MTG Salvation

Quote from Redirus91

Pro players Reid Duke and William Jensen go at it on Starcitygames premium. Here is the deck list. So we still have to worry/think about Azorius Charm.
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/27316_Esper-Control-vs-The-World-Esper-Controls-Side.html

DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
Creatures (3) 1 Aetherling 2 Blood Baron of Vizkopa 1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion 4 Jace, Architect of Thought 5 Island 4 Plains 3 Godless Shrine 4 Hallowed Fountain 4 Temple of Deceit 4 Temple of Silence 3 Watery Grave	4 Detention Sphere 4 Azorius Charm 4 Devour Flesh 3 Dissolve 1 Hero's Downfall 4 Sphinx's Revelation 1 Divination 4 Supreme Verdict 1 Pithing Needle 2 Blood Baron of Vizkopa 2 Doom Blade 4 Gainsay 1 Last Breath 1 Negate 2 Jace, Memory Adept 2 Thoughtseize

This list seems...really bad for GW. Specifically running 4 blood barons for games 2/3 will be a real problem, as that is the most difficult card to beat by far from esper. Ugh. Ajani really will be necessary just to jump over blood baron /=

The devour flesh are fine, even great, as that gives the gw player an opportunity to sacrifice voice or the worst creature on board. It's so much worse for them on the draw too if you play turn 1 experiment one, turn two voice.

Quote from thg

I actually haven't been playing GW Aggro...but my son has. It seems that in a race GW Aggro tends to be the underdog unless you land an Unflinching Courage and they aren't able to 2-for-1. I am thinking that more life gain options would be a good thing.

When this thread was started, the general thinking seemed to be that GW Midrange would be good in an Aggro rich meta, then the meta wasn't as Aggro as expected and the thinking shifted to GW Aggro. Now that the meta seems to include more Aggro, I'm thinking Midrange might be worth another shot.

And, I loved the Archangel, Scavenging Ooze deck.

I don't think this would be a good decision. Going to a midrange build makes the deck much weaker against Esper, and weaker against mono black and mono blue. We just can't beat certain cards from each MU (elspeth/blood baron, desecration demon/whip of erberos, master of waves/tidebinder mage). With mana dorks for ramp the deck also becomes much weaker to kill spells and wrath effects. If esper and mono black consistently kill your turn 1 and 2 creature ramp, you'll often be stranded with a 5 or 6 drop in hand with only 3 lands on the battlefield. And even if you do play your GW fatty it will be immediately removed. If you want to play a ramp/midrange deck, I think Gr devotion and GB midrange would be much better, as thoughtseize and PW help you beat esper and mono black while also giving mizzium mortars and nylea's disciple to beat aggro.

If you are having trouble against aggro, SB 4 unflinching courage and you will be fine. Again, our creatures are already better than theirs, so the board gets gummed up pretty fast. Once you slap an unflinching courage on a smiter or wurm they've pretty much lost. They can't afford to let you gain 6-7 life, even for one turn.

Quote from LinkChmofsky

Switching back to the midrange deck I think would make our aggro match more consistently better, but dilute its power against Esper. So for now I am content to stick with aggro. The midrange might also be better against GR monsters/devotion but I am not sure.

I disagree with the first statement and agree with the second. Honestly, how is archangel of thune better than unflinching courage? How is gaining 3 life and then 4 life better than gaining 5-7 life each turn? The anthem effect doesn't really matter because our creature are already bigger than theirs to begin with so it's just overkill.

Quote from Caedere

My matchup against Black Devotion has been tough with this list, but I'm not sure exactly why. I don't know if it's the list itself or just how I've been playing it.

Moolesnya MidrangeMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
Creatures (32) 4 Elvish Mystic 4 Experiment One 4 Call of the Conclave 4 Voice of Resurgence 4 Selesnya Charm 4 Advent of the Wurm 3 Trostani, Selesnya's Voice 4 Scion of Vitu-Ghazi 1 Arbor Colossus	Spells (4) 3 Rootborn Defenses 1 Ajani, Caller of the Pride Lands (24) 4 Selesnya Guildgate 4 Temple Garden 7 Plains 9 Forest	Sideboard (15) 1 Pithing Needle 3 Druid's Deliverance 2 Sundering Growth 2 Renounce the Guilds 4 Fleecemane Lion 1 Ajani, Caller of the Pride 2 Arbor Colossus

Trying out Arbor Colossus because my deck would auto-lose to Stormbreath, so seeing if having a big fatty like him will help. He also synergizes well with Trostani and Experiment One.

I think this list might be weak to mono black because trostani is slow and unreliable against them. Trostani starts populating turn 5 earliest, and possibly later if they are killing all your tokens. She doesn't do enough on her own against a deck whose game plan revolves around killing all your creatures unfortunately.

likewise rootborn defense is too slow against mono black. You almost never have 3 mana up after you play a creature, so they just kill your creature whenever you cast it. You play EoT wurm and hope to untap with rootborn defense, but they just kill it immediately and strand rootborn defense in your hand. Obviously it's great if you they don't have a kill spell for it, but they usually do. That's why most people have switched to god's willing MB and rootborn defense SB for supreme verdict, as most removal is pinpoint and it's much easier to hold up W when casting creatures.

