I have been running both Pithing Needle and Kagemaro, First to Suffer for a while in my MBC deck. So far so good with the 2 of them. I have found that I have been looking for a Kagemaro in alot of my matches. He is a house IMO. He is a very versitile creature, which I think is good when you are playing creatures in a control deck. He can reset the board, or swing and beatdown your opponent.
We have alot of WW and Black Hand running around our store so Kagemaro is obviously very stong in those matchups.
The only problem I could see with him is his size when he first comes out. I have usually had a Phyrexian Arena out which usually means that Kagemaro will come out as a 3/3 at the least so on your next turn he is a 5/5 which can clear most everything of the board. The few times that I haven't had the Arena out I usually have to wait a few more turns to play him so that he will be a sufficient threat the minute he hits the board.
What is everybodies thought about running Black Mail in MBC along with Distress . I run Distress and Wrench Mind MD and I was thinking about taking out Wrench Mind for Black Mail and see how it works. I have never been a fan of Black Mail and didn't really every play it when it was in Onslaught. Times have changed and it is the only real discard for 1 mana. You still get to see your opponents hand which is good, but they can show you stuff that really isn't all that important when you play it early.
Also what about Quicksand or Stalking Stones . Which is the better option in T2 at this point and time. I still like Stalking Stones over the Quicksand right know. Stones can kill the same size creature as the Quicksand can, and the Stone stays around where as the Quicksand is in the graveyard. The Stones can help get the last few points of damage through also. I have been able to clear the board with Kagemaro and then activate the Stone and then proceed to finish of my opponent with the Stone. They both are colorless and can work against pro black creatures. All that said I think the Stones are a better option in T2, is anybody using Quicksand over Stone and if so why.
I have noticed that I don't have any mass removal. But I'm not sure about Kagemaro, cause I like my own creatures too :(.
Though Morti should definately be able to avoid him. Also I kinda like 3 being my Arena number, and I don't wanna spend another 3 bucks on one (I am a broke person right now). In all my playtesting I get at least one in the first 3 turns, which is enough to get another soon.
You only run 3 Hypnotic Specter and 2 Mortivore . That isn't really that many creatures. You should be running mores creatures like, Kagemaro, First to Suffer . He is a house, and he helps you in 2 fronts. He is another creature which you need, and he acts as removal when you need to reset the board. Lossing a couple of your creatures is a good trade of if your opponent is lossing more then you, which most likely will be the case.
Exile into Darkness would only really work against weenie decks. I don't think it would be a good choice to bring in against MUC.
At FNM this week I'm going to try to add 2 Exile's to my SB, and still keep the Night of Soul's Betrayal also. If it doesn't work I can always just take out the Exiles. Nothing lost and nothing gained if they don't work out.
I agree that T2 is faster, but if you were to use Hideous Laughter or Kagemaro, First to Suffer to clear the board and then you had Exile into Darkness in hand then you would be able to keep most weenies of the board since the weenie player is most likely in topdeck mode. It would be reusable removal. Also you wouldn't have to fear that it might get destroyed like Night of Soul's Betrayal might.
I don't know if it will work, and your points make alot of sense. But I have seen alot of cards come out of block and see play in T2 when you would never think that they should see the light of day in T2
I was saying the same thing to people about Exile into Darkness . Then I watched in suprise at it affectivness. Exile and Kagemaro, First to Suffer are being used in block decks as a way to deal with WW and Black Hand. Not Hideous Laughter ,or NoSB witch players have access to. Yes 5 mana does seems like alot, but with the other removal like Sickening Shoal and Horobi's Whisper you can keep the weenies to a minimum and then once you play Exile their hand is surely much smaller then yours and then they know that you always have removal at your disposal.
The only reason I brought it up was because that it is seeing some play in block and all those players have access to Hideous Laughter and NoSB but they are opting for Exile in the SB, they must see something in the card for it to be seeing play, you know what I mean. Also block is a good precurser to what will be seeing play soon in T2 constructed and if the Exile can deal with weenies in block and then weenies start to be more popular in constructed T2 then the Exile will also see play, wouldn't it?
