Wow, lots of changes. 4 Gush GAT seems like it will be quite a strong deck, I played 1 Gush GAT for awhile and even. I don't really understand restricting Gifts, ever since FS and Flash becoming good it hasn't been dominating nearly as much. Either way I think these changes are probably good.
You can only return an Ichorid or Nether Shadow if it was already in your graveyard before the beginning of your upkeep. You can respond with Ichorid triggers with Bazaar, allowing you to find black creatures to feed Ichorid.
Trying to find exact percentages of complex situations in Ichorid is going to be difficult if not impossible. The problem with Nether Shadow is that you have to wait until your next upkeep, which makes him near useless. What gets me fast wins playing Ichorid is Nacro, and if that doesn't work out I have more then enough Ichorids that are going to be triggering during my upkeep. Basically my point is Nether Shadow has merit, but I think it is overkill.
I can't decide exactly how many dredgers I want with this deck. Currently I'm running only 12, which might be a bit low. I don't like Shell because it barely even Dredges more then Bazaar, and the deck is already tight.
Yeah I run 4 Cabal Therapy, which I guess would actually make it 12 disruption slots. Therapy is just nuts, its disruption, it protects your combo and its cost is easy for Ichorid to fulfill. Nether Shadow is decent but the main issue I find is needing at least two turns to get it online. Ichorid can already be slow and Nether Shadow even more problems then Ichorid; namely its not as big and requires 3 creatures above it.
Getting Bazaar wasted turn one does slow down your clock significantly. The reason you don't need Petrified Field though is because decks playing Wasteland are usually Fish, who can't race you even without bazaar online.
For dredge effects I am currently running 13. Lists that run 16+ are just wasting slots, all you need is 1 dredge guy to find others. As for disruption I am running 8 slots, currently Leyline and Chalice which I feel are best suited for the current meta.
In this thread, sentimentGX4 made the following comments:
i believe that it is poor people's own fault for being poor. unless they learn to work hard and make their own money, i don't see why society should ever help them out. these low income families have been taking dibs in medicaid and social security for so long. both these programs are expensive and UNAFFORDABLE. most impoverished do not realize this, but our government invests way to much in them. they are pulling down and ruining our economy. money in the hands of upper-middle income families are often used for investment and the nation needs this money to keep our corporations flowing.
Since the conversation that followed veered far off topic, I'm moving all the posts I can to this thread so the discusion can continue on its own.
being in a family that earns $150,000 a year (and not feeling rich at all), i would have to argue against your idea. it's wrong to assume that everyone with $100,000+ incomes has money to throw around.
i believe that it is poor people's own fault for being poor. unless they learn to work hard and make their own money, i don't see why society should ever help them out. these low income families have been taking dibs in medicaid and social security for so long. both these programs are expensive and UNAFFORDABLE. most impoverished do not realize this, but our government invests way to much in them. they are pulling down and ruining our economy. money in the hands of upper-middle income families are often used for investment and the nation needs this money to keep our corporations flowing.
So why is it that you are well off? Is it because you actually worked your way up? or is it because you were born into a wealthy family, which provided you with school, food, and job opportunities to became wealthy? People often don't choose to be poor, they are born into societal conditions which cause them to be poor. There are some exceptions to this where people move drastically upwards or downwards in economic wealth, but it is very rare.
Street Wraith is like washing your car every week to increase your fuel efficiency.
Street Wraith is like washing your car in gasoline and then lighting it, it's that explosive.
If Street Wraith was being run just for deck thinning purposes it would make some sense to cut him. But it does so much more, it feeds Ichorid and Ghoul, speeds up your clock, makes mulligan into Bazaar easier and makes you better vs. Waste on Bazaar. All Street Wraith costs you is 2 life, which barely ever matters in decks like Ichorid where you either win big or go home.
Street Wraith is good because you already have more then enough dredge affects and Ichorid type creatures. What the deck needs is a way to rely less on Bazaar and speed up its clock, Street Wraith serves this purpose like Urza's Bauble in older builds.
Sage and Flame Kin Zealot, take up less slots then Sutured Ghoul and are equally fast. Ghoul is only strong with a huge graveyard and Dragon Breath while Sage is self sufficient. You can chain several Sages and Dread Returns together in one turn to win quickly. I look at Ghoul like a win more, if you can Dread Return Ghoul you have probably already won, while Dread returning Sage wins in a favorable game state and less favorable ones as well.
