To be fair, I was only holding my vote pending votecount, and I do have a double-vote today. That would have brought Ace very nicely into claim range.
I do agree, however, that we should wait for a replacement who can actually claim. Let me ask, though -- who actually thinks that Ace should not be lynched, given his utterly fake responses the entirety of today?
I did forget your double-vote when I was counting things up. Yeah, he'd be heading for claim range, but still certainly not what I'd call enough town consensus to warrant stringing him before he or his replacement can even claim (which it seems we agree on). I can certainly see us lynching him today, but not before we get a chance to hear from him or his replacement.
@Guardman
...I swear, I just finish telling RafK that you're not following trends blindly and swallowing other people's reasoning to bandwagon, and you do it. Twice, to boot.
I'm beginning to think Ecophagy has a point about you. In fact...
Unvote: Jobie
Vote: Guardman
Yeah, Guardman's not looking any better to me either.
I think Ace is scum. I think it would be a waste of our, the mod's, and especially the replacement's time to have him replace in and be immediately wagoned potentially to a lynch.
Yes, what a waste of time to get someone to take his place, provide thoughts on the game, and actually be able to claim when within range and possibly provide useful information. Yup, much better to just speed lynch him and move on to night.
As for "there are only 4 people voting him" - you failed to look at the non-voters. Combined, there are 9 people who are currently voting or who stated they are willing to vote Ace.
Nope, didn't fail to look at that at all. Nice of you to mention the first half of my sentence and not the second half. Of those 5 people who are "willing to vote Ace", two of them simply expressed interest and a perhaps a willingness to vote provided Ace's response was insufficient to sway (I should know; I was one of those two). So you have 4 votes, 3 "I'll probably vote", and 2 "wagon may have merit" out of 20 non-Ace players. Again, I'd hardly call that a consensus.
BS. Dropping out under these circumstances should not affect the lynch at all either way. If there was already a consensus to lynch it would be one thing. Instead for the second time today you have taken the laziest option possible to get someone killed. Really not looking good for you
Agreed. The vote count previous to andelijah's post was 4 for Ace, with a few more expressing interest in the wagon. Hardly a consensus that Ace was scum. I'm thinking a re-read on andelijah might be in order.
I did not forget, I just found in a reread that my suspicions of AE were unfounded, and that my reasonings for both himself and Eco being possible scum were both 'absurd'. AE has come back with some insightful posts, and most certainly playing town at this point.
2. If you want me to post "I don't what to think about this wagon/person." then I will happily do that instead of trying to scumhunt people I think are scum. Namely Eco and NA at this point in time.
See, no one is saying you should be doing that instead. The point is that one would expect a townie to weigh in on important matters, not that they would do that to the exclusion of everything else. Scumhunting elsewhere when you're not sold on the most prominent wagon is all well and good, but avoiding adding anything to the discussion on the most prominent wagon is not. andelijah's comment about Guardman having "conviction under pressure" is a reasonable point, but I can't say it sells me on his innocence.
I do like PM's case on Ace though. Depending on how he responds, I may move my vote.
Sorry for the delay. Sinus headache had me down for the count.
Finished re-reading a few peeps. Do not like Guardman. Do not like his jump to/from PM yesterday. Do not like his complete avoidance of the Cantrip wagon. Do not like the fact that the first thing he does today is start going after one of his main detractors from yesterday. I think Eco's accusation of OMGUS is reasonable.
I didn't know what to think of CTM, and I didn't want to sit there twittling my fingers going "Hey guys, I have no idea what to think about CTM." Instead I decided it would be better for me and the town if I tried to scum hunt against people I actually found scummy and could create a case against.
Choosing to pursue people you find scummier is all well and good, but completely ignoring the post prominent discussion in the game doesn't strike me as pro-town.
Also I wouldn't call my actions yesterday wagon hopping. I made cases against the people I attacked, and actually had reasons for my attacks. That isn't wagon hoping that is scum hunting.
