A guess it is possible in 1.5 you do loss moxen though. The main problem with this deck is it is just to fragile. All your opponent has to do is counter 1 spell and you lose. You also lose to Stax becasue of sphere of restiance and other lock pieces. The deck is just to fragile to win against any sort of viable deck.
I chose not to get premium on SCG. I play only vintage and the decline of vintage coverage and SCG P9 reporting makes it a waste of money. If I really want to read it I just wait 3 months then read it for free.
If you check the thread I linked above it has all of the T8 decks. It also talks about in that thread why mana drain was only a 2 of and also why null rod is in the deck. I would also like to emphasis again that taking burn off mana drain is not why mana drain is not played in this deck. It is not played becasue of the diffuculty of casting turn 1.
I am looking for a way to abuse Goblin Game. I have been thinking of cabal ritual, dark ritual, desprete ritual and seething song as a way to play it fast. Any Ideas on how to abuse it, also how many objects should I hid. Thanks for the help.
There are only 2 reasons not to play many drain, first and most common and can be hard to find UU. This is why mana leak is played, it is a whole lot easier to go land, mox letting you mana leak, then land, mox sapphire letting you mana drain. This is the one reason mana leak is played in type 1 at all, off color moxen. The second reason you may not play mana drain is becasue of mana burn, however this rarely happens, so you do not need to worry about it.
If you check out the thread were I found the list here:http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/index.php?topic=25291.0 you will also find some disscusion by other people and the creator of the deck, on card choices
Having only 2 Drains is not that bad in oath. You have very few things to drain into and off color moxen make mana leak easier to cast. When I played oath I ran 0 drains, partly because of budget reasons and partly because I rarely found them useful. This not true with all oath builds, with some you have to run mana drain but I don't think it is neede here. Sometimes mana drain is even worse then counterspell. Take this example I am playing Sligh and my opponent is playing oath. He has Akroma and Spirit in play, and is at 2 life. I am at 2 and it is my turn. I topdeck a 2 mana burn spell and cast it targeting him, he mana drains it. Next turn draws and plays a land, and then burns to death on mana drain mana. This does not happen much but I don't think mana leak is that bad a choice.
Null rod is also not that bad. It can help out a lot late game and it is not like you have to cast it. You are only running 2 so even if it is bad for you, you don't draw it much.
I currently have no power nine however I hope to win some playing in Vintage Tournies. One thing I would like to point out is that you don't have to own the power nine to play vintage. I current big money cards I have are 4 force of will and 4 tundra and this allows me to build compatative decks in 10 proxy vintage. Sure it helps to own power, but it is not nesscary
Muddle the mixture is actually seeing some play to my surpirse. Here is a list the placed 1st at the Dutch Vintage Champs:
Daniel Paardekooper
2 Underground Sea
2 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
1 Tropical Island
1 Island
1 Snow-coverd Island
4 Forbidden Orchard
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Sol Ring
1 Black Lotus
2 Null Rod
4 Oath of Druids
1 Gea’s Blessing
1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Razia, Boros Archangel
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Yawgmoth’s Will
4 Brainstorm
2 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
2 Muddle the Mixture
4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Mana Leak
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
SB:
4 Duress
2 Shadow of Doubt
2 Coffin Purge
3 Energy Flux
1 Null Rod
1 Blazing Archon
1 Woodripper
It looks like it used muddle to search out null rod and other stuff. This seems like it actually could be a viable stragety for oath.
Grim Long is better. You can maindeck broken stuff like yawg win, giving you better odds that you will draw it. You also usually lose less life with grim long which can be helpful vs. aggro decks.
I have been working on a T1 black fish deck. The addition of dark confident and the remakeing of the deck has made a sui/fish black deck half decent. This is however the first time I have seen it do well in a tournament.
Before fusidile came out there was a lodestone myr, time vault combo deck. I was wonder why you chose to run the fusidile over lodestone myr. Sure you have to cast it and wait a turn but with workshops it seems like it would be better then fusidile. Otherwise the list seems soild.
I actually did not use the damage partpyrite at all in this tournament. There where however situations in which it would have been very nice to have it. I either did not have the right mana or I did have the mana but not the pyrite. There was one situation that I had the pyrite but would have much rather of had an AEther spellbomb, I think I won that game anyway though. With that said it was a much easier just to show the pyrite to your opponent then having to go through your deck play all the creatures spells etc. At this point I would probably keep it however It should be tested more.
