If you try to ban combo by removing card selection and tutors people will focus on one card commander combos like food chain and curiosity and similar. There are enough these you will need to ban a lot of dumb cards or generals.
If you then ban those combos people will play generals that tutor. Then you can those.
Then people will play generals that lock the board down and combine that with critical mass of stax pieces.
I don't think there is a solution to players trying to play the most efficient, consistent way. And I don't think there is anything you can do to prevent people from complaining that xyz is degenerate.
I think the format can be improved but we need to take very slow and incremental steps. I do think that banning a few of the more egregious combo cards might do more for the higher powered but noncedh metas than people might think because it makes a statement. That's a lot of what the banlist is commander does is set a kind of philosophical foundation for the format.
But there is very little chance you're going to tighten a bolt with a hammer.
I never said you will eliminate combos. Just that you will rein them in to a degree by robbing them of some of their efficiency.
Wait, I thought they just fixed it, so it’s NOT on all storm copies...
As you cast an instant or sorcery spell, you may reveal this card from your hand and pay its splice cost. If you do, add this card’s effects to that spell.
When you cast this spell, copy it for each spell cast before it this turn.
Looks like the former's wording with the "As" directive modifies the way the spell is being placed on the stack. While Storm uses the "When" directive which is, of course and as always, the signification of a triggered ability condition (in this case, casting the spell in question). The former involves decisions being made to the spell itself which modify the spell being copied by the latter effect.
If you want to lessen the dominance of combo, I'm quite the fan of the WotC approach - ban the cheap and plentiful cantrips that are the glue that holds together any xU deck - Brainstorm, Ponder, Preordain, and their ilk. You can even add on to this with the same take they use on Vintage where they hit other egregious offenders (Treasure Cruise, Gush and at one point, Fact or Fiction). When you take away the best tools to dig for pieces, you force these decks to improvise with inferior parts which then reduces their efficiency as a machine up to and including their legitimacy as a deck.
You might not think so when you look at these cards in a vacuum, but their iMPACT on your deck's consistency cannot be understated. And, then when you add in the removal of cheap unrestricted tutours and fast mana (defined as anything that generates more mana than it's cmc), you've finally officially reduced the incredible staying power that combo decks currently enjoy in the format.
So I've read all the opposing responses to my comment. My mind hasn't changed. I don't dis-recognize your opinions, they deserve to exist as much as my own.
I don't agree with them. You're entitled to bash me, flame my matter-of-fact stance, and make excuses for the format, but it does not, will not, nor can it think to change the stark realities of this format. You can play "casual" (what even does that mean?) but that does not entail others playing the same. Oh, you're going to ostracize others for having a different belief? Really? So we're now going to create social pariahisms because one person plays a game a different way than you believe a game should be played? Based on using the same legal set of cards you have access to?
You know what? I don't like countermagic. I think it is boring, trite, but it is a necessary evil to the game. They're not banned though, so it's within the rules. Just like I play MLD tribal, if I want to have between four and six 'Geddons in my deck, and they are not banned, then that is just as valid too. You want to ramp to twenty and windmill bombs, I want to stifle your growth and keep you on three to five. Checks and balances, give and take.
You don't like this, that's an issue to take up with the RC and their idiotic banlist. That list is what shapes the format into what it is right now. You don't get to socially shame others into playing the way you want to. No, screw you if you think that's okay. Full stop. That is practically bullying with social pressure, and you should feel terrible for even attempting to guilt or shame any other player that way, whether friend or random.
1) lower the starting life total to 30, 25, or even 20. This allows proactive decks to reign in combo decks, makes non-combo a more viable strategy, and reduces the power of stupid BS like necropotence. Maybe griselbrand could even come off the banlist, who knows.
2) ban the fast mana. Less important, but still. It creates so many nongames. Kill with fire please. Also it could be (slightly) more problematic with a lower life total, since aggro can have pretty insane starts off a ring or crypt.
Stop making me agree with you! What is this, the Twilight Zone? Once again, Dirk and I are on the same page, what sweet ninth level of hell is this?
Keep the same customized BBCode so I can more easily maintain a decklist on two sites. Being able to copy and paste from one to the other would save me a lot on headache medication.
Sheldon: creates multiplayer format with 40 life, fast mana, under costed tutours with expectancy that nobody does anything aside from playing creatures and pass turn.
Players: creates efficient game plan to - gasp - complete the game objective. which is to win the game, in an efficient manner such that they don't lose to the other guy you didn't eliminate.
Why the rush to build and buy? We can take our time and do things right. No sense taking an incomplete project outta the wood shed just to say we played it on day one, because frankly what would that do for us? Nothing.
Besides, I think when you see the initial incarnation I'm currently spinning my wheels on, you'll kick yourself that you missed the approach.
But it's reusable removal. That's its saving grace. The biggest advantage is there are a lot more creatures with lifelink and other "lifegain cards which actually do something" these days, so that 4 life feels less relevant when you're gaining 5 life or more each turn. (And of course, answering a threat is always better than keeping life since a proper threat will quickly deplete 4 life anyway.)
