The level of confidence that a matchup is insanely bad without any real numbers to back that up is baffling to me.
Because people like me have played the matchup, a lot, and very often get completely blown out. If they have a remotely competent opening hand the game is basically over. The only wins come from drawing exactly perfect hands AND them bricking consistently for several turns and/or they mulligan into oblivion and don't just happen to draw natural Tron anyway. The matchup is awful. I play it out because my Jeskai builds had Geists and Quellers to beat in and my UR versions run main deck Blood Moon, but if I was on Azcanta/Teferi Jeskai, I would sign the slip and walk away if they keep an opening 7.
Have you considered you're bad at the game and that's why you lose? Because if you're losing way more than the numbers suggest that seems like a likely reason.
I messed up a turn 2 kill in a game. My hand was ravager, inkmoth, HS, mox opal, dsc, welding jar x2. There's only two cards to play possibly play, and I chose the wrong one in hardened scales. Ravager on turn 1 gives mana for hs and activating inkmoth with putting 8 counters on ravager for a total of 9 and moving 10 over to the inkmoth on turn 2. You can do almost the exact same thing with a turn 2 ballista to win. Metallic mimic is pretty great, pumping everything in the deck except ravager (unless you name beast). I had a game against eldrazi tron where I got 8 power on the board turn 2 from HS, mimic -> hangarback ballista ballista.
It's too bad people probably think HS is an inferior joke version and aren't testing it. It's just as fast, and faster with turn 2 kills, higher creature quality, better against removal, goes wider and larger. And the biggest thing is it's better against removal, and better against stony silence (and you're more likely to be able to destroy stony because of all the green producing lands). With wotc printing better creatures they're also printing better removal. Affinity isn't getting the creatures but it is getting hit by the removal.
That go wide affinity version is also growing on me. Reminds me of 8 whack. I'm a sucker for these kinds of decks.
I think it isn't as weak to push which is why it did... ok. It's also 12 lands, with 4 moxes and 4 springleaf drum, which is significantly less than most decks. contested warzone means he is just going wide. It's interesting, but with so many 0's can get super wrecked by EE or ratchet bomb.
Ancient stirrings is really good. In your opener you can keep 1 landers that would normally be terrible when you're flooded with 2 drops. Late it lets you dig for what you need. I've taken opal for the extra mana turn 1, and karn late in the game. I've also dug for ravager to live, or kill the opponent. And I've gotten 5 crap cards that get shipped to the bottom, but hardened scales runs higher creature quality which is better against mid range and control, regular affinity plays a lot of garbage. Also hardened scales is much better against stony silence, but much worse against Solemnity. No one wants to actually try out the deck which is too bad, because it's very good. I'm happy to play against removal.deck because the card quality is too high. I played against jund and he 2 for 1'd me until he was out of cards, which is the opposite of what should happen.
I am a crazy guy though, I think springleaf drum is complete garbage and have no idea why people play 4 of it. And back in the day didn't play thoughtcast when it was an auto 4 of because the other blue cards were terrible. Removal is getting more efficient and affinity doesn't really benefit from most sets.
a bolt, push, and Kolaghan's Command would have left him with a memnite and etched champion. There are lots of ways of beating affinity. Just because karn is a good instead of another awful artifact doesn't mean it's OP or something needs to be banned.affinity often lacks results at GP's and scg events. When everyone plays the same decklist it's pretty easy to hate and beat unless you happen to get the nuts turn 3 kill.
I'll put up the list I made when eldrazi first came out and it was pretty much just it vs tron
It's a little different, offering up disruption instead of removal. Colors are lighter so your sideboard needs to match it. Haven't taken it to fnm because I've been playing a hardened scales variant.
Unfortunately I'm winning the games at fnm and not learning much. I've played against Jund, UWg control, Company, GR eldrazi. I beat jund 2-0 on the draw both games, and he brought in some 7-8 sb cards, but the value creatures are just too good for 1 for 1 to be any good, and they don't have a real answer for karn as long as he's out of bolt range. The normal decklist with throne of geth and arcbound worker puts you with no way to hit 2 mana on turn one except for exactly opal DSC welding jar, and you're overloaded on the 2 slot so you really need to get to 2. Walking ballista is removal so you aren't just dead to the board, and it goes around ensnaring bridge. I've only been to 3 weeks of fnm so I need a lot more games. The deck looks soft to burn and super fast beatdown.
