MTG Salvation

Unrestrict Balance... it's not even that strong of a card.. the only reason why they want to keep it restricted is to give Fish//creature based decks more of a chance.

It's considered a creature at the time, and will go to the graveyard upon receiving lethal damage (as a normal creature would).

I agree with eepeguy.. a game loss is a bit much, unless there's evidence to prove it was intentional.

You would have to be at least somewhat passive to allow your opponent to shuffle your hand in with your library. For example, if an opponent uses Surgical Extraction: allow him to view your hand first, then get it back from him as soon as he's finished.

I'm not saying it's more your fault than his, but if you are a bit more aggressive in asking for your hand immediately when the opponent is done looking, perhaps the whole situation might be avoided.

In addition, if you call the judge and tell him you were demanding when you requested your hand back, and instead the opponent shuffled it into your library.. it wouldn't look like much of an accident on his part anymore.

Quote from varal

Most people doesn't play multiplayer competitively and you might drive people away from your group or the game if you were to play vintage monstrosity in most multiplayer games. Are your opponents also bringing decks highly focused non-interactive decks? Is it some kind of tournament?

Well the main group of friends I play with all use very powerful decks (Oath, stax, painter, etc.).. however we haven't really been playing with any P9, due to those cards being in our 1-player vintage decks. All of us use powerful disruptive cards as well (FoW, Thoughtseize, Balance, Pox, Wasteland, Mana Drain, etc.)

By no means do I intend on using a competitive multilayer deck against a more casual audience.. unless I'm on a loosing streak and feel the need for an easy win

Quote from varal

Dredge can be played like a combo deck with Dread Return, Griselbrand, Flayer of the Hatebound, Laboratory Maniac. Leyline of the Void is really good against Yawgmoth's Will and opposing Dredge decks.

Oath of Druids might not be as good as I thought since it can be abused by one of your opponent before your turn.

The storm deck will definitely need to be modified to be overkill since storm 10 isn't enough, you need more storm 30-50 or multiple Tendrils of Agony. For this purpose you need to rely on storm increasing spells like Mind's Desire, Hurkyl's Recall, Timetwister.

I think you should specify, what are the rules of the games. Are you using vintage banned list? Does the first player draw a cards? Is there lenient mulligan rules or do you follow tournament rules? Can every players affect every players?

Survival of the Fittest seems pretty slow, maybe as fast as Dredge but without the uncounterable Bazaar of Baghdad and just as affected by graveyard hate.

1st player draws cards... they're casual-ish games, but we still play with either legacy or vintage rules (ex. a deck can play with either the vintage restrictions or the legacy bans).. in other words, you can't play with 1 Sol Ring and 4 Brainstorm, because that's abusing either legacy or vintage limitations.

I think it's safe to say a vintage-legal deck is what I'm looking for, because they're likely the most powerful.

Quote from Texeven

Don't mean to be mean but I highlighted the statements which are simply not true.
1. Dealing 4 damage and having a 4/3 creature is not the same thing.
2. It does not hit for 4 damage either way: your opponent could block, remove it or simply win the game next turn
3. The third one is the real problem here: The card does not always do what you want because it leaves the choice for your opponent, who, given that he is not a total idiot, will take the least dangerous one. 20 life? 4 damage; win next turn, got removal or blocker? useless 4/3

Don't get me wrong: I like me some VD in Modern but as soon as there is going to be another good burn spell (Like Bump in the Night) printed, he is going out. The only reason to run him in Modern is that there are no other/better choices, so dont get it confused with a Legacy Burn, where you have access to unimaginable power cards like Price of Progress or Sulfuric Vortex.

I definitely agree with your 3 points. But I don't necessarily agree with invalidating the devil in the legacy format.

I've played in local legacy tourneys with him, and against most decks he's either done 4 dmg or took out an opposing creature to make way for my GG.. If I get him opening hand, that's 4 dmg.. very efficient. He's a terrible topdeck, though.. and I realize in some cases it is a dead card (if they have a blocker, removal, or if they win next turn).

I think there are more efficient cards than the devil in legacy.. but I don't think it's completely useless.

Personally, I'd rather play Grim Lavamancer, Flame Rift, etc.. but I would play the devil over Marauders (which some people seemingly still play)

Quote from varal

I'm pretty sure discard as disruption isn't that good because it only affects one player. Drain life and burn are way too slow, you'd better play storm since it's easier than to get the hundred of mana needed to kill everyone.

One possibility is to play a combo control deck that kills with Time Vault and Voltaic Key/Tezzeret the Seeker but I wouldn't want to be the one casting counterspell against a table of Storm, Dredge and MUD.

I'll see if I can get my friends to test this in the next months. It's probably not that bad to play since decks are so fast but you risk to not even play a turn.

Interesting.

