MTG Salvation

Quote from rancored_elf

Seems a bit "win more" to bring back Jace1 more than once or twice, especially since that means you're swinging with an un-answered 6/6 each time. But yeah, once or twice is probably all it takes once you have some board position.

I think the important factor to consider when you are talking about 'win more' when you are swinging with a 6/6 is that sun titan has no evasion... you can be getting chumped by 0/1 plant tokens all day long, and so you will need to be swinging over and over to be putting 3cc perms into play.

the sun titan can play offense and defense, which is where you make your money, every turn you can swing, get back an edge, or an oring, or a jace, and still have a giant back to defend.

I wouldn't say bringing back a jace more than once or twice is overkill; since there's a good chance that depending on matchup, you are drawing cards without actually doing any damage.

9 packs opened

1 foil arid mesa
1 verdant catacombs

i don't play magic anymore, so to ebay they go!

Quote from urzassedatives

It should be noted that this card would trigger off duplicates, if it is worded as such...which is...interesting.

This statement is incorrect as the name on the ability is self-referential. If it were going to trigger off duplicates it would be worded as : Whenever a card named "THIS" is put into a graveyard from play...

Note the difference. Self-referential abilities do not trigger off duplicate copies occuring.

See: Mogg War Marshall. When Mogg WAr Marshall comes into play or leaves play, put a 1/1 red goblin creature token into play. When you have a mogg war marshall in play, and play an additional Mogg War Marshall, you do not get two tokens (one for the incoming creature and one for the instance already in play)... the name on the ability is self-referential and does not trigger when additinal instances of the element are present.

no more than 3.50 each, 13 for a set...

wow, that is just one sexy little accelerator...

Thank god magma spray and terror are in the metagame, because I sure as heck don't want to have to sit back while my opponent untaps with this thing in play... can' really even path to exile it, because then you are still giving them the mana acceleration...

So, bant aggro suddenly becomes tier one in shards block... too bad that's an irrelevant format for regular players. No PTQ season for block means noble heirarch sadly doesn't really get a chance to shine.

Quote from zuca_piau

hey probably right but if Akroma as attacked she can't block him, which makes him being sacrificed.

An user posted to check out the Lord of the Pit old card, I did that and it' is very look-a-like with the image fod DvD.

lol, akroma has vigilence. She can attack and then block... There are going to be very few situations where she cannot block and then kill a rakdos.

I'm thinking that multilate is a very important reality for the deck... maybe barter in blood too... but I don't think the edicts will be as good (probably will be one or two in the deck though), mostly because from the interview it suggests that the divine deck will not be "ramp ramp ramp akroma" but rather will involve clerics and knights which would be very sacrificeable to an edict. But a barter would be a bit harder to play around.

Quote from Pink Shirt Ninja

is it worth it? i dunno...what i do know is i want to open a foil one to make my ebay account happy

I'm curious what brings this on? He's going to be approximately as rare as Ethersworn Canonist/Knight of White ORchid/Cruel Ultimatum. Maybe a little more so. 1 in 8 rares is going to be a mythic rare, there are five mythic rares in conflux. I think that's not so bad, 1 in 40.

He's going to be a powerhouse, but he's not going to be that difficult to get your hands on. A foil nonPR ajani vengeant is only going for approximately 30 dollars. I don't see a foil NBP going for more than 45. If that's what you meant, then good on you, but I don't live in a world where I pray that I rip a 45 dollar card so I can sell it and be suddenly rich

The card itself is awesome so far though. I mean, everyone thought that Ajani was a PW assassin, this guy is doubly so. But... His cost is very very high for something like that. Yeah, lots of loyalty. That's great, 8 mana is so much.

I mean, Jace, the ajanis and garruk saw play because you could hit them early and start generating card advantage in phase 1 and 2. This guy hits, you're already in phase three, and smacking a land up isn't going to accomplish much more than liliana's discard would at that stage. It's going to be a means to an end at that point, and I think that while the ability is very good it is going to be meaningless for a lot of people who actually play the card.

If his ultimate is in any way a letdown this guy will see literally zero constructed PTQ/Regionals play. If his ultimate reads: You win the game, or some variation on that theme, then he will probably see some fringe PTQ regionals play. I just don't see him shaking up the format... but then again, I used to be on the GerryT side of the Cruel Ultimatum argument too, and I now play two in my deck.

I played monk at states.

I should have played finks.

End of story.

not if you really plan on using 4 of them as card drawing.,.. having less flexible role players helps you define the roles your more flexible cards will play.

well, I run tidings over mulldrifter in order to give myself a better mid- or late-game agaisnt the mirror, I've found mulldrifter to really be lacking.

and I'm not running condemn which is why I've been limiting my cipt lands. I was running condemn, but I replaced them with 2 board sweepers (I initially was running 3 wrath, 2 firespout before I made it 4 wrath, 3 jund charm).

thing about 5cc is they side out wrath against the mirror... I want to give them motivation to keep it in against me, so maybe my monks will do that... I want them to keep their wraths in, because they are so terrible against me it isn't funny; but if my monks are reason to keep them in, then that is pretty classy.

