If you go on The Source, you'll see people going back and forth on the Firemind vs no Firemind debate.
Some like having FSM(+1) and some probes(+2) vs. playset of Dream Halls (it is shaved because it doesn't play well with FSM) playset of Cunning Wish (you want to Firemind, so you want to maximize the DH-->CW -->FF --> WIN play) and the 2 CMC spot. Trickbind or Impulse usually. Trickbind is disliked (and loved) because it is useless MB just like FSM. Some say its useless, others sing its praises.
It ultimately comes down to preference.
Although I believe some have said its a metagame decision, for how much maverick you expect. The theory is that Teeg shuts off Wincons. Builds with FSM and probes can S&T in Omni, CW--> Elamdori's(sp?) Call tutor up FSM and cast him and win. Or S&T into FSM and win.
I was in same position, only without many of the duals I needed.
Unlike others, I will advocate Combo as a Valid deck choice. However I also have 2 other decks sleeved up: Burn and mono green 12 post (and if my wife is not playing, I also have access to Pox).
If I see bunches of guys I know that play UW decks, I shelve PSI and grab the Eldrazi. If I see bunches of RUG Delver floating around I play Pox if my wife isn't there or Burn, since I know I have better chances with either of those.
Budget decks are the best way to make sure you still love your primary deck. Nothing hurts worse than losing with the deck you love and starting to resent it.
I also second the advice on not trading staples. Use your primary deck and money to get your budget deck(s) combat worthy, then sink your magical winnings into getting more staples... Once you have a critical mass of staples, changing decks is just a hassle of re-sleeving.
I've been lurking on MTGSal for a while, but wanted a 2nd opinion now that I have my 1st blue Dual.
I like combo decks, or control decks that don't do the counter-top action.
I've built and taken apart the following:
Elves (Too little interaction)
Affinity (Too glass jaw)
Pox (was diuscard varient, kinda budget but did alright... had the disruption I liked, but didn't close out the game enough)
Charbelcher (meta has healthy amount of blue in it)
High Tide (No candles, takes forever to win... I don't want to apologize
everytime I win for taking 10 minutes)
Burn (Simplistic, and now given to wife)
Merfolk (Wife played it, and didn't appeal)
TES with shocklands (inability to get true duals made list not optimal)
Pact Spanish Inquisition (Would get to top tables, then face 2 blue decks in finals)
Robot Spanish Inquisition (Same as above, but had more protection and fizzled more)
Hulk Natural Order Combo: Loved it, but didn't win enough prior to DRS, which pretty well killed it.)
U/G Enchantress (Fell in love, then fell out quickily because I couldn't interact)
U/B Death Shadow (Loved it and the interactivity, but there's always a guy or 2 with burn... I don't feel like slitting my own throat unless it wins like PSI)
12post Mono-green (Mono-Green was sleeved up for when I see 12 miracles players in the room, and U/G doesn't seem to play right with me it seems.)
I've been collecting legacy staples for a while now, but for most part I have hard time getting $50 plus staples off people, and my allowance procludes buying them.
So these are my haves (Playsets unless otherwise marked):
Wastelands, Forces, Shardless Agent, Show and Tell, Flusterstorm, All Pacts, Natural Order, Stoneforge, 1 SoBaM, 1 SoFaF, 1 SoWaP, Batterskull, 1 Jitte, Bitterblossom, Thoughtseize, Lilliana, All Storm Staples.
Lands: All ZEN fetches, Wooded Foothills, All Shocklands, 1x Bayou, 1x Tropical Island, 1x Plateu, 1x Scrubland, Ancient Tomb, Vivids, Painlands, Filterlands Reflecting Pool.
I can't get Jaces, Candles, Tabernacle or pretty much anything over $35... I occassionally get deals but can't garenteee it...
I have no problem using shocks, but prefer to have 1x real dual to avoid unnecessary lifeloss...
My thought was hypergenesis once I get misdirections, but I'm worried it would be like other combo decks... Or maybe reanimator by getting entombs... Both are decks that can absorb the lifeloss of shocklands without being too hampered by it...