I'm going to try it out and if it shows promise I might add it to my SB for FNM. I have a feeling that I will be seeing alot of WW, and Black Hand so it won't be wasting a spot.
Adding Yukora the Prisoner would be a good option or if you are facing alot of Aggro decks Kagemaro, First to Suffer might also be a option. He helps with Troll Acsetic and has the capability of clearing the board in most cases.
On another note, I was at the store that I play at this afternoon and I was watching some block decks play. It was a Gifts deck against WW. The Gifts deck was siding in Exile into Darkness and it was working very well at dealing with the WW deck. The WW deck would come out of the gate and deal damage early then the Gifts deck gained control in the midgame with Exile and Kagemaro. I was wondering if it might be a option to add Exile into the SB. It would be very usefull against WW, Black Hand, and MGA all the decks play alot of creatures with casting cost 3 or less. Is Night of Soul's Betrayal a better option? It is a Enchantment and can be destroyed. Where as Exile is a sorcery and it usually would come back to your hand each upkeep since MBC runs Phyrexian Arena .
Dark Confidant wouldn't be a good idea in a control deck with high casting cost spells. I would rather have a Phyrexian Arena in a control build. The Arena is harder to get rid of then a 2/1 creature with a similuar ability.
Where he might be good is in MBA where all the spells are small enough to where it wouldn't hurt you all that much.
Genju of the Fens isn't that bad, granted it takes up alot of mana if you want to make it big, but just like a Consume Spirit it doens't have to be huge to be affective. I don't play any and probably won't because like Mike said their are much better cards that can be run in MBC over the Genju
With Ravnica being a mulitcolored set with Guilds I would think that alot of the powercards will be multicolored. Which leaves monocolored decks holding the short hairs.
I'm sure that will get a few good cards, but if your hoping for quantity I don't think that Ravnica will offer much.
I actually cut Kagemaro from my sideboard, as he wasn't really all that effective. Most time, I'd rather just have a Hideous Laughter, and not have to cast a creature that takes 3BB to cast, and use his ability. Sure, he can be -4/-4 or even -5/-5, but it's doubtful. If you're playing Kagemaro, it's to deal with an aggro/weenie deck. You're going to be playing your spells every turn to deal with their threats, and you're not gonna have 4/5 cards in your hand to make him effective. Most times, he's barely a Laughter, at more cost.
I liked the Stalking Stones in my deck because they dealth with Pro Black creatures. Auriok Champions can be a pain in the ass, and Stalking Stones essentially shuts them down. Same for a SoLS equipped creature. Also, if you happen to play a control deck like Tooth or wipe the board, a 3/3 body is pretty clutch.
Kagemaro, First to Suffer has been working wonders for me. I MD 3 and they have always been affective. Against aggro decks I usually let them play some threats, kill 1 or 2 so they have to play a few more threats hopfully they will over extend and then you drop Kagemaro to whip the board and take control of the game by dropping down either Yukora, the Prisoner or Kokusho, the Evening Star . That process usually happens around the 5th or 6th turn making Kagemaro very affective. Remember that most aggro decks run equipment, and WW has Glorious Anthem which pump the creature out of Hideous laughter , or Night of Soul's Betrayal range. Which makes Kagemaro even more affective in the midgame.
With a Phyrexian Arena in play your hand shouldn't be empty when it is time to play Kagemaro. Even if he comes out as a 2/2 next turn he is a 4/4 with the help of the Arena. I say that a 4/4 for 5 mana that can take out pretty much the whole board for the small cost of 1 mana is a very good deal IMO. Even if he came out as a 2/2 you could still block with him and take out a 4/4.
Quicksand will work very well in MBC for sure. It will be able to get rid of most problack creatures, and it interacts well with Sickening Shoal , Kagemaro and Hideous Laughter. A Hideous Laughter and Quicksand will get rid a 4/4 very easily. You could pitch a smaller spell to Sickening Shoal if you had a Quicksand in play.
