I just recently started playing this deck and I’ve gone through about 3 leagues now. And one thing I’ve noticed is how hard it is to lose once Geisel resolves. I’ve read through a lot of this thread and it seems like a lot of people will skip the drop down to 1-4 life in order to try again next turn. I have been pretty consistent at just going for it and I have only fizzled once or twice. My question is how much you go for it or hold back and knowing how to decide?
I am also interested in the ideal way to play against UWx control decks. In theory it seems like being able to splice on and then cast again the turn after should be pretty hard to beat, but my control MU has been abysmal(0-4). So I feel like I am missing something
Edit: I’ve been using Finalnubs list with a budget SB.
I have the same doubt. My main deck list is very consistent and I don't wanna change, but I'm having doubts about my sb, especially in gy hate. For now I'm using 4x Leyline of the void, but I already tested Tormod's crypt, and now thinking to test Macabre. What I think is: gy hate only makes sense in the beginning of the game. If you draw a Macabre or Tormod's in your 5º turn against dredge ur are probably already dead. So, its a dead card like Leyline in the late game. If I need a gy in the beginning, the best option is Leyline. But I can be worng. I wanna know your thoughts.
I asking about purklefluff’s list, sorry to be unclear. However, I think there’s some good stuff to talk about here. How much do you get stuck on lands only running 20?
I love the macabre, they can go in against a lot of decks. Like I wouldn’t really want leylines in against company combo decks, but having a macabre to snipe their combo pieces or mute a eternal witness is great. It also is good at sniping snapcaster targets leading to misplays. Dredge and all in gy decks are on the downswing right now, so I’m kinda hedging my board there. If they become big again I could see using leyline, but macabre is super versitile and comes back with living end. I side them in all the time.
So random question but does idyllic tutor have in place in the 60? I have been getting screwed getting as foretold lately and i have been contemplating a copy or two.
I don’t think it does. However, Drift of Phantasms may. It’s strictly better due to being in our main color, being uncounterable and putting a dude in the yard for end. I think a 1-2x would be worth testing, I haven’t tried it yet personally but I can see the argument for it. Others in this thread have tried and discussed its merits though.
I really like the idea of a black splash to hard cast stuff and for a card or two sb but not going overboard.
What does your full sb look like? I have been having trouble with the last few slots. I feel like 4x leyline, 2x stony, 2-4x gy hate(I use macabre), 3x a mix of spell snare/spell pierce. That still leaves 2-4 slots open. The meddling mage tech seems interesting but I’m not sure it’s not to cute. But I haven’t played anything but storm more than a couple games.
Also how many lands does this deck need to play vs how many cyclers? I don’t think that obstructionist counts as a cycler for this application as it costs to much to dig for lands. I was playing 21 lands, 13 cyclers, but I was continuously having to dig for lands to make drops on time. I’ve increased to 22, and it has been a lot better. But I see a lot of lists at 20. I am curious how many lands people think should be played. As a control deck with a combo finish it’s really important that we hit land drops at least up to 4 and the way I play I really need to hit up to 6 pretty consistently.
Edit: Also, what are the cycler numbers? I’d been playing glasshulk of a two of due to it being castable and dodging push/bolt. But if I were to add a grave I could see going back to architect. And every time I play more than 3x street wraith it just seems bad.
I’ve played this deck through a bunch of leagues both friendly and competitive and I am convinced it has to play white for path. I have a 39-21 record over 60 games with 7 3-2s, 2 4-1s and 1 1-4/5-0. I had a little more success before the unbannings changed the meta. This is the list I’ve been playing:
The deck has been near flawless against UW Control (4-1), Affinity (2-0) and Pyromancer decks (5-0). While also very good against Tron(4-3) and Various decks (10-5). My Tron numbers feel like they should be better than the record shows. It has struggled against Jund (2-3) and RG Eldrazi (0-2). Traverse Jund(0-2) has been awful where as BBE Jund has been okay (2-1). I don’t have enough data against other decks I’ve played to really have a good idea what the match ups are other than my opinion.
I have been very impressed with Field of Ruin, it has been incredible at mana fixing and keeping opponents from taking over with lands.
I have the single colonnade as a west target, but the deck can’t afford more etb tapped lands so it’s only 1. Nimble Obstructionist was dropped for Clique before the unbannings and clique has been very good. I just hated cycling OR playing obstructionist and clique is always a threat that can be used offensively or defensively. I might try nimble again with the new triggers. I also have the land in board over crypt due to its interaction with cryptic command and it’s inability To be targeted by discard.
Glassdusk Hulk is over architect of will due to being castable and cyclable by all mana in the deck. It also has the added benefit of dodging bolt and push.
