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  • 1

    posted a message on Post Rotation Grixis Control
    Quote from 9ta!lz »
    i honestly think it will be banned. It's too strong lol.


    I had the same thought... I could see it being pretty busted in alot of decks, Aggro and Control - I wouldn't be surprised if it was one of the first New Standard Bans in about 5 months or so.
    Posted in: Established (Standard)
  • 1

    posted a message on Post Rotation Grixis Control
    Quote from 9ta!lz »


    Honestly I think risk factor would be insane in a boros aggro deck as well. Good for late re-fuel. They'll be low hp, so they either die or you get a possibly 3 more threats.


    Ewwwwww..... Yea I think you're right, Risk Factor is pretty busted. I didn't even consider that, it could totally slot in Mono Red or BR/Boros Aggro Decks to Refuel.... #Spicy
    Posted in: Established (Standard)
  • 1

    posted a message on Post Rotation Grixis Control
    Quote from 9ta!lz »
    [
    you don't have insight in your V2 decklist, which is what I thought you were going for. also after watching risk factor at work, i honestly can't believe the card was printed. Talk about absolutely broken...


    Edit: I now realize those two deck lists were from two separate people.


    Yea, my Counter Burn list had x2 Insights in it, but I've actually since upped it to 3. Insight is really good too IMO.

    Between Insights and the Risk Factors, you really dig through your deck quick to find the Banefires. It's really gross!

    I agree, Risk Factor almost even feels good enough to play it in Non Burny Types of Control Decks... - It's INSTANT! lol EEK! Jam
    Posted in: Established (Standard)
  • 1

    posted a message on Post Rotation Grixis Control
    Quote from 9ta!lz »
    Quote from MrRotten »

    I like the idea, with Assassin's Trophy sure to see a ton of play, Creatureless sounds super spicy...

    Here's my take on a Grixis Counter Burn deck, I think you're really missing out not running Risk Factor.



    I really like this list. 1 question why no insight, or notion rain?


    It's there in my List, atleast Chemister's Insight is - Risk Factor replaces the 3 drop Draw Spell of Notion Rain. Risk Factor is way better in a deck like this.

    I also didn't want to go all 4 Insight because a deck like this, you're trying to stay pretty low on the Curve so you can cast multiple spells a Turn.

    You still need to use some of the Burn Spells as Removal though, but with the Combination of Ionize + Risk Factor and then saving Banefires and Fight with Fire, you should still be able to finish off your Opponent pretty effectively.
    Posted in: Established (Standard)
  • 1

    posted a message on Post Rotation Grixis Control
    Quote from GreenTea83 »
    Hi all. I like your deck ideas so far.

    In this build I tried to see what could be done without pw/creature based wincons.
    There are a lot of great burn spells in this format.
    I like the idea of just counter-burning the opp to death, bypassing creatures/planeswalkers entirely.
    Ral G2 should be a nice surprise as well.



    I like the idea, with Assassin's Trophy sure to see a ton of play, Creatureless sounds super spicy...

    Here's my take on a Grixis Counter Burn deck, I think you're really missing out not running Risk Factor.

    Posted in: Established (Standard)
  • 1

    posted a message on MBC - Mono Black Control is Back?
    Quote from xBattleSpawnx »
    Quote from Th3M4g1cM4n »
    So I believe you may have been right. Splashing for green may be our best option. I've been wrecked by Den Protector so many times this past week. I can't imagine not putting it into may deck at this point. But it becomes a slippery slope of sorts. If I'm running Protector, why not run Deathmist Raptor? If I'm running Raptor, why not run Collected Company? If I'm running Company, why not run Abzan Rally? Not saying I won't try her, but... I just feel she's stronger in other builds better than ours currently is, and makes me think running those decks may just bee the better option. But I won't give up on us!



    So a couple of things on this.
    1. The reason we are not running collected Company or Abzan rally is because those are very different styles of decks. We aren't trying to jam in 30 creatures at 3 cmc or less for collected company. They are perfectly strong strategies, but fit into an Aggro / midrange rather than attrition / control.

    This doesn't diminish the value of den protector in our builds at all. Den protector is a means to an end and adds a ton of resilience to the deck. We can only run a max of 4 of any particular card. With den protector, you essentially extend that range which allows you to run your opponent out of answers.

    2. Deathmist Raptor. As far as I'm concerned, raptor should be discussed. I am currently running it in my build and it has been nothing short of fantastic. There are a couple of ways someone can approach utilizing den protector as an alternate win con. We can grow den protector to get around most creatures (cards like Eternal Thirst, Herald of Torment, etc) or we can toss in our favorite dinosaur (or most loathed depending on what side of the table you are on).