Kiku's Shadow has 2 draw backs the biggest is that it is sorcery speed. It is always better to be able to use targeted creature removal at end of your opponents turn, or at the beginning of your opponents attack phase. Kiku's Shadow other drawback although a bit smaller is that it can only kill creatures with the same power/toughness. Meloku, the Clouded Mirror ,and Theiving Magpie come to mind as 2 creatures that can exploit both of the weaknesses of Kiku's Shadow.
Horobi's Whisper , Rend Flesh , Sickening Shoal , and even Terror and Dark Banishing are all better alternatives to play over Kiku's Shadow. All are instants that can get rid of a Thieving Magpie, Meluko, hell they pretty much can get rid of every creature in the enviroment. Kokusho, the Evening Star and Yukora, the Prisoner as being the only problems, and Sickening Shoal can get them. Or your own copies of Kokusho and Yukora can act as removal if needed.
Cruel Edict and Blackmail look to be the 2 best NEW additions to MBC from 9th. I'm going to test out Hypnotic Specter , but really though I think I would rather have Distress and Persecute over Hyppie. It would be very cool if Hyppie was viable in some sort of MBC build, but like some have said on this thread that without acceleration like Dark Ritual that its still strong but not as powerfull as it used to be.
Regardless... In the comprehensive guide, something I noticed was the guy was using infernal kirin. Is it possibly a way to go if we devote ourselves more heavily to spirit/arcane? Most of us run Yukora or Kokusho, as well as hideous laughter, horobi's whisper, even rend flesh...
I'm not sure how effective the kirin would be, I'd have to test it. But it seems like an interesting idea.
It sounds like it might work. This is what I run for Arcane/Spirits.
That is a wide variety of casting costs so maybe the Kirin would be a good addition. It is a 3/3 flyer for 4 also. If it was added what to take out though. Maybe I could take out Yukora? Maybe I will try taking out Persecute and see if the Kirin would work. The only problem I can see is that it has the potential of being rather narrow. It can't hurt to try and see how it works though.
Good point made about Sickening Shoal and Death Cloud . The only draw back is usually when somebody Death Clouds they have to discard their hand also. Thats what usually happened to me at least. So that would mean post Cloud you would have to top deck the Shoal and some other cards to discard to it. But I could see that having a free spell to use after a Cloud would be benificial.
We have alot of WW and Black Hand running around our store so Kagemaro is obviously very stong in those matchups.
The only problem I could see with him is his size when he first comes out. I have usually had a Phyrexian Arena out which usually means that Kagemaro will come out as a 3/3 at the least so on your next turn he is a 5/5 which can clear most everything of the board. The few times that I haven't had the Arena out I usually have to wait a few more turns to play him so that he will be a sufficient threat the minute he hits the board.
What is everybodies thought about running Black Mail in MBC along with Distress . I run Distress and Wrench Mind MD and I was thinking about taking out Wrench Mind for Black Mail and see how it works. I have never been a fan of Black Mail and didn't really every play it when it was in Onslaught. Times have changed and it is the only real discard for 1 mana. You still get to see your opponents hand which is good, but they can show you stuff that really isn't all that important when you play it early.
Also what about Quicksand or Stalking Stones . Which is the better option in T2 at this point and time. I still like Stalking Stones over the Quicksand right know. Stones can kill the same size creature as the Quicksand can, and the Stone stays around where as the Quicksand is in the graveyard. The Stones can help get the last few points of damage through also. I have been able to clear the board with Kagemaro and then activate the Stone and then proceed to finish of my opponent with the Stone. They both are colorless and can work against pro black creatures. All that said I think the Stones are a better option in T2, is anybody using Quicksand over Stone and if so why.
You only run 3 Hypnotic Specter and 2 Mortivore . That isn't really that many creatures. You should be running mores creatures like, Kagemaro, First to Suffer . He is a house, and he helps you in 2 fronts. He is another creature which you need, and he acts as removal when you need to reset the board. Lossing a couple of your creatures is a good trade of if your opponent is lossing more then you, which most likely will be the case.
At FNM this week I'm going to try to add 2 Exile's to my SB, and still keep the Night of Soul's Betrayal also. If it doesn't work I can always just take out the Exiles. Nothing lost and nothing gained if they don't work out.
