i have currently only played this version of MGA against a UB Tron (which becomes quite a tricky match is they get land out quick and can stall your early game with counters). We played about 6 games pre-SB, and overall i won 4 out of those games. here's my decklist, and i feel an incredibly solid one at that:
notes: i run 4 copies of everything but invocations and the force, and it has been horribly consistant. pretty much every game i see a 1-drop and always have fatties to back em up on turns 2-3. i havent tested soilfuges, but i will soon (for those who do run it, how does has it worked out?) the drakes, with the help of early fatty beats and the pump-ups, become win conditions, which is incredible. stonewood invocation usually gets the trick done but i'd only go x2. the spectral force are potential game winners and have great synergy with the rangers, but i think more than 2 is overkill (mutual agreement between myself and my playtesting buddy). the rangers by themselves are amazing in that they can give you mana advantage, and they only get better with forces, but can stand alone perfectly fine. the harmonize are great.. i wouldnt go under 4 because by the time you play them, you need to recover from dropping virtually your whole hand turns 1-4, so after you beat the hell out of them then, you can recover hopefully for the win, or at least thats normally how it played out for me.
addressing splashes: I personally have no splashes as of yet.. since this is a primitive version of the deck, made explicitly for seeing how fast the deck would be, i obviously have improvments to make. i think black may be the rout to go as far as SB utility.. so when i figure out where i want this to go post-SB i will adjust my mana base accordingly. pendelhaven tho does not seem like a good idea, and i must say i am very fond of the safe haven ideas floating around...
On to the Tron match-up (only tested deck so far):
it basically went like this: if I had a decent hand, i casted smaller stuff, then tried to draw out his non-remand counters with rangers and such, saving breakers and timbermares for when he tapped out to play other stuff or draw. That, or i just went balls out and casted everything asap. If he stabilized and got out triskavi (plural of triskavus? whatever...) it pretty much spelled trouble. luckily tho, this deck is fast as hell.
Im anxious to playtest against aggro now, and soon i believe i will have results from Boros and blink riders matches, and perhaps an updated list and what i find, so till then, gents..
I really can't place any artist as being my favorite and above all the others, but those whom rank highest definatley include:
Carl Critchlow- anything he ever did John Avon- same Kev Walker- Deranged Hermit (thats one of my fav M:tG pics ever...his use of watercolors with ink is incredible) Mark Zug- Gaea's Crade Heather Hudson- Weatherseed Treefolk (no idea why) John Howe- i havent seen much of his M:tG pics but i repect this guy tremendously for his work with Lord of the Rings conceptions Greg Staples- everything of his The Hildebrandt Brothers- just great artists... Donato Giancola- for some obscure reason, his Forest #347 from MM is one of my favorite M:tG pics (if not my favorite altogether)... i guess its something about the shades of green and pastel tone and the space in the piece. great pic, that forest...
ya...soooo much good stuff, the art is originally why i got into the game, as i assume why many others did too:)
ok, if you have 4 mana open (2 being blue), you twincast their entwined tooth, pulling uyo and vamp... then you copy the tooth before it resolves with uyo and pull out trike and another vamp (or i guess sakashima). so why could you not win now, as before the tooth resolves, stack trikes ability on itself, getting 2 counters, stack another point of damage on itself on itself, get two more, and when you get enough to kill ur opponent, remove them all and do so?
i was led to believe that was viable, is it not? now yall got me confused...
-MD arashi? I have seen a fairly even mix of MD and SB
-has anyone tried vial MD? it works surprisingly well in my build, but i wasnt able to go to regionals (worked at both of my jobs that day:( ), so all i have is FNM results to testify as of yet
-stampeding serow? is he worth it? i havent seen many builds running him, but he looks sooo awesome with EW.
thats it for now. i should really be testing myself instead of posting here, but i wont have much time to do so in the next week or so, so maybe i can get a head start here.
I've been trying to make something solid around Trash for Treasure, it being the cheapest permanent reanimation spell in Standard. I've been thinking of somehow running Gifts Ungiven, though I'm often told it's overrated.
