While I agree with a lot of what you say, they never lied to us.
"It's not our intent that mythic rares just be a list of the most powerful cards in a set" it's often just that. There's a couple strong rares, but that's usually it, per set.
"We won't print utility things at mythic" All is Dust, and every planeswalker ever.
But this thread isn't about mythics. It's about another cut promo system. (Both failures by wizards) don't let my grumpyness spiral the thread off-course.
I quit buying and playing magic regularly around the time that Mythic rares stopped being "big goofy timmy cards that nobody needs" and started being "four of, required for standard, efficient beaters".
WotC explicitly lied to us. They pulled the wool over everyone's eyes, don't you see? The first few sets featured very few mythics that were "must have". The ones that were played, you'd only need two of.
That was their plan all along. To ease us into the 'new reality' without shocking everyone. It's unquestionable that this is worse for the competitive nature of the game, it limits people by how much they can spend. But Hasboro wants more money, screw integrity of the game.
I still poke around these parts, read the spoilers, what not. I still like the game. But I refuse to support it the way they were going, sacrificing game integrity and player satisfaction to make more money.
Lo and behold, since then a huge string of changes all negative: End of mythic pre release cards( the only reason I went out to pre releases was for those cards). End of other promotional card programs.
This game is a sinking ship. This is just one more way WotC has proven that the people who've played this game, the long time players, are not their main concern. They DO NOT CARE ABOUT YOU. They care about your replacement, little timmy. Get out while you can and invest in a game where money doesn't determine who wins. Invest in a company that cares about and supports its longterm players.
I quit magic nearly a year ago, because Mythics had irreversably ruined the TRADING aspect of the trading card game.
It used to be the case that a playset of a moderately good card (5$ish) could get you one chase rare(20$ish). Now all the rares in a box can't equal the price of one chase mythic. That's just wrong. The trading aspect is gone, the value of chase mythics is so far beyond that of normal rares that it almost never makes sense to trade them.
I still poke in here from time to time to see what's going on; I figure maybe they'll come to their senses and fix what they've broken.
Instead I come in and find the only thing that got me to play magic as I was slowly quitting was removed. Some of the last events I did were pre-releases, and they were absolutely influenced by the mythic (Hello Emrakul!)
I have no regrets that I quit. If you want to speak to wizards, don't write petitons, don't send emails, don't even whine on the forums... just stop buying all magic cards. Period. Keep your favorite decks, and play casually, but stop dumping money into a company that's only goals right now are to milk you dry.
I don't know if it's been mentioned, but that axe is clearly made of darksteel. That is to say, it shows the characteristic orbiting energy lines that all of its Darksteel predecessors had.
The prices of mythics has done one thing for me: It's made me focus more on EDH and casual magic, because competitive magic has became a joke. If I want to make any of the 'good' decks, I'm looking at shelling out far more money than this game is worth, IMO. Especially for a format where the cards are rotating on a consistent, regular basis. Makes life much simpler, but honestly I'm just considering quitting altogether. The only product I've bought was at the Eldrazi pre-release, and that was only because I was guaranteed an Emrakul. Every time I consider getting a pack, I think about what I can open, and considering that:
A.) What I, more or less need, is mythic
B.) Specific mythics aren't even 1 per box
C.) I don't like to gamble
I just keep my money for some other expense. I cannot justify buying lottery tickets, and this is the same principle. I do like the game, but the Mythic rarity has chased me right out of competitive play.
Another issue, IMO, is price skewing creates cards that cannot be picked up in a trade. All the other rares and mythics in a box of Worldwake combined, isn't worth a Jace. The only cards that can even come close to jace are other specific high-dollar mythics, IN MULTIPLES. Honestly, I don't know why JTMS wasn't put vs Elspeth just to curb the prices of that card, right now its completely out of hand.