    Being able to always profitably trade with opponents AND constantly bring them back while grabbing a titan or Gary is pure card advantage. It does add a bit more green into the build, but keep in mind that I don't care about casting them face up on T3. If I can, cool. It is a utility card that I'm more than happy to discard into the graveyard.


    Agreed with all these points; I completely ignored his comments about CoCo or Rally... the title of the thread is Mono Black Control.

    Sure over the course of the months since January since I first designed and posted the the first version; we've had a few slight splashes; but it's core is still very Mono Black.

    With that being said; BattleSpawn has put in a ton of work on this thread too and although we have very different takes on Black/g Control/Midrange/Attrition; as I have he's experienced some good success with his builds too.

    His builds make better use out of Whip and he does run the Raptor; I won't go there but I can't deny it; it does look good.

    Although I won't go that direction myself; I appreciate his feedback that has helped continue development of the thread and the deck and he's contributed alot so I appreciate our different takes on things.


    Th3M4g1cM4n...and with that; if you're interested in building a CoCo or Rally deck; I trust you'll have no problem finding a thread discussing those archtypes; ...they're pretty popular

    I like to build obscure homebrews myself; try to come up with decks that beat meta games; even if it's just on my LGS and punish people who play the popular things and keeping their thinking inside the box.

    Good luck...

    Quote from corranhorn01 »
    Thanks for the massive dissection Smile


    No problem man; I'm glad you didn't take anything I said personally; cuz honestly that's the only way we learn.

    I am honored at the fact you took my list to your Event; and I feel really bad that you didn't get Positive Results by it; I feel as though I failed you and this thread honestly.

    I really do take it personally; which is why I wanted to take as much time as I could to dissect your breakdown and see where maybe I can provide enough feedback to help you improve.

    So no worries man at all; hope I helped; and I hope you stick around and continue to provide feedback... Real Life comes first; so don't worry about not getting to test; getting REAL matches in is always the best substitute; practice practice practice.

    Quote from corranhorn01 »
    It's a bit of a failing of mine to over board. So you would've done -2 Blight +2 Sage?


    Honestly; from that list I might have kept the Blights because they kill alot of their creatures; instead I might of dropped some of the Self Pain things.

    Erebos I feel doesn't help much in this kind of Matchup; and easily can drop down to 3 Read the Bones.

    Here's the Summary:
    -1 Erebos, God of the Dead
    -1 Read the Bones
    -2 Thoughtseize
    +2 Reclamation Sage
    +2 Infinite Obliteration

    Something along this line...

    If you really wanted the Crypts; I would then drop a Gray Merchant and a Titan?

    I like a few Thoughtseizes; so you can take a peek at critical times; and low and behold you can always Den Protector it back for extra Peeks and disruption.

    Quote from corranhorn01 »
    My theory with siding them in is I saw 1 DL Silum and 1 Drifting Death in G1, so I know this style of control runs ~5 wincons, so take them out and they can't win. I cut the Priest for the 4th Languih in the board.

    If I'd seen Icefalls in G1, I'd've kept a couple on Languishes in.


    The thing you gotta becareful with though is going too ALL IN on 1 way of thinking... what if they had Tutelage sideboard? Some do..

    What if Ashiok was a problem?

    What if it was a bigger disruption package?

    My UB Control list runs ZERO creatures...

    So for me; VS them; I expect to be able to Thoughtseize or Lilliana Discard these threats; or maybe side in one of the Obliterations VS them IDK.

    It's not a terrible plan; but I have since cut 1 Obliteration from the side and gone to just a x1 of.

    I would consider bringing it in VS a UB Dragons deck for sure; but then again I might just keep the Crux around and hit them with Discard/Disruption from Thoughtseize and Liliana and just hope to Crux a board of dragons.

    Quote from corranhorn01 »
    Yea. I'll agree with saying I need to work on shuffling a bit. I've started to Pile Shuffle more between each game in the past couple of weeks, and I think I did it for R1, 2 and 5. and once in R3. Yep, makes sense.


    It's an easy thing to overlook when you're playing Magic; dealing with alot of bad luck; and trying to analyze how... why... where you can do better.

    Leave no stone unturned... who knows; maybe your shuffling routine is good; but examine it, might find a better routine that works and you like it.

    Quote from corranhorn01 »
    I'd cut him for the 4th Languish as a meta call.


    Makes sense; one thing I'm starting to think though is instead of going for another Languish; perhaps it's time to put some Edict creatures in the side.

    I've found when I side in Languish and put it at a 4 Languish 2 Crux split; I find that I end up wanting Crux more cuz they brought in more Tougher creatures or something.

    I'm finding it hella awkward in some matchups... I'm starting to believe that either a 2/2 Split is fine; or a 3 Languish 2 Crux; and then out of the side do something like Edict Creatures or more Cheaper Spot Removal like Ultimate Prices or Murderous Cuts.

