I'm going on 22 in a month, I've been playing since Ice Age came out... Which was god knows how long ago. I THINK I've been playing for about 12-13 years. I'd have to look it up.
Mainly because it's been a VERY hyped archetype since Dusk Urchins and Beseech the Queen have been spoiled. I'm not saying it doesn't need results, and I'll stress again that it isn't going to be there indefinitely. After this weekend is over, CHANCES ARE it will be shunned out of competitive.
As far as moving it to Decks for Critique, that forum is being worked on at the moment. I'm going to be coming up with some new rules VERY shortly (I'm finished the draft, i just need to go over them a couple more times). I'm hoping to implement some changes that will postitively effect both Decks for Critique (as it is called now) and the Competitive Forums, making it MUCH more of an "inbetween" than it is now.
Since I'm going to be mucking around with the forum in the next little while, I have little inclination for doing things that I'll end up having to undo afterwards.
People are missing the whole point of Mythic Rares... MaRo already stated that it's not going to be the "bomb" rares that end up being mythic, it'll be the "Big" rares, like the Planeswalkers, Legends, Epic Sorceries would fall under this as well. The truly BIG cards (which are often unwieldy in competitive) are what's going to become Mythic Rares.
And think about it, what are the most expensive cards in Standard right now? Thoughtseize? Bitterblossom? Tarmogoyf? Mutavault? None of these cards scream "BIG" or "UNIQUE"... They are all utility cards, to which he mentioned that they are staying regular rares.
I originally was going "WTF" also... But after thinking about it, I don't think it's so bad. There are only 15 Mythic rares, and I doubt they'll keep expanding (i.e. this is the only rare change we'll have for at least a long while) into Ultra Super Secret One in a Million to the Power of Kittybread Rare. It's 15 cards that TIMMY is most likely to get most excited about. Some of those cards may be tournament playable, and yes, they will command a certain price tag, but the rest of the cards (of which manabases should really be mentioned... think of how much money people spend on LAND for their competitive decks).
And since the frequency of all the rares is increasing as a result, think about it this way: Your store is going to be way more well stocked than usual with EVERYTHING. I'm seeing this as a plus guys.
It's just like the new card face, people cried "MURDER!" when that came up... This is no difference. Believe me, this is a decision that didn't come lightly to WotC, and if they decided to do it they did it because they think it will help bring more players in, not shove players out. And I highly doubt that they are going to nerf the community of players that have been playing for a long time. They aren't stupid guys, they want to keep us too.
And as others have mentioned, the rarity of the game has no basis for comparing it with Yu-Gi-Oh. That was just a poorly designed (in my opinion) game that attracted flocks of kids to it with a TV show. It was fundamentally flawed to begin with, Magic is a completely different ballgame. Please stop saying this game is becoming Yu-Gi-Oh, it's not.
The main reasoning behind MBC being there and Kithkin not is that Kithkin basically got 0 additional tools to work with, wheras MBC has the chance to evolve. Believe me, it's not a permanent placement it has there. Every time a big tournament comes up, we get closer and closer to being able to truly define the metagame.
But Kithkin were hardly a nuisance before, why would that have changed when all the other decks have evolved and even gotten cards that would help against it (i.e. Firespout)
That's the large rationale for giving MBC and Swans a chance, and not Kithkin. Kithkin already got it's chance, and it didn't succeed. These two decks are being given a chance, and I have yet to see whether they will truly succeed or not.
The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of Mythic rares SO LONG as they pull it off correctly (i.e. not throwing ALL the bomb-chase rares as mythic rares, which he said they wouldn't do)
As said, the staple constructed rares are rarely the flashy ones, which as MaRo mentioned, are the ones becoming "Mythic". Sure, a couple of them might be tournament playable, but will it shoot the price right out of the sky? I doubt it.
I think that naysayers need to read some of the well thought out posts that some others have already made... There is some seriously solid and strong logic behind all of it.
And to those claiming Magic is becoming YuGiOh... Keep in mind that the physical game of Magic is far more advanced, dynamic and interesting than Yu-Gi-Oh can ever be. The reason Yu-Gi-Oh never overtook magic (same as pokemon) is simply because it doesn't have nearly as much design space, nor does it have the structure of play. It's the GAME ITSELF that has repulsed players from it, not the rarity of the cards.
