oof. I had 2 goryo's vengeance and a through the breach I've just been holding onto since I got them at prereleases and were junk rares. I finished the sets a couple months ago, guess I should have waited.
The deck needs more sac outlets than just ravager so it's something people are trying out. And there's a lot of do nothing cards, so an extra land that does something is good too.
I'm glad HS affinity is actually making results. Anyone testing the deck would see it outperforms standard affinity (and I'll tell you there are a lot of salty affinity players that don't want to pick up the deck). I'm worried people are going to think the matt nass version is "best", when it's metagamed to beat a format filled with control decks (GP's)(maindeck leap and animation module). You saw a real weakness when it folded 2-0 to tron. Hard removal is very good (path, terminus, karn). Just destroying isn't good enough. The deck is best against midrange and control, worst against combo and burn. Spirits also gave me a beatdown at a couple pptq's. Expect a falloff of the current lists depending on how hard the meta shifts.
I ran into a ton of bolt decks recently (and humans). I was playing the scg T8 list from a couple months back with nissa, voice. The problem was getting stuck at 4-5 mana and drawing birds and BTE. Or casting something big just to have it reflector maged. I moved into a BBE SLC and already getting better results. Able to win the game off the backs of not craterhoof or primetime.
Evolutionary leap is great against terminus when combined with tokens. And it's a sac outlet. G: draw a creature is pretty damn good. The winning decklist was set up to beat control, and boy was there a lot of it. And don't expect a lot of attention. Most affinity players think regular affinity is better. Probably because the decklist needs tons of tuning. There are huge differences you can go with depending on what type of matchups you're expecting. Here near Seattle there isn't much control, but lots of mid-range, aggro and noninteractive combo. So trying to get to turn 6 with a board isn't a super great idea.
The deck is overloaded at the 2 drop slot. Overseer, ravager, hangarback, ballista (throne and mimic depending). Accelerating to 3 mana isn't as good as getting to 2. Removal is starting to get to insane levels. If you're playing creatures on curve they're just going to die eot. By your own thinking mox has zero synergy with the deck since it does nothing for the explosivness of 1/1 counters. Zyrnac has 4 leagues he uploaded before las vegas, and he was thinking about cutting the mox because it wasn't getting him any mana against removal until turn 3-4, and wasn't getting metalcraft on turn 1 or 2 consistently. I'll keep worker in mind.
I'm not being dismissive but I don't think you understand the difference between HS and normal affinity. HS avoids the need to build a critical mass of artifacts to win quickly. 2 or 3 will do. Normal affinity on 2-3 artifacts would take multiple turns of combat to win. HS can completely avoid combat (ballista) or get in all at once ( really big inkmoth, hangarback tokens). You're pretty much never going to see a 10/10 inkmoth from affinity, but in HS it's an easy task. But just generating counters isn't enough, you need to be able to move them. I've let a game play out 7+ turns without attacking once, and then my opponent is dead after tapping out. That's something affinity can't do. You never know when HS is going to go linear, or non linear. HS has a lot more top decks that can end the game on the spot.
I think the only real problem is hitting metalcraft for mox opal, and 1 drops don't help that. Memnite is a contruct so you can drop it as a 2/2 or 3/3 after mimic. Welding jar + spellskite + shaper's sanctuary for all those grindy match ups (mardu pyro, jeskai). Inkmoth > blinkmoth, it's easy to get to 10 damage with an inkmoth, and it's another enabler for turn 2 win. Karn hasn't been pulling his weight for me. At 4 he's often stuck in my hand because I have so much I can do with mana. Whenever he's drawing me cards I'm usually getting something really bad. I've been playing a lot of FNM and MNM, the deck does very well unless I keep 1 landers. I don't want to spend 700 for the deck on mtgo right now, but I'd like to play it more.
Johann Fink's affinity in 9th place at gp barcelona.
If I understood well that's a Mat Nass' tweaked list. It's impressive! Throne of Geth and Evolutionary Leap are monster cards!
I still prefer Traditional list for my play style though
It is almost identical to a mattn decklist from MTGO. If I was actually trying to grind someone out I'd be playing spellskite, shaper's sanctuary, and more welding jars.
I haven't seen anyone taking green affinity seriously. Looks like an almost identical list to the gp 9th place played on mtgo, and a g/w one too. Affinity has gotten easier and easier to hate out, and the removal is starting to be played main deck with lots of sideboard EE and ratchet bombs. Hardened scales with stirrings plays high quality creatures (hangarback and ballista) that are better against removal and provide better value. People are definitely sleeping on it because there's no play this 58 decklist yet. The 2 lists that placed well at the GP aren't even playing metallic mimic, which is huge once I knew it existed. It's really just the power of easy +1/+1 counters.
You won't see stirrings in any other affinity. Getting close to 4 colored spells about maxes out how many you can play without compromising your opening hands. So it's stirrings OR galvanic blast. And what are you going to take. Affinity is a bunch of *****ty low costing creatures. Master dies to push, PtE, KC. Etched champion isn't going to win the game on the spot. If anything I'd play a list like https://mtgtop8.com/event?e=19544&d=325075&f=MO .
