But does that mean that if she and again let's say two other creatures are on the field and we drop a sweeper, does her ability activate? Leaving two 1/1 flying spirit tokens on the field?
I was considering swapping out my manor gargoyles for the new Requiem Angel. It makes all of your creatures doomed travelers, even shrine spawn. Opinion?
Now Im not a rules master, but wouldnt her own ability trigger if she were to die?
Furthermore if she was on the field with lets say 2 other creatures and the board was swept, does that mean that 3 1/1 flying spirit tokens would be left behind?
If thats the case then yea I can see her value, otherwise Im a little hesitant, due to the fact that a) shes 6 mana and b) shes a creature herself and us sweeping the board would be counter productive
P.S. Ronin, did you jack my custom paintshop-cropped Lily's Specter icon?
No, at least I didnt mean to. I downloaded the pic and cropped it myself, guess great minds think a like.
So with the Rangers and possible other cards that could ramp, Cultivate and Garruk Wildspeaker, what other color should we add? In testing White or Blue has proved the best two colors, beyond Black. With the addition of White we get a sweeper, DoJ, good Planeswalkers, Gideon and Elspeth, an early on blocker, WoO, a manland, Stirring, and a recur engine, Sun Titan. With Blue we get draw, Preordain and Sea Gate, Planeswalker, JtMS, counters, Mana Leak and Deprive, and a manland, Tar Pit.
I think adding White will make it even more of a Mid-Range type deck while Blue creates a more Control oriented deck. Its late and its been a long day, Ill throw a list together tomorrow and post it.
Pieced this together today, did some playing and a bit of altering. I did quite well against several different decks, but was left more with a "this SHOULD work..." than "this totally works!!"
So this deck centers around Mimic vat and tries to get your creatures on it.
Lilianas specter, Skinrender and Hexmage have already proved themselves to make a nice Vat combo - Lilianas makes your opponent discard a card a turn, and Skinrender kills his creatures or weakens them. Skinrender can also take down Liliana, Hexmage or even itself for use with the Vat.
The slightly fresher ideas for creatures are Viscera seer and Mitotic slime. Viscera can sac your creatures for the Vat at your leisure, or if your opponent tries to take them down. It can even sac itself for a bit of skrying, should you need it. I found myself doing just that a few times in testing. Mitotic slime can be bonkers in this deck. With the Vat out: Sac it to Viscera or even kill it with Doom blade or Grasp of darkness and you are left with a pair of 2/2s that will turn into 1/1s if destroyed in addition ofcourse to having the slime hastily attacking under the Vat.
Momentous fall is another Sac outlet - and to Sac a Slime to end up with 2 2/2s, a 4/4 under the Vat, 4 life and 4 cards... Well, thats an awesome feeling!
Still, i feel like i could use some help here.
Ok first is Mitotic Slime. NOw while the idea is good, it only works with a sac outlet. Now yes you have Seer and Fall, but without them the card does nothing. Many people originally played with Wurmcoil Engine, trying to make the sac engine work, unfortunately it was just not reliable enough, and he can even be a 6 point life swing!
Another card that ws tested and removed was Viscera Seer. He does not sync well with the Vat and only really works against your CA.
Skinrender is still up in the air and there has been much debate over him. In the B/W versions he usually does not fit as you obtain so much board control he is usually dropped against an empty field, which does you no good. Now in a G/B version that uses more ramp, instead of control, he may just fit. My only concern is that he is competing for the 4-drop slot, which I think Abyssal Persecutor should fill, not to say you cant do a 2/2 or even a 2/3 split.
Another card that has been debated over is Vampire Hexmage. Testing still has not shown weather she is MD or SB material, I personally believe she is SB material, but other disagree. The same discussion has been started about Memoricide.
Been working on a BG Mimic list for some time and so far it's survived most of the gauntlet grinding. While the archetype is the same as yours many of our card choices differ. For reference:
Fauna Shaman needs no justification and fits in nicely because not only does it let you abuse all of your ETB triggers, it also helps fuel the Vat. Want Acidic Slime imprinted? Fetch Skinrender. Need to kill a planeswalker each turn? Fetch Hexmage and let Vat do the rest. And no aggro deck can ever hope to race an imprinted Obstinate Baloth which is part of the 1-of shaman toolbox. The package provides a great deal of reach which, as you're generally playing the role of control, is what's needed.