Other idea was based off having UG Duals and Fetches and BG Duals and Fetches... Either BUG Nic Fit or another BUG Combo Deck that I'm not tracking as existing... BUG Delver seemed like it would be too hard to do with shocks...
my problem with PiF is when i have accel in the yard, but no way to cast them, as the only thing i could do with my mana was pif. at least muse gives me more options. and yeah, it's happened many times to me.
What happens to me more is that I do not have the life to pay for another half rounded up to continue the gravy train safely...
yes I know that "safely" and PSI are like orange juice and toothpaste...
The resaon I have both IGG and PiF as mainboard is so that I can:
DR-> LED->IT for IGG-> IGG for DR, IT, LED.
DR->LED->IT for PiF -> PiF -> DR, IT for ToA. ToA for minimum of 22.
Needs the listed cards above and an additional way to generate 5 mana, and because of PiF, that probably means your GY.
Has anybody done serious testing for Past in Flames? It doesn't seem like the red would be a problem since we have no problems with getting blue for Slithermuse, but I'm not sure how it fits in the deck. If you would need to replace IGG with it or something like that.
I have. I personnaly have 1x PiF, 1x IGG and 1x Slithermuse as my mainboard flex slots.
I don't like EtW as much as Slithermuse, since I want to win earlier than 2-3 attack steps or after a Pact...
But PiF and IGG are musts for me, as you can do ridiculous things with either of them in the deck.
But as with anything YMMV.
Check out my previous posts to see Youtube videos of PSI in action. Post #444 if you're interested.
Now that the Words of Wind version of this deck has started to see more play does anyone who has practiced this version have any tips for starters?
What are some common easy loops you look to create with Cloud of Faeries, Enchantress and words? (how many enchantress effects/ growth effects do you look to have before you can go nuts?)
Any other tips would be greatly appreciated!
I've been goldfishing this bad boy for a bit, and there are some interactions that are non-intuitive.
First, my preference is to have at least 2, preferably 3 enchantress effects out when I go off. This is a goldfish or "my opponent is playing storm and I've got to kill him as quick as I can" mentality. Real magic is much mesier when you have to worry about spells resolving or overextending. My philosophy is to stall and buy time until my critical turn, and then I go off. During that time, I want 2-3 enchacntresses because this makes hitting enchantment drops and continuing the cycle, until I find enough pieces to go infinite.
My previous post gives the steps necessary to go infinite with the engine the deck is designed with, but here is is again:
2 lands in play with 3 mana enchantments between the 2 of them, 2x Enchantress effects in play, 1x Cloud of Fairies in hand, 1x enchantment in hand
Steps 3 thru 8 are repeated until they don't have a board.
That was with 5 mana off the 2 lands. At this point you need to have 1x CoF out so you can attack 20 times in a row, preferably having a second CoF in hand or E Witness... Most builds have gotten away from the Mindbreak Trap tech, so if you only have 1x creature, you're open for the opponent to go: land, Swords. land, bolt. Land Innocent Blood or otherwise messing up your ability to put the game away. If you have a second creature, bounce the CoF and attack with other creature... This means they have to get lucky twice, Land StP your other guy, you wipe their land off the board again and play CoF, and hopefully close the game out.
If you get to the point you have 6 mana off those 2 lands, you have infinite mana. Infinite mana means you also have infinite draw, since you omit the step that says: "Enchantress Effect replacement with WoW bouncing CoF" since you have no need for the mana and do need the draw. This is where you cycle through your library looking for living wish and grab emerkul. Cast him, then cast an enchantment and bounce him with WoW, recast him and cue up 20 turns, then attack into your opponents empty board FTW.
Non-Infinite tips:
Wasteland is a big part of legacy, do not put Wild Growth or Utopia Sprawl on Tropical Island/Breeding Pool. You have to put all your mana enchantments on only 2 lands if you aim is to go infinite. Spreading the love is good magic since killing any land with a growth on it is by definition a 2-for-1, but you need 5 mana out of 2 lands to do the loop infinite times, 6 if you want to go the fast, non-interactive kill.