This deck is capable of reviving something by the second turn, but lately I've been lucky to get something off by the fourth.
i have been told that the artifact version of this deck is very good, but one thing i dont see you run which i believe you should is shrapnel blast. it often deals the extra couple of damage you need to finish the game, and i dont see a time where you wouldnt be able to use it. you DO run titan..
another thing to consider is bosh. he's a house with lots artifacts or just alone.
hey guys... well i took apart ponza for a while and now i'm back lol... here is my current build.. i made it off the top of my head so if anyone can inform me on whats good and whats not in ponza thanks a lot.. anyway here goes it
//Spells//
4 Stone Rain
4 Molten Rain
3 Demolish
4 Electrostatic Bolt(been trying pyrite spellbombs and didnt really like)
4 Magma Jet
3 Chrome Mox
1 Genju of the Spires
4 Seething Song
Sideboard
4 Pyroclasm
3 Sideswipe
3 Sowing Salt
NEED SOME MORE IDEAS LOL...
any help appreciated
concerning this list, i do think 12 LD spells are better. i'd make these changes:
-1 genju
+1 mox
-3 zo-zu
+3 pyroclasm
-4 bolt
+4 shock (much better than bolt now with rav gone....plus it hits players)
-1 magma jet
+1 demolish
what you could do to really make it interesting is replace the 4 sliths for 4 trinispheres. as silly as this may sound, last friday i had a mirror-match 1st round, and that was the difference between our decks. i am in the top 5 as far as skill goes at my FNM so i know how to play, and i even had good hands both the games it took him to tear me apart, but trinisphere killed me. he had jens too actually, and built a rapid mana count, but trinisphere can be deadly if you keep them under 3 lands if not the whole game then long enough screw their momentum, as is possible with ponza.
on the decision between spear and courier, definately courier. spear i though would initially be good, but i dont like showing my opponent my whole hand and strategy with it on turn 1. or at all for that matter. courier works wonders...i think he is enough.
concerning the creatures (threats), this is what i run:
kira and he who hungers are primarily for U/G control. i have so many control decks (most being U/G) in my area i need to run x2 boseiju main in addition to kira and HWH.
as far as boseiju is concerned, @ KPdaly: i recommended adding 1 or 2 boseiju to ur MD, and you said it wasn't a suitable mana replacement. for me (hence the reason for suggesting it), it's not only a suitble replacement but a necessary addition. i think boseiju greatly improves the control match-up, and is extremely effective MD.
for the most part, yes, the WW builds i run into ARE equipment heavy, and smart or not, one took second.
hence the horobi...
...it kills equipment builds.
i MD 2 boseiju (helps tremendously), and as you can see, SB 2. my area is majority U/G...which really sucks bc any mistakes can cause you the game, however small. not too many MUC (as of yet), but U/G is just a nuisance. also, MD decay helps very much. laughter i think i will have to incorporate MD or SB. which would you say is more effective? i will not have many opportunites to test before friday, so i can't say for sure personally.
Zjs: you need a viable SB. what you have now are cards that have no purpose on a SB apart from boseiju and the 2 counters. i understand they're just filler space temporarily, so let me suggest a possiblity (what works for me):
3 cranial extraction
3 persecute
1 hinder (i MD 3 of em and 4 leak)
3 echoing truth
2 horobi (against WW)
2 rend flesh
1 boseiju
I MD 3 echoing decay, so more often than not the echoing truths replace those...very effective to say the least, and once i ran truth MD over decay, but decay helps in game 1 vs. U/G much more.
kingchewie: i dont like seething song. i did run it, but found that in its place LD (or other spells) is better. if you open a hand with 2 LD spells, a slith, and maybe a mox or sumthing, you would keep it right? i prolly would...but lets say you then draw into songs. not good. you dont have anything to use the mana on...i would much rather it be demolishes or rains. there came a couple consecutive games where that happened, and i said screw it, so i took em out. if i were you, i'd replace the 4 songs with 3 demolish and either 1 more slogger, pulse, or pyroclasm. cuz if you think about it, they arent even needed. you need the early turns to break your opp's mana base, and song as i see it (how i used to play it) is for speeding out creatures, something you dont want to do with the early turns with this deck.
tell me... how is crack the earth? i never tried it, but am considering it. it doesnt seem like advantage tho bc you are both loosing something, and i would assume you'd drop it early game to kill their first land drop. doesnt seem worth it when you can just start bombing their mana base on turn 2-whenever you run outta LD.
Pulse of the Grid costs 3 and only gets used once. No, you're not going to get it back often enough for it to matter. Thought Courier occurs every turn.
I'm going to FNM tomorrow and I'm going to try a version of this deck out. It's a very rough build still, but it'll give me an idea of what's good and what's not. Here's the deck I'm going with.
