MTG Salvation

The permenant fix for Momentary Blink is already in Oracle (Gatherer).

Quote from Momentary Blink »

• 25/09/2006 When Momentary Blink resolves, the creature is removed from the game, then immediately returned to play. The game sees the returning card as a different permanent from the one that left play. Any counters, Auras, and so on are removed. Any spells or abilities targeting the creature no longer target it.
• 25/09/2006 Any "as comes into play" choices for the affected creature are made by its owner, not its old controller.
• 25/09/2006 If Momentary Blink is played on a token creature, the token will return to play, because by the time State-Based Effects are checked, it’s already back.

So why so much uproar over a token coming back into play. And for that matter, what about the interaction of Withdraw and Elvish Spirit Guide tokens?

The other major thing to keep in mind is that the rules must be read, interpreted & enforced as a single entity. While there may be parts of the rules that say something can or cannot happen, the exceptions come from applying the whole rules to that situation.

As you've so conveniently provided an example, Momentary Blink is one of the examples where Magic uses more complex rules interactions to solve a gamestate. You are correct that a token ceases to exist when it leaves the game. However, that's only due to SBE's being checked after the token leaves play (ala, the second layer of rules interactions with the effeect). But if you step out one layer of rules, you see that SBE's aren't checked until a spell/effect has finished resolving yadda yadda yadda... I know we all know the technicalities of how it works, I just want to show the relationships between the two sets of rules put forth by one document.

<BIBLICAL EXAMPLE>

It's like a classic Blblical example of reading things out of context. Matthew 25:7 says "...Then he went away and hanged himself." Luke 10:37 says "...Jesus told him, "Go and do likewise." So, if you take partial interpretation, some might try to argue that Jesus tells people to go hang themselves.

This is NOT TRUE. Matthew 25 (the chapter) talks about how Judas betrayed Jesus and he was stricken with remorse (and thus hung himself). Luke 10 (the chapter) was Jesus teaching about the Good Samaritan and how you should treat others. See the change in context?

</BIBLICAL EXAMPLE>

Same goes with the rules of Magic. It works as one body, not pieces that can be cherry picked. Make sense?

Quote from Ouizzeul

Clickslither is huge against aggro deck. How do you beat a 16/16 trample on turn 3/4?

In a control deck, ala UW Control, they'll happily Condemn the Clickslither. The lifegain is only a temporary setback.

While Clickslither does seem nice, there is a fair deal of removal (and bounce for that matter) available in the format that can deal with it. It's that whole "putting all of your eggs in one basket" thing that I don't like about it.

Now, if you can power the 'slither out on turn 2 with some stupid Prospector tricks and Chrome Mox with the possibility of an EtW in the same turn, then I'd highly consider it. Turn 3-4 allows your opponent to respond. Any earlier in the game and they'll have to rely on the beginning draw.

All that said, I would agree that Clickslither would be a good way to get past pro-red critters. And with BDW's rise in popularity, it may be the one thing that should sinch you some games... Overall, Clickslither is nothing more than a "win-more" card.

Although SSS can't be targeted, you are "chosing" SSS. The rules state (somebody got the comp. rules? I don't have a handy version) to target something, the effect must specifically tell you to target.

You targeted your critter and chose SSS. Check the autocard in gatherer:

Quote from Gatherer »

5/1/2006 Only the creature that's becoming a copy is targeted. The creature that it will copy isn't chosen until Cytoshape resolves.

EDIT -- 'nathed again. And Sutherlands is correct in the accounts given.

Quote from Sutherlands

NO! With Eureka and Hypergenesis you are PUTTING CARDS INTO PLAY. You are NOT playing them. You will not draw ANY cards from the Enchantress.

See above stricken-through post. I assumed Enchantress triggerd on enchantments coming into play, not playing them.

Hypergenesis + Venduran Enchantress != combo.

Quote from Exquisite_Oath

Thank you for the response.

In other words, there is no way this works, unless you draw into another hypergenesis and do it again two turns later?

And yes, you're right. it wasn't Eureka it was Aluren and Recycle.

The best way to abuse something like Hypergenesis+Enchantress would be to suspend two Hypergenesis on the same turn. When you remove the last counter from each of them, they will be placed on the stack. Once the first one resolves (and all of the draw triggers are put on the stack and you draw), you could then play any cards you drew from the Enchantress via the second Hypergenesis.

And yes, Aluren + Recycle + some critter with CMC of 3 or less will allow you to draw your deck (unless you opponent has any answers).

Anyway, that's strategy and not rulings.

* benwalden offers a beer the first mod that locks this thread.

EDIT -- I *assumed* the Enchantress triggered on the enchantments coming into play, not playing them... My bad!

Quote from Exquisite_Oath

Once upon a time there was a combo of Eureka and Recycle, basically you put your entire deck into play for free (play a card off of Eureka, recycle sees you playing a card, you draw card etc.)

The most recent variant of Eureka is HyperGenesis, but I'm wondering if stack rules have changed since then. I'm looking at Verduran Enchantress enchantments in conunction with HyperGenesis. Would this work?

I think the combo you want to play has changed slightly. The big thing to remember is that, once Hypergenesis begins resolving (players putting permenants into play), any triggers that occur by permenants coming into play (see Verduran Enchantress Aether Flash) will not go on the stack until *after* Hypergenesis has completed resolving and is put into your graveyard (namely becuase players do not recieve priority during the resolution of a spell -- don't confuse that with what's going on with Hypergenesis. Hypergenesis is just asking players to make a choice. It doesn't actually pass priority). Then VE's triggers will be put onto the stack and you'll draw.