If you read any articles by the pros, they constantly bring up the fact that they BORROWED the cards to make a deck. Now, why would a pro who plays in PTQ's all over the place borrow cards to make a deck. Ask yourself that and now you will understand that Magic is getting just a bit pricey. A good business will always introduce an expensive item into the mix. With the Hummer, they put out an expensive one to test the waters. To see if anyone would pay the rediculous amount they wanted for it. Well some people took the bait, most didn't. They tried though and failed, so what did they do, they made a cheaper Hummer and now people are happy. Wizard's put an expensive set out and low and behold people bought it and still are are paying the rediculous prices now, but they aren't complaining, other than a couple sites like this. So what does that tell them, keep those Mythics coming! That's what big business is all about. They are not in business just to keep us happy, if enough people revolt they will change, like any other big business does. Money always talks!
See, I just don't agree with this. Because if you look at the 2011 list, it pretty well shows that they learned from the mistakes of WW and RoE. The majority of interesting cards tend to be rare, with a small number of mythics (B/G titans, BSA) being sought after. Nantuko Shade, Obstinate Baloth, the new misdirect, Phylactery Lich, etc, are all rare. This to me signals they learned that having bad rares and good mythics ruins the price of the rares and makes the mythics neigh-unobtainable.
I'm a Timmy at heart, and I'm seriously hoping to get my hands on one of each of the big three. This is the first prerelease that I know I have to go to, in ages. The prerelease card is that big of a deal. So far, my feelings are very mixed... I love the Eldrazi, but there's three of them, and all at mythic. As much as I like them, its going to take some awesome cards besides them to make me want to actually buy a bunch of it. Level up is very, very lame.. a weak overall mechanic that reminds me of the flip creatures in Kamigawa, too much investment for too little benefit. I'm hoping whatever else is left really wow's me, because as much as I adore the mythic Eldrazi, the nonmythic spoiled Eldrazi all feel watered down in comparison.
Also, as far as price related to baneslayer power, remember Darksteel Colossus? I have a feeling Ulamog will be similarly expensive in the long run because of his sheer similarity to it. The 15/15 i win guy would be even more, but hopefully the prerelease card status will keep the price down on him also.
You guys can't actually be surprised by this. Magic has been in 100% cash grab mode for awhile now. I mean honestly. They didn't print enemy colored painlands for years, because there was no reason to. But now they're printing them, in the one set where they probably shouldn't(fetchlands will probably put Landfall over the top as a ridiculous mechanic). When Mythic Rares started, it wasn't a big deal. None of the cards were particularly amazing, and even those that were, you probably weren't running 4 copies of. What we're seeing in M10 and Zendikar is what they really wanted to do with Mythic Rares all along. Put the top tier cards for each color into the mythic rarity. That way, they stick to their 'no utility mythics' bit, while still forcing you to spend ridiculous amounts of money on them.
In case you haven't noticed, they've also moved full on into 'cater to YuGiOh players' mode. They gave them free invites to Nats(or whatever event it was) last year. There are more creatures than ever, and the power creep on them just keeps increasing. Spells are at a low point. Oh and they added 'traps'. Hasbro figured out that YuGiOh parents have no problem spending a billion dollars on the game, and are trying to milk them for all they're worth.
I suppose the issue is players holding WotC to a different standard, "they're better than that" mentality. Especially since it was clearly stated utility =/= mythic and that rule is already gone.
I'm more and more glad I focus on EDH and casual play over competitive. I never felt the sting of Baneslayer's 25$ pricetag, and in all likeliness I won't have to deal with this guy either.
this card, at least in type 2, will spawn a new breed of ramp deck that is going to be devastating. Its remarkably easy to include him in any deck running fetchlands, but accomidating him just a little bit more, by including such cards as Birds of Paradise, Noble hierarch, or even harrow, and he explodes. Yes, he dies to removal. Unlike most creatures, however, that one turn in play isnt game-breaking. Violent ultimatium, Identity Crisis, or Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker on turn 2-3 is in most cases game over. Tarmogoyf swings for 3-6, and you still untap and can play. This guy, if he sticks, potentially ends the game on his own, on top of, in a worst case scenario, swinging for 2.
Makes me glad I do EDH, all I really want out of zen is one set of R/U fetches and a foil of that legendary octopus. I'm not going to even bother with those cobras, they wont ever be a reasonable price because of the mythic rarity.