You don't see world champs who don't really care about how much their deck costs like John Finkel playing Yu-Gi-Oh. Let's be real here... There's a massive difference between games.
Thread closed. This has no impact on the current Standard environment whatsoever for the time being. Feel free to discuss this when Shards of Alara becomes Standard legal. Until then, keep it in the Speculation forum.
I can see this playing out into everyone's favour to be honest.
Think about it... Yeah there will be SOME mystic rares that are going to be good that everyone will be looking to get. That being said, since he stated that most of the utility/staple rares will be kept where they are, how is this bad? To me, this is almost like saying "All the solid rares that get expensive because everyone needs them become more available, and a lot of timmytastic rares that you don't necessarily want to see are going to show up less frequently."
I mean, he mentioned cards that are legendary basically... BIG sorceries and instants. This just screams "TIMAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY" to me... As said, there will be SOME that will be highly sought after, but this makes life easier for everyone. True timmies will be jazzed that they got their "mystic rare", spikes get their staples more easily, and johnny... well, okay, johnny may have just gotten screwed.
And even if Planeswalkers are all mystic rares, it doesn't really change much in my view. There's only one planeswalker right now seeing regular play, and that's Garruk. At least it's not 4-5 planeswalkers that everyone is pawing over.
Get Magic Workstation, download all the latest new cards, and build lots of decks.
Trust me, you go through the ENTIRE database enough times, you start to remember what everything is. Just decide to find a card, and try and build a good deck around it. Sooner or later, you might strike some gold (I think I did for this years' regionals... we'll see) and most of the time you won't, but hey, you get to have fun in the meantime and as said, you'll learn ALL the cards pretty quickly that way.
Oddly enough, Ravinca really ticked me off and caused me to quit magic until it rotated out basically... Don't ask me why, but I just didn't find it terribly exciting/inventive or anything... Not saying the cards were bad or anything, they just didn't really interest me... lol.
Limited is boatloads of fun... Often it's the best times you'll have when playing Magic, since sometimes it gets so random and the game is always different. Magic ultimately isn't about the money, it's about the experience I've had some of the most fun playing magic when playing with hyper budget decks in a basement with my buddies... When you slam Venom onto a Grizzly Bears, you can't help but laugh a lot.
Do not put [Official] tags on a thread, for starters. Second of all, only moderators can post threads in the Competitive forum. Moved to Decks for Critique.
I don't personally know of any sites that are exclusively Type II... It's such a popular format that it's almost the basis for any Magic site, anything else is just gravy.
I'm glad you feel that way about the forum (and your friends too). I'm working towards making it even better, and I'm going to try and get more frequent online tournaments going on just for everyones enjoyment/experience/playtesting. Sometimes in order to really gauge how good your deck is, you need to pit it against the gauntlet... I think it'll help everyone become better players in general.
As said, we (the mods) try our best to stay on top of things here. I know I devote many hours a day just reading threads, going through posts, editing, etc... So it's good to hear that there are those who appreciate it (I know that I personally get my fair share of hate mail... but I didn't sign on to the job expecting to be hyper popular :p).
So, I'll try and keep it up! If I can answer your question, I'm hoping that this place will be *THE* place for Type II discussion on the internet (that's my goal anyway).
I mean, it partially depends on what timeframe we're talking about... If we're talking about way back when (such as Footloose), then yeah, she was bloody hot back then. Now? Not so much... Good lookin', don't get me wrong, but I agree with Elric in that she's a little too skinny for my liking. Her face doesn't bother me SO much, it's really just that she's getting a little older and still trying to stay skinny/hot but not really pulling it off to any great extent is what bothers me the most.
Hey guys! We've had a lot of work to do in this forum for the past week and a bit, and I am very pleased to say that the amount of spam/flaming has definitely decreased significantly over the course of it. A lot of people have shown a lot of improvement, and I hope that everyone will follow their example and the examples set by those who managed to keep entirely to the rules throughout all this.