NOTE -- Eureka and Recycle were never a combo. Eureka let you put cards into play. Recycle triggers on playing cards. Putting cards into play != playing cards.

Card choice question:

Why does 4 Terrarion not replace a sum of 4 Eggs? Is it due to the CIPT portion not interacting well with Second Sunrise? You do gain the advantage of drawing a card when you Reshape it away for a Lotus Bloom...

Thoughts?

Quote from Etllag

I was playing an extended Rock deck versus a BDW deck. My opponent goes first. and plays a land. My turn 1, I play a swamp and duress, and get a Sudden Shock from his hand, and see he has a second Sudden shock in his hand. He goes and drops a second land on his turn two and passes. On my turn two, I play another land, and play Sakura-Tribe Elder.

He says he wants to play Sudden Shock to kill it before I can sac if for a land. I say he can't do that because I do not have to give him priority after the Tribe-Elder resolves and comes into play. As the active player, I get priority after a creature spell resolves to do whatever I want, such as sacrifice Sakura-Tribe Elder, or play another instant, sorcery, creature or artifact, before I have to give him priority to play the Sudden Shock. Obvioiusly, knowing that the split second card is in his hand after the duress, I would pop the STE for the land immediately. He disagrees saying I can't do anything in repsonse to his Sudden Shock, which I agree with, but we disagree about when he actually gets a chance to play the spell.

Am I correct that I can pop the elder before he can play the burn spell or am I misunderstanding the timing rules about priority?

Thanks in Advance.

The thing to keep in mind is that once STE resolves, it's put into play and you regain priority. After that, I'm guessing the stack is empty. Because you have priority on your turn, you can chose to activate STS and sac it before your opponent will be able to play SS.

Now, if it were you're opponent's turn, they could play SS targeting the STE and kill it before you could sac it.

So, you can sac it immediaetly after it comes into play, but if you let it linger any further past that (ie, passing priority to your oppoent), the STE's toast.

EDIT -- double 'nathed.

Quote from Jiaozy

Uhmm...
I still don't see the need of banning it but oh well, what do I know?

I think it's more of an unspoken rule that free spells with a lack of a drawback (which returning two islands to your hand isn't really a drawback) are bah-ro-ken. Being able to use used resources twice to benefit yourself (drawing cards) is stupid good.

Think of Gush as a free Ancestral Recall... I know it's a stretch, but if played on turn two, you can net 3 mana (of any mixture due to the duals) and net 3 cards to your hand (2 drawn, 1 returned land). So that's a Black Lotus and Ancestral Recall combined into one card.

Yeah, I hate blue but would run 4 Gush when I could.

Quote from Jiaozy

I may be retarded or lost the passages but why was Gush restricted/banned in the first place?
I wasn't playing Magic when this happened so I don't know wich decks abused it since it's not a clearly and vastly abusable card (like YWill and Bargain, Sol Ring and the moxen) but outside of playing it with Explorations and Vinelasher Kudzu/Quiryon Dryad to make them huge or to pay a Stasis upkeep I don't really see any other way to break it

Could someone explain please?

Free storm spell. Draw 2 cards. 'Nuff said.

Quote from Belgareth

Erm ben your a judge and all , but If I am not mistaken sunrise says "from play" meaning discarding cards from hand with winds is useless for sunrise ?

Note to self -- RTFC.

My bad.

Although the namesake would make one think that the eggs are the better play, the 4 Chromatic Star and 4 Chromatic Sphere are really the better draw/filter engine. Although Star/Sphere and Eggs have the same CMC, it's easier to activate Star/Sphere and they net you the same result (drawing the 1 card).

If you're looking for more card draw, consider an additional Tolarian Winds MD'd (I'm testing an additional on in the place of 1 Reshape). So far, the extra winds has provided for some explosive draws (16 cards on turn 4 or 5, can't remember which) and it acts as a wonderful hand dumper for Second Sunrise. I've had several games where I've had to Winds a hand of 5-7 cards to get 1 or 2 Lotus Blooms into the graveyard to 'rise them out (needed them in play that turn).

Past that, I think this deck has plenty of card draw.

EDIT -- I really need to read cards more closely...

Quote from Offkorn

Cycled Slice and Dice (or Tremor) could be an option, Sphere of Law is possibly a better choice though, as it's also useful in the mirror (and makes your Chars rather 1-sided).

Seriously? Sphere of Law is a 4CC enchantment... I though the CC cap for cards in BDW was 3. (None of that was intended to be sarcastic.) Plus, there's plenty of enchantment hate in the format (namely, Disenchant and Naturalize, which the little green men can play due to fetchlands and duals...). I'm sure any gobbo player would love for you to tap out to drop the sphere (which you would probably have to do to stay alive). They nuke it and swing for the win.

I would think Tremor would be the better choice here, but you're whittling 3-4 SB spots for a somewhat conditional deck ATM... Haven't some decks been running Pyroclasm due to it's synergy with Silver Knight (and possibly Soltari Priest)? It allows you to clean the board and swing FTW (Empty the Warrens is a sorcery after all, but a Warchief+Piledriveromfg or SGC are all relatively fatal).

Not quite sure what the right answer is...