One thing I think that does need improvment, is the draw engine, TFK really has not been doing enough for me. I often found myself running out of steam with no cards in hand when my opponent had 5 or 6. I think that is partly becasue of the quality of draw but also becasue of the small amount of it for a deck like this. It relies on a 2 card combo with 1 of the cards being restricted. I have been considering things like telling time and AK Intuition however none of them seemed to fit. One thing I should add is a library so I think I would probably take out an island for it. Thoughts?
4 Auriok Salvagers 4 Trinket Mage 4 Meddling Mage 1 Darksteel Collossus 1 Tinker 1 Mystical Tutor 4 Brainstorm 3 Thirst for Knowledge 1 Ancestral Recall 4 Mana Drain 4 Force of Will 1 Decree of Justice 1 Time Walk 1 Mox Pearl 1 Mox Sapphire 1 Sol Ring 1 Mana Crypt 1 Black Lotus 1 Lion’s Eye Daimond 1 Pyrite Spellbomb 1 Pithing Needle 1 Engineered Explosives 1 Phrexyain Furnace 2 AEther Spellbomb 4 Flooded Strand 4 Tundra 1 Volcanic Island 6 Island 1 Plains
Sideboard 3 Serenity 3 STP 2 Seal of Cleansing 2 Vedalken Shackles 1 Old Man of the Sea 1 Decree of Justice 1 Exalted Angel 1 Chalice of the Void 1 Tormod’s Crypt
I managed to win 5 games lose 2 games and draw 1 game, Giving me 26th place. Here is a short report of what happened. I only wrote down how I won so the rest is from memory.
Round 1: Bye
Round 2 vs. Control Slaver
Game 1: I combo out with salvagers.
Game 2: Tinker into DSC first turn. He Rack and Ruins the DSC and a spellbomb. I point out that the DSC does not die, He says that he can not target the DSC with Rack and Ruin because it is indestructible and tries to take it back and play an energy flux. I call a judge over who says that DSC is targetable with Rack and Ruin and I win.
Round 3 vs. Dragon
Game 1: I play a mage naming animate dead. He plays necromancy on dragon and wins.
Game 2: I board in 3 STP and 1 crypt. I go infinite with salvagers and win.
Game 3: I tinker into DSC and play a mage naming animate dead. He animates a titan which I STP. I then beat with DSC for the win.
Round 4 vs. GG Gifts
Game 1: I combo out with Salvagers.
Game 2: I tinker into DSC and play a mage naming welder
Round 5 vs. U/W null rod fish
Game 1: I combo with salvagers and LED
Game 2: He brings in hate, and plays null rod meddling mage and rootwater thief and wins
Game 3: He plays null rod and Pithing Needle, at which point I decide to go aggro and win with old man of the sea and trinket mage.
At this point I am 5-0 and need to win 1 more game.
Round 6 vs. Dragon
Game 1: He goes infinite with dragon
Game 2: He animates a titan and beats me to death
Round 7 vs. Control Slaver
Game 1: He wins with a big yawg win and trike beats
Game 2: We trade counterspells untill we are finally down to him with a trike and me with 2 meddling mages. I am able to beat him to death with the mages.
Game 3: We are low on time so I keep a very aggressive hand with first turn maeddling mage second turn tinker with no countermagic. I play the mage nameing welder and then play tinker which resolves. He then bounces my DSC. The game went to time but if we had played it out he would have won.
Round 8 vs Control Slaver
Game 1: I am within one turn of comboing with salvagers when he mindslavers me and decks me with infinite mana.
Game 2: I lose to Pent beats etc.
I end up 26th and I am pretty satsfied about how I did. Part of the reason a lost the games I lost was because I was tired and started doing stupid things like not realizing I had countermagic and leaving my hand face up on the table.
I feel like the deck could still use some work. I found my sideboard was useless a fair bit of the time so that needs to be redone. I also don’t think TFK really fits the deck and want to look into other draw options. Anyway help would be appreciated.
I am currently running LED, in the deck. This is a card I have wavered on the most but It is has won me the game twice before so I am keeping it. The discarding your hand sucks but it can speed up your clock by one turn. It also has good syenergy with the spellbombs and brainstorm. I cut energy flux from the sideboard in favor of serenity. Serenity has proven very helpful, sure you have to wait a turn but it blows up everything. For the echoing truth I was thinking about Maindecking a decree of Justice.
If you check out the thread were I found the list here:http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/index.php?topic=25291.0 you will also find some disscusion by other people and the creator of the deck, on card choices
Null rod is also not that bad. It can help out a lot late game and it is not like you have to cast it. You are only running 2 so even if it is bad for you, you don't draw it much.
