Seriously though, this dude's bonkersness is only beaten by the absurdly OP creatures some people come up with. A guaranteed Tidings and Reminisce (with the only exception of something like Dissipate or Leyline of the Void) on top of a 12/12 that hits your opponent with FOUR Super Cruel Edicts when it attacks? WTF.
Whoops, thought this was a legend. Man you can have more than ONE of these on the board? Yikes.
Why would you want to, though? Absent a handful of indestructibility effects, they'd blow each other up if they both attack (or one the other if only one attacks), and they won't have creatures with which to hurt you anyway.
Pretty much why this wurm is awesome, and a reason for me to go to the release.
Some day this will happen, and I will giggle:
[CARD]
Admonition Angel[/CARD] on the board.
Drop a fetchland. In response to the Angel's trigger (targeting their best permanent) crack the fetch. Then play Harrow in response to the next trigger. Four triggers on the stack (targeting their 4 best permanents) play momentary blink on admonition angel. Lol.
And then, to add insult to injury, Bribery them for their best creature. Lol some moor!
I'm actually excited for the red-love they're showing at the moment. I love mono-red EDH, and it would make my day to not get curbstomped all the time forever.
Nothing feels mythic about this at all. Maybe if it was uncounterable or damage couldn't prevented it might be more justifiable, but that's just awful.
Just gonna say that either of those on here would be bananas, and exactly what I meant by "ribonkulous bomb that's not a permanent."
Not that I wouldn't completely **** myself with glee and OMFG if I saw one of those on the card.
In the spectrum of Banefire to Starstorm, this lands smack in the middle. Banerie is best when you want a brute-force finisher straight to the dome; Starstorm is a powerhouse sweeper. Comet Storm can do both, sacrificing some power for s boost in utility. That trade-out, though, is not worth a Mythic rarity. This is definitely rare and a very powerful spell to boot, but in my mind no non-permanent spell will ever have the feel that something like Eldrazi Monument or Darksteel Colossus or Iona has. Unless Wizards decides to seriously up the ante and make some ribonkulous bomb that's not a permanent.
I see this becoming a staple in EDH red, and something to snag one or two of for my Planechase set (since it seems like it might drop to $2 or even $1.)
Exactly that--Trinisphere, Sphere of Resistance, and things of that nature, since they obliterate the usefulness of Thopter and your countermagic. Also, Aether Vial was incredibly irritating, since it gets things in under Standstill. I countered stuff when I could, but I often found myself without a counter on hand when I really needed it.
After some testing on MWS, I noticed that FNS has a HUGE problem with resolved things that aren't creatures. I know you're not supposed to let that happen, but I don't often draw a whole lot of countermagic, and I draw Standstill far less than I need to. I'm going to test Chain of Vapor to see how it goes.
I was under the impression EDH is a casual fun format, not one where you go for infinite combos that insta-win the game. So amadi, all of your arguments contingent on everyone around the table being a prick. Doing a tooth for those 2 cards in my group would result in nobody playing with you again. If we wanted to play superslick instacombos we'd go play vintage or legacy.
And that's your group's preference. Each group has it's own likes and dislikes, but it's your attitudes and reactions towards the dislikes that affect your perceptions of the cards stoking your ire. My group LOVES playing with massive bombs and huge combos, because to us they're hilarious and it's entertaining to watch. EDH is where we can let our inner Johnnies out and play those ridiculous combos that have huge effects and have fun through appreciating the interactions between the cards.
When one of my group plays his Intet deck and drops Kiki-Jiki + Pestermite, I FFFFFFFFFUUUUUUU while laughing, and then we play another game. I might beat him with my Adamaro deck, maybe not; it doesn't matter, becase we're both having fun. Similarly, another one in my group used Gifts before it was on the suggested banlist--every time he played it, good-natured groans would resound from the table, and then we'd concentrate on what he was gifting to make sure we could answer his plays in some way. By the same token, I'm the only one that plays proxies in my EDH simply because I have nowhere near the resources to actually acquire any of them ATM. No one minds that I run some of the best colorless producers in the game and they don't--they have answers for them, and don't get bent out of shape when I have strong cards that help me swing for huge.
I know this will sound condescending, but you should try to alter your perspective on your gameplay before banning cards. Try to, as many others have said here, to find answers to the things that irritate you or that you can't work around with your current builds before nixing cards out of spite.
If you agree that MOST games are based on minor damage, and that a player can be hurt but then stabilize later, and that sometimes you don't tap all your lands and play a threat, then you see pulse is a VERY strong card that negates a huge part of the game.