This deck has been very strong for me and in nearly every game I’ve played. I feel like it is in a great place in the meta. I would like to try Jace main over Azcanta and chalice/explosives side but haven’t yet due to cost.
I am curious as to why so many of you chose mono U or Ub instead of Uw. I started out pretty stock U mono blue with bojuka bog, architect and dismember. I found I wanted to sb dismember in vs nearly everything. But every time I sided it in the life cost or the fact it put a creature in the graveyard was too much.
I ended up splashing white for path (4 seachrome, 2 hallowed, 1 mystic, 4 field of ruin, and a plains). Fetches over hallowed might be better but I wanted to keep a significant number of basic islands. This change has been fantastic for me as it provides early interaction and avoids dealing with GY. It has significantly improved several mu’s. tron and rdw being some of the more significant.
I have been very impressed with the decks ability to win through board hate and have a good chance vs most archetypes. I still haven’t figured out humans, but it seems like that’s a common topic on this thread.
"You may cast this card for its miracle cost when you draw it if it's the first card you drew this turn."
Seems like an interesting new mechanic, but how is it going to be limited to the first card you draw? Because as soon as it touches the hand it is quite easy to move it around so it is not obvious to your opponent which card was drawn.. just seems like they're going to have to add additional rules to make sure this mechanic functions properly..
Do you guys think the draw step will become a segmented step or will it just be up to the players to reveal the card before it touches their hand or what?
It takes away 6-8 of our spells. It makes our clock very minimal and many decks aren't running mainboard removal. Its pretty brutal. Yes with the right draw you can get past it, but Traft is such a weakling that he gets worse as the game progresses and many times gets locked out and thrun gets out classed by titans. Definitely something to at least consider because with one card they can turn off 10% of our deck as well as slow our clock and possible board lock us.
I know that it isn't going to resolved every game, but I'm not sure we just ignore it either as it is soo crippling no other card shuts this down so well that i've seen.
I personally hate to be a nay-sayer, but for those of us playing online right now the deck is in a REALLY bad position.
Aggro-loam is seeing a HUGE spike in it’s numbers as a result of LSV playing it. I’m trying out Leyline of Sancity and see if that helps, but the issue is the how bad mana dorks are in a world of burn (aggro loam is a good match-up for burn ) and flame jabs.
Also in case you havn’t seen Jeremy nieman’s soulfish (esper) list, it’s a beating for us. I’ve currently 0-3 against it.
I’m going to be trying to figure out some solutions to the issues I’ve seeing on modo, but it’s looking like the 1 drop 3 drop may be a little too fair for the format right now.
As an aside I’m REALLY liking leyline right now. Aggro loam doesn’t have an out to it post board. It shuts down their discard and they can no longer burn you out. Also they generally sb out goyf and bob vs. blue decks so it’s pretty insane.
I havent seen the soul fish deck, but I have yet to win a game against aggro loam, even with sb hate it just seems like an awful mu. I'm testing a neutered gifts package right now and it seems nice but cutting the swords/elspeth make late game awful if you dont draw the gifts your stuck with a bunch or dork draws so i'm trying to work with that issue right now.
Gifts does seem powerful only running iona mb so it only takes up 4 slots and then spreading your 3 drops out Im running (4 giest,2kotr,2crusader,1clique) as a gifts for just 3 drops or 3 drops and a goyf or elspeth is still hugely powerful.
Idk not convinced on it yet and haven't had excellent luck with this deck lately. Ill probably be doing some heavy testing this weekend.
I don’t run defense grid, but I’ll defined consider it. Is Blood Moon generally boardable for control matchups?
I am also interested in the ideal way to play against UWx control decks. In theory it seems like being able to splice on and then cast again the turn after should be pretty hard to beat, but my control MU has been abysmal(0-4). So I feel like I am missing something
Edit: I’ve been using Finalnubs list with a budget SB.
I asking about purklefluff’s list, sorry to be unclear. However, I think there’s some good stuff to talk about here. How much do you get stuck on lands only running 20?
I love the macabre, they can go in against a lot of decks. Like I wouldn’t really want leylines in against company combo decks, but having a macabre to snipe their combo pieces or mute a eternal witness is great. It also is good at sniping snapcaster targets leading to misplays. Dredge and all in gy decks are on the downswing right now, so I’m kinda hedging my board there. If they become big again I could see using leyline, but macabre is super versitile and comes back with living end. I side them in all the time.
I don’t think it does. However, Drift of Phantasms may. It’s strictly better due to being in our main color, being uncounterable and putting a dude in the yard for end. I think a 1-2x would be worth testing, I haven’t tried it yet personally but I can see the argument for it. Others in this thread have tried and discussed its merits though.