    Something to consider....

    Quote from corranhorn01 »
    It's more that it just seems to happen every time. I really wish I was able to find the time to properly test, etc myself. So then I wasn't basically taking a netdeck built for a different meta.

    My local meta game is all over the joint with 2 dedicated control players and then everyone else is mixed between aggro and midrange, with midrange being slightly more prevalent (Aggro decks are: 2 mono R - 1 too many creatures, 1 netdeck winning version, 1 abzan, 1 gw, 1 rb. Midrange are: Abzan wierd stuff (was running Hedonist Cove in multiples last week, etc), 2 Jeskai Tempo, 1 bg constellation, 1 Bx (was Bw last I saw it) midrange/control deck, 1 Elves. Then Control is Sultai and 4 colour (not G). On top of this we generally have a couple of people show up with random decks each week).

    All the hands I kept I thought was find but 1, and it was through the 20 mins of solitaire play that I was farily sure I could keep it (Swamp, Downfall, 2 Blights, Lili and Read vs Mono R).


    Yea I hear that; my meta is also all over the place; but for the most part it's the same meta that you would normally get on a bigger stage...

    The format as a whole no matter the meta big or small is quite aggressive.

    So you need to make sure removal or early game is strong to deal with that; while still being able to move into a Strong Midrange game powerful enough to win.

    I've actually got a bit of a redesign on the horizon; reverting it back a bit and trying again.

    The thing about Homebrews is it's always changing; it's never finished; when it's finished; it's usually about that time to move on from it... LOL It's odd how that seems to happen.

    With the fact you have so little time to Play Test; I would just stick with this... the worst thing is taking a very very expensive deck Tier 1; not getting any practice with it; and still losing.

    I feel this deck is borderline not nearly as expensive as most; and I think it's capable of winning FNM's no matter the meta.

    Just gotta keep ironing out the kinks and tweeking it to your own meta is all.

    All meta's are slightly different here and there... so don't be afraid to adjust it a little bit or ask questions.

    I don't mind at all.

    Good luck!
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • 1

    posted a message on MBC - Mono Black Control is Back?
    So here's what I will be playing on Friday.

    First before I post my updates; let me say that I felt my main was very very strong.

    The sideboard is what I felt needed some work after the fact in hindsight.

    I needed to adjust my focus and my attack plans...



    Some notes:
    #1: First; you'll notice I cut the Hangarback Walker. Let me just say that I think they were fantastic and still could be in here somewhere; the idea was thought to just move them to the side; but I feel like they are either Mainboard worthy or not at all. At any rate; I still think they are one heck of an investment. I also still think they do a wonderful job at slowing down Fast Aggro decks. I think it's a fantastic card for a "Control" deck as well. The thing is; I never considered the fact that with my latest adjustment; being on 4 Gray Merchant of Asphodel 4 Erebos's Titan 4 Bile Blight that perhaps the Red Aggro match would already be good. I saw in Patric Chapin's list Hangarbacks; I on the side was brewing Hangarback Control decks with Thopter Spy Network... So I was very very high on the card and thought it was a natural fit in Mono Black. When I was running Merciless Executioners, Fleshbag Marauder, more Palace Sieges, a few copies of Sidisi, Undead Vizier; I think Hangarback Walker would of been FANTASTIC in that style of list. WHY? Because that style of list is a bit slower. So you need that 2 Drop WITH Bile Blight that can create ugly situations for aggro matchups to slow them down. And Sidisi EXPLOITING Hangarback by that point making 3 to 5 tokens or Edict Creatures sacrificing Hangarback was fantastic... When I made the change a few days ago to cut out the Edict creatures; to cut out the Sidisi and lower Palace Siege all the way down to 1; Hangarback's role just changed significantly... Hangarback I feel shines greatly VS the Speedier Aggro matchups; but I feel like those matchups are already in my favor; so these got the axe.

    #2: Den Protector as we all know is just amazing... I've found room to add the 3rd copy I have to the mainboard. The reason I'm opting for only 3 copies is because they have the same problem that a Sidisi or a Palace Siege does; they do very little the Turn they come out. You either cast it on Turn 3 for MORPH hoping it survives when you goto untap on Turn 4. Or you cast it on Turn 5 for MORPH; and in response to any removal spell or at the end of your opponents turn UNMORPH it returning something back to you hand that you need for your Turn 6. So although it's about the same speed level as Sidisi or a Palace Siege; not really seeing the fruits of labor from either card till Turn 6; I like Den Protector more because of the flexibility it gives. VS the Red Speedier decks; I plan to potentially side some out.

