Fae playing bitterblossom against this deck usually means they have blockers. They aren't too likely to have much else because we get down early threats so they just have to chump a lot and don't have many resources to send at Jace.
don't get me wrong, I really like crusher, but since you're looking to pitch lands to assasult, isn't it somewhat bad here?
--welt
Nope. Countryside crusher tutors up your ad nauseum kinda... and then you play ad nauseum and get a ton of lands. Countryside crusher will also still be huge if you miss nauseum and instead hit something like seismic assault.
in fact, I'd possibly drop the seismic assaults to 3.
Pakito, in your current build the only spells MD that run white also run green and blue. Because of that, I believe it would be safe for you to drop a brushland for the green white filter, or the white blue filter. I wouldn't drop too many brushlands though because you want a green source first turn pretty much always.
You could do the same for Adarkar Wastes too actually. Too many filter lands is a bad idea too though.
I think I'm going to run Pakito's manabase but with 3 gates, no wastes, and another citadel (until I get a BoP... I only have the hierarchs right now)
I just got most of my cards in the mail today (missing a little on the manabase) so if the roads are plowed by tomorrow I might have a tournament report for you guys.
Okay, I had no idea what the metagame was like in the twin cities, but I heard it's mostly Fae and 5CC. Pretty excited about that.
I don't exactly have a current list... I haven't played the deck since before conflux (my laptop which I was playing on MTGO with crapped out, and the comp i got here won't even run MTGO)
So i'm ordering the cards, and my potential list is
But I admittedly haven't tested much since pre conflux so I am not sure.
Some changes I am considering...
I'm not 100% on the PtEs. I'm considering dropping to 2 Cliques (although, other options are dropping 1x of either rafiq, war monk, or the infiltrator)
I may add another birds. I'm considering adding 1x hurricane. I'm also considering adding a warhammer. In topdeck mode I'd usually rather hit hurricane over hammer when I was playing pre con.
If i drop one of the 2 infiltrators it will be for another Birds of Paradise. If I dropped the other, it would probably be for a hurricane (or bant charm)
I've tried both Broken Ambitions, and Negate. I prefer Negate, and have never considered cancel.
I expect Fae to slow down quite a bit though so I'd rather wrath than hurricane, cloudthresher, or stoic angel. I like Hurricane better in todeck mode than I like loxodon warhammer also (and I don't like warhammer as a sideboard card because I'd try to side it in too often)
I may run 1 MD Stoic angel because it is a house against RDW (3/4 is such a good stat against them)
the biggest problem with this is, there are only 7 lands you can tap for color on their own without hurting yourself.
The more I think about it, the more I like Kitchen Finks. They help fight your painlands, and they force RDW to remove them from the game, or work backwards. Their biggest downfall is that there are so many RFG spells in the current standard.
Pakito how has your manabase been working out? Do you get white without a manadork by turn 3 most of the time?
When I look at this deck, I think can it run without birds or hierarchs? The reason I think this is, the best play people can do to us is kill our turn 1 manadork. It is inevitable that many games will play like that.
For that reason, I'm keeping some Infiltrators in the deck (although i haven't determined the number) and I am not cutting any mimics.
It's not too hard to run 3 treetops and 1 citadel. I did that for a little while (before I got some of the rare lands) and it worked out well enough for me. The more manadorks you are running though, the more you want to have a green source first turn.
I'm playing GWU Mimicrock, and (at least on MTGO) every time I play a birds or hierarch, if my opponent has a fanatic they will pop it.
They don't want to see turn 2 Rhox war monk. While you aren't playing it, they may still expect it. I guess I knew Sylvan Bounty had that, but I'm still not a fan of the card.
Is the lifechange by magister sphinx even considered to be gain or loss? The way it is worded, it may not be
Also, I'm naming any deck I enter in a tournament "Double Trouble Takedown" just so I can sit down against an opponent and excitedly exclaim, "You sure you want to mess with the DOUBLE TROUBLE TAKEDOWN?!"
yes yes.
As for the deck idea, birds are dead lategame, noble hierarch are pretty much dead too (although exalted makes them possibly better)
Both also get shot by mogg fanatics immediately, so you won't be ramping against anything like RDW or Vengeant decks.
You also have a ton of high costed spells with only 20 lands. Sylvan Bounty costs way too much for lifegain (use Kitchen Finks)
your manabase doesn't make much sense. If you're running reflecting pools you should be running vivid lands too. I'm bad with manabases so I'll leave suggestions alone, but you're gonna want something like 24 lands. You should definitely change the arcane sanctum too a vivid land also.
as far as comparing this to Doran... We run about 10 3 drops (4 rhox war monk, 3 cliques, 2 jace, 1 hammer) depending on the build. We also have 4 shorecrasher mimics.
I don't know the math, but we only need 1 of these 14 cards along with a mana creature to make a very aggressive 2nd turn play. On top of that we run 3 to 4 rafiqs, some builds still run an elspeth or 2. Some builds MD stoic angel.
Doran rock's most aggressive play was a turn 2 doran. The could follow up with turn 3 garruk or turn 3 chameleon colossus, but they only had 1 possible huge turn 2 play. We have many big turn 3s and also many big turn 4s.
I don't like going over 6 manadorks though, but admittedly, I have not tested it. It sucks topdecking one late game, but in theory this deck shouldn't be going to late game.