The problem is, most EDH players don't agree with that assertion. Maybe it's just your meta, but when my friends first brought my into EDH, I was taught that since EDH is generally slower, go for bigger effects since you'll generally be able to play them and especially since my opponents would be doing the same. I keep that in mind whenever I set about making a new EDH deck. For my Adamaro build, I stuffed in as many things as I could that would either burn them for huge, make my few creatures huge and swingy, or help me with the resources I need to do the first two things. Adamaro can usually hit for 5-6 the turn after I drop him, and it's usually more since I have enough equipment to reliably drop before he comes out. I get a hit or two in, he gets killed, and then I have to recharge before trying to hit them again. I try to make the most of him--so I play lollercoaster multiplayer cards like Furnace of Rath and Font of Mythos that help everyone equally and can swing the gamestate wildly in any direction, but have a specific purpose how they help me. I can't tell you how many games I've played with Adamaro that turn into complete lolfests because I have out a Furnace, Font, a Howling Mine, and a Gauntlet of Might with other people at the board playing red, and huge massive combos and bombs are going off every turn. Oftentimes I'm one of the losers simply because I don't have as much combo as the others--and yet I'm still laughing my ass off as I take lethal damage.
That is what I think casual play should be like--ridiculous combos, lulzy plays, and no one getting butthurt or ragequitting. Try laughing at your games like that--it'll work wonders for your enjoyment of the game as a whole, and may just give you some perspective on how you can work around that Pulse for the better.
What do you all think of adding in Attunement or Zombie Infestation? Others are talking about this, but my 2 cents is that the mana would never get there to make them work.
Attunement definitely not, since you have much better draw/discard outlets in Breakthrough, Coliseum, and DA.
I can kinda see Zombie Infestation being an alternative to PImp, but PImp is more versatile in that it can fly and that Ichorids can eat them. I could see Zombie Infestation possibly replacing a couple of Thugs and maybe a PImp or two as a means of salvaging a game from well-placed graveyard hate. It'd be a maindeck no-no in LED builds, though, since you're probably pitching your hand too early for the Infestation to be useful--it could be a board option, but it's competing with cards that will likely serve you much better.
As far as LED I am confused how you can play these sorceries unless you have Eternal Witness return them to your hand to use your UUU.
Indeed, and that's come up a few times in my goldfishing as well. Ideally, you want an LED, a land, a Breakthrough, and a couple of Dredgers in your hand. You play the Breakthrough for 0, crack the stone in response, and replace as many of those draws as you can with dredges; voila! you've just dredged a huge amount of your deck, often letting you pull those Narcomoebas out for a DR Zealot win with a bunch of hasty zombies. If you don't pull a Bridge by turn 2 (especially with that hand), something is dreadfully wrong and you're gonna need some shenanigans to salvage a win. Also, I don't normally hardcast a DA--it's too expensive that way, and it's much more convenient to flash it back with some dredgers in the yard.
I think LED works well and has a more desired dynamic for some players, but it is hard to conclude whether or not the non-LED deck cannot work as well given the testing in competitive play as opposed to just goldfishing to determine. What I don't like about goldfishing as a determination is there is no player responding.
I hear that. I'll make sure and test both builds properly before I go about getting the cards, but as of right now it looks like LED is what I want out of this deck.
I've been looking at this deck for a while now, and having read the entirety of this thread and goldfished thirty or so games with it, it seems to me that LED is incredibly powerful with this deck and I see no reason to play without it. Yes, it's expensive, but to me it seems worth it. LED off of a DR Witness has turned my deck into zombies, every time.
In that vein, I'm also going to vociferously defend SurgingChaos' stand on Eternal Witness, even to suggest running two. I tried Cephalis Sage builds, and found that they weren't as effective as they could have been --they let me finish dredging my deck, but came close to running me out of steam. Witness-LED consistently let me dredge the deck in one go more often than Sage. Granted, I haven't tested the Sphinx too extensively yet, but I don't think there'll be too much of a difference.
I also noticed that a 4-2 split of LED and DA was inconsistent for me--I often found myself with a not-so-useful LED when I really needed the DA. I also found that I almost never had the LED-Breakthrough bomb, which was irritating to no end. I tried a 3-3-3 split, and I'm much happier with the result, especially with the extra Witness I use.
Also, I have trouble goldfishing games 2 and 3, simply because it's hard for me to visualize what I'm supposed to be doing taking-care-of-threats-wise. If anyone could help me with this, it would be most appreciated!
My bad on Adamaro in the creatures--that's supposed to be Anger. I pulled Ma Chao from the Adamaro build since it makes more sense to find ways to give Adamaro haste.