    #3: Erebos, God of the Dead + 4 Read the Bones, this adjustment was made just to give the deck an ability to really dig dig dig. I enjoyed Erebos, God of the Dead in the earlier versions; but he got the axe when I went all in on the Titan + Gary plan. But I think Erebos is still a fantastic card; and there are some matcups where shutting off your opponents ability to gain life is relevant. And in some cases it's perfectly ok to be using your life total as a TOOL and draw with Erebos, 3, 4, 5 cards... Taking your life total all the way down if need be. Sure we don't do it VS the Red Decks; but VS the slower midrangey or control decks; it's perfectly acceptable to dig through your deck with an Erebos activation. Must in the same way that the old Black Devotion lists used to aggressively activate their Underworld Connections to find Gary or an answer. Also note that having 4 Read the Bones I think is actually really great; getting 1 is ideal; and getting a 2nd is even better. The best thing is getting 1 + Den Protector can mean that we have 2 Read the Bones if you return it. I have done this when I needed to dig for Answers; and VS Midrange/Control I have also done this when my life total didn't matter as much either because I had alot of life; or because they weren't in position to really be killing me; returning Read the Bones and playing it again is nice when trying to put together a plan to win.

    #4 SIDEBOARD: 4 Liliana, Heretical Healer is a strategy... I've wrote about this alot; I love her in 2 specific kinds of strategies. Which ultimately she comes in alot... The real key thing though is whether or not I want to FLIP her early or later... VS the Speedier Aggro decks; I have little interest in flipping her early. She causes headaches for them; because they're damned if they do; damned if they don't... meaning Lightning Strike her or Stroke her. I'm perfectly happy with that exchange if they choose to do it. And if they don't; she can easily create even bigger problems for them. But VS Control Decks; or I also bring her in VS the Sphinx's Tutelage decks and my intention is to FLIP her as quickly as possible. The strategy of Liliana is in the matchups that I want to flip her; the extra creatures get brought in as well. So VS the Tutelage decks; I bring in all the creatures out of the side including Reclamation Sage; the idea is to FLIP her; and UP TICK her immediately; never stop up ticking her. So the best things to be pitching to the UP TICK are creatures. WHY? Because she; along with Palace Siege can bring them back. But it's still not the end of the world pitching any of your other spells because Den Protector can get them back as well. So the plan is to UP TICK Lily; even pitching Reclamation Sage; the moment they play a Tutelage; untap, take your turn; DOWN TICK Lilly where X=3 and destroy a Tutelage. Or in the case of CONTROL matchups; bring in the Abhorrent Overlord; the Priest of the Blood Rite; along with the 12 creatures in the mainboard; not being afraid to dump any of them... VS Control I'm not interested in trying to go all out and win on Turn 5; it's just simply not going to happen. So the sideboard is heavily influenced with Liliana in mind. These are my extra bombs that we felt the deck lacked... The reason I picked creatures is because it works with the rest of the deck. Picking planeswalkers like Ugin or Garruk works well with Den Protector; and that's it.

    #5 SIDEBOARD: Updated to make room for 5 Cards that have ART/ENCH hate built in. Initially I was at 3; then bumped it to 4; and now I'm at 5. I think 5 is reasonable. And I really like the 2 Reclamation Sage if you consider the previous comments and synergy it brings to the table with Palace Siege and Liliana. If they happen to Mill a Reclamation Sage but we have a Active Lilly or Siege going; bring it back and start the destruction plan. I like this direction; but I don't want to go all in on it. I still love Unravel the Æther as a way to deal with Darksteel Citadel or another Ensoul'ed Artifact. I still like Unravel the Aether VS Hangarback Walker. I'll still use Unravel the Aether VS cards that Tutelage Decks use for DRAW; like Monastery Sieges or Dictates. Then using the Back to Nature or Reclamation Sages on the Tutelage itself. I think this package gives me good flexibility VS those decks; I've tested VS Tutelage decks alot; and I think I understand how to beat it. Granted; the UR One that is popping up is a different kind of animal; it's faster...

    #6 SIDEBOARD: Tormod's Crypt; I love love the Crypt. It's great VS Rally; but I also brought it in the other day VS Tutelage. I still misplayed the match; but the theory was sound and had I played the match without mistakes; I would of definitely won game 2; and took it to 3 games. You keep a close eye on their board; keep a close eye on their grave yard. Once they play Tutelage; you either want to POP the Crypt and exile their Graveyard immediately; or if they have the Monastery Siege; then you don't have to do it immediately. Wait till their next activation; then POP the Crypt when they Discard to Monastery Siege so you get max value. This slows down the Mill plan significantly if they can't cast Treasure Cruise efficiently. Now; this plan isn't going to exactly work VS the UR Tutelage decks because of the cheap looting cards that they have in Tormenting Voice and the other ones... That one I admit is going to be a different kind of animal; but I feel like we can safely move to a beat down plan because they have no way to answer Titan or Gary. They play a few bounce spells; maybe they play Ætherspouts; but if you see they have Aetherspout mana up; don't over-extend into it. Send just a few dudes till the coast is clear. They don't have the FOGS like a Sultai Tutelage deck can play. I personally think the Fog Tutelage is worse...