What does your full sb look like? I have been having trouble with the last few slots. I feel like 4x leyline, 2x stony, 2-4x gy hate(I use macabre), 3x a mix of spell snare/spell pierce. That still leaves 2-4 slots open. The meddling mage tech seems interesting but I’m not sure it’s not to cute. But I haven’t played anything but storm more than a couple games.
Also how many lands does this deck need to play vs how many cyclers? I don’t think that obstructionist counts as a cycler for this application as it costs to much to dig for lands. I was playing 21 lands, 13 cyclers, but I was continuously having to dig for lands to make drops on time. I’ve increased to 22, and it has been a lot better. But I see a lot of lists at 20. I am curious how many lands people think should be played. As a control deck with a combo finish it’s really important that we hit land drops at least up to 4 and the way I play I really need to hit up to 6 pretty consistently.
Edit: Also, what are the cycler numbers? I’d been playing glasshulk of a two of due to it being castable and dodging push/bolt. But if I were to add a grave I could see going back to architect. And every time I play more than 3x street wraith it just seems bad.
4 Curator of Mystery
2 Glassdust Hulk
3 Street Wraith
4 Striped Riverwinder
Spells
4 Ancestral Vision
4 Living End
4 Path to Exile
1 Spell Snare
4 Remand
1 Search for Azcanta
4 As Foretold
4 Cryptic Command
1 Celestial Colonnade
4 Field of Ruin
1 Hallowed Fountain
6 Island
1 Plains
4 Seachrome Coast
4 Tolaria West
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Vendillion Clique
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Spell Snare
2 Spell Pierce
2 Stony Silence
1 Condemn
4 Leyline of Sanctity
The deck has been near flawless against UW Control (4-1), Affinity (2-0) and Pyromancer decks (5-0). While also very good against Tron(4-3) and Various decks (10-5). My Tron numbers feel like they should be better than the record shows. It has struggled against Jund (2-3) and RG Eldrazi (0-2). Traverse Jund(0-2) has been awful where as BBE Jund has been okay (2-1). I don’t have enough data against other decks I’ve played to really have a good idea what the match ups are other than my opinion.
I have been very impressed with Field of Ruin, it has been incredible at mana fixing and keeping opponents from taking over with lands.
I have the single colonnade as a west target, but the deck can’t afford more etb tapped lands so it’s only 1. Nimble Obstructionist was dropped for Clique before the unbannings and clique has been very good. I just hated cycling OR playing obstructionist and clique is always a threat that can be used offensively or defensively. I might try nimble again with the new triggers. I also have the land in board over crypt due to its interaction with cryptic command and it’s inability To be targeted by discard.
Glassdusk Hulk is over architect of will due to being castable and cyclable by all mana in the deck. It also has the added benefit of dodging bolt and push.
This deck has been very strong for me and in nearly every game I’ve played. I feel like it is in a great place in the meta. I would like to try Jace main over Azcanta and chalice/explosives side but haven’t yet due to cost.
Jace will be interesting to see how it works in the deck, but at $150 I’m not going to be able to test it. Hopefully they’ll be less online.
I ended up splashing white for path (4 seachrome, 2 hallowed, 1 mystic, 4 field of ruin, and a plains). Fetches over hallowed might be better but I wanted to keep a significant number of basic islands. This change has been fantastic for me as it provides early interaction and avoids dealing with GY. It has significantly improved several mu’s. tron and rdw being some of the more significant.
I have been very impressed with the decks ability to win through board hate and have a good chance vs most archetypes. I still haven’t figured out humans, but it seems like that’s a common topic on this thread.
Seems like an interesting new mechanic, but how is it going to be limited to the first card you draw? Because as soon as it touches the hand it is quite easy to move it around so it is not obvious to your opponent which card was drawn.. just seems like they're going to have to add additional rules to make sure this mechanic functions properly..
Do you guys think the draw step will become a segmented step or will it just be up to the players to reveal the card before it touches their hand or what?
I know that it isn't going to resolved every game, but I'm not sure we just ignore it either as it is soo crippling no other card shuts this down so well that i've seen.
I havent seen the soul fish deck, but I have yet to win a game against aggro loam, even with sb hate it just seems like an awful mu. I'm testing a neutered gifts package right now and it seems nice but cutting the swords/elspeth make late game awful if you dont draw the gifts your stuck with a bunch or dork draws so i'm trying to work with that issue right now.
Gifts does seem powerful only running iona mb so it only takes up 4 slots and then spreading your 3 drops out Im running (4 giest,2kotr,2crusader,1clique) as a gifts for just 3 drops or 3 drops and a goyf or elspeth is still hugely powerful.
Idk not convinced on it yet and haven't had excellent luck with this deck lately. Ill probably be doing some heavy testing this weekend.