Still all this attacking on AH? I personally don't see the point. Personally I haven't seen that much from him that make me think he's scum. However, I haven't seen anything to really make me think he's definately town either. The fact that the case against him is presented by Passdog doesn't help though.
I dislike vote proxying. Too much potential for trouble I'd say.
Personally I think the best plays today would either be Abso or Treiget. As it appears, I don't think there will be enough support for a Treigit lynch, so I'll vote: Abso.
DYH, just for completeness of your information, I noticed on your list that you have me unvoting in post 72, but I did vote again, I voted for Loran in that post.
Gah. Work has been crushing me this week, and I haven't been able to follow as much as I would like. I need to catch up, and some content will follow.
I would like to say this though, as far as Axel's plan goes, I don't think it's a necessarily bad play, but I doubt it's the right time to do it. Perhaps in a few days, when we have more information and it is more clear on how much it may help - or hurt - us.
T1/1.5: They don't matter that much until the next T1.5 rotation, in which case FA rotates but not CoW, already 1 reason to reprint ancient.
Now, I may be mistaken, so correct me if I'm wrong, but won't the sets containing Ancient and Crucible rotate out of extended at the same time? I thought the next extended rotation would drop Invastion/Odyssey/7th edition. Again, I may have the wrong information. Also, a bit off topic, when does extended rotate?
Edit: Okay, I'm mistaken. Thanks MoxManiac.
Quote from FlyingSpaghettiMonster »
the Coreset: As for the coreset, it is supposed to be a tool for beginners to get into magic. If a n00bie is opening a booster, what do you think will catch his eye and get his mind working more: crucible or ancient? Sure, the crucible is johnnies best friend, but for those who are new to the game, it's intent is confusing. "Why would I want to play lands from my graveyard?" they would ask.
Actually, I feel that if a new player were to open their first pack and see either, the Ancient would be more appealing. However, if they've played a few games, I think that they would see the value of Cruible more, especially if they've played against a Land Destruction deck.
Then why not just buy it from the set it was printed in? THere's absolutely no reason to reprint it.
Because the newest sets are cheaper most of the time.
When I'm able to vote, this is how I will be voting:
Crucible - I was around when Ancient was being made, and I remember being dissappointed at almost every stage of the vote. Besides, I enjoy the Crucible's effect more.
Time Stop vs. Spelljack - I'm still unsure. If I can't make up my mind by the time I can vote, I may just flip a coin or something.
Howling Mine - I'm going with sketch A. I like the new take instead of the normal entrance look. That said however, I wouldn't be all that upset if B wins, as it looks like it could turn out fairly well as well.
Might of Oaks - B. I'm not even sure how anyone can vote A, when it doesn't look like it's much improving a creature, but more like it is a creature.
EDIT: It's notr so much that she is wearing goggles, and Tolarian students/members wore them, but more the style of goggle. Thin slits in the lens to provide vision instead of a complete glass/plastic lens.
You're on the right path here, but looking at all the goggles on cards linked in the thread, they all look just about the same - that is just a complete lens (yes even on the dementia summoners). In my opinion the goggles worn by the woman in the teaser look more like a welder's goggles.
I'm not exactly thrilled by abso's anaylsis. The fact that we have parts of what he claimed confirmed helps a bit.
@cyan: You have said twice now that you doubt there are any vanilla mafia members. Do you have some specific reason that you're willing to share for doubting vanilla mafioso?
here's the rules on the subject, so that you know why it doesn't work.
I see. Well then with Blood Moon out you get a legendary Mountain named Dark Depths with 10 ice counters and no way to remove them. So, not something to try exactly.
A better way to get it producing mana would be to get Riftstone Portal into your graveyard.
it is a step in the right direction though. it makes it tap for mana.
Are you sure it doesn't work? It looks like it does to me. Since Dark Depths comes into play as a mountain and without any abilities, I would assume that it wouldn't get counters, and that this is a viable way to abuse Dark Depths.
Just a note here: the scum already have far more access to pantheon-based knowledge than we do (unless they all come from a specific pantheon). They have 5-6 members, which might translate to 5-6 sources from which to draw claims. If they even need to false claim, that is. I suppose their first tendency might not be to claim Sammael, for instance, but there are plenty of societies whose Gods are...ambiguously good or evil, to say the least.
Vote Azrael.
Yes, I realize that it is very possible that the scum all come from different pantheons, there is no way to know this right now. However, the best thing for us to do is not throw out more pantheons - the scum have enough information from their own roles, and we don't need to add to it. Considering that there is a small chance that they are all from the same pantheon, we don't want to offer up free information to them.
For fans of the Sketch A demon, I pose the question:
What exactly is it doing?
Maybe you're seeing something I'm not, but the pose is really awkward and doesn't look like it could be anything but dancing.
I wouldn't exactly call myself a fan of Sketch A, but it looks to me like it's running. As I said earlier, neither is really great, but B doesn't look like he would attack at all. Had this been a vote for some beefy flying defender that ate a creature each turn, B would have gotten my vote.