I play vintage a lot, but those decks are designed to win 1v1 against other vintage decks... I didn't really think of migrating it over to a multiplayer-type deck..

I'm thinking the storm one would be the best to transfer over (Dredge is good - but will 10-30 3/3s be enough? Fog and gg). Not to mention with multiple players, there are multiple ways of getting their own creatures to die, making dredge risky for multiplayer. Not to mention 4+x the graveyard hate.

This is my current vintage TPS deck:



Obviously some spells will be much less powerful in FFA multiplayer.. I'll have to find a replacement for Duress.

T1 or T2 Necropotence is broken in 1v1, but in FFA it could backfire terribly.. Not too sure about it.

Like you mentioned, I might want to include the Time Vault combo.

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A Survival of the Fittest would be quite interesting to play, haha...

The prices of these fetchlands are rising vigorously.. Polluted Delta sells for $80-90 and is out of stock in many places (including SCG).

I own a lot of these fetchlands, and if they were to reprint them, I'd end up losing a lot of money (I have several playsets of each fetchland).

I was reading on another thread that Wizards doesn't want to print fetchlands with shocklands still legal in standard.. (also baseless speculation)

If they are looking to reprint these, I want to sell them (so - you know - I don't lose hundreds and hundreds of dollars).

So I suppose my question is - what is the likeliness that Wizards will reprint the Onslaught and/or Zendikar fetchlands within the next year?

I'm talking about a deck built to be played with 4-6 players in free for all matches.

I'm assuming it's some kind of combo deck that's hard to counter..

I just don't know what though.. with multiple players there are multiple counters, lots of permanent and land destruction..

"you win the game" effects would be the most efficient so you don't have to kill 1 player at a time... but most of them are quite difficult to achieve.

Maybe a Show and Tell/Hive Mind based deck to Pact everyone to death T2 or T3?

What's everyone thoughts on the best possible FFA multiplayer deck?

Hello all... what is your take on Ancient Tombs? Are they really that good? They're not an artifact, and the 2 damage per use can backfire hard.

I've not been running any and the only use I can see for them is if you happen to get an opening hand with equipment or SFM - and even then, Springleaf Drum and Mox Opal, combined with your regular land is usually enough.

We're having a legacy event in a couple of weeks where I live.. I'm looking to brush up on my affinity deck that hasn't been edited in ~6 months. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Quote from IotaNull

The only changes I can see needing to be made are ones which make Ritual Combo more viable, and even then it's not urgent.

Agreed.

But how would that be done?

IMO there are four cards that should be unrestricted in Vintage.

1) Balance - I can't see it being played often (oath and 5c stax.. that's it pretty much).. it's not overly powerful. I think the reason they keep it restricted is so creature aggro decks have more of a chance (fish, etc.)

2) Regrowth - I just think it's time this should be unrestricted... yes there are combos you can use with it, but there cards like Snapcaster Mage that in most cases make this card obsolete.

3) Yawgmoth's Bargain - Most archetypes don't even use this any more. Even some TPS decks don't use them.. they cost way too much and what would be the point in running more than 1?

4) Ponder - We have access to Preordain, which some vintage players prefer over ponder... Yes ponder digs deeper, but preordain is very similar in power. I agree with keeping Brainstorm restricted.. but Ponder can be taken off the list IMO.

In extreme cases I think torture is morally correct.

Imagine a terrorist who planted a bomb somewhere that would kill one million people and only he knows how to disarm it. He somehow proves that this is a fact and there's no denying it.

If torturing this guy had even a 10% chance of getting him to disarm the bomb, isn't it worth it? Why choose not to save a million people over one person who resorts to terrorism.

Logically speaking, it's all about total happiness.. why risk the lives of one million innocent people over one criminal?

In fact, it's not even about the fact that he's "evil". If his wife was in the room with him and she was innocent, but torturing her might lead to him disarming the bomb, I think it most certainly would be worth it.

I doubt it... the card may be good, but due to its colors, I don't think it'll see much (if any) play in vintage.

Maybe in BUG aggro or fish decks.. or it could be a one-of in a BU control deck with a splash of green. And combo wouldn't have much need for it...

And even then, there are other removal options that only cost 1 these decks could be using..

It might be a SB option, though... It would be interesting to see it used while a Chalice of the Void at 2 is in play.

Quote from Void

Exactly this.

The list I provided has 2 lands in it total. Casting one Land Grant significantly improves the chances of Goblin Charbelcher doing lethal damage to an oppenent when first activated. More so becasue the land left in the deck is a Mountain which would cause Goblin Charbelcher to do double damage.

That and by the time you get to your Goblin Charbelcther you also have a storm count built up for Tendrils of Agony or Mind's Desire. The deck has many ways of winning.

I'll have to try this out.. Thanks for sharing!

I'll be sure to post some results after I build & playtest it IRL

Quote from urweak

What?

LOL exactly what I was thinking.