But I can't really think of what other elves I want to run. I don't have any interest in Elvish Champion or Imperious Perfect. I think its probably going to function like some sort of elf-ball deck, but I don't know where I want to take it from here.
A while ago, sometime during Fifth Dawn, Myself and a few other people I know sat down to play a game of Generals (3v3 with one player as the Leader, RoI) And the game was nearly in the bag. Both of the enemy flanks were dead, but the killing shot needed to be done by me since my flanks had nothing left over after some sweep effect. I couldn't quite do it on my turn, so passing around the table my teammate resets me to 20 life with Blessed wind. The kid was kind of miffed, and acting a bit . . . desperately arrogant. He untapped, and took his turn, making a big display of using all of his available mana to, in one turn, play Platinum Angel, Darksteel Forge, and Whispersilk Cloak, equipping the cloak to the angel. Now while this was impressive, it was far from unbeatable. He sits there proud as can be and boldly says something like "try and kill me now" So, my flank takes his turn, passes, EOT I use Soothesaying To look at the top three cards, with 5 open. Not finding an answer, i shuffled the deck using the soothesaying, to which he said "Oh, you're hoping to find an answer? GOOD LUCK". Now, my turn, during my upkeep, I checked the top four this time, and found my one-of Flowstone Slide. I quietly smirked, drew, and played flowstone slide for four, stating that it reduced his angel's toughness to zero and it died. He had a little temper flare there, scooped up some of his cards in play and tossed them straight up in the air, landing in a jumbled mess.
A non-gameplay related jerk issue: During the release of, I think it was Onslaught, I was at the local card shop playing. Some sleazy looking kid (about 15 or so) comes in and asks if they match prices here. The store owner told them they did not. He left, and came back to the store an hour or so later with a box of cards he purchased at another store. The owner recognized the kid, and told him off, talking about the overhead costs to run his place, and the playspace was for his customers. While I can see some arguments against it (All cards must be from this store no exceptions!) This kid was a tactless idiot about it, bragging about his cheaper box, and I feel he deserved what he got.
One last one from when I had just started playing, Prophecy had just released. Some of the people helped me cobble together a green deck, eventually becoming Stompy. At the time however my deck played four Avatar of Might. My opponent was playing a weird rogue deck based on squirrel production using Deranged Hermit and Dawnstrider to fog every turn. As the mono-green mage, I had no removal, but fortunately, he had a lot of squirrels, which meant I had three Avatar of Might in play, even though they kept getting fogged.
He was being arrogant, and was trying to go for a boom win with a huge ton of tokens all pumped up using some squirrel lord from prophecy, just for the sake of doing it. Anyway, he decides he has enough creatures at some arbitrary point and attacks me. In his glorious moment, he decided to tap and sacrifice almost all of his lands to that prophecy-squirrel guy to pump his team, then attack. With everything. Yes, including the dawnstrider. Now me, being the noob that I was, in mono green, tapped one forest . . .
Fog.
He stared back in disbelief for a moment, then swore under his breath, dropping his hand of cards on the table face down. His head slumped, and he passed the turn. I proceeded to hit him for 24, the first attack that got through all game because of that stupid Dawnstrider, and it was game. As a noob being fogged by that creature nearly 20 turns in a row, I have to say its some delicious irony that the actual card Fog won me the game.
I was responding to a statement that said neither card felt white, and said that both of these abilities were new 'un-white' additions to the color. I merely showed where the inspiration for them came from, and then concluded with why they were white.
Planar Chaos has taught us you can justify any ability in any color.
Path to Exile just feels like lazy design. It throws back to StP, but I question if unconditional targeted removal belongs in ANY color, and even if it does, why white? Black is was the chief color for spot removal, but its being one-upped by white at every turn for no adequate reason other than "white was underpowered so we gave it stronger removal!"
Thats fine, but instead of printing lazy overpowered (or at least, pushed) garbage like Path to Exile, they need to use their heads and manipulate this sort of mechanic more. With the enhancement of green's unsolvability, black needs some harsh removal of its own before its reduced to a complete joke.