The only thing I can think of right now that could benefit you is swapping Jayemdae Tome for Candles of Leng, since Highlander formats negate the Candles' drawback and since you can have that card draw earlier, if you need it.
So I noticed when testing my Ma Chao EDH build that Ma Chao didn't actually do much of the work as far as killing my opponents went. Most of the time, it was one of the other legends in the deck that simply strapped on a bunch of equipment and beat my opponent's face in in a couple of hits. Adamaro seemed to excel at this, especially with a Whispersilk Cloak on him. I decided to tweak the build for Adamaro, and this is what came out:
Tru dat.
Seriously though, this dude's bonkersness is only beaten by the absurdly OP creatures some people come up with. A guaranteed Tidings and Reminisce (with the only exception of something like Dissipate or Leyline of the Void) on top of a 12/12 that hits your opponent with FOUR Super Cruel Edicts when it attacks? WTF.
Why would you want to, though? Absent a handful of indestructibility effects, they'd blow each other up if they both attack (or one the other if only one attacks), and they won't have creatures with which to hurt you anyway.
Pretty much why this wurm is awesome, and a reason for me to go to the release.
And then, to add insult to injury, Bribery them for their best creature. Lol some moor!
I'm actually excited for the red-love they're showing at the moment. I love mono-red EDH, and it would make my day to not get curbstomped all the time forever.
Just gonna say that either of those on here would be bananas, and exactly what I meant by "ribonkulous bomb that's not a permanent."
Not that I wouldn't completely **** myself with glee and OMFG if I saw one of those on the card.
I see this becoming a staple in EDH red, and something to snag one or two of for my Planechase set (since it seems like it might drop to $2 or even $1.)
And that's your group's preference. Each group has it's own likes and dislikes, but it's your attitudes and reactions towards the dislikes that affect your perceptions of the cards stoking your ire. My group LOVES playing with massive bombs and huge combos, because to us they're hilarious and it's entertaining to watch. EDH is where we can let our inner Johnnies out and play those ridiculous combos that have huge effects and have fun through appreciating the interactions between the cards.
When one of my group plays his Intet deck and drops Kiki-Jiki + Pestermite, I FFFFFFFFFUUUUUUU while laughing, and then we play another game. I might beat him with my Adamaro deck, maybe not; it doesn't matter, becase we're both having fun. Similarly, another one in my group used Gifts before it was on the suggested banlist--every time he played it, good-natured groans would resound from the table, and then we'd concentrate on what he was gifting to make sure we could answer his plays in some way. By the same token, I'm the only one that plays proxies in my EDH simply because I have nowhere near the resources to actually acquire any of them ATM. No one minds that I run some of the best colorless producers in the game and they don't--they have answers for them, and don't get bent out of shape when I have strong cards that help me swing for huge.
I know this will sound condescending, but you should try to alter your perspective on your gameplay before banning cards. Try to, as many others have said here, to find answers to the things that irritate you or that you can't work around with your current builds before nixing cards out of spite.
The problem is, most EDH players don't agree with that assertion. Maybe it's just your meta, but when my friends first brought my into EDH, I was taught that since EDH is generally slower, go for bigger effects since you'll generally be able to play them and especially since my opponents would be doing the same. I keep that in mind whenever I set about making a new EDH deck. For my Adamaro build, I stuffed in as many things as I could that would either burn them for huge, make my few creatures huge and swingy, or help me with the resources I need to do the first two things. Adamaro can usually hit for 5-6 the turn after I drop him, and it's usually more since I have enough equipment to reliably drop before he comes out. I get a hit or two in, he gets killed, and then I have to recharge before trying to hit them again. I try to make the most of him--so I play lollercoaster multiplayer cards like Furnace of Rath and Font of Mythos that help everyone equally and can swing the gamestate wildly in any direction, but have a specific purpose how they help me. I can't tell you how many games I've played with Adamaro that turn into complete lolfests because I have out a Furnace, Font, a Howling Mine, and a Gauntlet of Might with other people at the board playing red, and huge massive combos and bombs are going off every turn. Oftentimes I'm one of the losers simply because I don't have as much combo as the others--and yet I'm still laughing my ass off as I take lethal damage.
That is what I think casual play should be like--ridiculous combos, lulzy plays, and no one getting butthurt or ragequitting. Try laughing at your games like that--it'll work wonders for your enjoyment of the game as a whole, and may just give you some perspective on how you can work around that Pulse for the better.
Attunement definitely not, since you have much better draw/discard outlets in Breakthrough, Coliseum, and DA.
