I think the sledge needs a slot in the deck. Whether it's a 2 or 4 is up to you, but I think at least a 2-of because when we get to the late game and maybe start running out of land to drop and things to go get that land. Our Lynx are going to be 0/1s that do nothing and a sledge on one or two of them would help us recover any life we have lost and to help keep the pressure on, even if it is a low powered creature. It will also give us the trample option for our many creatures that don't actually have trample, so then we won't get blocked by chumps all day long.
EDIT: I read through some of that Landfinity deck here in Development and it runs Realm Razer in some versions to either remove all lands from the game permanently or to trigger huge landfall interactions. So, my question is:
Is Realm Razer a creature that we need to consider for the Naya builds out there? Is he something that we may even consider adding into a 4 color build with Ob-Nixilis? For some reason, Realm Razer seems like it's screaming to be broke more than Clarion Ultimatum. Is it possible?
Why does his "return all cards removed from the game this way, into play" ability not trigger?
Im not perfect at the rules, but it would seem like the ability to return cards to play actually does trigger. Its just that there would be no cards to return to play. Then, the remove from play triggers and removes all lands. So is this the more accurate description?
Stack like this:
Cast Realm Razor
first ability triggers --in response to first ability, path to exile realm razor
Path to exile goes on the top of the stack and resolves first --this triggers Realm Razors second ability, which resolves without any lands exiled
First ability resolves, thus all lands removed.
Ok, so I personally like the creature mob option with Rampaging Baloths and Emeria Angel, so I'm going to work on a G/W/r version with Knight of the Reliquary and, believe it or not, Sarkhan Vol to allow for my mobs to swing immediately and at a higher power. I know this is a stretch of a deck, but it's something that I think needs to be explored. I won't be able to play it tomorrow, maybe at a release event that evening. I might be helping out with a wedding, so play testing is going to be difficult for me here the next few days. But at least I'm going to work on a better version (hopefully) of my original deck that I posted here. Basically, I'm looking for a deck that has good defense early game to stop the quick beats out there and then capitalize on their lack of late game and destroy them with mine. At least that's the running idea so far.
I was actually starting to think that a R/U control deck that is creatureless is the strongest way to go if we keep with this theme. But then of course we can just include these cards into strong archtypes that already exist in an attempt to make them better.
Ok, so we have a lot of people with decks and ideas, what I want from people is to actually play their decks and come back with results that help us to figure out what is actually good here and what isn't.
Ok, so there are a lot of these Trap cards (get it out of your system now, Yu-Gi-Oh players) and I got to thinking, is it possible to build a deck around them? I know that Archive Trap is going to see a ton of play, but there are a few others that look like a lot of fun and seem to possibly have some use.
Basically, I'm asking:
Could we build a competitive (FNM at least, PTQ maybe) that is based around a large chunk of the Trap cards?
So, I guess the question, after deciding if this is possible, is how do we win? Do we go the mill route, the creature creation and attack route, or the burn them to death route? Looking at all of these cards, all these are viable options, it's just a matter of which one seems more viable than the others. Personally, the mill option with some burn/LD control seems to be the best option at the moment. In fact, I'm starting to think that R/W/U control deck would be the best option here.
What do you think? Please no flaming or just saying no. Please have some thoughtful responses here (basically, think before typing). I'm just looking to see what you all think of this idea at the moment.
So, basically you are looking at a G/W/R quick beats decks. Honestly, it seems much more fragile than I would like to run since you are relying on one creature to win when you aren't playing a control deck. Yes you have the Knight in there, but I don't think that's enough. If you look at the version that I posted just above your post here, it runs many different creatures that work towards the same goal and allows for you to have multiple threats. Yes, I'm not using some of the cards that you have going in your deck, but I think both are good starters.
I think your deck has too much Soul's Majesty. As much as I like this card in the deck to help keep your hand full, you are trying to kill before you even get to play that card to any advantage. It costs 5 and when you hit 5 land, you are probably trying to kill your opponent with multiple land drops with Harrow and other such cards. I'm not saying that you should take it out, but drop the number to 2. It's one of those cards that's best late game to get your tempo back when you run out of gas.
I personally am still out there on the Cobra as to how useful it really is to this deck. I'm so worried that it will allow you to over extend and get punished for it if you don't actually kill your opponent. I know a deck like this should be fast and brutal, but if your opponent gets to 4 mana and "Wraths", then what are you going to do with no cards in your hand. Even Soul's Majesty doesn't help at that point.
Finally, your land isn't optimized. You have too many ramp sorceries/instants. Drop the Rampant Growth, it's not as good in this deck. Next you need to rework your land base to include at least 3 of the new Sac Lands and 4 Terramorphic Expanse. With these cards, you will be able to play 3-4 lands with just your normal land drop and the Knight of the Reliquary. That is the best and more optimal way to get the crazy landfall interactions we are looking for. As for replacing Rampant Growth, I would add one more land, 23 is just too few and with the 2 slots from the Soul's Majesty, I would add in 4 Lightning Bolts for some creature removal and a way to get that last little bit of damage through. As for your creatures, I would drop the Birds which in my opinion are way to repetitive with what your deck already does and add in Scute Mob or Steppe Lynx so you have another big threat your opponent will have to deal with. This gives you 3 different creatures that are big threats in the deck.