I've played affinity since 2004. The removal is just getting better and better. I'm looking for alternatives because the win % for all the other decks is creeping up. Look at mardu tokens. Mono removal + free tokens, exactly what affinity doesn't want to see.
I'm running a temur sabertooth for acidic slime and eternal witness in a pact toolbox. Might just be a win more button. Unfortunately the deck is a tad too inconsistent for what I'm looking for. Too often I just draw the wrong half of the deck.
I don't think HS Affinity is a joke version, but I think it's deeply different. Every turbo kills involves Hardened scales in the first two turns (less than 50% chance) and without the namesake card I feel it as a clunkier version of traditional affinity (that's my opinion driven by a few matches I played and a few other whatched online so I can be wrong). I think that traditional affinity has more redundancy and while it could be slower can have a higher number of broken starts. All in all I think that HS Affo can be more broken but less often than traditional.
That said, I think it can be quite competitive and even stronger in certain meta.
A question: why do you feel it stronger against stony silence? It shuts up 16 creatures and block all the tricks to grow them. I think both decks perform pretty the same under SS. It's true that you can run more removal for it post side though, and that could be the best upside.
It's stronger because 2/2's and up are better than 1/1's. Metallic mimic still works, which turns on HS. Hangerback still gets you 1/1's. HS is the decks cranial. Play regular affinity without cranial and tell me how well it works.
And on another note I'm glad they're coming out with a ton of hosers in m19. Because no one can complain without the retort "what about stony silence".
Those were the first changes I made when I saw the deck. Just from looking at the list it needs a little something like lupine prototype type creatures.
I just want to play it in a quest for the sacred relic deck. It's been banned so long a lot of weird things can happen.
8 Forest
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2 Stomping Ground
3 Windswept Heath
4 Arbor Elf
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Steel Leaf Champion
3 Burning-Tree Emissary
3 Eternal Witness
1 Duskwatch Recruiter
1 Primeval Titan
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
1 Hornet Queen
4 Garruk Wildspeaker
4 Utopia Sprawl
2 Oath of Nissa
BBE missing sucks, but getting free bodies and blocks is good.
I'm not being dismissive but I don't think you understand the difference between HS and normal affinity. HS avoids the need to build a critical mass of artifacts to win quickly. 2 or 3 will do. Normal affinity on 2-3 artifacts would take multiple turns of combat to win. HS can completely avoid combat (ballista) or get in all at once ( really big inkmoth, hangarback tokens). You're pretty much never going to see a 10/10 inkmoth from affinity, but in HS it's an easy task. But just generating counters isn't enough, you need to be able to move them. I've let a game play out 7+ turns without attacking once, and then my opponent is dead after tapping out. That's something affinity can't do. You never know when HS is going to go linear, or non linear. HS has a lot more top decks that can end the game on the spot.
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Memnite
4 Metallic Mimic
4 Hangarback Walker
4 Steel Overseer
4 Walking Ballista
Spells:
4 Hardened Scales
4 Mox Opal
4 Ancient Stirrings
2 Karn, Scion of Urza
4 Welding Jar
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Inkmoth Nexus
7 Forest
3 Horizon Canopy
3 Nature's Claim
2 Shaper's Sanctuary
2 Etched Champion
2 Spellskite
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Relic of progenitus
2 Surgical extraction
I think the only real problem is hitting metalcraft for mox opal, and 1 drops don't help that. Memnite is a contruct so you can drop it as a 2/2 or 3/3 after mimic. Welding jar + spellskite + shaper's sanctuary for all those grindy match ups (mardu pyro, jeskai). Inkmoth > blinkmoth, it's easy to get to 10 damage with an inkmoth, and it's another enabler for turn 2 win. Karn hasn't been pulling his weight for me. At 4 he's often stuck in my hand because I have so much I can do with mana. Whenever he's drawing me cards I'm usually getting something really bad. I've been playing a lot of FNM and MNM, the deck does very well unless I keep 1 landers. I don't want to spend 700 for the deck on mtgo right now, but I'd like to play it more.
It is almost identical to a mattn decklist from MTGO. If I was actually trying to grind someone out I'd be playing spellskite, shaper's sanctuary, and more welding jars.
You won't see stirrings in any other affinity. Getting close to 4 colored spells about maxes out how many you can play without compromising your opening hands. So it's stirrings OR galvanic blast. And what are you going to take. Affinity is a bunch of *****ty low costing creatures. Master dies to push, PtE, KC. Etched champion isn't going to win the game on the spot. If anything I'd play a list like https://mtgtop8.com/event?e=19544&d=325075&f=MO .
I've played affinity since 2004. The removal is just getting better and better. I'm looking for alternatives because the win % for all the other decks is creeping up. Look at mardu tokens. Mono removal + free tokens, exactly what affinity doesn't want to see.
Johann Fink's affinity in 9th place at gp barcelona.
It's stronger because 2/2's and up are better than 1/1's. Metallic mimic still works, which turns on HS. Hangerback still gets you 1/1's. HS is the decks cranial. Play regular affinity without cranial and tell me how well it works.
And on another note I'm glad they're coming out with a ton of hosers in m19. Because no one can complain without the retort "what about stony silence".
Those were the first changes I made when I saw the deck. Just from looking at the list it needs a little something like lupine prototype type creatures.