressure, gain tempo and burn for the win (although i define burn range at around 10 or less life, at this point brimstone volley is an all-star).
A quick question for you tempo players. Has anyone tested with wolf-run with Huntmaster? The lifegain it gives is troublesome.
I mean no offense--I ask you this honestly: what would need to happen to make this deck a good metagame choice? Glass cannon decks have a natural predator in Force of Will, and I think it will be a cold day in hell when Force of Will isn't omnipresent in a general metagame.
Perhaps that day is fast approaching as we are seeing less and less Blue based decks placing in top 8s.
This deck just won an SCG Legacy Open and is not getting that much love. I think we need a new thread with a primer. This is deck is UR Delver not U/r/(x) Snapcaster.
Also, I'm thinking about Shock over Gut Shot. I guess it depends how often I actually need to use its Phyrexian mana... :/ Also, how many critters have 2 toughness.
I'm also considering this move or maybe a split of 2 each.
With mirran crusaders and lord of unreals running around in my meta i think its a good move.
1) My thoughts on Inferno Titan are, yes it is a good card. Definitely, especially in a meta-game full of x/1s. However, in the sense of playing a 22 land tempo deck, I dont think a 6 drop is what you want. Thinking back on the many games played, I don't even hit 6 mana that often. Yeah, brimstone volley is reach or a "finisher" but it is also a 3 mana removal spell. Having a 6 drop in your opening hand is essentially a mulligan. Maybe if you're playing 24-26 lands, it's different, but then you're playing a whole different deck. Squadron Hawk is different, it's a 2 mana 1/1 flyer than Ancestral Recal's you when you play it, allowed you to shuffle with Jace brainstorms and held swords found by SFM perfectly. You can't apply that principle to every card.
2) Yes, haha true. I didn't make a case for what I said in my original post. I will now:
Noxious Revival is not what you want in this deck, in my humble opinion. First off, if it put the card in your hand it would very obviously be insane. But the fact that it puts it on the top of your deck to me, just means it really isnt doing anything. Id rather have a shock, a leak, a ponder anything than that. Sure, sometimes you are able to get a snapcaster or a delver back, but then you have to wait a whole turn, for 2 life to have it. Also, it has an anti-synergy with Snapcaster Mage and Grim Lavamancer. Yes, it will eventually be back in the graveyard, but this is not the deck you want to be durdling around with do nothing cards in. I don't know how to explain my view really, it's just...what happens when there's nothing in your graveyard? Then it's just sitting in your hand, doing nothing. It's the same thing as inferno titan, a 7 card hand with a noxious revival is essentially a 6 card hand. I don't like cards that need other cards to do something. Even snapcaster mage is ambush viper in times of need. Again, just my opinion. But I'd consider Shocks 5-8, extra gut shots, any other spell, hell, even ravings over this.
1) I agree with you running high cc creatures (titans) is more on the "control" route. This deck usually finishes opponents of on 5 lands involving snapcaster + brimstone volley.
2) These are valid points but I think Noxious revival may be as a 1-of in this deck (I've used this card in my previous builds but have removed it as I found myself siding it out every match). Yes, it is "card disadvantage" but it functions as a buyback for burn, ensuring a delver flip or as a virtual creature but at the same time a very lame topdeck :D. It is one of those cards that is awesome when it works and just sucks when it doesn't.
@Lactone - Hows 20 lands working for you? I'm a bit reluctant to go down to 20 lands as this decks needs to have at least 4-5 lands for snapcaster tricks. Or does the ravings really make up for it?
Karaxu: I say mulligan. No creatures means you might be stuck playing control for a few turns - and that's not good... You want to be aggressive (ideally with a first-turn delver, of course), take board control, and keep through burn and counter-magic.
Yeah, I'd probably mulligan too.
@dantcg
Vapor Snag is really great in this deck, pretty much defines Tempo. It's already being run by most of us.
I'd run 2-4 depending on how rampant aggro is in my meta.
As for the land count, 18-20 depends on your deck. Personally when running wastelands or fireblasts i go up to 20 lands else just run 18.
4 Goblin Guide
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Thunderous Wrath
2 Price of Progress
4 Chain Lightning
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
3 Spell Pierce
2 Daze
2 Force of Will
3 Mountain
3 Island
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Arid Mesa
I've got high hopes for this deck come AVR's printing. Here is my latest take on the deck. Sideboard is still subjected to what the metagame will evolve into.
As for the Snapcaster/Grim Lavamancer clash in the deck. They both serve critical roles in the deck and may co-exist due to Grim mostly feeding of dead creatures and fetchlands while the snaps hope to flashback that game ending burn. I basically ensure I have at least one burn target for snapcaster and the rest can be feed to Grim. The Lavamancer just really helps in our Maverick matchup, not unless they get a Mother of Runes online in turn one then just burn their face and hope for the best
4 Sphere of the Suns
4 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Plague Myr
1 Viridian Corrupter
3 Primeval Titan
4 Phyrexian Crusader
4 Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon
1 Phyrexian Swarmlord
3 Go for the Throat
2 Black Sun's Zenith
1 Contagion Engine
2 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Woodland Cemetery
2 Kessig Wolf Run
7 Swamp
7 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Rootbound Crag
2 Thrun, the Last Troll
3 Autumn's Veil
1 Viridian Corrupter
2 Acidic Slime
1 Black Sun's Zenith
2 Doom Blade
1 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 Glissa, the Traitor
So I built this deck after getting the idea from this thread. Only got to test one game last night against U/B control. I won 2-1, lost due to resolved Mimic Vat and I sided out Viridian Corrupter :D.
Critics, comments and suggestion are most welcome
Here is the deck I've been thinking using BUG colors. Completely untested, critics are very much welcome.
2 Moonmist
3 Blunt the Assault
3 Black Sun's Zenith
4 Think Twice
2 Forbidden Alchemy
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
1 Negate
1 Dissipate
2 Jace, Memory Adept
4 Rites of Flourishing
1 Elixir of Immortality
2 Ratchet Bomb
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Drowned Catacombs
4 Woodland Cemetery
4 Evolving Wilds
6 Island
4 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Nephalia Drownyard
3 Ghost Quarter
1 Rachet Bomb
2 Grave Titan
2 Autumn's Veil
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Jace, Memory Adept
1 Negate
This is exactly how this deck operates, apply pressure, gain tempo and burn for the win (although i define burn range at around 10 or less life, at this point brimstone volley is an all-star).
A quick question for you tempo players. Has anyone tested with wolf-run with Huntmaster? The lifegain it gives is troublesome.
Perhaps that day is fast approaching as we are seeing less and less Blue based decks placing in top 8s.
I'm also considering this move or maybe a split of 2 each.
With mirran crusaders and lord of unreals running around in my meta i think its a good move.
1) I agree with you running high cc creatures (titans) is more on the "control" route. This deck usually finishes opponents of on 5 lands involving snapcaster + brimstone volley.
2) These are valid points but I think Noxious revival may be as a 1-of in this deck (I've used this card in my previous builds but have removed it as I found myself siding it out every match). Yes, it is "card disadvantage" but it functions as a buyback for burn, ensuring a delver flip or as a virtual creature but at the same time a very lame topdeck :D. It is one of those cards that is awesome when it works and just sucks when it doesn't.
I agree, turn 3 sweep like slagstorm or even arctrail will definitely hurt you if you do this play.
Yeah Negates are better in the board, and if you are using it to counter Doom Blade and the likes I suggest running Turn Aside
Yeah, I'd probably mulligan too.
@dantcg
Vapor Snag is really great in this deck, pretty much defines Tempo. It's already being run by most of us.