    I think everything else speaks for itself... the sideboard is where most of the changes came from.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • 1

    posted a message on MBC - Mono Black Control is Back?
    I'm going to try and address EVERYTHING since I posted my results from yesterday...

    And then post my most up to date list for FNM and more than likely running it back for Game Day!!!!

    I'm hella excited about the most recent changes I've made; it feels really strong finally, love where things went just bouncing random stuff off BattleSpawn; our banter back and fourth caused me to have an epiphany just looking at the list without certain aspects of it and it hit me.

    So a big thanks to BattleSpawn for humoring me; I think we went back and fourth just about the entire day!!! HAHA

    Appreciate it!



    For the most part; I'm good with your differences; you know the deck and play the deck as well as I do so I trust your differences; bravo man!

    Few notes though...

    #1: Liliana, Heretical Healer; honestly; with so few ways to FLIP her in the main; I wouldn't bother with it as a 1 of. I'd say either ADD an Ugin, the Spirit Dragon, a 2nd Liliana Vess; or go with a Languish. I think over all you'd be better off with any number of those things or another Hero's Downfall or a 4th Thoughtseize or something else. Heck; even another Read the Bones? Anything... I just don't see 1 Liliana Heretical Healer really making the deck; and cutting it absolutely won't break it either.

    #2: I like that you've added the 3rd Den Protector main; as I think I mentioned; by rights I should have mine main too but tossed it in the side cuz I was stubborn and didn't want to make the concession in cutting ANYTHING to find room for the 3rd main. Nice job here!

    #3: I'm not a big fan of 2 Sidisi, Undead Vizier with 1 Liliana Vess; I feel for the most part they're capable of doing the same thing. So I think you want 2 of this effect; I'd go 1/1 Split maybe? Or cut Liliana and go 2 Sidisi? You know my reasons on why I cut the Sidisi from my list all together; but to be fair you were higher on Sidisi in the beginning anyways, you talked me into it; and boy was it FANTASTIC!!!! So I had zero issues with it other than my reasoning why I tried things without it for now.

    #4: The "Lone" Drown in Sorrow; interesting... If it were me and since you're opting to go with a Lone Drown? I would maybe go 1 Liliana; 1 Sidisis; and 1 Dark Petition? The Dark Petition fetches up Drown and can cast it right away. IDK; might be too cute.

    #5: 24 Lands seems scary to me; but you've mentioned this before; if you're having success with it; by all means. You're also not running UGIN like I am; so actually 24 might be just fine.

    #6: So all in all; I would...
    -1 Liliana Vess +1 Thoughtseize (4)
    -1 Liliana, Heretical Healer +1 Languish (4)
    ...and then I'd call it a day. Smile

    No real major complaints thought; I like your tweeks and wish you luck!!!

    Quote from xBattleSpawnx »
    Hangarback Walker- Best 2 drop in standard? I think so. It has great synergy with many of the things we like to do and it is a 2 drop that you won't mind seeing topdecked on turn 7 or beyond.


    Couldn't agree more; I view it first and foremost as a 2 Drop; and yea totally agree it very well might be the best 2 drop in STD.

    Turn 2 Hangarback
    Turn 3 Leave up Bile Blight Mana while still being able to Pump Hangarback at opponents End Step.
    Turn 4 Leave up Downfall Mana; while still being able to Pump Hangarback again at opponents End Step.

    It fits so perfect in these lists.... and it really does slow things down for Red Players.

    #SuchValue!!!

    Quote from xBattleSpawnx »
    Sidisi, Undead Vizier- I was prepared to cut Sidisi, BUT with Hangarback, she becomes relevant again. In my opinion, exploiting Sidisi off of herself, while not terrible, is not something I want to do. Exploit a 4/4 Hangarback, leaving me with a 4/6 deathtouch, 4 flying chump blockers, AND I get to grab a card? Yes.


    I will MISS Sidisi for this exactly!!!

    Not going to lie; the other day when I played my last list and 3-0'ed and had an insanely easy day... there was a bunch of times I had a Hangarback Walker ticking up; and no real clean way to kill it; and sometimes I kind of wanted to kill it to go wide.......

    This could be 1 good reason to run Sidisi for sure; so I like that you've gone in this direction...