As for sideboard, the 1-ofs are there to replace parts of the toolbox (baloth and hexmage in particular) that isn't needed in a particular matchup. The Summoning Traps I bring in against Mana Leak.dec, Grasp of Darkness replaces Doom Blade when needed, while Ratchet Bomb, Disfigure and the remaining three Obstinate Baloths are there to fight the various modes of aggro.
It's still only a work in progress - something I play around with when my competitive decks are not my main concern - but I think there's hope for the archetype. With a bit of work on the removal package and a more finely tuned shaman toolbox I think the deck could become competitive.
I agree with Mike, way too much ramp.
Futhermore Fauna Shaman does not feed the Vat, as it has to leave the battlefield in order to be imprinted.
I also like the idea of the Baloth on the Vat, but again he is competing for the 4-drop slot with Render and Percy. Although he could def be a SB option.
So with these observations in mind this is the deck Iv thrown together-
So Iv been thinking, not quite sure why, about the U/B Control decks that have been topping the meta. I started thinking, what would a U/B Vat deck look like. And I came up with this-
Anyone have ideas for a good sac engine? I dig Percy but I feel the need for a sac engine in case of a mirror match (enemy vats) or need to pitch my lovely Percy after he's beaten my opponent into -200 lives. I usually curse my doom blades and condemn him, but I digress, Culling Dias or something else wacky/saccy would be nice.
One of the main problems this deck can face is a lack of card draw, at least when you dont run blue. Therefore I honestly think Culling Dias is one of the better sac engines for this deck. It draws you cards and cant be recurred with Sun Titan. My only concern is that it can be a horrid top-deck late game.
First off Id like to thank 7H0R, Lobsterkraw, shiver, and Typezro for the awesome reports. Thanks guys and keep them coming. I think this deck def has potential in this new meta and there is no reason, save maybe Valakut :argh:, that we cant be #1.
Well, again I have not had much testing with my deck as of yet, though I will have better ideas after this evening. Interesting thoughts on Wurmcoil Engine and Grave Titan vs Baneslayer. As for Frost Titan, don't underestimate his abilities, especially if under a Mimic vat or with Venser, the Sojourner in play. I see really big similarities b/t Venser and Mimic Vat. They both abuse "come into play" abilities, effectively doubling the Vat's shenanigans.
Dont get me wrong I think Venser is a strong card he just hasnt found his home yet. My original list had him, but unfortunately the only ability I was using was his +2, which does work well with Vat, the only problem is that its SORCERY speed. I found more often than not that I just wanted something else when I drew him.
Except in a deck like Lux Cannon Control the idea is to lock them down using Lux Cannon, and slowly end up beating them. If you are dropping a Frost Titan that doesn't mean you are going to win right away. You still have to be methodical because it is, first and foremost, a control deck. If you are sitting there blowing up their lands, and tapping them down with Frost Titan they're not going to be able to do anything. It's also harder to remove.
I dont discredit Frosts abilities. In this new meta I think he is one of th most underrated cards, especially among the titans. I just dont think he fits this deck. If I drop a titan, like I said I expect to win in a few turns. Either my opponent wont kill it, ok I win, or they do and I Vat it, ok I still win. Frost does a great job at controlling the board, and yes he can win, but it takes more time, which is why I think Grave, Sun, and even Wurmcoil are better choices, for this deck anyway.
Question: Am I the only one still running percy in this deck? When did he stop being awesome?
As of right now I think you are still the only one that runs Percy in this deck. Its not that he isnt good, I ran him for a long time. The problem is that there are just so many other cards that sync better with this deck. Now if you were to go Mono-B Vat Control then I would highly suggest Percy. But running any dual color deck, he just doesnt have the ETB ability like the others.
20 does seem a bit high to me, though my deck has not seen much testing as of yet. I actually pulled the WOO from my deck as I have 7 other 2 drops that can hold the board (3 vampire hexmage, 4 doom blade), and my meta seems to be playing 1 RDW and 2 ramp and everything else U/W control. I am stretching over 3 colors though, so I needed the extra room. My creature pool looks like this:
First off you cant ignore the cantrip that WoO presents. Yes he does get boarded out against U/W and U/B control most of the time, but I still think he is a vital aspect of the deck.
Also understand that while there is, and probably always will be, great debate between Wurmcoil and Grave, Baneslayer should never be in that comparison. Baneslayer is one-drop earlier and presents no CA. Completely different league from Wurmcoil and Grave.