I can kinda see Zombie Infestation being an alternative to PImp, but PImp is more versatile in that it can fly and that Ichorids can eat them. I could see Zombie Infestation possibly replacing a couple of Thugs and maybe a PImp or two as a means of salvaging a game from well-placed graveyard hate. It'd be a maindeck no-no in LED builds, though, since you're probably pitching your hand too early for the Infestation to be useful--it could be a board option, but it's competing with cards that will likely serve you much better.
Indeed, and that's come up a few times in my goldfishing as well. Ideally, you want an LED, a land, a Breakthrough, and a couple of Dredgers in your hand. You play the Breakthrough for 0, crack the stone in response, and replace as many of those draws as you can with dredges; voila! you've just dredged a huge amount of your deck, often letting you pull those Narcomoebas out for a DR Zealot win with a bunch of hasty zombies. If you don't pull a Bridge by turn 2 (especially with that hand), something is dreadfully wrong and you're gonna need some shenanigans to salvage a win. Also, I don't normally hardcast a DA--it's too expensive that way, and it's much more convenient to flash it back with some dredgers in the yard.
I hear that. I'll make sure and test both builds properly before I go about getting the cards, but as of right now it looks like LED is what I want out of this deck.
In that vein, I'm also going to vociferously defend SurgingChaos' stand on Eternal Witness, even to suggest running two. I tried Cephalis Sage builds, and found that they weren't as effective as they could have been --they let me finish dredging my deck, but came close to running me out of steam. Witness-LED consistently let me dredge the deck in one go more often than Sage. Granted, I haven't tested the Sphinx too extensively yet, but I don't think there'll be too much of a difference.
I also noticed that a 4-2 split of LED and DA was inconsistent for me--I often found myself with a not-so-useful LED when I really needed the DA. I also found that I almost never had the LED-Breakthrough bomb, which was irritating to no end. I tried a 3-3-3 split, and I'm much happier with the result, especially with the extra Witness I use.
4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
4 Cephalid Coliseum
Creatures—27
4 Ichorid
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Narcomoeba
3 Golgari Thug
2 Eternal Witness
1 Flame-Kin Zealot
1 Sphinx of Lost Truths
4 Bridge from Below
4 Dread Return
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Lion’s Eye Diamond
3 Deep Analysis
3 Breakthrough
4 Pithing Needle
3 Firestorm
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Ray of Revelation
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Ancestor’s Chosen
Also, I have trouble goldfishing games 2 and 3, simply because it's hard for me to visualize what I'm supposed to be doing taking-care-of-threats-wise. If anyone could help me with this, it would be most appreciated!
My bad on Adamaro in the creatures--that's supposed to be Anger. I pulled Ma Chao from the Adamaro build since it makes more sense to find ways to give Adamaro haste.
1 Adamaro, First to Desire
Creatures—13
1 Akroma, Angel of Fury
1 Godo, Bandit Warlord
1 Dong Zhou, the Tyrant
1 Rorix Bladewing
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Anger
1 Bogardan Hellkite
1 Avatar of Fury
1 Capricious Efreet
1 Taurean Mauler
1 Hellkite Charger
1 Yuan Shao’s Infantry
1 Zodiac Dragon
Equipment—13
1 Quietus Spike
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Sword of Kaldra
1 Shield of Kaldra
1 Helm of Kaldra
1 Loxodon Warhammer
1 Spellbinder
1 Fireshrieker
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
1 Whispersilk Cloak
1 Tenza, Godo’s Maul
1 Lavaball Trap
1 Obliterate
1 Volcanic Fallout
1 Starstorm
1 Flame Wave
Mana—41
30 Snow-Covered Mountains
1 Dwarven Ruins
1 Dwarven Hold
1 Gauntlet of Might
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Fellwar Stone
1 Grim Monolith
1 Doubling Cube
1 Basalt Monolith
1 Ruby Medallion
Burn—9
1 Banefire
1 Demonfire
1 Skred
1 Goblin Charbelcher
1 Searing Wind
1 Gaze of Adamaro
1 Runeflare Trap
1 Knollspine Invocation
1 Savage Beating
1 Relentless Assault
1 Fatal Frenzy
Other—5
1 Furnace of Rath
1 Gratuitous Violence
1 Braid of Fire
1 Final Fortune
1 Reiterate
Card Advantage—8
1 Sensei’s Divining Top
1 Candles of Leng
1 Teferi’s Puzzle Box
1 Control of the Court
1 Goblin Lore
1 Library of Leng
1 Howling Mine
1 Font of Mythos
Tutors—2
1 Planar Portal
1 Gamble
Planeswalkers—1
1 Chandra Ablaze
I find that this works pretty well, but I'm always open to suggestions!