Karn is an affinity staple. Might even replace (definitely will fight for the spot with) etched champion. Card advantage, plus an x/x, at colorless, and not an artifact. And he gets played in legacy and standard? If he sticks in any decks other than affinity even challenger decks will barely touch his price (and then when dominaria isn't being printed anymore it's going to be straight up).
I got mine at $45, then I saw the scg stream with the legacy ponza and eldrazi playing him, just bit the bullet because he was just going up.
I ran bob back in 2005, so it's not like no one has thought of it. The problem with not running overseer is that you're playing a bunch of *****ty 1/1's that you can draw with bob, but that probably won't be winning you more games than overseer. Also with spire of industry now there's no reason to risk getting blown out with the glimmervoid + 1 drop that gets killed. You're running an island, even though you only have 2 blue cards md + 2 in the board, but 4 red md with 5 in the board and 4 black with 2 in the board?
A proper sleight deck is only half about having efficient creatures and burn. The other half is what you spend your mana on after you're out of cards. This is where extremely efficient creatures such as figure of destiny come in. Also things like magus of the scroll (though I may like him much more than I should given he's a creature version of an amazing card). Leyline of sanctity isn't an auto loss for this deck, but it makes it a hell of a lot harder (and possible because of figure of destiny). Fallout for faeries, dragon's tooth for the mirror.
Librarian won't add anything to the deck because you already have deck thinning (fetch) and efficient draws (every card in your deck). Plated geopede isn't good either because you don't want to be drawing and playing lands. If you want each card you draw to give you and extra 2 damage pick magus. Magus not only turns all your lands into 2 damage (the same as the geopede) it also turns your burn into 2 damage (plus whatever it does). The only problem is he is a ☺☺☺☺ty creature (as there are many more ways to kill creatures than say, an artifact).
WotC remade the mana curve for damage. There are no more lightning bolts (unless they remake it in a core set) that doesn't have a gimmick to it. One mana for 2 damage (shock), two mana for three damage (incinerate), three mana for four damage (char). This is why something like ball lightning and Isamaru is good, but shock is bad. Even though WotC makes the cards, we don't really want to play them. If you are paying 1 for anything less than a 2/2, you're getting ripped off.
Now is something like spark elemental bad? Well lightning bolt is better than it, but I'd probably use it over a shock. Something like goblin guide is very very efficient, I'd argue he's a 2/2 without a drawback, and is even better than jackal pup or isamaru. Kiln fiend also isn't good because, assuming a cheap spell to give him +3/+0, he's a 4/2 for 3, but he doesn't have trample (or haste) to take advantage of his boost (or say a larger boost of +6/+0 or +9/+0).
Staggershock is good, 4 damage for 3 (that's the rule), but flame slash kind sucks because you give up the point of having a burn card (kill your opponent). Ruinous minotaur could be an interesting choice if you need to put something cheap out to kill some fatties. I also like manabarbs for any matchup you think might be unwinnable (against a slower control deck). Too bad we don't have blistering firecat anymore :/ .
If you're looking for how many lands you should run with 8 fetches just look at some older extended PT's.
And one of the main differences between sleigh and RDW is that RDW plays more like sui-black, while sleigh gets efficient red creatures to fight in the mid/lategame (instead of just say losing).
These are my thoughts about this extended season (and that it's quite boring with a small list of playable decks).
EDIT: Oh and I'll add in the new card Memnite is a possible addition (though he sucks unless he's played in the first couple of turns).
Really? Takes 1 mana to activate Star, 1 U to play Thoughtcast..... ummm yeah thats 3 cards for 1 mana.... pretty damn close. Not to mention it can be done with any color mana. So if you have no Seats in play, you can still draw 3 cards? How is that bad?And what decks are you taking Masters out for? Myr Enforcer should be coming out before Master. Maybe YOU need to play a new deck.
Sorry, but dont come tell me I dont know about the only deck I play in Magic. GGthx.
You don't know about the only deck you play, and you don't know basic math.
Star cantrips, thoughtcast draws two cards. Cards played are counted against cards drawn, because replacing itself doesn't create card advantage, but a statistical advantage by thinning.
Let me break it down barney style, since my last post flew over your head.
3 - 2 = 1.
Now for the same example of Recall.
3 - 1 = 2.
Now, to increase your chances of answering this next question, I'll give it to you as true/false (since elementary math isn't your strength):
Does 2 = 1?
True False
Go ahead and print that up and ask a science/math teacher if you are having problems.