Next Im not sure I like the inclusion of Frost. Frost looks great in a deck like RUg D-Force to help you stabilize and control the board after the Force hits. However in this deck if I make it to 6-mana and drop a Titan, I better win within a few turns. Frost just doesnt give us that punch nor the CA of say Grave or Sun, or even Wurmcoil if the deck is built right.
Wow, this thread has moved on! So many things to comment on...
1. I would not drop white with BSA (which I run 4 of, because she is that good again) and DoJ even if Patrick Chapin says so... I'm that stubborn. I'm however in no hurry to add blue. I don't have any JtMS anyway, and I have one nice counter that replaces Mana Leak, and does not use blue mana - it's named Duress.
Yes Duress is a great counter, but it only works if they have what you want in their hand when you play Duress. Mana Leak on the other hand can be held and is more reactive as opposed to the proactive Duress.
2. Please explain if you will, why most of your lists have Inquisition of Kozilek in it instead of Duress? What low cost creatures are so crucial to remove instead of JtMS, Gideon, other Walkers or Eldrazi Monument?
I run Duress, MD, and Vampire Hexmage, SB, walkers dont bother me at all. In fact I should probably change Duress to Inquisition of Kozilek to help stem the onslaught thats is RDW, Elf, and WW Quest. But then again thats why I run WoO, DoJ, and Baneslayer. Usually if I can get to turn 5 and drop a Baneslayer with these decks, they just fold.
3. Grave Titan was probably the first card synergized by players with Mimic Vat and I'm gonna keep it that way. White Titan is also great but it has to work hard to prove it's better than Wurmcoil Engine. 12 points life swing with two leftover bodies (when killed, I know how it works with the Vat) is nothing to ignore.
I prefer Sun Titan to help recur my creatures, as I wont always have Vat out. Furthermore with Wurmcoil Engine only working if it hits the graveyard, and every white deck running Revoke Existence, he looses a lot of his charm.
4. The lists I see run 13-15 creatures if not more. I don't agree that it should be complemented with 4 DoJ. Three if not two main should be enough (the top archetype right now is supposed to be control right?)
I have a tendency to agree with this point, mainly due to the fact that my deck operates in this fashion.
5. Like point 2 - please explain why is Skinrender so often skipped in your lists?
I tried Skinrender and the problem was that a lot of the time he sat in my hand as a dead card. With all the "counters" and removal this type of deck can pack, many times I was looking across at an empty board. Or look at B/U Control, who only pack 2-6 creatures maindeck in order to render their opponents removal useless, which in essence Skinrender is. Yes hes good against Monument and Indestructibility, but thats why I run JtMS and ItR, along with Leak. To make sure that even if something does hit the table, I have a sure fire way of getting it off.
Your list seems so tight on space, I'm not sure where I would even put 1 Preordain. Maybe take out the Into the Roils and 1 Duress for 3? I only run 3 Inquisition of Kozilek. I personally have missed with Duress much more than the inquisition. It may just be my meta.
Agreed, which is why I was asking for suggestions. To be honest I had the same thought, and am definitely going to have to test with it. My only concern is that ItR works soo well with the Specter, as well as Duress. Furthermore it allows me to bounce pesky objects such as Monument. Definitely still open to other suggestions though.
EXACTLY, so why do you insist on running Sun Titan to get back the Vat? Sun Titan just hasn't been very good thus far. Wurmcoil Engine would be a fantastic idea, however, the fact that he doesn't ever leave anything "behind" sucks: If you imprint him on the Vat, you have a 6/6 Deathtouch Lifelinker every turn. At the end of every turn, you have 0 threats on the board. Grave Titan is a 6/6 Deathtoucher that leaves you with FOUR 2/2's on the board at the end of EACH turn. This is an insanely fast clock.
Now thats also not to say that Sun is *necessary*. I feel he compliments the deck well, at least in my build, but thats not to say he optimal in yours. The deck can be run without him.
Baneslayer has won me too many games for me to be able to drop her.
Exactly why I still run white. Furthermore Mr.E's comments about WoO are all so true, even top deck it isnt bad, as it cantrips. Another thing white has that blue and black dont is a sweeper. Yes CtM is a sweeper but ask any black player, its terrible and only used because its the only option. Where as white has DoJ, which makes a huge difference. And yes white lost O-Ring but keeps JtN, awesome against Eldrazi, which just so happens to be a top deck at the moment.