Ok, so I really like where this thread is going so far. It seems at this point that we have a strong contingent of people that really want to see the G/W/B version work really well, and I love it. I'm going to post 2 more decks that we can talk about to see what people think of them:
OK, so I suck at building control decks, so bear with me here. It's 38 cards and no lands right now, but you get the idea, I hope:
Ok, again, I'm not great at control decks but I think this is a start. It's also 42 cards at the moment. It also needs Tome Scour I think.
Just remember, these are all primers to get people talking about some of the other options out there for the Landfall mechanic.
EDIT: One card that I have heard good things about and have seen it do some pretty cool things is Explorer's Scope. I think it deserves a spot in the deck, but I don't know what to take out or how to fit it in at all.
One of the big things that was confirmed for me this weekend in a game was the lifelink goes off before the doubling of your life total, so the Angel might not be a bad option at all. It's sorta like gaining 10 life off of it instead of 5.
Ok, I'm posting this again because it got moved/deleted and I hope we can make this work.
This is a thread to be devoted to trying to break/work to maximize the Landfall mechanic. The only colors that I seem to see people pretty much convinced will be in the deck are Green and White because green has Harrow plus all the other ramp cards and the multi-colored card Knight of the Reliquary.
Some variants want to run Red for some more solid beaters (Plated Geopede) for faster kills. These versions also sometimes forgo the Knight for more ramp in sorcery form and/or burn and/or other creatures.
Some want to stay pure with G/W for cheaper creatures and 2 creatures that put tokens into play (Rampaging Baloths and Emeria Angel) with some cheap creatures as support.
Then there are other decks that want to run Blue for a more controlling deck that can run Windrider Eel for some explosively quick kills in the air. These decks are also going to maybe see Clarion Ultimatum as a combo/ramp card that will be a cheap (relatively speaking) way to get 5 lands into play at one time.
And finally some decks want to run black for Ob Nixilis, the Fallen and some other creature control options to slowly suck the life out of your opponent.
So, just to get a deck out there here's the original deck that I posted in the original thread I made:
Also, if we feel the need to go with another color, I think black is the way to go. We can bring in Pulse and Lord of Extinction, plus maybe Duress. But I think we are over thinking at this point.
@Dark Myth: I understand why you have the landfall-get-bigger guys, but not even an Emeria Angel? With a deck like this, big creatures are great, but if your opponent can block it and you don't have a way to get it's damage through, what are you going to do? I think this deck needs something like Emeria Angel or Rampaging Baloths to get the numbers up there quickly.
Um... I think we need a judge here. I'm pretty sure that when you WW, everything (except enchantments) come into play at the exact same time and don't trigger landfall. But, that's just what I remember about all of this. You may need to rethink this deck, but then again, I could be totally wrong.
The biggest problem, if you call it that, is going to be running out of lands to play, whether from out hand or out of our deck. So I think one of the biggest things we need to look into, is how many lands are we going to have in the deck? For some reason a minimum of 26 seems to be the number that keeps hitting me in the back of the head. Any thoughts on this?
EDIT: I read through some of that Landfinity deck here in Development and it runs Realm Razer in some versions to either remove all lands from the game permanently or to trigger huge landfall interactions. So, my question is:
Is Realm Razer a creature that we need to consider for the Naya builds out there? Is he something that we may even consider adding into a 4 color build with Ob-Nixilis? For some reason, Realm Razer seems like it's screaming to be broke more than Clarion Ultimatum. Is it possible?
Yes.
I was actually starting to think that a R/U control deck that is creatureless is the strongest way to go if we keep with this theme. But then of course we can just include these cards into strong archtypes that already exist in an attempt to make them better.
Basically, I'm asking:
Could we build a competitive (FNM at least, PTQ maybe) that is based around a large chunk of the Trap cards?
For those of you wondering, here's the list:
So, I guess the question, after deciding if this is possible, is how do we win? Do we go the mill route, the creature creation and attack route, or the burn them to death route? Looking at all of these cards, all these are viable options, it's just a matter of which one seems more viable than the others. Personally, the mill option with some burn/LD control seems to be the best option at the moment. In fact, I'm starting to think that R/W/U control deck would be the best option here.
What do you think? Please no flaming or just saying no. Please have some thoughtful responses here (basically, think before typing). I'm just looking to see what you all think of this idea at the moment.
So, basically you are looking at a G/W/R quick beats decks. Honestly, it seems much more fragile than I would like to run since you are relying on one creature to win when you aren't playing a control deck. Yes you have the Knight in there, but I don't think that's enough. If you look at the version that I posted just above your post here, it runs many different creatures that work towards the same goal and allows for you to have multiple threats. Yes, I'm not using some of the cards that you have going in your deck, but I think both are good starters.