I'm thinking I'll try out the teeg idea so my sideboard for next week will look like
3x Remove Soul
4x Burrenton forge tender
3x Guttural Response
1x Loxodon Warhammer
At least that's how i've seen it
Nope. Countryside crusher tutors up your ad nauseum kinda... and then you play ad nauseum and get a ton of lands. Countryside crusher will also still be huge if you miss nauseum and instead hit something like seismic assault.
in fact, I'd possibly drop the seismic assaults to 3.
You could do the same for Adarkar Wastes too actually. Too many filter lands is a bad idea too though.
I think I'm going to run Pakito's manabase but with 3 gates, no wastes, and another citadel (until I get a BoP... I only have the hierarchs right now)
I just got most of my cards in the mail today (missing a little on the manabase) so if the roads are plowed by tomorrow I might have a tournament report for you guys.
Okay, I had no idea what the metagame was like in the twin cities, but I heard it's mostly Fae and 5CC. Pretty excited about that.
the CiPT lands make your 2 drops that much more playable actually.
So i'm ordering the cards, and my potential list is
1x birds of paradise
4x Shorecrasher Mimic
2x Jhessian infiltrator
4x Rhox War monk
4x Rafiq of the Many
3x Vendilion Clique
3x Bant charm
3x Negate
2x path to exile
3x Jace Beleren
But I admittedly haven't tested much since pre conflux so I am not sure.
Some changes I am considering...
I'm not 100% on the PtEs. I'm considering dropping to 2 Cliques (although, other options are dropping 1x of either rafiq, war monk, or the infiltrator)
I may add another birds. I'm considering adding 1x hurricane. I'm also considering adding a warhammer. In topdeck mode I'd usually rather hit hurricane over hammer when I was playing pre con.
If i drop one of the 2 infiltrators it will be for another Birds of Paradise. If I dropped the other, it would probably be for a hurricane (or bant charm)
I've tried both Broken Ambitions, and Negate. I prefer Negate, and have never considered cancel.
as for a sideboard, I'd guess something like this
3x mark of the asylum
3x guttural response
3x Wrath of god
3x celestial purge
but I'd also consider some of these additions
3x kitchen finks (for 5CC)
2x loxodon warhammer
3x Stoic Angel (it's either this or wrath)
3x sower of temptation (for elves, and the mirror)
2x hurricane
3-4x the new elf that hurts fae... Can't remember it's name
I expect Fae to slow down quite a bit though so I'd rather wrath than hurricane, cloudthresher, or stoic angel. I like Hurricane better in todeck mode than I like loxodon warhammer also (and I don't like warhammer as a sideboard card because I'd try to side it in too often)
I may run 1 MD Stoic angel because it is a house against RDW (3/4 is such a good stat against them)
And for manabase..... here's my guess
4x Brushland
2x Adarkar Wastes
3x flooded grove
2x mystic gate
3x treetop village
1x seaside citadel
1x reflecting pool
1x plains
1x island
1x forest
the biggest problem with this is, there are only 7 lands you can tap for color on their own without hurting yourself.
The more I think about it, the more I like Kitchen Finks. They help fight your painlands, and they force RDW to remove them from the game, or work backwards. Their biggest downfall is that there are so many RFG spells in the current standard.
When I look at this deck, I think can it run without birds or hierarchs? The reason I think this is, the best play people can do to us is kill our turn 1 manadork. It is inevitable that many games will play like that.
For that reason, I'm keeping some Infiltrators in the deck (although i haven't determined the number) and I am not cutting any mimics.
They don't want to see turn 2 Rhox war monk. While you aren't playing it, they may still expect it. I guess I knew Sylvan Bounty had that, but I'm still not a fan of the card.
Also, I'm naming any deck I enter in a tournament "Double Trouble Takedown" just so I can sit down against an opponent and excitedly exclaim, "You sure you want to mess with the DOUBLE TROUBLE TAKEDOWN?!"
yes yes.
As for the deck idea, birds are dead lategame, noble hierarch are pretty much dead too (although exalted makes them possibly better)
Both also get shot by mogg fanatics immediately, so you won't be ramping against anything like RDW or Vengeant decks.
You also have a ton of high costed spells with only 20 lands. Sylvan Bounty costs way too much for lifegain (use Kitchen Finks)
your manabase doesn't make much sense. If you're running reflecting pools you should be running vivid lands too. I'm bad with manabases so I'll leave suggestions alone, but you're gonna want something like 24 lands. You should definitely change the arcane sanctum too a vivid land also.
I don't know the math, but we only need 1 of these 14 cards along with a mana creature to make a very aggressive 2nd turn play. On top of that we run 3 to 4 rafiqs, some builds still run an elspeth or 2. Some builds MD stoic angel.
Doran rock's most aggressive play was a turn 2 doran. The could follow up with turn 3 garruk or turn 3 chameleon colossus, but they only had 1 possible huge turn 2 play. We have many big turn 3s and also many big turn 4s.
I don't like going over 6 manadorks though, but admittedly, I have not tested it. It sucks topdecking one late game, but in theory this deck shouldn't be going to late game.
depending on the lands, this is simple. Bant charm the sculler with CC, then tap him out and return his oblivion ring, you win.
I'm finally getting around to building this deck in actual cards. I'm looking forward to the summer PTQ season