Dandy_Lions;9647142']Not cube related, but the best story I've ever heard about this card:
Opponent T1: Mountain, Jackel Pup
Player T1: Mountain, go
Opponent T1: Mountain, Jackel Pup x2, Swing for 2.
Player: Firestorm, x=5. You, Me, Pup, Pup, Pup.
Opponent: *Jaw Drops*
Tempest T2 Baby
The card seems strong. You're by nature always at -1 card advantage with the card, but name another card that comes close to a 1 mana instant speed flame wave. (Har har, balance. Sure.)
I have been on the giving and receiving end of that exact situation. It has been a few years. I remember how happy I was to do it, and how angry I was when it happened to me.
High Priest of Penance WB
Creature - Human Cleric
Whenever High Priest of Penance leaves the battlefield, you may destroy target nonland permanent
2/1
Aurelia's Fury xRW
Instant
Choose 2 - Aurelia's Fury deals X damage divided as you choose among any number of target creatures. Tap X creatures. Aurelia's Fury deals X damage to target player. Players dealt damage this way can't cast noncreature spells this turn.
It's another incarnation of the punisher mechanic, but really pushed. Either you get Control Magic (a good card and a +1), or they discard two and you draw two, which is a +3 after the Ransom is sacrificed.
Edit. I misread the card. Still giving the opponent the choice is what makes it less than ideal.
Thanks. Gorilla Shaman is exactly the kind of card I was thinking of.
Some of these are cards that I already have in my 500, so I think they're all quite playable without power. I would have never thought of Molder Slug or Panoptic Mirror, though. Is Panoptic Mirror good for you because it is significantly fast, or because you have a high density of effects to abuse with it?
I would doubt that Panoptic Mirror, Sculpting Steel, Molder Slug, Mox Opal, or Isochron Scepter are going to add value when powering a cube. If they aren't strong enough to be included BEFORE adding power, they don't have any special interactions which make them suddenly much better than their value before — which would push them even further out of the cube.
Powered IS NOT the artifact deck. Putting in moxen doesn't suddenly make Mox Opal Playable. You would have to full-on support the artifact deck with Cards like Tezz, metalworker, Tolarian Academy, Goblin Welder, Trinket Mage, and really upsize (probably double) the artifact section of the cube to make that viable. Being powered helps the overall artifact count for such a deck, but generally those cards aren't going to get in on merit alone without being there to support the specific archetype. Molder Slug becomes a viable option when the artifact section is roughly double the size of a normal color section because most decks will have 6+ artifacts.
Powering a cube isn't a dramatic change unless as part of the change, other changes also are implemented. Not many cards, but each of them is a very high pick, and can lead to particularly unbalanced games if:
1) The speed increase garnered by using a mox provides significant advantage relative to status quo critical turn of the cube. — This is potentially a problem in slower cubes with lots of higher cost cards which generally favor midrange and control decks. Cubes with effective aggro support (Does aggro win roughly 33% of the time?) won't see as much of an issue, as fast decks explode, moxen or no. If your cube has room for 25+ cards that cost 6 mana or more, then you may be at risk here, as fast mana will let you jump straight past the early game and if opposing decks don't support enough early game interaction, matches will be one-sided.
2) Blue-based control is already the top archetype. If it already is, giving them access to Recall and Time Walk will catapult that archetype into the best deck, period. This is related to point 1, because other archetypes need to be able to deal with control decks, and the rock-paper-scissors model says that control beats midrange, midrange beats aggro, and aggro beats control. So adding more aggro support would help deal with that problem.
3) There isn't enough removal. Being able to power out a fatty several turns early is well and good, but moot if your opponent has doom blade to answer your turn 2 dragon. If games typically end up with both players having 4+ creatures in play and looking down creature stalemates, then there isn't enough removal or games are going really long. Cube isn't regular limited, it can (And for me it does) play like constructed. The way to get there is by cutting expensive creatures and including more removal.
In my 360 card powered cube, the only cards (other than the power themselves) which are included *because it is powered*, which in this case really means *because I just added 8 artifacts with CMC 1 or less*, are these:
I think this is just beyond the edge of printability as is. I could possibly see it as a 4/3. Being a 4/4 is just such a blatant upgrade from Gnarled Mass.