    Quote from xBattleSpawnx »
    Prism Ring- Seriously love this card right now. Great in any aggro match up and it makes thoughtseize or Read the Bones less painful. Plus languishing the board and gaining life for it is amazing. +4 against aggro decks


    We talked in great lengths about this and I love Prism in Mono Black; back in the day of Pack Rat Black Devotion; they played something called Staff of the Death Magus; Prism is by far a better version of that card!!!

    I just haven't found room for it...

    Quote from xBattleSpawnx »
    Unravel the Aether- This is a concession to the Thopter decks. Great tempo play against an Ensoul on a Darksteel Citadel. Target the citadel, they lose a land and the scissors go away.


    Spot on!!!

    The other thing I can't wait to do is BURY a Hangarback Walker that my opponent worked hard to stack up! LMAO

    I can't freaking wait for this!!!!!!

    Quote from xBattleSpawnx »
    Back to Nature- This is totally a meta call, but last night there were 3 or 4 people running some form of Constellation deck. This could easily be a 3rd Unravel the Aether, but I'll leave it in my side for now based off what I'm seeing at my shop.


    I too went a 2/1 Split of Unravel the Aether with a Back TO Nature.

    One of the reasons I was apprehensive to play Back to Nature was I was running more Palace Sieges at that time; and I was a little worried that playing Hangarback would somehow make Back to Nature feel awkward.

    But it doesn't at all... I like having the Back to Nature option to go along with Ugin VS the Fog Decks that run a ton of Enchantments.

    Seems like a good tech to have hanging around in the sideboard for those random weird matchups...

    This will also be great VS Thopter Spy Network.

    Quote from xBattleSpawnx »
    Crux of Fate- Mostly for the midrange match. Everyone has Languish on their mind and the way to beat that is to go big with the monsters. Crux will come in as extra insurance.


    Yep; I'm a big fan of having 2 Crux in the Sideboard JUST IN CASE we come across some big big midrange creatures that are ANTI Languish.

    I actually saw 2 today; someone was telling me I should play it for Game day... NAH

    Tasigur + Gurmag + Rhino + Reaper + something else... all 5 or more toughness creatures; and they all actually play nice together with Whips and Satyr Wayfinders....

    It looked like a sick deck to be honest; but it would curl up and die to control decks.

    So I like having 2 Crux in the Side.

    Quote from MrDid »

    I need some help with my meta - I went 0-3 last night largely because my build can't respond to the mill deck that has erupted in this area (4 out of my last 7 games were built around Sphinx's Tutelage. I'm considering splashing in 1 or 2 colors to help me out - especially as differing colors also stops the mill (at one point my opponent was drawing 6 cards off a treasure cruise and milling 1/2 of my deck).

    It looks like the mill deck could be taken advantage of. So I'm thinking of splashing either:

    Green - incorporating some of my Scavenger deck to use the graveyard for big creatures and a Back to Nature or 4. I could also side in Gather the Pack or something similar to help get my creatures out and graveyard filled when playing against non-mill decks.

    White - take advantage of Rally the Ancestors to return my creatures to the battlefield for a big hit and combine with Mogis and Gary. White also has some enchantment removal to help.

    Red - go B/R aggro to try and secure a fast beatdown with burn, removal, and low CMC creatures.

    I'm also considering moving the deck more towards an Abzan deck, but not sure if I'm good enough to be playing more than 2 colors at once. I'd love to have Dromoka's Command in my mainboard as it has such great utility in my meta.

    Grateful for any feedback. The guys in my LGS gave me some good feedback and a playset of Despoiler of Souls, which almost won me my final game. Overall I think I'm improving as I lost 1-2 to each mill deck this time rather than 0-2 last week.


    Yea so as you can see with the most recent talks; a bunch of us are settled on the Green Splash and packing things like Back to Nature and Unravel the AEther in the sideboard.

    I've been on a green splash actually for a little bit now; Den Protectors are just tooooo stupid good...

    And I just had a feeling that if Black Devotion really did become a great deck; we would eventually have to splash either Green Or White for ART/ENCH hate because of things like Orbs of Warding and other odd ball decks like Sphinx's Tutelage FOG Decks and Pyromancer's Goggles decks; and well like the new biggest craze... UR Thopters. Also; Thopter Spy Network will I'm sure become a real thing; it seems kinda on the fringe; but it's definitely strong; I've got a few decks that are built around it and they are good... real good!

    So I had a feeling that White or Green was going to be coming; and when I finally got past my apprehension of running a popular card like Den Protector; Green was the obvious choice because of Den Protector.



    Your main board looks pretty solid; I also like your deviations from my Black/g list.

    Def shows you know what you're doing and you know the ins and outs of what you want the deck to accomplish.

    Few notes about your list:
    #1: I'd be real careful using Ultimate Price; there's still a good number of Multi Color creatures that are being used. Now; for this choice; I feel like this is probably a Meta Decision that you're making here; someone who goes this high on Price tells me they either are crazy or they know their meta well and this will be a great choice for them. So I'll just say becareful.