Some of these are because of lack of cards, like Chrome Mox, City of Brass and Zombify. Heck, I only have 2 Hinders too.
Update:
I went 3-2 in a 5-round Swiss, but my 2 losses shouldn't have happened. I got mana-screwed twice for my first loss, then I played Affinity.
Hideous Laughter does help, I've found out.
I might cut Sift Through Sands for something more useful, like more Eerie Processions or Zombifies.
land screwed? that sucks, especially with low casting costs, 23 sources, and draw. your creature base looks solid too. i would do this tho to your decklist:
-courier over cloudskater. i think that courier is better bc you dont loose tempo (the land bounce) but i do run more control (4 leak, 3 hinder, 3 echoing decay).
these cards:
-1 Gifts Ungiven
-2 eerie procession
-2 Sift Through Sands
-2 Sensei's Divining Top
-1 or 2 tendo ice bridge
for
+1 or 2 boseiju
+3 zombify
+4 thirst for knowledge
on the above changes, thirst is better than sift. 3 cards in stead of 2, 2 threats in the 'yard instead of 1. you need more reanimation, and 4 zombify is better than 2 eerie procession. on boseiju, control may tear this up as i have found out many times (thats the deck i playtest against most), and MD protection against it helps.
-slumbering tora i have found is not as incredible as i thought. it does help in some situations, but post SB and some times MD, decks have a way to deal with it. i think they would do much better as x4 mana leaks.
well thats it. you may want to consider any of these changes tho..
Zjs: that deck looks pretty good. the only thing i would change is taking out the 2 peer through depths and adding another leak and hinder. you may also want to consider either echoing truth or decay (personally, i'd put them in place of the 3 mox). boseiju'd decay screws G/U Control, but truth may be needed to get rid of any hazards that get through your counters. if a threat does hit the board, you have no way to deal with it, and you cant rely on racing to win before they can pull off anything, bc as i see it, G/U would own this (not your build; i dont mean to rip on it bc it looks good...G/U in general kills this deck).
what all decks have you played? and also, could you give some results/analysis of them? i think many here would benefit from testing results.
hey all...this is where I'm at with this. I have found that it works better if you have more control elements in this deck, and not try for an all-out win and go pure combo. also, since G/U is prolly our worst match-up, i MD a good many things against it. heres my working build:
so thats the deck ive been testing. it does much better than previous builds i have tried. i SB 4 echoing decay for rude awakening, so thats covered. kira is protection against opposing echoing truths bc thats a pain when they truth your reanimation targets. he who hungers i know is not a beast in P/T, but he can help destroy G/U game 1...i found he is a great MD addition (as before, i ran him on the SB), and not just in the matches against G/U.
gifts ungiven i know has been getting some heat recently, but lemme say that this card rocks. if you need a creature, here is your line-up (i know its situational, but on average): iname, he who hungers, kuro, unspeakable. now tell me...either way, you get decent targets in the yard, so how is gifts a bad card? and if you need reanimation spells, i run 3 different ones for a reason, just pick beacon, vengeance and zombify then i usually pick a hinder or something. i am in full favor of this card.
one last thing. counters help so much. my games are becoming much more consistant with control (counters and truth/decay).
so thats where im at...give me some feedback or discussion or whatnot
concerning the SB, i think you need COP: red in there. maybe
-1 pulse
-1 prison
-1 bribery
+3 cop: red
you dont need the briberys that bad against tooth...you will be SBing in 4 quash, remember . between the hinders, leaks and quash, TaN should pretty much curl up into a fetal position.
i have currently only played this version of MGA against a UB Tron (which becomes quite a tricky match is they get land out quick and can stall your early game with counters). We played about 6 games pre-SB, and overall i won 4 out of those games. here's my decklist, and i feel an incredibly solid one at that:
20 forest
Creatures:
4 llanowar elves
4 birds of paradise
4 groundbreaker
4 timbermare
4 uktabi drake
4 scryb ranger
2 spectral force
4 harmonize
4 might of old krosa
4 evolution charm
2 stonewood invocation
notes: i run 4 copies of everything but invocations and the force, and it has been horribly consistant. pretty much every game i see a 1-drop and always have fatties to back em up on turns 2-3. i havent tested soilfuges, but i will soon (for those who do run it, how does has it worked out?) the drakes, with the help of early fatty beats and the pump-ups, become win conditions, which is incredible. stonewood invocation usually gets the trick done but i'd only go x2. the spectral force are potential game winners and have great synergy with the rangers, but i think more than 2 is overkill (mutual agreement between myself and my playtesting buddy). the rangers by themselves are amazing in that they can give you mana advantage, and they only get better with forces, but can stand alone perfectly fine. the harmonize are great.. i wouldnt go under 4 because by the time you play them, you need to recover from dropping virtually your whole hand turns 1-4, so after you beat the hell out of them then, you can recover hopefully for the win, or at least thats normally how it played out for me.