Quote from Col

@Skip430. The core seems fine to me! I don't like boon satyr or the soldier but that is my preference and meta. How are your games vs red based decks going? The lack of smiter, unflinching courage and trostani game one would hurt that match up. Main mistcutter sounds good but I like skylasher + bow of nylea. It helps with lots of matchups and gives an answer to stormbreath but again that is my preference.

The only card I think you MUST find room for is Ajani. He is just too good to leave at home.

The red MU is very draw dependent. If they draw multiple boros reckoners and/or mogis fanatics it's difficult. If I draw one of my lifegain effects, and/or multiple voice of resurgence, and/or advent of the wurm it's not as bad. Smiter here is much better than boon satyr, but I feel boon satyr is better in every other MU, as they both have 4 power (key) but boon satyr is better against control, forces my opponent to kill voice of resurgence, is more versatile, and just helps push damage through more effectively, as the card essentially has 2 forms of haste (entering the battlefield EoT and being attached to an attacking creature).

But yes, this MU is why I'm so hesitant in cutting all trostani and unflinching courage. It also actually hurts the mono blue MU a little bit, as they only way to beat them is to race, and the most effective way to race is with lifegain. But trostani and courage are terrible against mono black and esper, which I feel make up more of the meta right now. Still, the 53-55 core is constructed with a natural resilience against those decks (more esper than mono black though), so I feel those extra spots should go to lifegain effects, even though they have inherent weaknesses (being an aura) or are slow (trostani).

Also, while mistcutter hydra/scion of the vitu-ghazi are better than trostani/unflinching courage against esper and mono black, they aren't cards that win me the game against either of those MU's. By contrast, trostani/unflinching courage straight win me the game against mono red, and are the KEY cards for that MU.

At this point in my thought process, I'm sold on some lifegain effects. But what should be the split? 2-1 in favor of trostani or unflinching courage? I'm currently in favor of 2 unflinching courage because I have some support to protect it with god's willing, it's another way to abuse a monstrous fleecemane lion, and most importantly, because it simply allows the deck to be more aggressive.


I hadn't thought of the skylasher + bow of nylea combo to kill stormbreath dragon before. My first instinct though is that the cards do too little on their own to merit inclusion in an already tight list. Both seem like good hate cards with a lot of splash value, but they are too low impact compared to other options

The pros of skylasher are that it's a two drop, and is excellent hate against mono blue. I've tested skylasher against mono blue and found I can still lose the games fairly easily, as skylasher doesn't kill most of their creatures on defense and isn't much of a clock. Mistcutter on the other hand, destroys mono blue because he is scalable. skylasher is a 10 turn clock. mistcutter is usually a 5 turn clock (assuming 4/4), and is a 2-3 turn clock with 2. He also isn't killed by mutavalut, which is their only out to a pro blue threat. If you are running skylasher over mistcutter hydra, or even running any fewer than 4 mistcutter hydra for a split of the two then frankly you are doing it wrong. Mistcutter simply wins you the game against mono blue. Skylasher does not. Skylasher might seem to have more utility with reach and being able to block stormbreath dragon, but he is a bad answer to stormbreath dragon. If you are in a meta with a lot of Rb control or stormbreath dragon in general, I suggest SB 2 plummets rather than skylasher.

In the same vein, bow of nylea does a lot, but is too low impact. the activation cost is surprisingly high and will limit how often you can use it. The death touch and lifelink are by far the best abilities, letting you trade with desecration demon, stormbreath dragon, and any big threat (which I think is it's greatest strength) and hedge against aggro. Still, both those abilities are situationally good, in that are creatures already trade well for the most part and lifelink is only good against aggro. The real killer though is the activation cost. If it was only a tap ability I would consider it, but having a cost and not being able to use it every turn because of that, and doing nothing the turn in comes into play makes it too durdly for a deck that wants to win by smashing face.


As for Ajani, I actually used to be a huge proponent of the card. I feel his value has gone down significantly in a meta with a lot of black kill spells and other aggro decks. Ajani shines most against the mirror or midrange decks, allowing you to punch through damage, but too often the creature eats a removal spell and ajani is then attacked, destroyed, or (most commonly) ignored. He does nothing by himself and requires other creatures to be good, and my problem currently is either keeping my creatures alive, or keeping my life total out of burn/alpha swing range, not closing out the game. Ajani is essentially a conditional 4-5 damage burn spell than can sometimes do 8 damage and sometimes do nothing. Not only that, but the decks in which his ultimate would be good against play hero's downfall, ensuring I never get my cat tokens. The plus ability is fine but weak, so ajani should be evaluated in terms of if his middle ability can push through damage, and even then it's only really "good" if it's pushing through for lethal. How good is a 3 mana conditional lava axe? right now I'd say not so good. I think he can be very strong though, just not in this meta.


EDIT: Also, why are people running last breath over banisher priest against mono blue or anything in general? It's better against the mirror, polukranos, nylea, boros reckoner, and can exile thassa. Banisher priest can be killed, but then they are using removal on it rather than other creature, and it deals with so many more problematic threats. Can someone explain this to me?