Petradon and other creatures such as Cephilad Sage have several advantages over Sutured Ghoul. Ghoul requires you to have Dragon Breath and a bunch of other guys in your graveyard while Sage and Petradon are great just by themselves. Currently I am running 3 Cephilad Sage and 1 Flame Kin Zealot as my win conditions.
@joande, I would try to get 4 Street Wraith in there, probably cutting Nether Shadow. Street Wraith decreases your reliance on Bazaar, thins your deck and is a black creature which makes him incredible in Ichorid.
Is buying apple certified refurbished Ipods a good idea? What kind of price difference is their between new ipods and refurbished ones. Thanks for any and all information.
I posed this question on TMD and got my thread locked after 3 hours so I was wondering if anyone else here had an opinion on this. Are blue cards really such a huge part of Vintage that we can't even have a discussion about the power they wield over the format?
Although every color has some use in Vintage, blue is the best one. Blue sees play in the most decks and is played in those decks at the highest quantities. Dual lands with blue in them hold a higher value then all other dual lands. Blue has two of the most powerful affects in Vintage, counters and draw. Counters unable decks running blue to answer virtually any card, while other colors can only target certain card types. Blue draw spells are some of the best in the game enabling a deck to replenish its hand while decks without draw can only draw cards once a turn. Most of these things are obvious, but they are evidence of how blue got to the power level it is at currently.
Is blue too powerful? If so should something be done about blue, or are blue cards the only way to keep Vintage balanced and prevent combo from overrunning the metagame? What is the best way to fix blue and return balance to the color pie?
I think you guys underestimate fish. Fish is good, and just about any colored fish deck can compete. The only reason people see U/W fish put up the most results is because it is played the most. Fish does have the inherent problem of being a metagame deck, so by definition it will never be on top.
Thanks for all the help so far. At this point I don't know if I have the budget for a new a laptop, or a need for a new one. Is it even worth buying older/used laptops or should I just wait until I can afford something new?
I can't decide exactly how many dredgers I want with this deck. Currently I'm running only 12, which might be a bit low. I don't like Shell because it barely even Dredges more then Bazaar, and the deck is already tight.
1337 translates to Leet, so the spelling is totally different.
For dredge effects I am currently running 13. Lists that run 16+ are just wasting slots, all you need is 1 dredge guy to find others. As for disruption I am running 8 slots, currently Leyline and Chalice which I feel are best suited for the current meta.
Since the conversation that followed veered far off topic, I'm moving all the posts I can to this thread so the discusion can continue on its own.
-{mikeyG}
So why is it that you are well off? Is it because you actually worked your way up? or is it because you were born into a wealthy family, which provided you with school, food, and job opportunities to became wealthy? People often don't choose to be poor, they are born into societal conditions which cause them to be poor. There are some exceptions to this where people move drastically upwards or downwards in economic wealth, but it is very rare.
Street Wraith is like washing your car in gasoline and then lighting it, it's that explosive.
If Street Wraith was being run just for deck thinning purposes it would make some sense to cut him. But it does so much more, it feeds Ichorid and Ghoul, speeds up your clock, makes mulligan into Bazaar easier and makes you better vs. Waste on Bazaar. All Street Wraith costs you is 2 life, which barely ever matters in decks like Ichorid where you either win big or go home.
Sage and Flame Kin Zealot, take up less slots then Sutured Ghoul and are equally fast. Ghoul is only strong with a huge graveyard and Dragon Breath while Sage is self sufficient. You can chain several Sages and Dread Returns together in one turn to win quickly. I look at Ghoul like a win more, if you can Dread Return Ghoul you have probably already won, while Dread returning Sage wins in a favorable game state and less favorable ones as well.
@joande, I would try to get 4 Street Wraith in there, probably cutting Nether Shadow. Street Wraith decreases your reliance on Bazaar, thins your deck and is a black creature which makes him incredible in Ichorid.
Although every color has some use in Vintage, blue is the best one. Blue sees play in the most decks and is played in those decks at the highest quantities. Dual lands with blue in them hold a higher value then all other dual lands. Blue has two of the most powerful affects in Vintage, counters and draw. Counters unable decks running blue to answer virtually any card, while other colors can only target certain card types. Blue draw spells are some of the best in the game enabling a deck to replenish its hand while decks without draw can only draw cards once a turn. Most of these things are obvious, but they are evidence of how blue got to the power level it is at currently.
Is blue too powerful? If so should something be done about blue, or are blue cards the only way to keep Vintage balanced and prevent combo from overrunning the metagame? What is the best way to fix blue and return balance to the color pie?