addressing splashes: I personally have no splashes as of yet.. since this is a primitive version of the deck, made explicitly for seeing how fast the deck would be, i obviously have improvments to make. i think black may be the rout to go as far as SB utility.. so when i figure out where i want this to go post-SB i will adjust my mana base accordingly. pendelhaven tho does not seem like a good idea, and i must say i am very fond of the safe haven ideas floating around...
On to the Tron match-up (only tested deck so far):
it basically went like this: if I had a decent hand, i casted smaller stuff, then tried to draw out his non-remand counters with rangers and such, saving breakers and timbermares for when he tapped out to play other stuff or draw. That, or i just went balls out and casted everything asap. If he stabilized and got out triskavi (plural of triskavus? whatever...) it pretty much spelled trouble. luckily tho, this deck is fast as hell.
Im anxious to playtest against aggro now, and soon i believe i will have results from Boros and blink riders matches, and perhaps an updated list and what i find, so till then, gents..
Carl Critchlow- anything he ever did
John Avon- same
Kev Walker- Deranged Hermit (thats one of my fav M:tG pics ever...his use of watercolors with ink is incredible)
Mark Zug- Gaea's Crade
Heather Hudson- Weatherseed Treefolk (no idea why)
John Howe- i havent seen much of his M:tG pics but i repect this guy tremendously for his work with Lord of the Rings conceptions
Greg Staples- everything of his
The Hildebrandt Brothers- just great artists...
Donato Giancola- for some obscure reason, his Forest #347 from MM is one of my favorite M:tG pics (if not my favorite altogether)... i guess its something about the shades of green and pastel tone and the space in the piece. great pic, that forest...
ya...soooo much good stuff, the art is originally why i got into the game, as i assume why many others did too:)
i was led to believe that was viable, is it not? now yall got me confused...
-MD arashi? I have seen a fairly even mix of MD and SB
-has anyone tried vial MD? it works surprisingly well in my build, but i wasnt able to go to regionals (worked at both of my jobs that day:( ), so all i have is FNM results to testify as of yet
-stampeding serow? is he worth it? i havent seen many builds running him, but he looks sooo awesome with EW.
thats it for now. i should really be testing myself instead of posting here, but i wont have much time to do so in the next week or so, so maybe i can get a head start here.
i have been told that the artifact version of this deck is very good, but one thing i dont see you run which i believe you should is shrapnel blast. it often deals the extra couple of damage you need to finish the game, and i dont see a time where you wouldnt be able to use it. you DO run titan..
another thing to consider is bosh. he's a house with lots artifacts or just alone.
concerning this list, i do think 12 LD spells are better. i'd make these changes:
-1 genju
+1 mox
-3 zo-zu
+3 pyroclasm
-4 bolt
+4 shock (much better than bolt now with rav gone....plus it hits players)
-1 magma jet
+1 demolish
what you could do to really make it interesting is replace the 4 sliths for 4 trinispheres. as silly as this may sound, last friday i had a mirror-match 1st round, and that was the difference between our decks. i am in the top 5 as far as skill goes at my FNM so i know how to play, and i even had good hands both the games it took him to tear me apart, but trinisphere killed me. he had jens too actually, and built a rapid mana count, but trinisphere can be deadly if you keep them under 3 lands if not the whole game then long enough screw their momentum, as is possible with ponza.
as for the SB, this is what i run:
3 culling scales
4 boil
4 shatter
3 sowing salt
1 pyroclasm
i don't really suggest you use that as your area may be different, but that is a fairly stable SB vs the current T2 scene.
on the decision between spear and courier, definately courier. spear i though would initially be good, but i dont like showing my opponent my whole hand and strategy with it on turn 1. or at all for that matter. courier works wonders...i think he is enough.
concerning the creatures (threats), this is what i run:
kira and he who hungers are primarily for U/G control. i have so many control decks (most being U/G) in my area i need to run x2 boseiju main in addition to kira and HWH.
as far as boseiju is concerned, @ KPdaly: i recommended adding 1 or 2 boseiju to ur MD, and you said it wasn't a suitable mana replacement. for me (hence the reason for suggesting it), it's not only a suitble replacement but a necessary addition. i think boseiju greatly improves the control match-up, and is extremely effective MD.
hence the horobi...
