Maybe I'm missing something, but this is the one matchup where I've found significantly different results. I've found that cruel control absolutely dominates this deck. Between forms of targetted removal and sweepers, I'm just unable to put enough pressure on the deck untill they can develop into their late game spells. By then, its a lost cuase.
If your finding differently, thats awesome, but could you talk more about it and what you find to work against them?
- Since most of you seem to be running at least 4 Borderposts, and no one seems to run more than 20 lands, any non-basic land seems like a horrible idea.
Only if you think mulliganing is the end of the world. It's not. It's not a pleasant feeling, but sometimes its necessary. Besides, mulliganning becuase you have 1 nonbasic and 2 border posts is not significantly different than having to mulligan becuase you have a handful of spells that require blue and only access to black and white mana. Running lots of borderposts means you do require lots of basics. But you have to construct a mana base that lets you cast your spells, and worrying only about borderposts doesnt let you do that.
Most decks don't play anything that costs 4 mana. Using the word "cheap" here is incredibly misleading.
Faerie Mechanist could be a poor man's Bloodbraid Elf, since you usually get another artifact to play. Yes, I realize it doesn't put the second artifact directly into play, but it's still another card.
Stretching is good excersize. But man are you stretching on this one.
Scourglass seems like it could wipe the opponent's board and leave yours unscathed
Yes, that's what it could do. Of course, in the situations where your opponents board is the problem, doesn't sleep just win the game? I mean, sure, Sleep costs 1 less and wins the game right then and there, but Scourglass costs more and makes you wait a turn to have any effect, so its got that going for it.
Sharuum reminds me of Broodmate Dragon...a 5/5 flyer plus another dude (most likely the Master of Etherium that got killed earlier) that DOES get put directly into play. Obviously it has a high CC, so 2 seems like a good number.
Even if Sharuum was another Broodmate (which its not), this deck wouldn't play it. Seriously, if broodmate was an artifact and costs 6 colorless, it wouldn't see play in the stormblade based beatdown. Of course, in a transumter/sculptor based slower esper deck... but thats a different deck.
I still love the Glaze Fiends. Even when you don't have the thopter+fiend explosion, I've found that the Fiends are the best 2 drop in terms of getting damage in. You've got access to several bears, the stormblade swings for 3 (usually), but it's really common to be swinging for 4 with the little flier on turns 3 and 4. When a creature shows itself to be the best in the deck for getting in for the early damage, has easier mana requirements than alot of the comparable creatures, and can double as part of your finisher... It's hard to find something that strong.
As for the Etherium Sculptors, I'm just not seeing it. They aren't a threat. Pretty much every creature in the deck is a threat, but a 1 power 2 CMC creature is not threatening. In addition to that, they sit in the same spot on your mana curve as the majority of your threats. So to get benefit of them, you have to slow yourself down (by dropping a sculptor on turn 2 instead of one of your more disruptive or threatening creatures) to speed yourself up. Finally, too many of the creatures or cards in the deck just don't benefit from them. Cards with no generic mana in their casting costs like stormblade, outlander and the sculler are all cards that you should be playing and don't benefit from the sculptor in any way.
As for the alchemist, it's a neat idea, but I don't know. Due to the lack of synnergy with other cards in your deck, its not something you'd want in every matchup. In the situations that you would want it, wouldn't Sleep or Mirrorweave or one of those other game winners be better?
I like this decks options against other aggro decks. It gets out of the gate fast and has some real nice disruption and evasion. The only situation where I find trouble is when the opponent is able to slow the board and establish a creature superiority. Of course, some targetted kill and/or Sleep/Mirrorweave tends to break through those situations and get the win.
The real issue I've been seeing is the 5 color control and other control variants. The deck has not been consistantly fast enough to reliably cuase trouble before they are able to stabilize and the longer the game goes, the more it favors them instead of me. What have been people using to give them their best shots against the more controlling decks?
Canonist can be very disruptive. And I wouldn't advocate going below 4 between main and board. I was just relaying my experince, which admittadly was against several decks that didn't run Bloodbraid. Against decks that plan to use Cascade, the canonist is brutal. But I was surprised at how many decks functioned basically the same under the limits imposed by the canonist. Still an exceptionally strong cards, but much more matchup dependent than I had anticipated. Everytime I was sideboarding, I found the canonist to be a card I sided out and never missed. This is not something I would have predicted from just theorycrafting, so I wanted to share.