Seal of Removal + Cloud of Fairies is your mana engine. Save the seals for when you are going off. Sometimes you can bounce an early goyf, but for the most part I use seals for CoF.
Seal of Removal + E. Witness is your forever enchantment engine. Eg: play seal and use it to bounce whatever, play E Witness to recover seal. Play seal and bounce witness, rinse and repeat. This is useful when you need to draw for your enchantresses but don't have any enchantments to use. 1UGG per cycle of this kinda sucks, but it beats not having anything to do.
I prefer to have the Chrome Mox in the deck, for the early game mana acceleration, and so when I need to bounce something I can bounce it and replay it(imprinting nothing is an option). WoW is not a may ability and is always symettrical, otherwise the deck wouldn't function.
the infinite loop is 2 enchantress effects cloud of fairies, words of wind, a land with 2 growths or sprawls on it and an enchantment to get the ball rolling . Step 1 tap land with growths on it and one other add 3+ mana . step 2 play cloud of fairies untap lands. step three same as #1 . step 4 play enchantment use the 2 floating mana to bounce 2 permanents to owners hands instead of drawing cards. you return cloud of fairies and the enchantment rinse and repeat till they have no more permanents then draw your deck make lots of mana and living wish for emrakul gg.
Close but not quite... You need to have 5 mana off of those 2 lands to go infinite...
Your loop looks self sustaining, but your logic breaks down at the end because you had the intial mana burst with everything untapped.
Your scenerio:
2 lands in play with 2 mana enchantments between the 2 of them, 2x Enchantress effects in play, 1x Cloud of Fairies in hand, 1x enchantment in hand (For this purpose I will use Elephant grass since it has no intrisic value in going off)
Step 1: Tap lands, UGXX (X being either G or U, doesn't matter)
Step 2: CoF(Cloud of Fairies), GX, untap 2 lands
Step 3: Tap lands, UGGXXX
Step 4: EG(Elephant Grass) UGXXX
Step 5: Enchantress Effect replacement with WoW(Words of Wind) bouncing EG, UGXX
Step 6: Enchantress Effect replacement with WoW bouncing CoF, UGX
Step 7: CoF Untap 2 lands, G leftover
Step 8: Tap lands, UGGXX
Once the engine gets going you will be able to do the same motions over and over again to become arbitrarily large. Notice Step 3 and Step 8? Same motion, "Tap lands after a CoF" meaning it is the first recurring part of the cycle but it is -1 mana. This means the entire cyle costs a single mana to do it over and over again. Which means this needs at least +1 more mana to become an arbitraily large event, i.e. another mana enchantment.
Actually this isn't a showstopper or bad magic, because if you run this out you would be setting the opponent back 6 permenents around T4-5, and you'll do the same next turn. Spoiler below is the rest of the loop showing the eventual collapse of the loop.
Step 8: Tap lands, UGGXX
Step 9: EG, UGXX
Step 10: Enchantress Effect replacement with WoW bouncing EG, UGX
Step 11: Enchantress Effect replacement with WoW bouncing CoF, UG
Step 12: CoF Untap 2 lands
Step 13: Tap lands, UGXX
Step 14: EG, UXX
Step 15: Enchantress Effect replacement with WoW bouncing EG, UX
Step 16: Enchantress Effect replacement with WoW bouncing CoF, U
This Spoiler is the infinite combo.
2 lands in play with 3 mana enchantments between the 2 of them, 2x Enchantress effects in play, 1x Cloud of Fairies in hand, 1x enchantment in hand
I'm curious, where was this list was found? I never seen it before.
Yostwiththemost is a burn player that posts on this forum a bunch. This list was from last july, page 296. He talked about going 10-5 on the GP with it.
I built it myself since I needed a good list for burn, and this gelled with what I had read about burn and was the last proven list.
I trust anything yost and Pat Sullivan says about burn, reccomend you do the same.
I'm looking at building a R/W deck since the cheapest set of ABU duals is Plateau and the Fetches were printed in Zendikar...
I do not have access to Onslaught fetches, so that will be one of my constraints.
I was thinking RW landfall, with Flagstones of Tolaira to push out ridiculous damage, probably with MoM backup.