I was very impressed and thankful for the number of people who reported posts when they saw them, and I hope that they (and others like them) will continue to report posts. Although I try to read every single thread every day, sometimes I do miss stuff and having certain posts be reported helps make my job as a moderator SO much easier. So please guys, keep clicking the "Report Post" button when you see something.
It did not make me feel good to hand out so many infractions guys, but it had to be done. Things have calmed down more or less, and with the new threads in Competitive, this has helped promote new discussion/critique and cooperation with many of the users. My objective is still to make this forum *THE* place for Competitive talk about Magic, and I think we're a step closer.
So, the "Crackdown" is now officially over. I would like to stress that I will not be particularly easier on any of the topics (of which I will re-list so that everyone is abundantly clear about what is expected), however, if you are a first time offender you probably won't get an infraction unless it's particularly bad. This is mainly in regards to the newer users to the forum, as they haven't quite figured out all the rules/how things work here yet. For the veteran users, I base whether I warn/infract entirely on prior history. So if you have received spam warnings/infractions in the past, don't expect me to give you any breaks if you spam again.
But since everyone seems to have been trying to make an effort, I'm hoping that it shouldn't be so much of a problem now :). Just for everyone's reference, even though the "Crackdown" is over, I'm still going to be looking hard for any posts that violate the forum rules. The main types of posts that I'm looking for are the following:
Spam - If a post offers nothing constructive towards a thread, it is deemed spam. If the topic veers off a little bit, that's fine. But talking about a football game for instance would be spam in the Faeries thread. This principle can be applied in MANY regards. So as said, make sure your post is ON TOPIC and CONSTRUCTIVE. Posts that just say "I agree" are spam. If you have an opinion, talk about some of the logic behind your opinion as opposed to just stating it.
Double Posting - Although I categorize double-posting in the same spot as spam, some people don't realize this. Double posting is an offense, and this is one of the issues we have been having as of late. Use the EDIT button instead of double posting. If you feel you need to "bump" a thread, here's a little trick that everyone will appreciate: Copy the contents of your post. Then, delete the post and repost it. Do not ABUSE this... If a thread has been dormant for a long time, it will be considered necroing and will be infracted.
Flaming - Verbal (well, more like written) attacks against other users are not tolerated in ANY form. There's a saying I like to stick to when I'm having an argument with another user: Bash the deck, not the user. This is a game with a lot of variety, a lot of different ideas. If you feel a person is wrong, explain WHY. Do *not* start calling that person a "n00b" "idiot" "asshat" whatever. This all falls under flaming. We are going to be VERY strict about this. If you feel a person is trolling or flat out flaming, hit the REPORT POST button and let us deal with it. If you participate in the flaming, you will be infracted as well, whether you are right or not.
Trolling - If you don't think a deck belongs in Competitive, or that a certain card/deck choice is bad, DO NOT PROVOKE A FLAME WAR by stating your opinion in an aggressive way. There are nice ways of saying things. Take this as an example:
"Faeries suck hardcore. Anyone who plays them is a n00b."(Obviously Trolling)
- OR -
"I don't think Faeries is a good choice to play... There is so much metagame hate out there I don't see it as being very competitive."
(Please note, those are not my personal feelings. I'm using an extreme example to emphasize my point. Notice how differently each statement comes across.)
As shown, there are constructive ways to make your opinion clear without provoking other users.
Deck Tags - These are MANDATORY. If you do not know how to use them, instructions can be found here. The walkthrough provided is very detailed, and you should have NO problem utilizing them. Deck tags are important for everyone, because sometimes not everyone can remember exactly what a certain card does and having it auto-carded is an immense help. That, and the simple fact of the matter is that it makes posts cleaner and easier to read. This benefits EVERYONE, and will likely provide you more feedback when asking for opinions on your deck.
Backseat Moderating - The time it takes to write a useless post as to what the poster did wrong, you could have reported the post in half the time, had the issue dealt with more quickly by the mods, and not have received an infraction for yourself in the meantime.
So again, thanks guys for putting in the effort, and a VERY special thank-you to each user that reported posts on an almost daily basis. I really really appreciate it, and I hope you all continue to do so. As said, sometimes I miss stuff or I have to go to work/etc. and having those posts reported allows me to get to the heart of the matter MUCH more quickly. So keep up the good work!