I see what your saying about the sculptors with the kaliedestone/flask and Esperzoa, I really do but that doesn't mean it makes sense. And really, since consistancy is key getting lured in by the god draw you posted seems foolish, as the odds of seeing something like that when you need it are next to nill. The number one thing I take away from those cards is that they are weak on their own. Sculptor is weak on its own. It is. By itself, a 1/2 for 2 mana is a crappy play for a beatdown deck. Elsewhere flask/Kalediestone is weak on its own. I'm all for card advantage, but your basically playing 2 mana to cycle. The card does nothing for you but waste tempo and replace itself. Not a strong thing for an aggressive deck. I'm sure its great when you have multiple sculptors and a cantrip artifact and an esperzoa. But your likely not going to have them all together that much. And when you don't have them all together your stuck with cards that aren't that strong on their own and you find that playing creatures that don't beatdown well in a beatdown deck or playing cards that dont threaten the opponent in an aggressive deck isn't that strong.
What's worse is that it lures you away from playing really good cards. Tidehollow sculler is disruptive. It's disruption that smacks your opponent across the face. But since your committed to the sculptors, who don't interact with the sculler your not playing them. Veldekan outlander is another really solid creature. But rather than have a set of them in the main, you've got only a pair of them in the board, again becuase they don't interact well with the sculptor. So much of the removal in the format is red.
As for the glaze fiends, they aren't bad without the thopter foundry. With glaze fiend as your 2 drop, they will likely get in for 4 each on the next 2 turns and a smattering of 2's after that. And sure, if you get the undisrupted combo of your sculptors AND flask AND esperzoa than they are sure to have a decent body for later swings. But aside from the shieldmage, you always know what your going to get with them. With a thopterfoundry on the board, a glaze fiend can hit for 10 at any moments notice.
I think the 3 random 1 ofs in your deck are kinda sad. Don't get me wrong, I understand the princiuple of the game might go late and you need a bomb to let you come back into it and save the game. But 1 of those cards has to do it better than the others, wouldn't you be better off playing triple of that card?
It really strikes me as if you've diluted the threat density of the deck, made it more vulnerable to disruption and removal, and lost the ability of it to just combo-kill the opponent. But thats just my opinion based on the experiences I had playing it.
Why would you play the Glaze Fiends if your not going to play thopter foundry? The two of those cards together let you turn any opening into "Surprise, I win". People overestimate how much M10 rules hurt the foundry, it's still really strong (no, you won't gain life from your lifelinked creature).
I understand the appeal of the kaliedestone/Esperzoa combo, I really do. But it will distract you from winning games. You win games with this deck by being aggressive and getting into the red zone. Wasting 2 mana a turn and being proud of how much card drawing your doing isn't going to be as helpful as you think.
Canonist is less disruptive than you think. Tidehollow sculler and the pro red guy are two amazing beaters.
I'd run 4 canonist between main and board, but I was underwhelmed when I played with him. Cutting Scullers or Veldaken Outlanders seems dumb as they are efficient and disruptive, which is what this deck is built on.
Whats with the etherium sculptors? Is this a product of your kalediestone stuff? Every card in the deck costs 3 or less, why do you need a creature thats a poor attacker that reduces mana costs?
16 lands and 8 borderposts seems light. I had to mulligan alot with 17+8, cutting 1 does a little crazy.
Maybe I'm missing something, but this is the one matchup where I've found significantly different results. I've found that cruel control absolutely dominates this deck. Between forms of targetted removal and sweepers, I'm just unable to put enough pressure on the deck untill they can develop into their late game spells. By then, its a lost cuase.
If your finding differently, thats awesome, but could you talk more about it and what you find to work against them?
Only if you think mulliganing is the end of the world. It's not. It's not a pleasant feeling, but sometimes its necessary. Besides, mulliganning becuase you have 1 nonbasic and 2 border posts is not significantly different than having to mulligan becuase you have a handful of spells that require blue and only access to black and white mana. Running lots of borderposts means you do require lots of basics. But you have to construct a mana base that lets you cast your spells, and worrying only about borderposts doesnt let you do that.
Most decks don't play anything that costs 4 mana. Using the word "cheap" here is incredibly misleading.
Stretching is good excersize. But man are you stretching on this one.
Yes, that's what it could do. Of course, in the situations where your opponents board is the problem, doesn't sleep just win the game? I mean, sure, Sleep costs 1 less and wins the game right then and there, but Scourglass costs more and makes you wait a turn to have any effect, so its got that going for it.
Even if Sharuum was another Broodmate (which its not), this deck wouldn't play it. Seriously, if broodmate was an artifact and costs 6 colorless, it wouldn't see play in the stormblade based beatdown. Of course, in a transumter/sculptor based slower esper deck... but thats a different deck.