Thus far, there haven't been a whole lot of things to get back with a Sun Titan. Usually the stuff I want to get back is already be imprinted on the Vat. I think changing out completely for Grave Titan isn't a terrible idea, at least just to try.
This was something I began to think about to. With only 7-8, possibly 10, creatures in my deck, I was thinking about cutting Sun. Then I realized he also retrieves the Vat, if any have been destroyed. Furthermore he can retrieve any Journeys, if you run them.
Lastly what happens if you dont have the Vat online? The Titan can recur something after you get the Vat online. Again the idea is to build a deck that the Vat compliments, not centered around, as many people have discovered it does not work.
I don't know what a blue splashing version decklist would look like. I personally do not like the addition of blue. I think Black and White are the best colors for this deck. You get everything you need. Having JTMS and a bit of control is nice (and expensive =S) but it just seems un-needed. This deck is already very resilient to aggro, has a decent matchup against control, main-boards the answers to mono-g eldrazi, honestly I don't know how this deck isn't top tier yet =\
This seems like a good 75. I'm going to bring this to FNM this week and see how well I do. I'll post results.
First off I really like the deck. And cant wait to see your results. My only suggestion would be to try and add Grave back in, definitely the best creature on the Vat. Possibly drop RB, to be honest, I think its too slow and only good against tokens and WW Quest. But again please let us know how it plays.
Furthermore I think the addition of blue gives the deck a lot more control. The ability to counter and bounce are strong, especially with all the discard this deck runs. Many people believe that this deck, B/W, is very strong. We already know U/W is strong and B/U just got 6 first places at states. So I wanted to see if I could combine the strengths of all three and create an Esper version. I actually think my last list is very strong and definitely going to playtest the crap out of it. Ill let you know.
To me it seems a little underwhelming.
Yes it's a resilient creature that has pseudo undying. But it's transformed side seems subpar.
Im also concerned about the double W.
Furthermore it competes with Perlious Myr and Mortarpod in some lists, at least in mine, and I don't think he is better than either card.
This is definitely a card that I think deserves testing in order to really see its uses.
But does that mean that if she and again let's say two other creatures are on the field and we drop a sweeper, does her ability activate? Leaving two 1/1 flying spirit tokens on the field?
Now Im not a rules master, but wouldnt her own ability trigger if she were to die?
Furthermore if she was on the field with lets say 2 other creatures and the board was swept, does that mean that 3 1/1 flying spirit tokens would be left behind?
If thats the case then yea I can see her value, otherwise Im a little hesitant, due to the fact that a) shes 6 mana and b) shes a creature herself and us sweeping the board would be counter productive
4 Vampire Hexmage
3 Sea Gate Oracle
3 Grave Titan
2 Abyssal Persecutor
Planeswalkers [3]
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Artifacts [3]
3 Mimic Vat
Spells [18]
4 Mana Leak
4 Duress
3 Jace's Ingenuity
3 Doom Blade
2 Into the Roil
2 Memoricide
4 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Drowned Catacomb
4 Darkslick Shores
5 Swamp
5 Island
2 Tectonic Edge
3 Flashfreeze
3 Disfigure
3 Consume the Meek
3 Volition Reins
3 Negate
I think this deck could be scary good.
No, at least I didnt mean to. I downloaded the pic and cropped it myself, guess great minds think a like.
So with the Rangers and possible other cards that could ramp, Cultivate and Garruk Wildspeaker, what other color should we add? In testing White or Blue has proved the best two colors, beyond Black. With the addition of White we get a sweeper, DoJ, good Planeswalkers, Gideon and Elspeth, an early on blocker, WoO, a manland, Stirring, and a recur engine, Sun Titan. With Blue we get draw, Preordain and Sea Gate, Planeswalker, JtMS, counters, Mana Leak and Deprive, and a manland, Tar Pit.
I think adding White will make it even more of a Mid-Range type deck while Blue creates a more Control oriented deck. Its late and its been a long day, Ill throw a list together tomorrow and post it.
Ok first is Mitotic Slime. NOw while the idea is good, it only works with a sac outlet. Now yes you have Seer and Fall, but without them the card does nothing. Many people originally played with Wurmcoil Engine, trying to make the sac engine work, unfortunately it was just not reliable enough, and he can even be a 6 point life swing!