I don't know if it will work, and your points make alot of sense. But I have seen alot of cards come out of block and see play in T2 when you would never think that they should see the light of day in T2
The only reason I brought it up was because that it is seeing some play in block and all those players have access to Hideous Laughter and NoSB but they are opting for Exile in the SB, they must see something in the card for it to be seeing play, you know what I mean. Also block is a good precurser to what will be seeing play soon in T2 constructed and if the Exile can deal with weenies in block and then weenies start to be more popular in constructed T2 then the Exile will also see play, wouldn't it?
On another note, I was at the store that I play at this afternoon and I was watching some block decks play. It was a Gifts deck against WW. The Gifts deck was siding in Exile into Darkness and it was working very well at dealing with the WW deck. The WW deck would come out of the gate and deal damage early then the Gifts deck gained control in the midgame with Exile and Kagemaro. I was wondering if it might be a option to add Exile into the SB. It would be very usefull against WW, Black Hand, and MGA all the decks play alot of creatures with casting cost 3 or less. Is Night of Soul's Betrayal a better option? It is a Enchantment and can be destroyed. Where as Exile is a sorcery and it usually would come back to your hand each upkeep since MBC runs Phyrexian Arena .
Where he might be good is in MBA where all the spells are small enough to where it wouldn't hurt you all that much.
With Ravnica being a mulitcolored set with Guilds I would think that alot of the powercards will be multicolored. Which leaves monocolored decks holding the short hairs.
I'm sure that
Kagemaro, First to Suffer has been working wonders for me. I MD 3 and they have always been affective. Against aggro decks I usually let them play some threats, kill 1 or 2 so they have to play a few more threats hopfully they will over extend and then you drop Kagemaro to whip the board and take control of the game by dropping down either Yukora, the Prisoner or Kokusho, the Evening Star . That process usually happens around the 5th or 6th turn making Kagemaro very affective. Remember that most aggro decks run equipment, and WW has Glorious Anthem which pump the creature out of Hideous laughter , or Night of Soul's Betrayal range. Which makes Kagemaro even more affective in the midgame.
With a Phyrexian Arena in play your hand shouldn't be empty when it is time to play Kagemaro. Even if he comes out as a 2/2 next turn he is a 4/4 with the help of the Arena. I say that a 4/4 for 5 mana that can take out pretty much the whole board for the small cost of 1 mana is a very good deal IMO. Even if he came out as a 2/2 you could still block with him and take out a 4/4.
Quicksand will work very well in MBC for sure. It will be able to get rid of most problack creatures, and it interacts well with Sickening Shoal , Kagemaro and Hideous Laughter. A Hideous Laughter and Quicksand will get rid a 4/4 very easily. You could pitch a smaller spell to Sickening Shoal if you had a Quicksand in play.
Horobi's Whisper , Rend Flesh , Sickening Shoal , and even Terror and Dark Banishing are all better alternatives to play over Kiku's Shadow. All are instants that can get rid of a Thieving Magpie, Meluko, hell they pretty much can get rid of every creature in the enviroment. Kokusho, the Evening Star and Yukora, the Prisoner as being the only problems, and Sickening Shoal can get them. Or your own copies of Kokusho and Yukora can act as removal if needed.
It sounds like it might work. This is what I run for Arcane/Spirits.
- :symb::symb::xmana: Sickening Shoal
- :symb::symb::1mana: Horobi's Whisper
- :symb::symb::2mana: Hideous Laughter
- :symb::3mana: Cranial Extraction
- :symb::symb::2mana:Yukora, the Prisoner
- :symb::symb::3mana: Kagemaro, First to Suffer
- :symb::symb::4mana: Kokusho, the Evening star
That is a wide variety of casting costs so maybe the Kirin would be a good addition. It is a 3/3 flyer for 4 also. If it was added what to take out though. Maybe I could take out Yukora? Maybe I will try taking out Persecute and see if the Kirin would work. The only problem I can see is that it has the potential of being rather narrow. It can't hurt to try and see how it works though.