Silicon, I challenge you to name a single pantheon containing only scummy Gods. I seriously doubt they're out there, thus scum already know a Pantheon that was included in the game from which they can pull their false claim (if needed). Even if they didn't think they could false claim from their pantheon, all scum need to do is wait for a single lynch (or claim) and they know included pantheons.
Well you must remember, scum have more information than the town. They know what pantheon each of them are from. If they all happen to be from the same one, they would probably be uneasy claiming anything from that one. As far as waiting for a mislynch or a claim, yes each one gives them some information, but your plan would have given them a wealth of information that we don't want them to have right now, which is why you're extremely scummy right now.
Quote from Treigit »
I would absolutly love to have a scum say "I know Zeus is in this game and town" when zeus is their scum buddy, or there scum buddy is planning to claim zeus. Why? Because this gives us 2 for one scum if the SK or vig kills either. BTW, scum hardly need my pantheon prodding to false claim masons.
Not quite - if the one who is Zeus dies, then you get 2 for 1, but if the one who said it dies, you wouldn't necessarily get 2 for 1 - in fact I highly doubt you would, since we can't very well trust what scum say. As far as not needing you prodding to false claim masons or anything like that, no they don't, but you left the door wide open for them to walk in if the town happened to follow it. Why even give them such an opportunity?
Quote from Treigit »
As far as generating discussion (primarily about me), it's something I try in every game. I also end up being the primary band wagon at some point day 1, but haven't ever been lynched. (Though one time I caused my "brother" to be lynced because people wanted to kill me.)
Just because you make a bad play every game, does not excuse the fact that it's a bad play.
abso is a might too close to being lynched for my liking right now. I'd like to hear his thoughts on people.
As far as tregit goes, I'll try and explain how his Pantheon plan is scummy to me, and why I'm keeping an eye on him:
At first, it seems fairly harmless. After all he does just ask what we think might be represented. Then he goes on to suggest we don't name our own unless we expected it coming in. Later, in defense, he says it was to generate discussion (which sort of worked... it generated disscussion of him being scum).
However, looking at how mundane it really is, it actually appears that he may be looking for pantheons to get claims out of. If someone says they expect pantheon X to be in the game, then a scum can go looking in that pantheon for a claim, if they really wanted. Even here, this is still weak. There are several possibilities as to how the scum could use this information, but this information does nothing for the town. Why try and stir up information that has a chance to help the scum, but does nothing at all for the town? Just to stir up discussion? Surely there's something that you can use to stir up discussion that might have a chance to help the town later, and is much further from fishing.
Still right now, it's fairly weak, but that's good enough for a day 1 wagon to start at least.
Next, a few posts later he mentions his plan gives people a chance to drop in non-role related info if they had any. This is particularly scummy. This leaves the door wide open for scums. Had his plan panned out, it could have been disaterous for the town. The scum could have set up a tandem, one saying 'yes, I have info that Y is around' - Y being another one of the scums. Luckily for the town, nobody was biting on Tregit's hook, so the scum couldn't either. The example with Zeus only reinforces this.
This is the main reason as to why he's looking scummy to me.
As to why so many people jumped on the Abso wagon, my best guess is that people realized the town was more or less at a standstill - there were a couple wagons, a couple non-voters, and nobody appeared to want to budge their votes - and something new was needed to shake things up, which it has considerably. The speed was astounding, and yes, probably contains scum, even if Abso is scum, however I think the speed it grew was more because of the town wanting something to happen, and to break the standstill before we got deadlined for the standstill.
Honestly, I can't see how the Demon with the Cactuar pose won. Does 51% of the Magic population have bad taste in art?
It's just like the Shivan Dragon argument I have with old school Magic players. It's perfectly fine to like the Melissa Benson art better for nostalgic reasons, but most ANYONE who truly appreciates art (or anyone who just plain dislikes Crayola art....I'm looking at you, Rebecca Guay) will agree that the Donato art for the Dragon is better.
-MM
You contradict yourself here. You seem to be saying that you 'truly appreciate' art, but at the same time, you show that you don't. To truly appreciate art, you've got to even appreciate what you don't like. So saying that someone is wrong for liking a certain art that you dislike is just showing how much you don't appreciate art.
I dislike vote proxying. Too much potential for trouble I'd say.
Personally I think the best plays today would either be Abso or Treiget. As it appears, I don't think there will be enough support for a Treigit lynch, so I'll
vote: Abso.
I would like to say this though, as far as Axel's plan goes, I don't think it's a necessarily bad play, but I doubt it's the right time to do it. Perhaps in a few days, when we have more information and it is more clear on how much it may help - or hurt - us.
Now, I may be mistaken, so correct me if I'm wrong, but won't the sets containing Ancient and Crucible rotate out of extended at the same time? I thought the next extended rotation would drop Invastion/Odyssey/7th edition. Again, I may have the wrong information. Also, a bit off topic, when does extended rotate?
Edit: Okay, I'm mistaken. Thanks MoxManiac.
Actually, I feel that if a new player were to open their first pack and see either, the Ancient would be more appealing. However, if they've played a few games, I think that they would see the value of Cruible more, especially if they've played against a Land Destruction deck.