As for the Etherium Sculptors, I'm just not seeing it. They aren't a threat. Pretty much every creature in the deck is a threat, but a 1 power 2 CMC creature is not threatening. In addition to that, they sit in the same spot on your mana curve as the majority of your threats. So to get benefit of them, you have to slow yourself down (by dropping a sculptor on turn 2 instead of one of your more disruptive or threatening creatures) to speed yourself up. Finally, too many of the creatures or cards in the deck just don't benefit from them. Cards with no generic mana in their casting costs like stormblade, outlander and the sculler are all cards that you should be playing and don't benefit from the sculptor in any way.
As for the alchemist, it's a neat idea, but I don't know. Due to the lack of synnergy with other cards in your deck, its not something you'd want in every matchup. In the situations that you would want it, wouldn't Sleep or Mirrorweave or one of those other game winners be better?
I like this decks options against other aggro decks. It gets out of the gate fast and has some real nice disruption and evasion. The only situation where I find trouble is when the opponent is able to slow the board and establish a creature superiority. Of course, some targetted kill and/or Sleep/Mirrorweave tends to break through those situations and get the win.
The real issue I've been seeing is the 5 color control and other control variants. The deck has not been consistantly fast enough to reliably cuase trouble before they are able to stabilize and the longer the game goes, the more it favors them instead of me. What have been people using to give them their best shots against the more controlling decks?
I see what your saying about the sculptors with the kaliedestone/flask and Esperzoa, I really do but that doesn't mean it makes sense. And really, since consistancy is key getting lured in by the god draw you posted seems foolish, as the odds of seeing something like that when you need it are next to nill. The number one thing I take away from those cards is that they are weak on their own. Sculptor is weak on its own. It is. By itself, a 1/2 for 2 mana is a crappy play for a beatdown deck. Elsewhere flask/Kalediestone is weak on its own. I'm all for card advantage, but your basically playing 2 mana to cycle. The card does nothing for you but waste tempo and replace itself. Not a strong thing for an aggressive deck. I'm sure its great when you have multiple sculptors and a cantrip artifact and an esperzoa. But your likely not going to have them all together that much. And when you don't have them all together your stuck with cards that aren't that strong on their own and you find that playing creatures that don't beatdown well in a beatdown deck or playing cards that dont threaten the opponent in an aggressive deck isn't that strong.
What's worse is that it lures you away from playing really good cards. Tidehollow sculler is disruptive. It's disruption that smacks your opponent across the face. But since your committed to the sculptors, who don't interact with the sculler your not playing them. Veldekan outlander is another really solid creature. But rather than have a set of them in the main, you've got only a pair of them in the board, again becuase they don't interact well with the sculptor. So much of the removal in the format is red.
As for the glaze fiends, they aren't bad without the thopter foundry. With glaze fiend as your 2 drop, they will likely get in for 4 each on the next 2 turns and a smattering of 2's after that. And sure, if you get the undisrupted combo of your sculptors AND flask AND esperzoa than they are sure to have a decent body for later swings. But aside from the shieldmage, you always know what your going to get with them. With a thopterfoundry on the board, a glaze fiend can hit for 10 at any moments notice.
I think the 3 random 1 ofs in your deck are kinda sad. Don't get me wrong, I understand the princiuple of the game might go late and you need a bomb to let you come back into it and save the game. But 1 of those cards has to do it better than the others, wouldn't you be better off playing triple of that card?
It really strikes me as if you've diluted the threat density of the deck, made it more vulnerable to disruption and removal, and lost the ability of it to just combo-kill the opponent. But thats just my opinion based on the experiences I had playing it.
I understand the appeal of the kaliedestone/Esperzoa combo, I really do. But it will distract you from winning games. You win games with this deck by being aggressive and getting into the red zone. Wasting 2 mana a turn and being proud of how much card drawing your doing isn't going to be as helpful as you think.
Canonist is less disruptive than you think. Tidehollow sculler and the pro red guy are two amazing beaters.
I'd run 4 canonist between main and board, but I was underwhelmed when I played with him. Cutting Scullers or Veldaken Outlanders seems dumb as they are efficient and disruptive, which is what this deck is built on.
Whats with the etherium sculptors? Is this a product of your kalediestone stuff? Every card in the deck costs 3 or less, why do you need a creature thats a poor attacker that reduces mana costs?
16 lands and 8 borderposts seems light. I had to mulligan alot with 17+8, cutting 1 does a little crazy.