    #2: 24 Lands also like BattleSpawn seems risky to me; but again you're not on an UGIN plan; so I think it should be ok.

    #3: Sidisi, Undead Vizier; I'm good with it, BattleSpawn makes a strong case for it; and I wish I could find a way to do that in my list... but I'm pretty set on it right now so I'll leave Sidisi out.

    #4: Obviously even you admit; your Sideboard could use some work... so I'll leave it at that.


    GOOD LUCK EVERYONE!


    Now; onto my most current list.



    NOTES:
    My original sideboard; the one I took last night needed a complete overhaul... What I didn't take into consideration is when I cut the EDICT creatures out of the deck; and also cut Sidisi out of the deck and then dropped down to 1 Palace Siege; I didn't have the synergy that it once had before. I still have great Synergy because of the Den Protectors; and there's still a Palace Siege but I'm not relying on them as key threats like I used to so much. So with that being said; having cards in the sideboard like Priest of the Blood Rite; with the idea that I can easily send the Priest to the yard and easily get it back to replay it over and over again... that synergy is gone or less prevalent... The same is true with the choice of Archfiend of Depravity... So those got the AXE with this more focused build.

    x2 Abhorrent Overloard (Sideboard) - I really like this to break up Token Decks; I feel like between Tokens or Thopter strategies; I can out Token them and create a gummed up stalemate type of board state. And when that happens; plays like Gray Merchant with an established board can and will win the game. Being able to also Sacrifice the Overlord to his Upkeep ability to prevent Damage; only to Den Protector or Palace Siege or Liliana it back to replay it again and again is great. I plan to bring this guy in VS Control as just another way to apply pressure and finish games; Liliana would come in as well so he'll easily be able to FLIP her on his own. I also plan to bring Overlord in VS Midrange Decks; again things like Dragons get chump blocked by 1/1 Tokens; you just end up out grinding them and being able to go wider then they can.

    x3 Liliana, Heretical Healer (Sideboard) - I really like this VS Red Decks; they must burn it out and kill it; if they don't she gains life; is a great chump blocker; and then when she flips punishes them if they're trying to sandbag. Generally VS Red Aggressive decks; I'll be honest; I rarely want to flip her immediately; I kinda like having her hang out for a little bit to gain me 2 life and provide some chump blocking; OR: if they burn her out with a Strike or Stoke; I'm happy with that exchange too. I also will bring her in VS Control decks; but VS control the goal is to absolutely flip her as soon as possible. WHY? Well because Thoughtseize + Duress only go so far; you use those to kill their Card Advantage taking Digs, Treasure Cruises, Jace's Ingenuity, or even Den Protectors. Then get a Flipped Lilly going; and clean out the rest of their hand. It's hella effective in Grindy matchups VS Control when I have Den Protectors to get back things that I might be discarding too.

    Everything else has either been beaten to the ground enough by either myself; or others... so I'll let the rest speak for itself.

    I'm insanely happy now with where the deck has shifted; I wasn't super convinced early yesterday but just bouncing alot of different things around with BattleSpawn caused me to re-focus my list a bit; and when I played it yesterday and I saw it dominate 3 rounds VS good pilots and good decks; while also feeling how powerful the deck is... I feel like I potentially am onto something and feel really good about rocking this now going forward.

    I really want my Playset of Serum Visions for FNM August promo; if I was still unsettled with how this deck was running; I would have gone a different direction for sure...

    But i'm definitely settled; and I'm confident this could do the trick...

    CHEERS to everyone whose helped; and for everyone running similar lists and working towards GAME DAY!!! I wish you the best of luck!!!!!
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • 1

    posted a message on MBC - Mono Black Control is Back?
    So here's what I ended up rocking tonight to a 1st Place 3 and 0 finish.



    WIN 2-1 ROUND 1 VS UB Midrange
    -Was an interesting deck; played some cheap creatures; sorta aggro; but then rounded out to Silumgar and Dragonlord Silumgar; I treated it like a Midrange deck.
    Sideboard IN +Crux of Fate
    Sideboard OUT -1 Gray Merchant and -1 Bile Blight.

    WIN 2-0 ROUND 2 VS Mono Red
    -Prototypical Red Deck that is a Tier 1 deck.
    Sideboard IN +4 Liliana, Heretical Healer
    Sideboard OUT -4 Thoughtseize

    WIN 2-0 ROUND 3 VS Abzan Control
    -Prototypical Tier 1 Abzan Control. I answer 3 Elspeths in Game 1 and Game 2 just locked the board up with Palace Siege; 2 Den Protectors going in and out getting Thoughtseizes; and Liliana on board with a Titan. It was bonkers; opponent conceded with 18 life.
    Sideboard IN +4 Liliana, +1 Duress, +1 Den Protector
    Sideboard OUT -1 Hangarback, -2 Erebos's Titan, -1 Gray Merchant, -1 Bile Blight, -1 Languish

    I think I found my list...