We have Great Sable Stag and Wolfir Avenger suggesting that you get a tad more than just a 3/3 for 1GG. And we have Loxodon Smiter, which costs 1WG, but also has another ability.
I don't see out out of the range of printing, but I also don't need such a card, nor do I see WotC giving stompy any more tools to compliment Thragtusk anytime soon.
And by the way, at no point do the charms "clog up slots". And durrhurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr at the multicolor comment..man, if no one is in U/W then Supreme Verdict must be the worst card ever and it's clogging up a spot..better take it out of the pack.
I think adding in all the charms in a neat idea, and while it isn't something I would do, it adds a particular character to a cube.
That said - there is a very valid point around multicolor card quality: If a card isn't good enough on its own to 'draw' players into the color pair, then it is essentially a dead card if nobody is in those colors.
An example: Ajani Vengeant is good enough that it could entice a drafter in one of the colors to pick it up and go into R/W. Or splash a 3rd color to support it and then look for additional splash cards as the draft progresses. Some of the charms, Rakdos charm in particular, aren't going to have that effect, which means they dillute the cube if nobody is in those colors. Now if you typically draft with 8 or more people, then the likelyhood of nobody being in a color pair is small, and in a very large cube, the opportunity cost of including Rakdos charm over what may be a 'higher powered' R/B card would be difficult to notice as it would be minor.
At the end of the day everyone has the freedom to manage their cube however they like, and I wholeheartedly support off-the wall cube ideas that stray from the standard 360 card, powered, best 360 cards ever thing that is fairly popular as they really expand the horizons of what Cube can do. But keep in mind that many of us do manage small, powerful cubes with extremely tight lists, and most of us (myself included) aren't willing to allow sub-par cards because they complete 'cycles' or if they are only playable in narrow situations. And because of that, we will be very passionate about even a single card inclusion/exclusion and section balance.
Just wanted to make a point before things turn into an argument here. Lets keep the discussion about the merits of Dimir Charm!
I think it is a top 5 Dimir card, not quite good enough to crack into my 360 card cube. I do have it on the list for when I expand though.
I was more excited about this card before I saw Boros Charm. This card probably is the 6th best Boros card now; (Behind Ajani, Figure, Helix, Charm, and Stronghold). And we haven't even seen the whole set yet.
I think this is somewhat worse than Helix, because it can't remove creatures. Situationally it can really shine, but on average, I think its not a consistent top performer.
My list of Nonbasic Fixing Land in the order I would include them. Not including the 5-color fixing lands (Evolving Wilds, City of Brass, etc.) The reason I Don't play Vivid? — I only have 30 of these 'Fixing Lands" in my cube, plus I have some of the first "Broken Cycle" competing for other guild slots.
I have been on the giving and receiving end of that exact situation. It has been a few years. I remember how happy I was to do it, and how angry I was when it happened to me.
Creature - Human Cleric
Whenever High Priest of Penance leaves the battlefield, you may destroy target nonland permanent
2/1
Aurelia's Fury xRW
Instant
Choose 2 - Aurelia's Fury deals X damage divided as you choose among any number of target creatures. Tap X creatures. Aurelia's Fury deals X damage to target player. Players dealt damage this way can't cast noncreature spells this turn.
Edit. I misread the card. Still giving the opponent the choice is what makes it less than ideal.
I would doubt that Panoptic Mirror, Sculpting Steel, Molder Slug, Mox Opal, or Isochron Scepter are going to add value when powering a cube. If they aren't strong enough to be included BEFORE adding power, they don't have any special interactions which make them suddenly much better than their value before — which would push them even further out of the cube.
Powered IS NOT the artifact deck. Putting in moxen doesn't suddenly make Mox Opal Playable. You would have to full-on support the artifact deck with Cards like Tezz, metalworker, Tolarian Academy, Goblin Welder, Trinket Mage, and really upsize (probably double) the artifact section of the cube to make that viable. Being powered helps the overall artifact count for such a deck, but generally those cards aren't going to get in on merit alone without being there to support the specific archetype. Molder Slug becomes a viable option when the artifact section is roughly double the size of a normal color section because most decks will have 6+ artifacts.