Another card that ws tested and removed was Viscera Seer. He does not sync well with the Vat and only really works against your CA.
Skinrender is still up in the air and there has been much debate over him. In the B/W versions he usually does not fit as you obtain so much board control he is usually dropped against an empty field, which does you no good. Now in a G/B version that uses more ramp, instead of control, he may just fit. My only concern is that he is competing for the 4-drop slot, which I think Abyssal Persecutor should fill, not to say you cant do a 2/2 or even a 2/3 split.
Another card that has been debated over is Vampire Hexmage. Testing still has not shown weather she is MD or SB material, I personally believe she is SB material, but other disagree. The same discussion has been started about Memoricide.
I agree with Mike, way too much ramp.
Futhermore Fauna Shaman does not feed the Vat, as it has to leave the battlefield in order to be imprinted.
I also like the idea of the Baloth on the Vat, but again he is competing for the 4-drop slot with Render and Percy. Although he could def be a SB option.
So with these observations in mind this is the deck Iv thrown together-
4 Sylvan Ranger
3 Liliana's Specter
3 Skinrender
2 Acidic Slime
2 Abyssal Persecutor
2 Grave Titan
Artifacts [3]
3 Mimic Vat
Spells [17]
4 Duress
4 Doom Blade
3 Memoricide
3 Momentous Fall
3 Consuming Vapors
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Tectonic Edge
9 Swamp
9 Forest
3 Vampire Hexmage
3 Obstinate Baloth
3 Summoning Trap
3 Consume the Meek
3 Disfigure
4 Vampire Hexmage
3 Liliana's Specter
3 Grave Titan
2 Abyssal Persecutor
2 Mnemonic Wall
Planeswalkers [3]
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Artifacts [3]
3 Mimic Vat
Spells [16]
4 Duress
4 Mana Leak
3 Preordain
3 Doom Blade
2 Into the Roil
4 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Darkslick Shores
3 Drowned Catacomb
7 Island
7 Swamp
3 Memoricide
3 Flashfreeze
3 Consume the Meek
3 Disfigure
3 Volition Reins
What do you guys think?
4 Vampire Hexmage
3 Liliana's Specter
3 Grave Titan
2 Abyssal Persecutor
2 Mnemonic Wall
Planeswalkers [3]
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Artifacts [3]
3 Mimic Vat
Spells [16]
4 Duress
4 Mana Leak
3 Preordain
3 Doom Blade
2 Into the Roil
4 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Darkslick Shores
3 Drowned Catacomb
7 Island
7 Swamp
3 Memoricide
3 Flashfreeze
3 Consume the Meek
3 Disfigure
3 Volition Reins
Just some food for thought.
One of the main problems this deck can face is a lack of card draw, at least when you dont run blue. Therefore I honestly think Culling Dias is one of the better sac engines for this deck. It draws you cards and cant be recurred with Sun Titan. My only concern is that it can be a horrid top-deck late game.
Dont get me wrong I think Venser is a strong card he just hasnt found his home yet. My original list had him, but unfortunately the only ability I was using was his +2, which does work well with Vat, the only problem is that its SORCERY speed. I found more often than not that I just wanted something else when I drew him.
I dont discredit Frosts abilities. In this new meta I think he is one of th most underrated cards, especially among the titans. I just dont think he fits this deck. If I drop a titan, like I said I expect to win in a few turns. Either my opponent wont kill it, ok I win, or they do and I Vat it, ok I still win. Frost does a great job at controlling the board, and yes he can win, but it takes more time, which is why I think Grave, Sun, and even Wurmcoil are better choices, for this deck anyway.
As of right now I think you are still the only one that runs Percy in this deck. Its not that he isnt good, I ran him for a long time. The problem is that there are just so many other cards that sync better with this deck. Now if you were to go Mono-B Vat Control then I would highly suggest Percy. But running any dual color deck, he just doesnt have the ETB ability like the others.
First off you cant ignore the cantrip that WoO presents. Yes he does get boarded out against U/W and U/B control most of the time, but I still think he is a vital aspect of the deck.
Also understand that while there is, and probably always will be, great debate between Wurmcoil and Grave, Baneslayer should never be in that comparison. Baneslayer is one-drop earlier and presents no CA. Completely different league from Wurmcoil and Grave.