    I felt like the deck was very strong all night!

    The only Matchup that I foresee giving me fits will be UR Thopter Blast; and perhaps the Rally Matchup is still a bit rough as well.

    Some Game Notes:
    #1: Hangarback Walkers introduced to the deck... And boy they were great!!!!! GM1 they were huge in blocking down his smaller/midrange threats so I could wipe his board. They ended up eventually bringing me the game as well. In GM3 I had a 5/5 Hangarback that was threatening; I Thoughtseize to pull a counter from my opponent; I then Double Languish to wipe his board of a Silumgar and make 5 Thopter Tokens that finished out the game. Hangarbacks were also VERY VERY good and key in the Mono Red GM1 win; GM2 I felt much better VS them regardless how it played out. Liliana ended up being the hero in GM2 win.

    #2: Erebos's Titan was legit!!!!! Fast clock! Forces opponents to play their removal awkwardly if it happens to resolve on them. Also; Erebos's Titan VS Green Den Protector decks?????? YES PLEASE!!!

    #3: Gray Merchant; do I really need to say anything?? Everybody knows what this card can do; with 4 Titans backing it up; it's insanely good.... That's really all that's needed; Turn 4 Titan; Turn 5 Gary; Drain 5; Languish to wipe the board and bring back Gary or cast another? Yea it's solid.

    #4: Den Protectors; geez... This card is busted; instead of Den Protector; I'm renaming this card to "Value Town".

    #5: Mainboard Thoughtseize was amazingly good!!!! I haven't had mainboard Thoughtseize in a long time; I forgot how awesome Thoughtseize is.

    #6: 4 Downfall; 4 Blights; 4 Languish = Aggro Decks Worst Nightmare (+2 Crux of Fate) = Midrange Decks Worst Nightmare

    #7: The LONE Palace Siege feels/looks awkward to me; but in Round 3 VS the Abzan Player... Wow it was totally amazing; I felt like NOTHING could really go wrong. Having 2 Den Protectors; a Lilly; a Titan; Languish and a Siege? I felt like even if he destroys Siege; or Lilly; I'm still good because I'll get any of that back. Once Palace Siege resolved; he thought "DRAGONS right?" I said haha; no... Khans, then started playing Den Protectors? What's he going to do? Kill my Titan? Den Protector? Lilly? I return it back with KHANS Siege? Play it again? LOL #ValueTown

    ...those were all definitely KEY KEY cards tonight
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • 1

    posted a message on MBC - Mono Black Control is Back?


    Updated!

    EDIT: Updated again; taking this tonight.

    Started to do some thingking; working with Battle on the side and looking at different things; it helped me make some needed slight tweeks to this list.

    Erebos, God of the Dead ---> CUT: Basically he's Erebos's Titan; an Indestructible Beater; but he doesn't provide the kind of Devotion that Titan does; and he doesn't have the clause that makes him come back that Titan does; and with as speedy as the format seems to be becoming; I feel we're better off tapping out on Turn 4 for a Titan knowing that Gray Merchant is getting cast the turn after hopefully and at the very least gaining 5 for starters.

    x1 Palace Siege ---> CUT: It's just not fast enough right now; I think Battle may have been on the right track and I talked him out of it. VS the speedy Decks; we're usually always going to be doing SIEGE = DRAGONS; VS the Control/Midrangey Decks; almost always the best thing is Siege = KHANS. Now that I've added Den Protector to the mix; those can bring back creatures as well as anything else; so we're relying less on the KHANS side of Siege. With Gray Merchant; we're relying less on the DRAGONS side of Siege. So I think 1 is plenty to bolster the strategy depending upon the matchup.

    x1 Sidisi, Undead Vizier ---> CUT: Again; the format has become faster and getting faster; tapping out on Turn 5 to EXPLOIT a Sidisi fetching up something we can't cast till the next turn feels very very slow in this current meta game. I added a 3rd Gray Merchant instead.

    Summary:
    -1 Erebos, God of the Dead ---> +1 Erebos's Titan
    -1 Sidisi, Undead Vizier ---> +1 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
    -1 Palace Siege ---> +1 Read the Bones

    ADDITIONAL CONSIDERATIONS:
    -1 Sidisi (NONE Main) ---> +1 Gray Merchant (4 Total Mainboard)
    -1 Palace Siege (NONE Main ---> +1 Den Protector (3 Total Mainboard)
    Posted in: Standard Archives
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