Star will always cost more to play and activate than Recall, so you're wrong about it costing the same. Would you like me to cover why about that too?
I think you have other problems with the only deck you play if you're running enforcer. Because with the removal flying around the format, you're not only going to see a 4/4 for free, but it also won't be chumped or killed, because it's as vulnerable to all the rest of affinity hate.
That a page of posts can go by without correcting your simple addition error is astounding.
I highly suggest you stop the flaming. Warning issued.
LOL. Really? You want to take the most powerful creature in the deck out?!?!?!? Please, don't. As an Affinity Player to another, I beg you don't. Chromatic Star is 5 Stars too. Chromatic Star + Thoughtcast = Ancestral Recall.
You need to learn how to add. Star and thoughtcast are very far away from a recall.
I like this deck, I tried goblins similar to this, but with the green this is much easier to play.
With the dragon kill, you don't need any red, which means you can off color blue for what it brings. "Killing" with blue wins against the lifegain decks etc. which would normally be a loss it looks like.
Mostly Star provides acceleration, fixing, and draw smoothing. A lot of little things that don't mean much on their own but just make the deck run better overall.
Star doesn't accelerate, it does fixes and helps draws (by replacing itself).
why aren't you people putting Ethersworn Canonist in your deck lists? that card is just too good in an affinity deck... same goes for Tezzeret.... 5/5 + counter bonuses Arcbound Ravager... YES PLEASE!!!
Hmm, reminds me of Pierre Canali's tech. But it will depend on the format, if control is heavy, he will be good, if there is an assload of removal, he won't matter.
Overall none of the newest cards will see play. With top being booted things get easier for affinity but I haven't been seeing any major changes (besides post-rot).
Edit: Oops, I keep forgetting the goblin king gives himself some extra boosts, I'll need to think a little to see if the normal decks would run him. He has his advantages over hoverguard.
Alternatively, you can play Springleaf Drum, which produces any color mana.
Getting colored mana is irrelevant. Affinity runs so few colored cards that color fixing will very rarely ever matter (4%).
DRUM ACCELERATES YOU THE TURN IT IS PLAYED AS IT CAN TAP A CREATURE YOU PLAYED THIS TURN FOR MANA TO PLAY MORE STUFF. YOU ARE GROSSLY WRONG IN THE STATEMENT ABOVE.
I'm wrong huh?
To accelerate is to put yourself ahead. Drum costs 1, and the turn it is played it will produce 1. That is not acceleration. I have said this 3 times already. Go look at Sol Ring, All the moxes, black lotus, mana vault. They are accelerant because they produce more than the cost the turn they come into play. Let me quote you again:
DRUM ACCELERATES YOU THE TURN IT IS PLAYED
You are wrong, period. Drum will never produce more mana than it costs the turn it is played, so it is impossible to accelerate you the turn it is played.
As far as I am concerned, up till now, you are the only person who strictly thinks Mox is better than Drum in what it does, regardless of how others demonstrated to you that Drum is effective the moment you play it and is always the correct turn 1 play.
Interesting how I never mentioned mox in the quote.
Let's go over this again
I say: Mox will always accelerate you more than drum (because it will). Period. If mox is ALWAYS faster, and drum fixes much more compared to drum, then it is speed vs. consistency for mox and drum.
The circumstances for Drum to be a better card than Mox in terms of speeding up Affinity is far higher than that of Mox
State to me one situation where Mox will not be faster than Drum. State to me one situation where drum speeds you up (here I'll make it easy, there are none).
This statement is grossly false. I can have a hand like Land, Land, Thopter, 2x Thoughtcast, Star. This is six cards. Is it a land screwed hand? There are many possibilities. You are generalising.
Land screwed in this sentiment was refering to not having the appropriate colored land to play the two colored cards in your hand.
You always seem to avoid the fact that Springleaf Drum can tap a creature played this turn for mana, which is why it was so good. I have given you the scenarios and asked you to test it. I still dont get why you are so stubborn and refuse to test it to see what potential speed without the loss of Card Advantage it can give you.
I've said twice that I've tested it. Why? Because I have.
And apparently drum is good because it fixes mana? Call the professionals, 5 color affinity is coming! Never get color screwed! You don't need artifacts anymore!
Color fixing isn't needed in affinity, because of the tiny amount of colored cards that you play. Color fixing in affinity doesn't matter.
Have you considered you're bad at the game and that's why you lose? Because if you're losing way more than the numbers suggest that seems like a likely reason.