Other options to look for are RW stoneblade, perhaps with light black splash for hand disruption. (Scrubland is still somewhat cheap and W/B fetches were in ZEN as well)
Does anyone have any experience with either of these archtypes, or have a combo deck in RW?
Created Games 6,7,8 and a reshoot of game 8. My camera ran out of memory in the first few minutes of game 8, so it is not just long enough to see a mulligan and a hand that eventually wins.
Game 8 take II explains how the game 8 actually was won, then plays a game for analysis.
I've been a long time lurker on MTGsalvation, putting a few points here and there every so often, but mainly being a sponge and absorbing what I can.
I love combo decks, my first pet in legacy was belcher until I read stuff about PSI, and I knew that I would have to trade for enough stuff to get it together.
My first legacy deck was combo elves, because I couldn't afford anything else, while I was assembling all the stuff for storm combo. It took me quite a while, but I have most of the stuff for much of what people would call legacy storm decks, minus blue dual lands.
Because I'm an army officer and my local legacy tournaments usually get out on Sunday at midnight to 1 am, I haven't had the opportunity to play Legacy nearly as much as I would like.
I goldfish when I can, and read everything I can about the archtype I love, which is combo.
I've made the decision that since I couldn't play combo officially until the next tournaments come around seattle, I would keep my mind and muscle memory sharp by doing the one thing that you can beyond goldfishing: teaching.
Most of you I've learned from here, so much of this will seem old hat to you, but not everyone learns best by seeing:
Some people need to see these things happen, or hear someone narrate this to them.
So I've created a youtube channel especially for Legacy Combo, and the first deck I'm doing on it is my favorite combo deck in legacy: PSI.
I hope you will keep me honest and show me lines of play I haven't seen, I've only been goldfishing this thing for a few months after dong quite a bit of goldfishing Bryant Cook's TES.
The life loss is why I moved from 2 Ad Nausum MD to only 1 MD and have an IGG both MD and SB... And I've made an excel sheet to track what minimums are necessary for IGG to be lethal. Mind numbing drudge work, but it gets the steps ingrained in your head.
Its been working out mostly, but wanted to put this out there since I'm sure there are others in the same boat as me.
I'm sure there have been games that would have won had I not gotten watery graves, but them's the breaks... Also you can fetch EOT and have them come into play tapped, but you lose velocity overall.
But considering I play only a few times a year competitively and goldfish otherwise, this seems to be the best of the "bad" situation.
Since people are trying out Modern and WOTC has said they’re going to be re-printing stuff for modern, what is the best manabase without the original duals?
Is it rainbow lands and Darkslick Shores? Darkslick Shores and fetches for basics to make the brainstorms and ponders best? Or a direct port of the Bryant Cox Manabase with RAV duals?
I went with:
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Watery Grave
1 Steam Vent
4 Gemstone Mine
2 City of Brass
Then I changed the MD from 2 AdN to 1 to accommodate a MD IGG, since I figure my life loss will be enough that IGG loops might be my best chance at killing them and not dying to AdN…
I have access to all the rainbow lands since I played dredge, and have access to all the Ravnica Duals and Zendikar Fetches, and figure many modern players are in the same boat as far as budget goes.
I know the correct configuration, but those 3 dual lands cost as much as the rest of the deck put together and are a step too far for someone who gets to play legacy so rarely…
Had this one out of my binder, but cut it... original thinking was thatWild Research can't get Fabricate because its a sorcery. Since most my good stuff is an artifact, I may have to reconsider...
She is going to be coming in the deck, now I've just got to figure out how... I've read Gaka's primer and it influenced me greatly, but I didn't want to steal everything from that deck too...
Razor Hippogriff
White Creature, and recurs my theme and gains life... Probably the most efficent of the bunch...
Tezzeret the Seeker
When I grab my Jace 1.0 once it rotates, I'll grab a copy of this too and grab a Vesner as well... Couldn't justify a single planeswalker by his lonesome, but if its yet another theme I can deal with it...
Buried Ruin
My colored mana is already pretty stretched, probably should cut Thawing Glaciers for this...
