This is a really good write-up for this part of the primer. I really like the fact that you break apart the card selection in tiers to separate the Pauper/Peasant/Budget builds. I just have a few things that I think are worth including/changing.
- 3rd Paragraph - you say activate CoA's ability even though it's a trigger (I know, not really a big deal, but never know if someone may get confused)
- When talking about cards like Altar's Reap etc. that have sacrifice a creature as an additional cost, I think it is worth mentioning that these spells make it impossible for opponents to counter the sacrifice. When using targetted removal, things can end poorly with bounce / exile removal or counters. This is a good way to play around countermagic heavy metagames which is something I have found relevant. I even played Fling before.
- I agree with Overheat's opinion on more basic lands. Having so many ramp spells in the Pauper version leads to absurd mana advantages in the late game thanks to cards like Far Wanderings that help us keep opponents buried under our card advantage.
- I also think the Game Plan of the deck shoudl be in a section before this. Probably just before this. I would think that starting out with the history of the deck --> Game Plan --> Card Selection --> Other Resources would be a good plan, or something along those lines.
I really like how this is looking though. Very detailed and lots of information. I can't wait to see a thread where formatting makes it look that much more organized and cleaner.
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- bfine70
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Member for 14 years, 8 months, and 15 days
Last active Sat, Apr, 13 2024 20:52:49
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My style of play seems like it aligns with urdjur. Child is a political piece that just serves to keep me alive and prevent anyone else from winning until everyone else is out of resources and I have tons of mana and control pieces. I regularly consider cutting the combo completely, but at this point, that would only mean cutting Cloud of Faeries and maybe Rolling Thunder (which I've considered cutting separately) so I may not even bother. I am giving Ephemerate a try, since I do get down to 1v1 scenarios or 1v2 scenarios regularly enough that a slow lock like that could still be very strong. I am not adding more than 2 recursion wizard effects just yet, but if I added a 3rd it would be Salvager of Secrets (already running Izzet Chronarch and Archaeomancer).
Most of the other changes seem fine to me. I've tinkered with Impulse but typically find it underwhelming so it never sticks around. I may end up back on some of the False Defeat-like effects, but I don't think I'd go all-in on all of them. I usually want to find one of the more engine-ish recursion cards (Disturbed Burial/Reaping the Graves/Grim Harvest) and have the other recursion be there just in case.
I am interested to hear how you feel about Minimus Containment. I opt for Forsake the Worldly because I can cycle it when I run into early on and don't need it, knowing I can likely recur it later as needed. If you're opting for Minimus, I'd also recommend trying out Faith's Fetters since it doesn't give the opponent access to something like a commander as easily by just sacrificing the newly created Treasure.
P.S. My list has now been updated on the spreadsheet as well!
1x Nevinyrral, Urborg Tyrant
Lands (39)
1x Ash Barrens
1x Azorius Chancery
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Command Tower
1x Dimir Aqueduct
1x Esper Panorama
1x Evolving Wilds
1x Glacial Floodplain
1x Ice Tunnel
1x Mortuary Mire
1x Mystic Sanctuary
1x Orzhov Basilica
1x Path of Ancesty
13x Snow-Covered Island
2x Snow-Covered Plains
9x Snow-Covered Swamp
1x Snowfield Sinkhole
1x Terramorphic Expanse
Enchantments (1)
1x Kaya's Ghostform
Creatures (13)
1x Archaeomancer
1x Cadaver Imp
1x Dimir Infiltrator
1x Drift of Phantasms
1x Kami of False Hope
1x Mnemonic Wall
1x Mulldrifter
1x Peregrine Drake
1x Salvager of Secrets
1x Sea Gate Oracle
1x Sidisi's Faithful
1x Stonehorn Dignitary
1x Wretched Gryff
1x Bone Shards
1x Compulsive Research
1x Deep Analysis
1x Disturbed Burial
1x Merchant Scroll
1x Night's Whisper
1x Notion Rain
1x Ponder
1x Preordain
1x Read the Bones
1x Secrets of the Golden City
1x Treasure Cruise
Artifacts (2)
1x Commander's Sphere
1x Darksteel Ingot
Instants (32)
1x Abjure
1x Altar's Reap
1x Arcane Denial
1x Behold the Multiverse
1x Brainstorm
1x Capsize
1x Costly Plunder
1x Counterspell
1x Crib Swap
1x Deadly Dispute
1x Deprive
1x Devour Flesh
1x Diabolic Edict
1x Dispel
1x Displace
1x Dizzy Spell
1x Ephemerate
1x Faerie Trickery
1x Forbidden Alchemy
1x Forsake the Worldly
1x Ghostly Flicker
1x Impulse
1x Muddle the Mixture
1x Mystical Teachings
1x Negate
1x Perilous Research
1x Perplex
1x Reaping the Graves
1x Shred Memory
1x Soul Manipulation
1x Undying Evil
1x Village Rites
This is the current list of cards I am considering, with plenty more to be added soon:
1x Vedalken Aethermage
1x Brainspoil
1x Clear the Mind
1x Devious Cover-Up
1x Grim Harvest
Further comments:
1) Fleshbag Marauder over Slum Reaper - thanks to Commander Legends, Fleshbag is a common now. 1 mana cheaper and much easier to transmute for if need be.