I'd sure as hell call it wagon-hopping. Your jump to PM was terrible. You had been tunnel-visioning NA to the exclusion of all else, then in a post where you insist again that NA is scum you unvote and jump to PM, while basically parroting Ced. Your only original (and unimpressive) point was to say that PM wasn't posting real content, and then you spent the next few posts arguing with PM about what does and doesn't constitute content. Then as soon as Ced drops the case against PM, you do too. From there you move to kpaca with pretty bad reasoning, and ride that until you get called out enough on the poor meta. All while completely avoiding the Cantrip wagon. Yes, I'd say that looks like you were hopping from safe wagon to safe wagon (that is to say, wagons that weren't destined to end in lynch a la Cantrip).
And we have already been over this. I believed before kpaca was killed that my "fishing" as you call it was beneficial to the town and if proven correct would have let us catch a lot of scum.
You never once pointed out how your fishing trip was going to catch scum. In fact, in one post you even asked the question "What can we gain from this?". You didn't even know what could be gained for the town. Kind of important to know that kind of thing BEFORE info starts getting put out into the open, isn't it?
Looking over GM required looking over Ecophagy as well. Eco was pretty critical of GM yesterday, and his criticisms seemed valid to me. Didn't exactly post heavily, but didn't feel lurky like others (like AE and SO).
Also looked over Some One. SO's posts have largely been short and useless. His jumping on AE after EP's "revelation" today was horrible too. Honestly, I seem to recall SO having a much better posting quality when he's town (Battle Royale and Doomsday). Despite having more posts than Eco, I think he's contributed a lot less. Feels like SO is active lurking to me. SO also avoided the Cantrip wagon just like GM did. His only post at all regarding Cantrip was his "I had a dream about this scumlist" post, and all he really says about Cantrip is that the claim doesn't do anything for him.
Ugh. AE's posts haven't made me feel any better about him. His "my complete lack of content is no reason to vote me" defense is hardly inspiring. His claim doesn't do anything for me because, well, no one's claim should really do anything. They're independent of alignment. That said, I'm not willing to lynch a pretty much confirmed doc at this point in time. Still not convinced of his innocence though.
UNVOTE Archmage Eternal, FoS Archmage Eternal
Really tired right now. I'll try to read back over some things in the morning. Guardman and SO are giving me bad vibes.
EP's revelation was... less than impressive. Still think AE's the play though. Even if you don't agree with the meta argument, just go back and look at his play all through Day 1. He was useless the entire time. He never commented about any of the major wagons while they were going. Unless of course you count the hilariously bad "kpaca what is this?" post when kpaca first mentioned his mafia clause.
Do you care to elaborate on this night action of yours? If its saying I did something its a lie. Lets hear it. How does my post say I'm scum? I was letting TMT know why I didn't respond to his SK claim based on BR. To me it was a ploy from TMT to brand me as an SK so I could become an easy mislynch.
Ploy to brand you as an SK? That's cute. Your play as SK in Manga Mafia doesn't change the fact that you are play here is very much like you played in Battle Royale. There's no "ploy" going on here at all. The comparison of your play here and in BR is perfectly valid. You accusation of me reeks of OMGUS.
O.o Seriously? I'll tell you how this reads to me: "I'm perfectly willing to cherry-pick and choose my arguments from the evidence presented, ignoring anything that doesn't fit my preconceived notions of what I want the outcome to be and/or ignoring any elements of that evidence that are presented incorrectly." Tell me this isn't how you roll, please.
reek of desperation and flailing. And his strange fixation with MMoD not wanting to see NA lynched over pm shenanigans looks like he's desperately trying to find something to attack someone over in hopes of distracting his attackers.
I did forget your double-vote when I was counting things up. Yeah, he'd be heading for claim range, but still certainly not what I'd call enough town consensus to warrant stringing him before he or his replacement can even claim (which it seems we agree on). I can certainly see us lynching him today, but not before we get a chance to hear from him or his replacement.
Yeah, Guardman's not looking any better to me either.
Yes, what a waste of time to get someone to take his place, provide thoughts on the game, and actually be able to claim when within range and possibly provide useful information. Yup, much better to just speed lynch him and move on to night.