Because the newest sets are cheaper most of the time.
When I'm able to vote, this is how I will be voting:
Crucible - I was around when Ancient was being made, and I remember being dissappointed at almost every stage of the vote. Besides, I enjoy the Crucible's effect more.
Time Stop vs. Spelljack - I'm still unsure. If I can't make up my mind by the time I can vote, I may just flip a coin or something.
Howling Mine - I'm going with sketch A. I like the new take instead of the normal entrance look. That said however, I wouldn't be all that upset if B wins, as it looks like it could turn out fairly well as well.
Might of Oaks - B. I'm not even sure how anyone can vote A, when it doesn't look like it's much improving a creature, but more like it is a creature.
You're on the right path here, but looking at all the goggles on cards linked in the thread, they all look just about the same - that is just a complete lens (yes even on the dementia summoners). In my opinion the goggles worn by the woman in the teaser look more like a welder's goggles.
@cyan: You have said twice now that you doubt there are any vanilla mafia members. Do you have some specific reason that you're willing to share for doubting vanilla mafioso?
I see. Well then with Blood Moon out you get a legendary Mountain named Dark Depths with 10 ice counters and no way to remove them. So, not something to try exactly.
A better way to get it producing mana would be to get Riftstone Portal into your graveyard.
Are you sure it doesn't work? It looks like it does to me. Since Dark Depths comes into play as a mountain and without any abilities, I would assume that it wouldn't get counters, and that this is a viable way to abuse Dark Depths.
Yes, I realize that it is very possible that the scum all come from different pantheons, there is no way to know this right now. However, the best thing for us to do is not throw out more pantheons - the scum have enough information from their own roles, and we don't need to add to it. Considering that there is a small chance that they are all from the same pantheon, we don't want to offer up free information to them.
I wouldn't exactly call myself a fan of Sketch A, but it looks to me like it's running. As I said earlier, neither is really great, but B doesn't look like he would attack at all. Had this been a vote for some beefy flying defender that ate a creature each turn, B would have gotten my vote.
Well you must remember, scum have more information than the town. They know what pantheon each of them are from. If they all happen to be from the same one, they would probably be uneasy claiming anything from that one. As far as waiting for a mislynch or a claim, yes each one gives them some information, but your plan would have given them a wealth of information that we don't want them to have right now, which is why you're extremely scummy right now.
Not quite - if the one who is Zeus dies, then you get 2 for 1, but if the one who said it dies, you wouldn't necessarily get 2 for 1 - in fact I highly doubt you would, since we can't very well trust what scum say. As far as not needing you prodding to false claim masons or anything like that, no they don't, but you left the door wide open for them to walk in if the town happened to follow it. Why even give them such an opportunity?
Just because you make a bad play every game, does not excuse the fact that it's a bad play.
abso is a might too close to being lynched for my liking right now. I'd like to hear his thoughts on people.
As far as tregit goes, I'll try and explain how his Pantheon plan is scummy to me, and why I'm keeping an eye on him:
At first, it seems fairly harmless. After all he does just ask what we think might be represented. Then he goes on to suggest we don't name our own unless we expected it coming in. Later, in defense, he says it was to generate discussion (which sort of worked... it generated disscussion of him being scum).
However, looking at how mundane it really is, it actually appears that he may be looking for pantheons to get claims out of. If someone says they expect pantheon X to be in the game, then a scum can go looking in that pantheon for a claim, if they really wanted. Even here, this is still weak. There are several possibilities as to how the scum could use this information, but this information does nothing for the town. Why try and stir up information that has a chance to help the scum, but does nothing at all for the town? Just to stir up discussion? Surely there's something that you can use to stir up discussion that might have a chance to help the town later, and is much further from fishing.
Still right now, it's fairly weak, but that's good enough for a day 1 wagon to start at least.
Next, a few posts later he mentions his plan gives people a chance to drop in non-role related info if they had any. This is particularly scummy. This leaves the door wide open for scums. Had his plan panned out, it could have been disaterous for the town. The scum could have set up a tandem, one saying 'yes, I have info that Y is around' - Y being another one of the scums. Luckily for the town, nobody was biting on Tregit's hook, so the scum couldn't either. The example with Zeus only reinforces this.
This is the main reason as to why he's looking scummy to me.
As to why so many people jumped on the Abso wagon, my best guess is that people realized the town was more or less at a standstill - there were a couple wagons, a couple non-voters, and nobody appeared to want to budge their votes - and something new was needed to shake things up, which it has considerably. The speed was astounding, and yes, probably contains scum, even if Abso is scum, however I think the speed it grew was more because of the town wanting something to happen, and to break the standstill before we got deadlined for the standstill.
I would like to see his answers to Puzzle's questions as well.
You contradict yourself here. You seem to be saying that you 'truly appreciate' art, but at the same time, you show that you don't. To truly appreciate art, you've got to even appreciate what you don't like. So saying that someone is wrong for liking a certain art that you dislike is just showing how much you don't appreciate art.