If you go on The Source, you'll see people going back and forth on the Firemind vs no Firemind debate.
Some like having FSM(+1) and some probes(+2) vs. playset of Dream Halls (it is shaved because it doesn't play well with FSM) playset of Cunning Wish (you want to Firemind, so you want to maximize the DH-->CW -->FF --> WIN play) and the 2 CMC spot. Trickbind or Impulse usually. Trickbind is disliked (and loved) because it is useless MB just like FSM. Some say its useless, others sing its praises.
It ultimately comes down to preference.
Although I believe some have said its a metagame decision, for how much maverick you expect. The theory is that Teeg shuts off Wincons. Builds with FSM and probes can S&T in Omni, CW--> Elamdori's(sp?) Call tutor up FSM and cast him and win. Or S&T into FSM and win.
Its about having enough perpetual mana sources to make sure that your opponents counterspells get ground out.
So you have multiple lands for multiple belcher activations.
Unlike others, I will advocate Combo as a Valid deck choice. However I also have 2 other decks sleeved up: Burn and mono green 12 post (and if my wife is not playing, I also have access to Pox).
If I see bunches of guys I know that play UW decks, I shelve PSI and grab the Eldrazi. If I see bunches of RUG Delver floating around I play Pox if my wife isn't there or Burn, since I know I have better chances with either of those.
Budget decks are the best way to make sure you still love your primary deck. Nothing hurts worse than losing with the deck you love and starting to resent it.
I also second the advice on not trading staples. Use your primary deck and money to get your budget deck(s) combat worthy, then sink your magical winnings into getting more staples... Once you have a critical mass of staples, changing decks is just a hassle of re-sleeving.
I like combo decks, or control decks that don't do the counter-top action.
I've built and taken apart the following:
Elves (Too little interaction)
Affinity (Too glass jaw)
Pox (was diuscard varient, kinda budget but did alright... had the disruption I liked, but didn't close out the game enough)
Charbelcher (meta has healthy amount of blue in it)
High Tide (No candles, takes forever to win... I don't want to apologize
everytime I win for taking 10 minutes)
Burn (Simplistic, and now given to wife)
Merfolk (Wife played it, and didn't appeal)
TES with shocklands (inability to get true duals made list not optimal)
Pact Spanish Inquisition (Would get to top tables, then face 2 blue decks in finals)
Robot Spanish Inquisition (Same as above, but had more protection and fizzled more)
Hulk Natural Order Combo: Loved it, but didn't win enough prior to DRS, which pretty well killed it.)
U/G Enchantress (Fell in love, then fell out quickily because I couldn't interact)
U/B Death Shadow (Loved it and the interactivity, but there's always a guy or 2 with burn... I don't feel like slitting my own throat unless it wins like PSI)
12post Mono-green (Mono-Green was sleeved up for when I see 12 miracles players in the room, and U/G doesn't seem to play right with me it seems.)
I've been collecting legacy staples for a while now, but for most part I have hard time getting $50 plus staples off people, and my allowance procludes buying them.
So these are my haves (Playsets unless otherwise marked):
Wastelands, Forces, Shardless Agent, Show and Tell, Flusterstorm, All Pacts, Natural Order, Stoneforge, 1 SoBaM, 1 SoFaF, 1 SoWaP, Batterskull, 1 Jitte, Bitterblossom, Thoughtseize, Lilliana, All Storm Staples.
Lands: All ZEN fetches, Wooded Foothills, All Shocklands, 1x Bayou, 1x Tropical Island, 1x Plateu, 1x Scrubland, Ancient Tomb, Vivids, Painlands, Filterlands Reflecting Pool.
I can't get Jaces, Candles, Tabernacle or pretty much anything over $35... I occassionally get deals but can't garenteee it...
I have no problem using shocks, but prefer to have 1x real dual to avoid unnecessary lifeloss...
My thought was hypergenesis once I get misdirections, but I'm worried it would be like other combo decks... Or maybe reanimator by getting entombs... Both are decks that can absorb the lifeloss of shocklands without being too hampered by it...