Well the way I see Type II at the moment, the best deck that beats BASICALLY everything (with varying degrees of success mind you, it's not all cakewalks by any means) is definitely Faeries (obviously).
Below that, there is Merfolk which tend to do well vs. Faeries/Reveillark. There's G/B Elves which tend to do well against Merfolk/other forms of aggro in general, and fairly strong against Faeries (keep in mind, this is all relative... it's not like they have FANTASTIC games against Fae).
RDW hasn't really seen much T8 action as far as I can tell... Although I've heard time and again that it *is* good against Faeries, it seems like the Reveillark matchup is SERIOUSLY lacking, and against most of the rest of the field, it's not particularly powerful. That being said, if you haven't seen it, Zvi Mowshowitz's R/G "bash" looks very solid to me.
Reveillark, as mentioned, is pretty strong against most of the field aside from Faeries/Merfolk. If you're a good Reveillark player, I would probably suggest you take your build to Regionals as you will be the most comfortable with it, you'll know the matchups a little better and it does have a very solid game vs. most of the field.
It all depends on how you set up your deck too... There's obviously a lot of variation between builds which allows you to tune somewhat to your metagame.
As far as moving it to Decks for Critique, that forum is being worked on at the moment. I'm going to be coming up with some new rules VERY shortly (I'm finished the draft, i just need to go over them a couple more times). I'm hoping to implement some changes that will postitively effect both Decks for Critique (as it is called now) and the Competitive Forums, making it MUCH more of an "inbetween" than it is now.
Since I'm going to be mucking around with the forum in the next little while, I have little inclination for doing things that I'll end up having to undo afterwards.
And think about it, what are the most expensive cards in Standard right now? Thoughtseize? Bitterblossom? Tarmogoyf? Mutavault? None of these cards scream "BIG" or "UNIQUE"... They are all utility cards, to which he mentioned that they are staying regular rares.
I originally was going "WTF" also... But after thinking about it, I don't think it's so bad. There are only 15 Mythic rares, and I doubt they'll keep expanding (i.e. this is the only rare change we'll have for at least a long while) into Ultra Super Secret One in a Million to the Power of Kittybread Rare. It's 15 cards that TIMMY is most likely to get most excited about. Some of those cards may be tournament playable, and yes, they will command a certain price tag, but the rest of the cards (of which manabases should really be mentioned... think of how much money people spend on LAND for their competitive decks).
And since the frequency of all the rares is increasing as a result, think about it this way: Your store is going to be way more well stocked than usual with EVERYTHING. I'm seeing this as a plus guys.
It's just like the new card face, people cried "MURDER!" when that came up... This is no difference. Believe me, this is a decision that didn't come lightly to WotC, and if they decided to do it they did it because they think it will help bring more players in, not shove players out. And I highly doubt that they are going to nerf the community of players that have been playing for a long time. They aren't stupid guys, they want to keep us too.
And as others have mentioned, the rarity of the game has no basis for comparing it with Yu-Gi-Oh. That was just a poorly designed (in my opinion) game that attracted flocks of kids to it with a TV show. It was fundamentally flawed to begin with, Magic is a completely different ballgame. Please stop saying this game is becoming Yu-Gi-Oh, it's not.
But Kithkin were hardly a nuisance before, why would that have changed when all the other decks have evolved and even gotten cards that would help against it (i.e. Firespout)
That's the large rationale for giving MBC and Swans a chance, and not Kithkin. Kithkin already got it's chance, and it didn't succeed. These two decks are being given a chance, and I have yet to see whether they will truly succeed or not.
As said, the staple constructed rares are rarely the flashy ones, which as MaRo mentioned, are the ones becoming "Mythic". Sure, a couple of them might be tournament playable, but will it shoot the price right out of the sky? I doubt it.
I think that naysayers need to read some of the well thought out posts that some others have already made... There is some seriously solid and strong logic behind all of it.