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Memnite
4 Metallic Mimic
4 Hangarback Walker
4 Steel Overseer
4 Walking Ballista
Spells:
4 Hardened Scales
4 Mox Opal
4 Ancient Stirrings
2 Karn, Scion of Urza
4 Welding Jar
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Inkmoth Nexus
10 Forest
3 Nature's Claim
2 Shaper's Sanctuary
2 Etched Champion
2 Spellskite
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Relic of progenitus
2 Surgical extraction
I messed up a turn 2 kill in a game. My hand was ravager, inkmoth, HS, mox opal, dsc, welding jar x2. There's only two cards to play possibly play, and I chose the wrong one in hardened scales. Ravager on turn 1 gives mana for hs and activating inkmoth with putting 8 counters on ravager for a total of 9 and moving 10 over to the inkmoth on turn 2. You can do almost the exact same thing with a turn 2 ballista to win. Metallic mimic is pretty great, pumping everything in the deck except ravager (unless you name beast). I had a game against eldrazi tron where I got 8 power on the board turn 2 from HS, mimic -> hangarback ballista ballista.
It's too bad people probably think HS is an inferior joke version and aren't testing it. It's just as fast, and faster with turn 2 kills, higher creature quality, better against removal, goes wider and larger. And the biggest thing is it's better against removal, and better against stony silence (and you're more likely to be able to destroy stony because of all the green producing lands). With wotc printing better creatures they're also printing better removal. Affinity isn't getting the creatures but it is getting hit by the removal.
That go wide affinity version is also growing on me. Reminds me of 8 whack. I'm a sucker for these kinds of decks.
I am a crazy guy though, I think springleaf drum is complete garbage and have no idea why people play 4 of it. And back in the day didn't play thoughtcast when it was an auto 4 of because the other blue cards were terrible. Removal is getting more efficient and affinity doesn't really benefit from most sets.
I'll put up the list I made when eldrazi first came out and it was pretty much just it vs tron
4 Arcbound Ravager
2 Etched Champion
4 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 Signal Pest
4 Steel Overseer
4 Vault Skirge
Spells:
4 Cranial Plating
4 Mox Opal
3 Springleaf Drum
4 Thoughtseize
2 Welding Jar
4 Blinkmoth Nexus
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Swamp
It's a little different, offering up disruption instead of removal. Colors are lighter so your sideboard needs to match it. Haven't taken it to fnm because I've been playing a hardened scales variant.
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 Hangarback Walker
4 Steel Overseer
4 Walking Ballista
Spells:
4 Hardened Scales
4 Mox Opal
4 Ancient Stirrings
3 Springleaf Drum
2 Karn, Scion of Urza
2 Welding Jar
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Inkmoth Nexus
9 Forest
4 Nature's Claim
2 Shaper's Sanctuary
2 Etched Champion
2 Damping Sphere
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Pithing Needle
1 Choke
Unfortunately I'm winning the games at fnm and not learning much. I've played against Jund, UWg control, Company, GR eldrazi. I beat jund 2-0 on the draw both games, and he brought in some 7-8 sb cards, but the value creatures are just too good for 1 for 1 to be any good, and they don't have a real answer for karn as long as he's out of bolt range. The normal decklist with throne of geth and arcbound worker puts you with no way to hit 2 mana on turn one except for exactly opal DSC welding jar, and you're overloaded on the 2 slot so you really need to get to 2. Walking ballista is removal so you aren't just dead to the board, and it goes around ensnaring bridge. I've only been to 3 weeks of fnm so I need a lot more games. The deck looks soft to burn and super fast beatdown.
I got mine at $45, then I saw the scg stream with the legacy ponza and eldrazi playing him, just bit the bullet because he was just going up.
Librarian won't add anything to the deck because you already have deck thinning (fetch) and efficient draws (every card in your deck). Plated geopede isn't good either because you don't want to be drawing and playing lands. If you want each card you draw to give you and extra 2 damage pick magus. Magus not only turns all your lands into 2 damage (the same as the geopede) it also turns your burn into 2 damage (plus whatever it does). The only problem is he is a ☺☺☺☺ty creature (as there are many more ways to kill creatures than say, an artifact).
WotC remade the mana curve for damage. There are no more lightning bolts (unless they remake it in a core set) that doesn't have a gimmick to it. One mana for 2 damage (shock), two mana for three damage (incinerate), three mana for four damage (char). This is why something like ball lightning and Isamaru is good, but shock is bad. Even though WotC makes the cards, we don't really want to play them. If you are paying 1 for anything less than a 2/2, you're getting ripped off.