Other idea was based off having UG Duals and Fetches and BG Duals and Fetches... Either BUG Nic Fit or another BUG Combo Deck that I'm not tracking as existing... BUG Delver seemed like it would be too hard to do with shocks...
So what would you build with this cardpool?
What happens to me more is that I do not have the life to pay for another half rounded up to continue the gravy train safely...
yes I know that "safely" and PSI are like orange juice and toothpaste...
The resaon I have both IGG and PiF as mainboard is so that I can:
DR-> LED->IT for IGG-> IGG for DR, IT, LED.
DR->LED->IT for PiF -> PiF -> DR, IT for ToA. ToA for minimum of 22.
Needs the listed cards above and an additional way to generate 5 mana, and because of PiF, that probably means your GY.
I have. I personnaly have 1x PiF, 1x IGG and 1x Slithermuse as my mainboard flex slots.
I don't like EtW as much as Slithermuse, since I want to win earlier than 2-3 attack steps or after a Pact...
But PiF and IGG are musts for me, as you can do ridiculous things with either of them in the deck.
But as with anything YMMV.
Check out my previous posts to see Youtube videos of PSI in action. Post #444 if you're interested.
I've been goldfishing this bad boy for a bit, and there are some interactions that are non-intuitive.
First, my preference is to have at least 2, preferably 3 enchantress effects out when I go off. This is a goldfish or "my opponent is playing storm and I've got to kill him as quick as I can" mentality. Real magic is much mesier when you have to worry about spells resolving or overextending. My philosophy is to stall and buy time until my critical turn, and then I go off. During that time, I want 2-3 enchacntresses because this makes hitting enchantment drops and continuing the cycle, until I find enough pieces to go infinite.
My previous post gives the steps necessary to go infinite with the engine the deck is designed with, but here is is again:
2 lands in play with 3 mana enchantments between the 2 of them, 2x Enchantress effects in play, 1x Cloud of Fairies in hand, 1x enchantment in hand
Step 1: Tap lands, UGXXX
Step 2: CoF Untap 2 lands, GXX.
Step 3: Tap lands, UGGXXXXX
Step 4: EG, UGXXXXX
Step 5: Enchantress Effect replacement with WoW bouncing EG, UGXXXX
Step 6: Enchantress Effect replacement with WoW bouncing CoF, UGXXX
Step 7: CoF Untap 2 lands, GXX
Step 8: Tap lands, UGGXXXXX
Steps 3 thru 8 are repeated until they don't have a board.
That was with 5 mana off the 2 lands. At this point you need to have 1x CoF out so you can attack 20 times in a row, preferably having a second CoF in hand or E Witness... Most builds have gotten away from the Mindbreak Trap tech, so if you only have 1x creature, you're open for the opponent to go: land, Swords. land, bolt. Land Innocent Blood or otherwise messing up your ability to put the game away. If you have a second creature, bounce the CoF and attack with other creature... This means they have to get lucky twice, Land StP your other guy, you wipe their land off the board again and play CoF, and hopefully close the game out.
If you get to the point you have 6 mana off those 2 lands, you have infinite mana. Infinite mana means you also have infinite draw, since you omit the step that says: "Enchantress Effect replacement with WoW bouncing CoF" since you have no need for the mana and do need the draw. This is where you cycle through your library looking for living wish and grab emerkul. Cast him, then cast an enchantment and bounce him with WoW, recast him and cue up 20 turns, then attack into your opponents empty board FTW.
Non-Infinite tips:
Wasteland is a big part of legacy, do not put Wild Growth or Utopia Sprawl on Tropical Island/Breeding Pool. You have to put all your mana enchantments on only 2 lands if you aim is to go infinite. Spreading the love is good magic since killing any land with a growth on it is by definition a 2-for-1, but you need 5 mana out of 2 lands to do the loop infinite times, 6 if you want to go the fast, non-interactive kill.
Seal of Removal + Cloud of Fairies is your mana engine. Save the seals for when you are going off. Sometimes you can bounce an early goyf, but for the most part I use seals for CoF.