And to those claiming Magic is becoming YuGiOh... Keep in mind that the physical game of Magic is far more advanced, dynamic and interesting than Yu-Gi-Oh can ever be. The reason Yu-Gi-Oh never overtook magic (same as pokemon) is simply because it doesn't have nearly as much design space, nor does it have the structure of play. It's the GAME ITSELF that has repulsed players from it, not the rarity of the cards.
You don't see world champs who don't really care about how much their deck costs like John Finkel playing Yu-Gi-Oh. Let's be real here... There's a massive difference between games.
Think about it... Yeah there will be SOME mystic rares that are going to be good that everyone will be looking to get. That being said, since he stated that most of the utility/staple rares will be kept where they are, how is this bad? To me, this is almost like saying "All the solid rares that get expensive because everyone needs them become more available, and a lot of timmytastic rares that you don't necessarily want to see are going to show up less frequently."
I mean, he mentioned cards that are legendary basically... BIG sorceries and instants. This just screams "TIMAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY" to me... As said, there will be SOME that will be highly sought after, but this makes life easier for everyone. True timmies will be jazzed that they got their "mystic rare", spikes get their staples more easily, and johnny... well, okay, johnny may have just gotten screwed.
And even if Planeswalkers are all mystic rares, it doesn't really change much in my view. There's only one planeswalker right now seeing regular play, and that's Garruk. At least it's not 4-5 planeswalkers that everyone is pawing over.
Trust me, you go through the ENTIRE database enough times, you start to remember what everything is. Just decide to find a card, and try and build a good deck around it. Sooner or later, you might strike some gold (I think I did for this years' regionals... we'll see) and most of the time you won't, but hey, you get to have fun in the meantime and as said, you'll learn ALL the cards pretty quickly that way.
Oddly enough, Ravinca really ticked me off and caused me to quit magic until it rotated out basically... Don't ask me why, but I just didn't find it terribly exciting/inventive or anything... Not saying the cards were bad or anything, they just didn't really interest me... lol.
Oh wells... Welcome to the forum!
Limited is boatloads of fun... Often it's the best times you'll have when playing Magic, since sometimes it gets so random and the game is always different. Magic ultimately isn't about the money, it's about the experience I've had some of the most fun playing magic when playing with hyper budget decks in a basement with my buddies... When you slam Venom onto a Grizzly Bears, you can't help but laugh a lot.
I'm glad you feel that way about the forum (and your friends too). I'm working towards making it even better, and I'm going to try and get more frequent online tournaments going on just for everyones enjoyment/experience/playtesting. Sometimes in order to really gauge how good your deck is, you need to pit it against the gauntlet... I think it'll help everyone become better players in general.
As said, we (the mods) try our best to stay on top of things here. I know I devote many hours a day just reading threads, going through posts, editing, etc... So it's good to hear that there are those who appreciate it (I know that I personally get my fair share of hate mail... but I didn't sign on to the job expecting to be hyper popular :p).
So, I'll try and keep it up! If I can answer your question, I'm hoping that this place will be *THE* place for Type II discussion on the internet (that's my goal anyway).
I was very impressed and thankful for the number of people who reported posts when they saw them, and I hope that they (and others like them) will continue to report posts. Although I try to read every single thread every day, sometimes I do miss stuff and having certain posts be reported helps make my job as a moderator SO much easier. So please guys, keep clicking the "Report Post" button when you see something.
It did not make me feel good to hand out so many infractions guys, but it had to be done. Things have calmed down more or less, and with the new threads in Competitive, this has helped promote new discussion/critique and cooperation with many of the users. My objective is still to make this forum *THE* place for Competitive talk about Magic, and I think we're a step closer.
So, the "Crackdown" is now officially over. I would like to stress that I will not be particularly easier on any of the topics (of which I will re-list so that everyone is abundantly clear about what is expected), however, if you are a first time offender you probably won't get an infraction unless it's particularly bad. This is mainly in regards to the newer users to the forum, as they haven't quite figured out all the rules/how things work here yet. For the veteran users, I base whether I warn/infract entirely on prior history. So if you have received spam warnings/infractions in the past, don't expect me to give you any breaks if you spam again.