Now is something like spark elemental bad? Well lightning bolt is better than it, but I'd probably use it over a shock. Something like goblin guide is very very efficient, I'd argue he's a 2/2 without a drawback, and is even better than jackal pup or isamaru. Kiln fiend also isn't good because, assuming a cheap spell to give him +3/+0, he's a 4/2 for 3, but he doesn't have trample (or haste) to take advantage of his boost (or say a larger boost of +6/+0 or +9/+0).
Staggershock is good, 4 damage for 3 (that's the rule), but flame slash kind sucks because you give up the point of having a burn card (kill your opponent). Ruinous minotaur could be an interesting choice if you need to put something cheap out to kill some fatties. I also like manabarbs for any matchup you think might be unwinnable (against a slower control deck). Too bad we don't have blistering firecat anymore :/ .
If you're looking for how many lands you should run with 8 fetches just look at some older extended PT's.
And one of the main differences between sleigh and RDW is that RDW plays more like sui-black, while sleigh gets efficient red creatures to fight in the mid/lategame (instead of just say losing).
These are my thoughts about this extended season (and that it's quite boring with a small list of playable decks).
EDIT: Oh and I'll add in the new card Memnite is a possible addition (though he sucks unless he's played in the first couple of turns).
You don't know about the only deck you play, and you don't know basic math.
Star cantrips, thoughtcast draws two cards. Cards played are counted against cards drawn, because replacing itself doesn't create card advantage, but a statistical advantage by thinning.
Let me break it down barney style, since my last post flew over your head.
3 - 2 = 1.
Now for the same example of Recall.
3 - 1 = 2.
Now, to increase your chances of answering this next question, I'll give it to you as true/false (since elementary math isn't your strength):
Does 2 = 1?
True False
Go ahead and print that up and ask a science/math teacher if you are having problems.
Star will always cost more to play and activate than Recall, so you're wrong about it costing the same. Would you like me to cover why about that too?
I think you have other problems with the only deck you play if you're running enforcer. Because with the removal flying around the format, you're not only going to see a 4/4 for free, but it also won't be chumped or killed, because it's as vulnerable to all the rest of affinity hate.
That a page of posts can go by without correcting your simple addition error is astounding.
I highly suggest you stop the flaming. Warning issued.
-Shin
Master is often sided out in matchups. I guess you should try playing a different deck after sideboards.
You need to learn how to add. Star and thoughtcast are very far away from a recall.
With the dragon kill, you don't need any red, which means you can off color blue for what it brings. "Killing" with blue wins against the lifegain decks etc. which would normally be a loss it looks like.
Very brilliant deck, I like it.
Star doesn't accelerate, it does fixes and helps draws (by replacing itself).
Hmm, reminds me of Pierre Canali's tech. But it will depend on the format, if control is heavy, he will be good, if there is an assload of removal, he won't matter.
Overall none of the newest cards will see play. With top being booted things get easier for affinity but I haven't been seeing any major changes (besides post-rot).
Edit: Oops, I keep forgetting the goblin king gives himself some extra boosts, I'll need to think a little to see if the normal decks would run him. He has his advantages over hoverguard.
I'm wrong huh?
To accelerate is to put yourself ahead. Drum costs 1, and the turn it is played it will produce 1. That is not acceleration. I have said this 3 times already. Go look at Sol Ring, All the moxes, black lotus, mana vault. They are accelerant because they produce more than the cost the turn they come into play. Let me quote you again:
You are wrong, period. Drum will never produce more mana than it costs the turn it is played, so it is impossible to accelerate you the turn it is played.
Interesting how I never mentioned mox in the quote.
Let's go over this again
I say: Mox will always accelerate you more than drum (because it will). Period. If mox is ALWAYS faster, and drum fixes much more compared to drum, then it is speed vs. consistency for mox and drum.
State to me one situation where Mox will not be faster than Drum. State to me one situation where drum speeds you up (here I'll make it easy, there are none).
Land screwed in this sentiment was refering to not having the appropriate colored land to play the two colored cards in your hand.
I've said twice that I've tested it. Why? Because I have.
And apparently drum is good because it fixes mana? Call the professionals, 5 color affinity is coming! Never get color screwed! You don't need artifacts anymore!
Color fixing isn't needed in affinity, because of the tiny amount of colored cards that you play. Color fixing in affinity doesn't matter.