See, now, this is where WotC needs to go with white. For the longest time, white has had access in its color pie to awesome abilities that feel white. Shining Shoal, Parallax Wave, Reverent mantra. Though these were older, they show white is capable of powerful cards that are uniquely white. Instead, they printed cards like Path to Exile and O-ring.
The existance of Harm's Way shows someone at WotC woke up and they are actually putting effort into designing white cards instead of throwing five tons of RFG spot removal at and calling it fixed.
"It's not our intent that mythic rares just be a list of the most powerful cards in a set" it's often just that. There's a couple strong rares, but that's usually it, per set.
"We won't print utility things at mythic" All is Dust, and every planeswalker ever.
But this thread isn't about mythics. It's about another cut promo system. (Both failures by wizards) don't let my grumpyness spiral the thread off-course.
WotC explicitly lied to us. They pulled the wool over everyone's eyes, don't you see? The first few sets featured very few mythics that were "must have". The ones that were played, you'd only need two of.
That was their plan all along. To ease us into the 'new reality' without shocking everyone. It's unquestionable that this is worse for the competitive nature of the game, it limits people by how much they can spend. But Hasboro wants more money, screw integrity of the game.
I still poke around these parts, read the spoilers, what not. I still like the game. But I refuse to support it the way they were going, sacrificing game integrity and player satisfaction to make more money.
Lo and behold, since then a huge string of changes all negative: End of mythic pre release cards( the only reason I went out to pre releases was for those cards). End of other promotional card programs.
This game is a sinking ship. This is just one more way WotC has proven that the people who've played this game, the long time players, are not their main concern. They DO NOT CARE ABOUT YOU. They care about your replacement, little timmy. Get out while you can and invest in a game where money doesn't determine who wins. Invest in a company that cares about and supports its longterm players.
My 0.02.
This is such a joke!
I quit magic nearly a year ago, because Mythics had irreversably ruined the TRADING aspect of the trading card game.
It used to be the case that a playset of a moderately good card (5$ish) could get you one chase rare(20$ish). Now all the rares in a box can't equal the price of one chase mythic. That's just wrong. The trading aspect is gone, the value of chase mythics is so far beyond that of normal rares that it almost never makes sense to trade them.
I still poke in here from time to time to see what's going on; I figure maybe they'll come to their senses and fix what they've broken.
Instead I come in and find the only thing that got me to play magic as I was slowly quitting was removed. Some of the last events I did were pre-releases, and they were absolutely influenced by the mythic (Hello Emrakul!)
I have no regrets that I quit. If you want to speak to wizards, don't write petitons, don't send emails, don't even whine on the forums... just stop buying all magic cards. Period. Keep your favorite decks, and play casually, but stop dumping money into a company that's only goals right now are to milk you dry.
Old Progenitus was truly epic in scale, he towered over the entirety of Naya.
This new one looks like he's comparable to Apoc hydra, and that thing is tiny :|
A.) What I, more or less need, is mythic
B.) Specific mythics aren't even 1 per box
C.) I don't like to gamble
I just keep my money for some other expense. I cannot justify buying lottery tickets, and this is the same principle. I do like the game, but the Mythic rarity has chased me right out of competitive play.
Another issue, IMO, is price skewing creates cards that cannot be picked up in a trade. All the other rares and mythics in a box of Worldwake combined, isn't worth a Jace. The only cards that can even come close to jace are other specific high-dollar mythics, IN MULTIPLES. Honestly, I don't know why JTMS wasn't put vs Elspeth just to curb the prices of that card, right now its completely out of hand.
See, I just don't agree with this. Because if you look at the 2011 list, it pretty well shows that they learned from the mistakes of WW and RoE. The majority of interesting cards tend to be rare, with a small number of mythics (B/G titans, BSA) being sought after. Nantuko Shade, Obstinate Baloth, the new misdirect, Phylactery Lich, etc, are all rare. This to me signals they learned that having bad rares and good mythics ruins the price of the rares and makes the mythics neigh-unobtainable.
Also, as far as price related to baneslayer power, remember Darksteel Colossus? I have a feeling Ulamog will be similarly expensive in the long run because of his sheer similarity to it. The 15/15 i win guy would be even more, but hopefully the prerelease card status will keep the price down on him also.