Seal of Removal + E. Witness is your forever enchantment engine. Eg: play seal and use it to bounce whatever, play E Witness to recover seal. Play seal and bounce witness, rinse and repeat. This is useful when you need to draw for your enchantresses but don't have any enchantments to use. 1UGG per cycle of this kinda sucks, but it beats not having anything to do.
I prefer to have the Chrome Mox in the deck, for the early game mana acceleration, and so when I need to bounce something I can bounce it and replay it(imprinting nothing is an option). WoW is not a may ability and is always symettrical, otherwise the deck wouldn't function.
Close but not quite... You need to have 5 mana off of those 2 lands to go infinite...
Your loop looks self sustaining, but your logic breaks down at the end because you had the intial mana burst with everything untapped.
Your scenerio:
2 lands in play with 2 mana enchantments between the 2 of them, 2x Enchantress effects in play, 1x Cloud of Fairies in hand, 1x enchantment in hand (For this purpose I will use Elephant grass since it has no intrisic value in going off)
Step 1: Tap lands, UGXX (X being either G or U, doesn't matter)
Step 2: CoF(Cloud of Fairies), GX, untap 2 lands
Step 3: Tap lands, UGGXXX
Step 4: EG(Elephant Grass) UGXXX
Step 5: Enchantress Effect replacement with WoW(Words of Wind) bouncing EG, UGXX
Step 6: Enchantress Effect replacement with WoW bouncing CoF, UGX
Step 7: CoF Untap 2 lands, G leftover
Step 8: Tap lands, UGGXX
Once the engine gets going you will be able to do the same motions over and over again to become arbitrarily large. Notice Step 3 and Step 8? Same motion, "Tap lands after a CoF" meaning it is the first recurring part of the cycle but it is -1 mana. This means the entire cyle costs a single mana to do it over and over again. Which means this needs at least +1 more mana to become an arbitraily large event, i.e. another mana enchantment.
Actually this isn't a showstopper or bad magic, because if you run this out you would be setting the opponent back 6 permenents around T4-5, and you'll do the same next turn. Spoiler below is the rest of the loop showing the eventual collapse of the loop.
Step 8: Tap lands, UGGXX
Step 9: EG, UGXX
Step 10: Enchantress Effect replacement with WoW bouncing EG, UGX
Step 11: Enchantress Effect replacement with WoW bouncing CoF, UG
Step 12: CoF Untap 2 lands
Step 13: Tap lands, UGXX
Step 14: EG, UXX
Step 15: Enchantress Effect replacement with WoW bouncing EG, UX
Step 16: Enchantress Effect replacement with WoW bouncing CoF, U
This Spoiler is the infinite combo.
2 lands in play with 3 mana enchantments between the 2 of them, 2x Enchantress effects in play, 1x Cloud of Fairies in hand, 1x enchantment in hand
Step 1: Tap lands, UGXXX
Step 2: CoF Untap 2 lands, GXX.
Step 3: Tap lands, UGGXXXXX
Step 4: EG, UGXXXXX
Step 5: Enchantress Effect replacement with WoW bouncing EG, UGXXXX
Step 6: Enchantress Effect replacement with WoW bouncing CoF, UGXXX
Step 7: CoF Untap 2 lands, GXX
Step 8: Tap lands, UGGXXXXX
Steps 3 thru 8 are repeated until they don't have a board.
Yostwiththemost is a burn player that posts on this forum a bunch. This list was from last july, page 296. He talked about going 10-5 on the GP with it.
I built it myself since I needed a good list for burn, and this gelled with what I had read about burn and was the last proven list.
I trust anything yost and Pat Sullivan says about burn, reccomend you do the same.
I do not have access to Onslaught fetches, so that will be one of my constraints.
I was thinking RW landfall, with Flagstones of Tolaira to push out ridiculous damage, probably with MoM backup.
Other options to look for are RW stoneblade, perhaps with light black splash for hand disruption. (Scrubland is still somewhat cheap and W/B fetches were in ZEN as well)
Does anyone have any experience with either of these archtypes, or have a combo deck in RW?
Game 1 Link has been restored in previous post.
Created Games 6,7,8 and a reshoot of game 8. My camera ran out of memory in the first few minutes of game 8, so it is not just long enough to see a mulligan and a hand that eventually wins.