But since everyone seems to have been trying to make an effort, I'm hoping that it shouldn't be so much of a problem now :). Just for everyone's reference, even though the "Crackdown" is over, I'm still going to be looking hard for any posts that violate the forum rules. The main types of posts that I'm looking for are the following:
Spam - If a post offers nothing constructive towards a thread, it is deemed spam. If the topic veers off a little bit, that's fine. But talking about a football game for instance would be spam in the Faeries thread. This principle can be applied in MANY regards. So as said, make sure your post is ON TOPIC and CONSTRUCTIVE. Posts that just say "I agree" are spam. If you have an opinion, talk about some of the logic behind your opinion as opposed to just stating it.
Double Posting - Although I categorize double-posting in the same spot as spam, some people don't realize this. Double posting is an offense, and this is one of the issues we have been having as of late. Use the EDIT button instead of double posting. If you feel you need to "bump" a thread, here's a little trick that everyone will appreciate: Copy the contents of your post. Then, delete the post and repost it. Do not ABUSE this... If a thread has been dormant for a long time, it will be considered necroing and will be infracted.
Flaming - Verbal (well, more like written) attacks against other users are not tolerated in ANY form. There's a saying I like to stick to when I'm having an argument with another user: Bash the deck, not the user. This is a game with a lot of variety, a lot of different ideas. If you feel a person is wrong, explain WHY. Do *not* start calling that person a "n00b" "idiot" "asshat" whatever. This all falls under flaming. We are going to be VERY strict about this. If you feel a person is trolling or flat out flaming, hit the REPORT POST button and let us deal with it. If you participate in the flaming, you will be infracted as well, whether you are right or not.
Trolling - If you don't think a deck belongs in Competitive, or that a certain card/deck choice is bad, DO NOT PROVOKE A FLAME WAR by stating your opinion in an aggressive way. There are nice ways of saying things. Take this as an example:
"Faeries suck hardcore. Anyone who plays them is a n00b." (Obviously Trolling)
- OR -
"I don't think Faeries is a good choice to play... There is so much metagame hate out there I don't see it as being very competitive."
(Please note, those are not my personal feelings. I'm using an extreme example to emphasize my point. Notice how differently each statement comes across.)
As shown, there are constructive ways to make your opinion clear without provoking other users.
Deck Tags - These are MANDATORY. If you do not know how to use them, instructions can be found here. The walkthrough provided is very detailed, and you should have NO problem utilizing them. Deck tags are important for everyone, because sometimes not everyone can remember exactly what a certain card does and having it auto-carded is an immense help. That, and the simple fact of the matter is that it makes posts cleaner and easier to read. This benefits EVERYONE, and will likely provide you more feedback when asking for opinions on your deck.
Backseat Moderating - The time it takes to write a useless post as to what the poster did wrong, you could have reported the post in half the time, had the issue dealt with more quickly by the mods, and not have received an infraction for yourself in the meantime.
So again, thanks guys for putting in the effort, and a VERY special thank-you to each user that reported posts on an almost daily basis. I really really appreciate it, and I hope you all continue to do so. As said, sometimes I miss stuff or I have to go to work/etc. and having those posts reported allows me to get to the heart of the matter MUCH more quickly. So keep up the good work!
Your mod team,
CrAzEd MiKe, Lotus, Lesurgo
Below that, there is Merfolk which tend to do well vs. Faeries/Reveillark. There's G/B Elves which tend to do well against Merfolk/other forms of aggro in general, and fairly strong against Faeries (keep in mind, this is all relative... it's not like they have FANTASTIC games against Fae).
RDW hasn't really seen much T8 action as far as I can tell... Although I've heard time and again that it *is* good against Faeries, it seems like the Reveillark matchup is SERIOUSLY lacking, and against most of the rest of the field, it's not particularly powerful. That being said, if you haven't seen it, Zvi Mowshowitz's R/G "bash" looks very solid to me.
Reveillark, as mentioned, is pretty strong against most of the field aside from Faeries/Merfolk. If you're a good Reveillark player, I would probably suggest you take your build to Regionals as you will be the most comfortable with it, you'll know the matchups a little better and it does have a very solid game vs. most of the field.
It all depends on how you set up your deck too... There's obviously a lot of variation between builds which allows you to tune somewhat to your metagame.
I hope that starts you off okay!