I suppose the issue is players holding WotC to a different standard, "they're better than that" mentality. Especially since it was clearly stated utility =/= mythic and that rule is already gone.
this card, at least in type 2, will spawn a new breed of ramp deck that is going to be devastating. Its remarkably easy to include him in any deck running fetchlands, but accomidating him just a little bit more, by including such cards as Birds of Paradise, Noble hierarch, or even harrow, and he explodes. Yes, he dies to removal. Unlike most creatures, however, that one turn in play isnt game-breaking. Violent ultimatium, Identity Crisis, or Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker on turn 2-3 is in most cases game over. Tarmogoyf swings for 3-6, and you still untap and can play. This guy, if he sticks, potentially ends the game on his own, on top of, in a worst case scenario, swinging for 2.
Makes me glad I do EDH, all I really want out of zen is one set of R/U fetches and a foil of that legendary octopus. I'm not going to even bother with those cobras, they wont ever be a reasonable price because of the mythic rarity.
So far, I'm thinking of something like:
4X Priest of Titania
4x Glimpse of Nature
4x Elvish Archdruid
4x Wellwisher
4x Overrun
2x Recycle
But I can't really think of what other elves I want to run. I don't have any interest in Elvish Champion or Imperious Perfect. I think its probably going to function like some sort of elf-ball deck, but I don't know where I want to take it from here.
A non-gameplay related jerk issue: During the release of, I think it was Onslaught, I was at the local card shop playing. Some sleazy looking kid (about 15 or so) comes in and asks if they match prices here. The store owner told them they did not. He left, and came back to the store an hour or so later with a box of cards he purchased at another store. The owner recognized the kid, and told him off, talking about the overhead costs to run his place, and the playspace was for his customers. While I can see some arguments against it (All cards must be from this store no exceptions!) This kid was a tactless idiot about it, bragging about his cheaper box, and I feel he deserved what he got.
One last one from when I had just started playing, Prophecy had just released. Some of the people helped me cobble together a green deck, eventually becoming Stompy. At the time however my deck played four Avatar of Might. My opponent was playing a weird rogue deck based on squirrel production using Deranged Hermit and Dawnstrider to fog every turn. As the mono-green mage, I had no removal, but fortunately, he had a lot of squirrels, which meant I had three Avatar of Might in play, even though they kept getting fogged.
He was being arrogant, and was trying to go for a boom win with a huge ton of tokens all pumped up using some squirrel lord from prophecy, just for the sake of doing it. Anyway, he decides he has enough creatures at some arbitrary point and attacks me. In his glorious moment, he decided to tap and sacrifice almost all of his lands to that prophecy-squirrel guy to pump his team, then attack. With everything. Yes, including the dawnstrider. Now me, being the noob that I was, in mono green, tapped one forest . . .
Fog.
He stared back in disbelief for a moment, then swore under his breath, dropping his hand of cards on the table face down. His head slumped, and he passed the turn. I proceeded to hit him for 24, the first attack that got through all game because of that stupid Dawnstrider, and it was game. As a noob being fogged by that creature nearly 20 turns in a row, I have to say its some delicious irony that the actual card Fog won me the game.
Planar Chaos has taught us you can justify any ability in any color.
Path to Exile just feels like lazy design. It throws back to StP, but I question if unconditional targeted removal belongs in ANY color, and even if it does, why white? Black
iswas the chief color for spot removal, but its being one-upped by white at every turn for no adequate reason other than "white was underpowered so we gave it stronger removal!"Thats fine, but instead of printing lazy overpowered (or at least, pushed) garbage like Path to Exile, they need to use their heads and manipulate this sort of mechanic more. With the enhancement of green's unsolvability, black needs some harsh removal of its own before its reduced to a complete joke.
The existance of Harm's Way shows someone at WotC woke up and they are actually putting effort into designing white cards instead of throwing five tons of RFG spot removal at and calling it fixed.
if you need to, you almost always state it, i.e. "Time Spiral, floating 4, untap tolarian"
Good idea.