Game 8 take II explains how the game 8 actually was won, then plays a game for analysis.
Links below:
Game 6:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrGCihHLGHo&feature=plcp
Game 7:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCNy-X12zl0&feature=plcp
Game 8, that got cut off:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iq9lGSyBDik&feature=plcp
Game 8 take II:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kk4rOlPq7Fw&feature=plcp
I love combo decks, my first pet in legacy was belcher until I read stuff about PSI, and I knew that I would have to trade for enough stuff to get it together.
My first legacy deck was combo elves, because I couldn't afford anything else, while I was assembling all the stuff for storm combo. It took me quite a while, but I have most of the stuff for much of what people would call legacy storm decks, minus blue dual lands.
Because I'm an army officer and my local legacy tournaments usually get out on Sunday at midnight to 1 am, I haven't had the opportunity to play Legacy nearly as much as I would like.
I goldfish when I can, and read everything I can about the archtype I love, which is combo.
I've made the decision that since I couldn't play combo officially until the next tournaments come around seattle, I would keep my mind and muscle memory sharp by doing the one thing that you can beyond goldfishing: teaching.
Most of you I've learned from here, so much of this will seem old hat to you, but not everyone learns best by seeing:
Some people need to see these things happen, or hear someone narrate this to them.
So I've created a youtube channel especially for Legacy Combo, and the first deck I'm doing on it is my favorite combo deck in legacy: PSI.
I hope you will keep me honest and show me lines of play I haven't seen, I've only been goldfishing this thing for a few months after dong quite a bit of goldfishing Bryant Cook's TES.
Links will be below.
Kirby
Kirby's Komboes:
Intro to the Series
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDSOVPKgvgg&feature=plcp
PSI Deck Intro
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmYgLFEwWV0&feature=plcp
Hand 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54smKsolFRk&feature=plcp
Hand 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1EJgQ-IzBo&feature=plcp
Hand 3:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKi36Dzs3VM&feature=plcp
Hand 4:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9b1MpWA8B-g&feature=plcp
Hand 5:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5f58LLxGD2E&feature=plcp
Its been working out mostly, but wanted to put this out there since I'm sure there are others in the same boat as me.
I'm sure there have been games that would have won had I not gotten watery graves, but them's the breaks... Also you can fetch EOT and have them come into play tapped, but you lose velocity overall.
But considering I play only a few times a year competitively and goldfish otherwise, this seems to be the best of the "bad" situation.
Is it rainbow lands and Darkslick Shores? Darkslick Shores and fetches for basics to make the brainstorms and ponders best? Or a direct port of the Bryant Cox Manabase with RAV duals?
I went with:
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Watery Grave
1 Steam Vent
4 Gemstone Mine
2 City of Brass
Then I changed the MD from 2 AdN to 1 to accommodate a MD IGG, since I figure my life loss will be enough that IGG loops might be my best chance at killing them and not dying to AdN…
I have access to all the rainbow lands since I played dredge, and have access to all the Ravnica Duals and Zendikar Fetches, and figure many modern players are in the same boat as far as budget goes.
I know the correct configuration, but those 3 dual lands cost as much as the rest of the deck put together and are a step too far for someone who gets to play legacy so rarely…
Thanks for ideas... Most I've already looked at and discarded before making the deck
Fabricate
Had this one out of my binder, but cut it... original thinking was thatWild Research can't get Fabricate because its a sorcery. Since most my good stuff is an artifact, I may have to reconsider...
Hannah, Ship's Navigator
She is going to be coming in the deck, now I've just got to figure out how... I've read Gaka's primer and it influenced me greatly, but I didn't want to steal everything from that deck too...
Razor Hippogriff
White Creature, and recurs my theme and gains life... Probably the most efficent of the bunch...
Tezzeret the Seeker
When I grab my Jace 1.0 once it rotates, I'll grab a copy of this too and grab a Vesner as well... Couldn't justify a single planeswalker by his lonesome, but if its yet another theme I can deal with it...
Buried Ruin
My colored mana is already pretty stretched, probably should cut Thawing Glaciers for this...