2) Recursion - I don't see the need to play much in the way of recursion. Muldrotha provides so much of the necessary recursion on its own. It may be worth playing 1-2, but outside of Archaeomancer, I don't see the need.
3) 1v1 vs. multiplayer - as I continue tweaking the list, I keep having to make decisions on cards based on what setting I plan on playing in. I think I will aim to keep my list multiplayer focused, but I will maintain a sideboard of cards I think the deck should run should you anticipate more 1v1 play. I think the discard may just not be worth it unless you are in more 1v1 games.
If you like Infuse with Vitality, I'd recommender Abnormal Endurance or Demonic Gifts instead. Same effect without the life gain, and a little easier to cast.
The other other card I had on my radar to potentially try is Resculpt. I already don't play Crib Swap or Ravenform, but if I did, I think I'd play Resculpt for the simple fact that the 4/4 seems like it would be fairly negligible in most circumstances.
This is the deck that gets me most excited for spoiler season! Can't wait for more on MH2 and the D&D set.
- Impulse
- Dream Fracture
- Augur of Bolas
+ Behold the Multiverse
+ Psychic Strike (maybe Deprive later)
+ Sea Gate Oracle
I am also strongly considering switching Tranquil Thicket to the UG or GB Campus and then changed Grim Discovery to something else as well. Maybe I cut Coiling Oracle for Spore Frog and play Disturbed Burial / Grim Harvest and aim for the grind more often than not.
EDIT: I also like the new card Resculpt in place of Crib Swap
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/uGoWoTNOOUy4vtnIazlnxA
I like the Land Grant change to the manabase and how it works alongside the Into the North/Farseek package. Looking forward to better and better lands going forward since I still want to cut the panoramas but I'll give them another go. I think the only different I noticde mana wise was that I am playing Simic Growth Chamber over Opal Palace simply because I don't typically see myself wanting to fork over the extra mana for Child later in the game, he's already a sufficiently large beatstick for me.
I only have a few other thoughts on your changes. I am happy to see you being open to shifting towards an overall lower mana curve. I think it makes the early and late game much smoother since you can always have interaction up, and typically a few pieces. I'm not so sold on the Fleshbag Marauder and Fiery Cannonad. Relying on the commander is just what the deck does and I'm not typically worried about the cards that can die to Cannonade if I'm not able to play Child. Fleshbag just seems like a worse version of any other kill spell, the body won't ever stick around and if you want an edict effect, I'd argue you're better off just playing an edict. I'll stick to only Sidisi's Faithful as my creature sacrifice outlet.
I can't ever see myself dropping the double recursion wizard package. That's what made the deck so fun to me originally and I've multiple times considered cutting Cloud of Faeries and centering more around the controlling aspect and Flicker softlock. I want to like Deprive, and I think in a 1v1-centered build it is perfect. In multiplayer it seems way less appealing to me. Flood of Recollection is a card I was excited to try when it was first downshifted, but I think if I want a Regrowth-esque card, I'd go with Reclaim. I'm not sure the deck wants that at the moment, but if you're cutting a recursion wizard, it seems like the next best thing.
I did decide to try out some of the cards you mentioned I've previously given up on. Here is my next out / experimenting with list as well as the list of other cards I'm considering to replace them.
Iffy
- Augur of Bolas
- Coiling Oracle
- Rolling Thunder
- Impulse
Next Up
- Behold the Multiverse
- Crib Swap
- Rain of Revelation
- Reclaim
Land Grant is a very interesting idea. I haven't been playing Wellspring already but I could be persuaded to try Land Grant. What is your exact manabase using that. I'm curious which Island snow duals you would also run, if any others.
Dispel and Behold have the same type of reasoning. I want the deck to shift more towards very cheap answers due to the fact that the groups I'm playing with lean more toward the competitive side of things. Dispel often wins a lot of counter wars. I think the split on those will always just vary based on playgroup which means there isn't a "right" answer. I frequently go back and forth on BEB v. the second of Pyroblast/REB.
Behold is also good because it is a cheap draw spell. I am typically foretelling it very early on turns where I've cast some type of ramp and don't need to worry about leaving up answers. The ab ility to toss it out there and get a 2 mana solid draw spell is good. It may not stay long term, but so far I've been happy with it. I have never like Foresee, but I think it mainly boils down to the fact that is isn't an instant. I don't mind paying 4 mana for a draw spell, but I don't want to be tapped down for an entire turn cycle to do so. I've also considered Rain of Revelation multiple times in the same slot.
I had the same thought about Rolling Thunder right after I submitted my post but then didn't remember if I ever went back and mentioned that.