I think your deck has too much Soul's Majesty. As much as I like this card in the deck to help keep your hand full, you are trying to kill before you even get to play that card to any advantage. It costs 5 and when you hit 5 land, you are probably trying to kill your opponent with multiple land drops with Harrow and other such cards. I'm not saying that you should take it out, but drop the number to 2. It's one of those cards that's best late game to get your tempo back when you run out of gas.
I personally am still out there on the Cobra as to how useful it really is to this deck. I'm so worried that it will allow you to over extend and get punished for it if you don't actually kill your opponent. I know a deck like this should be fast and brutal, but if your opponent gets to 4 mana and "Wraths", then what are you going to do with no cards in your hand. Even Soul's Majesty doesn't help at that point.
Finally, your land isn't optimized. You have too many ramp sorceries/instants. Drop the Rampant Growth, it's not as good in this deck. Next you need to rework your land base to include at least 3 of the new Sac Lands and 4 Terramorphic Expanse. With these cards, you will be able to play 3-4 lands with just your normal land drop and the Knight of the Reliquary. That is the best and more optimal way to get the crazy landfall interactions we are looking for. As for replacing Rampant Growth, I would add one more land, 23 is just too few and with the 2 slots from the Soul's Majesty, I would add in 4 Lightning Bolts for some creature removal and a way to get that last little bit of damage through. As for your creatures, I would drop the Birds which in my opinion are way to repetitive with what your deck already does and add in Scute Mob or Steppe Lynx so you have another big threat your opponent will have to deal with. This gives you 3 different creatures that are big threats in the deck.
I hope this helps a bit in your deck building.
OK, so I suck at building control decks, so bear with me here. It's 38 cards and no lands right now, but you get the idea, I hope:
3x Windrider Eel
3x Living Tsunami
3x Sphinx of Lost Truths
2x Rampaging Baloths
4x Khalni Heart Expedition
3x Into the Roil
1x Mindbreak Trap
1x Rite of Replication
4x Negate
4x Essence Scatter
4x Spell Pierce
4x Summoner's Bane
4x Vines of Vastwood
4x Steppe Lynx
4x Scute Mob
4x Wild Nacatl
4x Knight of the Reliquary
4x Harrow
3x Khalni Heart Expedition
3x Path to Exile
2x Elemental Appeal
So, lets get talking about some of these other decks now.
Oh, one last deck that I just thought of, G/U/w Uber control/mill:
3x Roil Elemental
4x Wall of Denial
2x Emeria Angel
3x Iona, Shield of Emeria
3x Khalni Heart Expedition
3x Negate
3x Essence Scatter
2x Mindbreak Trap
3x Bant Charm
4x Archive Trap
4x Path to Exile
Just remember, these are all primers to get people talking about some of the other options out there for the Landfall mechanic.
EDIT: One card that I have heard good things about and have seen it do some pretty cool things is Explorer's Scope. I think it deserves a spot in the deck, but I don't know what to take out or how to fit it in at all.
This is a thread to be devoted to trying to break/work to maximize the Landfall mechanic. The only colors that I seem to see people pretty much convinced will be in the deck are Green and White because green has Harrow plus all the other ramp cards and the multi-colored card Knight of the Reliquary.
Some variants want to run Red for some more solid beaters (Plated Geopede) for faster kills. These versions also sometimes forgo the Knight for more ramp in sorcery form and/or burn and/or other creatures.
Some want to stay pure with G/W for cheaper creatures and 2 creatures that put tokens into play (Rampaging Baloths and Emeria Angel) with some cheap creatures as support.
Then there are other decks that want to run Blue for a more controlling deck that can run Windrider Eel for some explosively quick kills in the air. These decks are also going to maybe see Clarion Ultimatum as a combo/ramp card that will be a cheap (relatively speaking) way to get 5 lands into play at one time.
And finally some decks want to run black for Ob Nixilis, the Fallen and some other creature control options to slowly suck the life out of your opponent.
So, just to get a deck out there here's the original deck that I posted in the original thread I made:
4x Rampaging Baloths
4x Lotus Cobra
4x Knight of the Reliquary
4x Scute Mob
3x Oracle of Mul Daya
3x Narrow Escape
2x Eldrazi Monument
1x Eternity Vessel
2x Ajani Goldmane or Garuuk Wildspeaker
2x Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
3x Arid Mesa or Marsh Flats
3x Misty Rainforest or Verdant Catacombs
8x Forest
6x Plains
Ok, so this isn't the best deck on the block, but it's at least something to get us started.
Behemoth Sledge
Also, if we feel the need to go with another color, I think black is the way to go. We can bring in Pulse and Lord of Extinction, plus maybe Duress. But I think we are over thinking at this point.
@Dark Myth: I understand why you have the landfall-get-bigger guys, but not even an Emeria Angel? With a deck like this, big creatures are great, but if your opponent can block it and you don't have a way to get it's damage through, what are you going to do? I think this deck needs something like Emeria Angel or Rampaging Baloths to get the numbers up there quickly.