I dunno about innovative, it basically just takes a singular theme of the deck (LONG GAME) and takes it to an extreme. I don' run cruel ultimatum//nucklavee because I just find that resounding thunder and hellkite overlord to a better job of 'winning' the game whereas ultimatum does a very good job of putting your opponent in a situation where they have to either have already won (fifty kithkin on the board, and a mirrorweave inside a windswept) or start over again, which makes it hard for them to win.

tha's why I haven't really commented on your list: I think that it looks fine... I had the three islands too... but then I realized that there really isn't a place for them... they only make one colour, where every other land in the deck makes at least two. They aren't going to protect you from fulminator mage, are they? there aren't any blood moon effects to worry about in this format, and if there was, three islands isn't going to do it.

so I swapped them for some pains and another sunken ruins... then I started feeling the itch to get some more black and red lands which led to all this.

In short, I think that for a cruel deck, your looks fine? I dunno, but I would definitely consider taking out the islands for something more meaningful.

Quote from MrChupee

Do you *really* need to pull it off turn 3? I thought the main utility of Jund Charm was to hose 'yard shenanigans. If you want a Wrath effect, Firespout or Wrath itself does better. From what I see, that part is covered but I think if you really want it to come online you could benefit from running Sprouting Thrinax as additional incentive and reward to get Jund mana online as fast as you can.

You could replace some of your Vivid base for the appropriate Jund colors and run U/(G/R/B) pain lands (no more than two of each I guess?). The filters aren't going to help here either, forcing Graven Cairns in this deck is going to hurt.

I probably don't need it every game, no... but there are a lot of situations where you needed turn three firespout. Toast decks famously have been able to manage turn three firespout for six months. Jund chard is harder.

I was thinking of sprouting thirnax, but I like Rhox War Monk so much right now, it really does a lot of the things that finks does in the lifegain department which ends up being important in the face of potentially never-ending aggro decks at states. He isn't as resilient as finks or thrinax though as he dies outright to wrath of god instead of leaving behind pieces of himself like the other two do. Will that be important? Probably, but will it outweigh how much strong he is from the starting block? that I'm not sure.

I don't know how arrogant I am for wanting specific help for my situation... and I suppose that a person who doesn't actually read a thread could easily be confused when he didn't see my decklist posted with the request (I meant to ask for help when I posted the list, but in effect that wouldn't have helped since clearly nobody saw my decklist).

As per your manabase you suggested, I'm sure you are probably kidding, but that actually looks pretty innovative. it is more CIPT lands then I like (I run 10 in mine hesitating to even go to 11), but I had been toying with the idea of shard lands... I will definitely have to test it out to see if not having ALL THE COLOURS hurts more than having BLACK AND RED when you need it...

my estimation is that it probably hurt in terms of getting to double white in a hurry... but seriously, my list is probably just plain too greedy.

Quote from neversober13

well i don't see your decklist on this page of the thread. and BTW this has come up before on this thread and i wrote out a bit more detailed thing on the mana base of this archetype which was pretty much unanimously agreed on by the other consistent posters on this thread and a few of the people who actually played this deck at recent events because of the similarities that were prevelent. imo painlands are a bad idea in this archetype because you can't really afford the extra life loss against aggro especially because you play cloudthreshers MD with possibly more SB....

and the manabase was designed to be able to cast just about any spell early or late.. the deck and manabase for that matter was designed by probably one of the best players in magic.

but if your running more red and black in your list then white or green, you could probably drop some of the vivid groves and vivid meadows in favor of vivid crags and vivid marshes.

It's on the prevous page, four posts above my request in the thread.

I am not running more red and black than white or green, I am running a base bant toast list like everyone else but I am maindecking jund charms. I was asking if anyone had any good tips for lands I could run to help smooth out my quest for RGB on turn three followed by UUU1 on turn four.

I know how to build a traditional toast mana base, I was looking for alternatives because of my alternative variant.

what's your mana base? fire lit thicket is interesting, and I was thinking about it, but I hesitate because I'm afraid it might make it hard to cast cryptic on turn four... have you noticed that?

I don't run firespout in my list (I could go back, but I like Jund Charm maindeck so darn much right now), but when I did I usually found i didn't have a lot of trouble getting red OR green, my issue lately has been in getting Red, Green, AND Black all at once... consistenyl ,turn threee... that's not been easy.

I'm glad you agree with the pain lands approach though... I run one extra pain land but I might change the adarkar wastes for a fourth mystic gate... that might help the bleeding.

Quote from neversober13

its quite simple.. 10-12 vivids (4 creek 3 grove 3 meadow 2 marsh is what i run). 4 reflecting pool. 9 filterlands (all Ux). 2-3 island. 24-26 lands.

I love your arrogance.

Hwoever, you didn't quite get my question. I gave you a decklist like fuor posts above my request. I know what the foundation of the mana base usually looks like I've been running toast for six months now.

I was asking specifically what lands people think would help to ensure that my jund charms will be castable early while still maintaining early cryptic command mana. I was asking for specific help, not an outline.

I think I've decided with the help of a friend to cut my sunken ruins and cascade bluffs and the yavi coast for 3 underground river and 2 shivan reef. that should help me cast my jund charms early without being too many pain lands... I might keep one cascade bluffs over a shivan reef, I haven't quite decided yet.

Anyone think this is a stupid idea, or are there any other suggestions?

New BRunswick Champs going for the four-peat top8 this time with a toast variant.