1) The speed increase garnered by using a mox provides significant advantage relative to status quo critical turn of the cube. — This is potentially a problem in slower cubes with lots of higher cost cards which generally favor midrange and control decks. Cubes with effective aggro support (Does aggro win roughly 33% of the time?) won't see as much of an issue, as fast decks explode, moxen or no. If your cube has room for 25+ cards that cost 6 mana or more, then you may be at risk here, as fast mana will let you jump straight past the early game and if opposing decks don't support enough early game interaction, matches will be one-sided.
2) Blue-based control is already the top archetype. If it already is, giving them access to Recall and Time Walk will catapult that archetype into the best deck, period. This is related to point 1, because other archetypes need to be able to deal with control decks, and the rock-paper-scissors model says that control beats midrange, midrange beats aggro, and aggro beats control. So adding more aggro support would help deal with that problem.
3) There isn't enough removal. Being able to power out a fatty several turns early is well and good, but moot if your opponent has doom blade to answer your turn 2 dragon. If games typically end up with both players having 4+ creatures in play and looking down creature stalemates, then there isn't enough removal or games are going really long. Cube isn't regular limited, it can (And for me it does) play like constructed. The way to get there is by cutting expensive creatures and including more removal.
In my 360 card powered cube, the only cards (other than the power themselves) which are included *because it is powered*, which in this case really means *because I just added 8 artifacts with CMC 1 or less*, are these:
Additionally, I consider the following cards to be 'effectively power' as well and wouldn't include them in an unpowered list.
We have Great Sable Stag and Wolfir Avenger suggesting that you get a tad more than just a 3/3 for 1GG. And we have Loxodon Smiter, which costs 1WG, but also has another ability.
I don't see out out of the range of printing, but I also don't need such a card, nor do I see WotC giving stompy any more tools to compliment Thragtusk anytime soon.
I hope it is fake and the real one is more potent.
I think adding in all the charms in a neat idea, and while it isn't something I would do, it adds a particular character to a cube.
That said - there is a very valid point around multicolor card quality: If a card isn't good enough on its own to 'draw' players into the color pair, then it is essentially a dead card if nobody is in those colors.
An example: Ajani Vengeant is good enough that it could entice a drafter in one of the colors to pick it up and go into R/W. Or splash a 3rd color to support it and then look for additional splash cards as the draft progresses. Some of the charms, Rakdos charm in particular, aren't going to have that effect, which means they dillute the cube if nobody is in those colors. Now if you typically draft with 8 or more people, then the likelyhood of nobody being in a color pair is small, and in a very large cube, the opportunity cost of including Rakdos charm over what may be a 'higher powered' R/B card would be difficult to notice as it would be minor.
At the end of the day everyone has the freedom to manage their cube however they like, and I wholeheartedly support off-the wall cube ideas that stray from the standard 360 card, powered, best 360 cards ever thing that is fairly popular as they really expand the horizons of what Cube can do. But keep in mind that many of us do manage small, powerful cubes with extremely tight lists, and most of us (myself included) aren't willing to allow sub-par cards because they complete 'cycles' or if they are only playable in narrow situations. And because of that, we will be very passionate about even a single card inclusion/exclusion and section balance.
Just wanted to make a point before things turn into an argument here. Lets keep the discussion about the merits of Dimir Charm!
I think it is a top 5 Dimir card, not quite good enough to crack into my 360 card cube. I do have it on the list for when I expand though.
At one time they were the same. Wizards went back and changed the Oracle text to better reflect the wording as printed on the card.
10 Duals (Tundra)
10 Fetches (Polluted Delta)
10 Shocks (Blood Crypt)
10 card "Broken Cycles":
Horizon Canopy
Creeping Tar Pit
Celestial Colonnade
Raging Ravine
Lavaclaw Reaches
Simic Growth Chamber
Fetid Heath
Llanawar Wastes
Izzet Boilerworks
Battlefield Forge
5 Vivid Lands (Vivid Marsh)
5 Mirage Fetches (Flood Plain)
+ 5 "Broken Cycle Lands"
10 "Broken Cycle" Lands
5 Tri-Lands (Arcane Sanctum)