...it kills equipment builds.
i MD 2 boseiju (helps tremendously), and as you can see, SB 2. my area is majority U/G...which really sucks bc any mistakes can cause you the game, however small. not too many MUC (as of yet), but U/G is just a nuisance. also, MD decay helps very much. laughter i think i will have to incorporate MD or SB. which would you say is more effective? i will not have many opportunites to test before friday, so i can't say for sure personally.
3 cranial extraction
3 persecute
1 hinder (i MD 3 of em and 4 leak)
3 echoing truth
2 horobi (against WW)
2 rend flesh
1 boseiju
I MD 3 echoing decay, so more often than not the echoing truths replace those...very effective to say the least, and once i ran truth MD over decay, but decay helps in game 1 vs. U/G much more.
oh ya...horobi kills WW.
heres my build:
17 mountain
2 stalking stones
1 shinka
4 chrome mox
Creatures:
4 slith firewalker
4 arc-slogger
2 kumano, master yamabushi
2 furnace whelp
3 zo-zu the punisher
4 stone rain
4 molten rain
3 demolish
3 pulse of the forge
4 magma jet
4 pyrite spellbomb
tell me... how is crack the earth? i never tried it, but am considering it. it doesnt seem like advantage tho bc you are both loosing something, and i would assume you'd drop it early game to kill their first land drop. doesnt seem worth it when you can just start bombing their mana base on turn 2-whenever you run outta LD.
land screwed? that sucks, especially with low casting costs, 23 sources, and draw. your creature base looks solid too. i would do this tho to your decklist:
-courier over cloudskater. i think that courier is better bc you dont loose tempo (the land bounce) but i do run more control (4 leak, 3 hinder, 3 echoing decay).
these cards:
-1 Gifts Ungiven
-2 eerie procession
-2 Sift Through Sands
-2 Sensei's Divining Top
-1 or 2 tendo ice bridge
for
+1 or 2 boseiju
+3 zombify
+4 thirst for knowledge
on the above changes, thirst is better than sift. 3 cards in stead of 2, 2 threats in the 'yard instead of 1. you need more reanimation, and 4 zombify is better than 2 eerie procession. on boseiju, control may tear this up as i have found out many times (thats the deck i playtest against most), and MD protection against it helps.
-slumbering tora i have found is not as incredible as i thought. it does help in some situations, but post SB and some times MD, decks have a way to deal with it. i think they would do much better as x4 mana leaks.
well thats it. you may want to consider any of these changes tho..
what all decks have you played? and also, could you give some results/analysis of them? i think many here would benefit from testing results.
1 Shizo, death's storehouse
1 Minamo, school at water's edge
2 boseiju, who shelters all
3 city of brass
7 swamp
8 island
4 thought courier
1 kira, great glass spinner
1 he who hungers
1 kuro, pitlord
3 the unspeakable
3 iname, death aspect
4 mana leak
3 hinder
4 goryo's vengeance
3 zombify
1 beacon of unrest
3 gifts ungiven
3 echoing truth
4 thirst for knowledge
so thats the deck ive been testing. it does much better than previous builds i have tried. i SB 4 echoing decay for rude awakening, so thats covered. kira is protection against opposing echoing truths bc thats a pain when they truth your reanimation targets. he who hungers i know is not a beast in P/T, but he can help destroy G/U game 1...i found he is a great MD addition (as before, i ran him on the SB), and not just in the matches against G/U.
gifts ungiven i know has been getting some heat recently, but lemme say that this card rocks. if you need a creature, here is your line-up (i know its situational, but on average): iname, he who hungers, kuro, unspeakable. now tell me...either way, you get decent targets in the yard, so how is gifts a bad card? and if you need reanimation spells, i run 3 different ones for a reason, just pick beacon, vengeance and zombify then i usually pick a hinder or something. i am in full favor of this card.
one last thing. counters help so much. my games are becoming much more consistant with control (counters and truth/decay).
so thats where im at...give me some feedback or discussion or whatnot
-1 pulse
-1 prison
-1 bribery
+3 cop: red
you dont need the briberys that bad against tooth...you will be SBing in 4 quash, remember