Daniel Paardekooper
2 Underground Sea
2 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
1 Tropical Island
1 Island
1 Snow-coverd Island
4 Forbidden Orchard
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Sol Ring
1 Black Lotus
2 Null Rod
4 Oath of Druids
1 Gea’s Blessing
1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Razia, Boros Archangel
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Yawgmoth’s Will
4 Brainstorm
2 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
2 Muddle the Mixture
4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Mana Leak
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
SB:
4 Duress
2 Shadow of Doubt
2 Coffin Purge
3 Energy Flux
1 Null Rod
1 Blazing Archon
1 Woodripper
It looks like it used muddle to search out null rod and other stuff. This seems like it actually could be a viable stragety for oath.
One thing I think that does need improvment, is the draw engine, TFK really has not been doing enough for me. I often found myself running out of steam with no cards in hand when my opponent had 5 or 6. I think that is partly becasue of the quality of draw but also becasue of the small amount of it for a deck like this. It relies on a 2 card combo with 1 of the cards being restricted. I have been considering things like telling time and AK Intuition however none of them seemed to fit. One thing I should add is a library so I think I would probably take out an island for it. Thoughts?
4 Auriok Salvagers
4 Trinket Mage
4 Meddling Mage
1 Darksteel Collossus
1 Tinker
1 Mystical Tutor
4 Brainstorm
3 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
1 Decree of Justice
1 Time Walk
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Black Lotus
1 Lion’s Eye Daimond
1 Pyrite Spellbomb
1 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Phrexyain Furnace
2 AEther Spellbomb
4 Flooded Strand
4 Tundra
1 Volcanic Island
6 Island
1 Plains
Sideboard
3 Serenity
3 STP
2 Seal of Cleansing
2 Vedalken Shackles
1 Old Man of the Sea
1 Decree of Justice
1 Exalted Angel
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Tormod’s Crypt
I managed to win 5 games lose 2 games and draw 1 game, Giving me 26th place. Here is a short report of what happened. I only wrote down how I won so the rest is from memory.
Round 1: Bye
Round 2 vs. Control Slaver
Game 1: I combo out with salvagers.
Game 2: Tinker into DSC first turn. He Rack and Ruins the DSC and a spellbomb. I point out that the DSC does not die, He says that he can not target the DSC with Rack and Ruin because it is indestructible and tries to take it back and play an energy flux. I call a judge over who says that DSC is targetable with Rack and Ruin and I win.
Round 3 vs. Dragon
Game 1: I play a mage naming animate dead. He plays necromancy on dragon and wins.
Game 2: I board in 3 STP and 1 crypt. I go infinite with salvagers and win.
Game 3: I tinker into DSC and play a mage naming animate dead. He animates a titan which I STP. I then beat with DSC for the win.
Round 4 vs. GG Gifts
Game 1: I combo out with Salvagers.
Game 2: I tinker into DSC and play a mage naming welder
Round 5 vs. U/W null rod fish
Game 1: I combo with salvagers and LED
Game 2: He brings in hate, and plays null rod meddling mage and rootwater thief and wins
Game 3: He plays null rod and Pithing Needle, at which point I decide to go aggro and win with old man of the sea and trinket mage.
At this point I am 5-0 and need to win 1 more game.
Round 6 vs. Dragon
Game 1: He goes infinite with dragon
Game 2: He animates a titan and beats me to death
Round 7 vs. Control Slaver
Game 1: He wins with a big yawg win and trike beats
Game 2: We trade counterspells untill we are finally down to him with a trike and me with 2 meddling mages. I am able to beat him to death with the mages.
Game 3: We are low on time so I keep a very aggressive hand with first turn maeddling mage second turn tinker with no countermagic. I play the mage nameing welder and then play tinker which resolves. He then bounces my DSC. The game went to time but if we had played it out he would have won.
Round 8 vs Control Slaver
Game 1: I am within one turn of comboing with salvagers when he mindslavers me and decks me with infinite mana.
Game 2: I lose to Pent beats etc.
I end up 26th and I am pretty satsfied about how I did. Part of the reason a lost the games I lost was because I was tired and started doing stupid things like not realizing I had countermagic and leaving my hand face up on the table.
I feel like the deck could still use some work. I found my sideboard was useless a fair bit of the time so that needs to be redone. I also don’t think TFK really fits the deck and want to look into other draw options. Anyway help would be appreciated.