Counter-point: How "reusable" is a single target removal when it demands you to holdup four mana to threaten to use it? Now, how reusable is it given the cost when it isn't even universal (it doesn't hit 20% of the colour pie) removal?
It's pretty easy to start down the slippery slope to tutor town so I applaud you for thinking on that.
Yeah, don't be like me that crams every tutour under the sun into your deck. Speaking from experience, while it's super cool the first few games to know you're playing 20% tutours in your deck and have created a super consistent gameplan, it is a novelty that wears thin soon unless you're in the cEDH pool or play such a demanding commander that you need that level of consistency.
When you get to the point of "Hmm, I wonder just how much this Imperial Seal would improve my deck..." you'll know you've gone too far. Don't be that guy that shows up with the $450 judge promo crappier version of Vampiric Tutor to the pick up game with nothing on the line. It's uhh...it's a pretty bad look.
Hey everyone, I'm compiling a bunch of "best of" staples lists, and thought I would turn to the experts. So post your favorite and best cards of the following:
Ramp & mana fixing
Removal
Tutors
Card draw
Graveyard hate
Recursion
So, we're just glossing over Sol Ring and Mana Crypt? If so, then put me down for Thawing Glaciers.
I never said you will eliminate combos. Just that you will rein them in to a degree by robbing them of some of their efficiency.
As you cast an instant or sorcery spell, you may reveal this card from your hand and pay its splice cost. If you do, add this card’s effects to that spell.
When you cast this spell, copy it for each spell cast before it this turn.
Looks like the former's wording with the "As" directive modifies the way the spell is being placed on the stack. While Storm uses the "When" directive which is, of course and as always, the signification of a triggered ability condition (in this case, casting the spell in question). The former involves decisions being made to the spell itself which modify the spell being copied by the latter effect.
Pretty cool, it's like tacking a Think Twice onto every instant or sorcery you cast.
You might not think so when you look at these cards in a vacuum, but their iMPACT on your deck's consistency cannot be understated. And, then when you add in the removal of cheap unrestricted tutours and fast mana (defined as anything that generates more mana than it's cmc), you've finally officially reduced the incredible staying power that combo decks currently enjoy in the format.
She's an interesting brew tbh. Very fair. And not nearly as locked into certain card choices as the OG.
Oh Ink-Eyes. Time has not treated thou kindly. I still love you though. <3
I don't agree with them. You're entitled to bash me, flame my matter-of-fact stance, and make excuses for the format, but it does not, will not, nor can it think to change the stark realities of this format. You can play "casual" (what even does that mean?) but that does not entail others playing the same. Oh, you're going to ostracize others for having a different belief? Really? So we're now going to create social pariahisms because one person plays a game a different way than you believe a game should be played? Based on using the same legal set of cards you have access to?
You know what? I don't like countermagic. I think it is boring, trite, but it is a necessary evil to the game. They're not banned though, so it's within the rules. Just like I play MLD tribal, if I want to have between four and six 'Geddons in my deck, and they are not banned, then that is just as valid too. You want to ramp to twenty and windmill bombs, I want to stifle your growth and keep you on three to five. Checks and balances, give and take.
You don't like this, that's an issue to take up with the RC and their idiotic banlist. That list is what shapes the format into what it is right now. You don't get to socially shame others into playing the way you want to. No, screw you if you think that's okay. Full stop. That is practically bullying with social pressure, and you should feel terrible for even attempting to guilt or shame any other player that way, whether friend or random.
Stop making me agree with you! What is this, the Twilight Zone? Once again, Dirk and I are on the same page, what sweet ninth level of hell is this?
Definitely this.
Players: creates efficient game plan to - gasp - complete the game objective. which is to win the game, in an efficient manner such that they don't lose to the other guy you didn't eliminate.
Sheldon:
Ohmygod. I don't do G anymore, but if I did, I'd have to use this just because of that right there.
If you follow, then you know what the reference entails.
I always liked this card. Never played it outside Rosheen Hydras, but I always liked it.
Besides, I think when you see the initial incarnation I'm currently spinning my wheels on, you'll kick yourself that you missed the approach.
Counter-point: How "reusable" is a single target removal when it demands you to holdup four mana to threaten to use it? Now, how reusable is it given the cost when it isn't even universal (it doesn't hit 20% of the colour pie) removal?
Yeah, don't be like me that crams every tutour under the sun into your deck. Speaking from experience, while it's super cool the first few games to know you're playing 20% tutours in your deck and have created a super consistent gameplan, it is a novelty that wears thin soon unless you're in the cEDH pool or play such a demanding commander that you need that level of consistency.
When you get to the point of "Hmm, I wonder just how much this Imperial Seal would improve my deck..." you'll know you've gone too far. Don't be that guy that shows up with the $450 judge promo crappier version of Vampiric Tutor to the pick up game with nothing on the line. It's uhh...it's a pretty bad look.
RIP me then I guess.
So, we're just glossing over Sol Ring and Mana Crypt? If so, then put me down for Thawing Glaciers.
Single or mass? Swords to Plowshares or Fire Covenant I guess.
Demonic Tutor...................
Scroll Rack w/ fetchlands.
Ravenous Trap and Leyline of the Void.
Disturbed Burial & Phyrexian Reclamation.