Next Im not sure I like the inclusion of Frost. Frost looks great in a deck like RUg D-Force to help you stabilize and control the board after the Force hits. However in this deck if I make it to 6-mana and drop a Titan, I better win within a few turns. Frost just doesnt give us that punch nor the CA of say Grave or Sun, or even Wurmcoil if the deck is built right.
Yes Duress is a great counter, but it only works if they have what you want in their hand when you play Duress. Mana Leak on the other hand can be held and is more reactive as opposed to the proactive Duress.
I run Duress, MD, and Vampire Hexmage, SB, walkers dont bother me at all. In fact I should probably change Duress to Inquisition of Kozilek to help stem the onslaught thats is RDW, Elf, and WW Quest. But then again thats why I run WoO, DoJ, and Baneslayer. Usually if I can get to turn 5 and drop a Baneslayer with these decks, they just fold.
I prefer Sun Titan to help recur my creatures, as I wont always have Vat out. Furthermore with Wurmcoil Engine only working if it hits the graveyard, and every white deck running Revoke Existence, he looses a lot of his charm.
I have a tendency to agree with this point, mainly due to the fact that my deck operates in this fashion.
I tried Skinrender and the problem was that a lot of the time he sat in my hand as a dead card. With all the "counters" and removal this type of deck can pack, many times I was looking across at an empty board. Or look at B/U Control, who only pack 2-6 creatures maindeck in order to render their opponents removal useless, which in essence Skinrender is. Yes hes good against Monument and Indestructibility, but thats why I run JtMS and ItR, along with Leak. To make sure that even if something does hit the table, I have a sure fire way of getting it off.
Agreed, which is why I was asking for suggestions. To be honest I had the same thought, and am definitely going to have to test with it. My only concern is that ItR works soo well with the Specter, as well as Duress. Furthermore it allows me to bounce pesky objects such as Monument. Definitely still open to other suggestions though.
Exactly why I only run 2 in my build. My bomb spread looks like this-
3 Baneslayer Angel
2 Sun Titan
2 Grave Titan
Now thats also not to say that Sun is *necessary*. I feel he compliments the deck well, at least in my build, but thats not to say he optimal in yours. The deck can be run without him.
Exactly why I still run white. Furthermore Mr.E's comments about WoO are all so true, even top deck it isnt bad, as it cantrips. Another thing white has that blue and black dont is a sweeper. Yes CtM is a sweeper but ask any black player, its terrible and only used because its the only option. Where as white has DoJ, which makes a huge difference. And yes white lost O-Ring but keeps JtN, awesome against Eldrazi, which just so happens to be a top deck at the moment.
Right now my deck looks like this-
4 Wall of Omens
3 Liliana's Specter
3 Baneslayer Angel
2 Sun Titan
2 Grave Titan
Planeswalkers [3]
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Artifacts [3]
3 Mimic Vat
Spells [16]
4 Duress
4 Mana Leak
3 Day of Judgment
3 Doom Blade
2 Into the Roil
4 Marsh Flats
3 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Glacial Fortress
3 Drowned Catacomb
2 Celestial Colonnade
3 Plains
3 Swamp
3 Island
3 Memoricide
3 Vampire Hexmage
3 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Revoke Existence
3 Journey to Nowhere
I still think the manabase needs a little work and I would love to fit in 4 Preordain, but cant seem to find where. Any suggestions?
This was something I began to think about to. With only 7-8, possibly 10, creatures in my deck, I was thinking about cutting Sun. Then I realized he also retrieves the Vat, if any have been destroyed. Furthermore he can retrieve any Journeys, if you run them.
Lastly what happens if you dont have the Vat online? The Titan can recur something after you get the Vat online. Again the idea is to build a deck that the Vat compliments, not centered around, as many people have discovered it does not work.
First off I really like the deck. And cant wait to see your results. My only suggestion would be to try and add Grave back in, definitely the best creature on the Vat. Possibly drop RB, to be honest, I think its too slow and only good against tokens and WW Quest. But again please let us know how it plays.
Furthermore I think the addition of blue gives the deck a lot more control. The ability to counter and bounce are strong, especially with all the discard this deck runs. Many people believe that this deck, B/W, is very strong. We already know U/W is strong and B/U just got 6 first places at states. So I wanted to see if I could combine the strengths of all three and create an Esper version. I actually think my last list is very strong and definitely going to playtest the crap out of it. Ill let you know.