Nope, didn't fail to look at that at all. Nice of you to mention the first half of my sentence and not the second half. Of those 5 people who are "willing to vote Ace", two of them simply expressed interest and a perhaps a willingness to vote provided Ace's response was insufficient to sway (I should know; I was one of those two). So you have 4 votes, 3 "I'll probably vote", and 2 "wagon may have merit" out of 20 non-Ace players. Again, I'd hardly call that a consensus.
Agreed. The vote count previous to andelijah's post was 4 for Ace, with a few more expressing interest in the wagon. Hardly a consensus that Ace was scum. I'm thinking a re-read on andelijah might be in order.
Ummm, what?
See, no one is saying you should be doing that instead. The point is that one would expect a townie to weigh in on important matters, not that they would do that to the exclusion of everything else. Scumhunting elsewhere when you're not sold on the most prominent wagon is all well and good, but avoiding adding anything to the discussion on the most prominent wagon is not. andelijah's comment about Guardman having "conviction under pressure" is a reasonable point, but I can't say it sells me on his innocence.
I do like PM's case on Ace though. Depending on how he responds, I may move my vote.
FoS Ace
Should have said "most", not "post".
Finished re-reading a few peeps. Do not like Guardman. Do not like his jump to/from PM yesterday. Do not like his complete avoidance of the Cantrip wagon. Do not like the fact that the first thing he does today is start going after one of his main detractors from yesterday. I think Eco's accusation of OMGUS is reasonable.
Choosing to pursue people you find scummier is all well and good, but completely ignoring the post prominent discussion in the game doesn't strike me as pro-town.
I'd sure as hell call it wagon-hopping. Your jump to PM was terrible. You had been tunnel-visioning NA to the exclusion of all else, then in a post where you insist again that NA is scum you unvote and jump to PM, while basically parroting Ced. Your only original (and unimpressive) point was to say that PM wasn't posting real content, and then you spent the next few posts arguing with PM about what does and doesn't constitute content. Then as soon as Ced drops the case against PM, you do too. From there you move to kpaca with pretty bad reasoning, and ride that until you get called out enough on the poor meta. All while completely avoiding the Cantrip wagon. Yes, I'd say that looks like you were hopping from safe wagon to safe wagon (that is to say, wagons that weren't destined to end in lynch a la Cantrip).
You never once pointed out how your fishing trip was going to catch scum. In fact, in one post you even asked the question "What can we gain from this?". You didn't even know what could be gained for the town. Kind of important to know that kind of thing BEFORE info starts getting put out into the open, isn't it?
Looking over GM required looking over Ecophagy as well. Eco was pretty critical of GM yesterday, and his criticisms seemed valid to me. Didn't exactly post heavily, but didn't feel lurky like others (like AE and SO).
Also looked over Some One. SO's posts have largely been short and useless. His jumping on AE after EP's "revelation" today was horrible too. Honestly, I seem to recall SO having a much better posting quality when he's town (Battle Royale and Doomsday). Despite having more posts than Eco, I think he's contributed a lot less. Feels like SO is active lurking to me. SO also avoided the Cantrip wagon just like GM did. His only post at all regarding Cantrip was his "I had a dream about this scumlist" post, and all he really says about Cantrip is that the claim doesn't do anything for him.
VOTE Guardman
FoS Some One
UNVOTE Archmage Eternal, FoS Archmage Eternal
Really tired right now. I'll try to read back over some things in the morning. Guardman and SO are giving me bad vibes.
This post is bad and you should feel bad.
VOTE Archmage Eternal
Ploy to brand you as an SK? That's cute. Your play as SK in Manga Mafia doesn't change the fact that you are play here is very much like you played in Battle Royale. There's no "ploy" going on here at all. The comparison of your play here and in BR is perfectly valid. You accusation of me reeks of OMGUS.
VOTE Archmage Eternal
AE's disappeared again, and no one seems to care, but Cantrip's a fine lynch too. Comments like
reek of desperation and flailing. And his strange fixation with MMoD not wanting to see NA lynched over pm shenanigans looks like he's desperately trying to find something to attack someone over in hopes of distracting his attackers.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=144606
This. It really stood out to me.