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  • posted a message on [Official Thread] Grixis Control
    Never been a fan of the Needle.. but that's a good point.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [Official Thread] Grixis Control
    Quote from Averoth

    Let me know what you guys think... Not having real outs to Ascension is a pain and the sideboard really needs to be where you get to attack them.

    A little lost in translation there. I meant a way to attack Ascensions. I agree that an aggro plan is one of them but it leaves you open to losing your good sideboard matches against other decks. I'm still looking though.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [Official Thread] Grixis Control
    Here's the list I settled on for a local standard tournament here:

    I ended up taking out the Bolas since it really was just a pet card and he did nothing to a board where I was losing. In retrospect, I would have liked having him in there because I played against only 1 matchup where he would have been a bad draw.

    Taking out ITR was awkward at first but with the added card draw + counters, it was well worth it. That being said, I wish I had them since my only game losses were to turn 2 Luminarch Ascensions that I could not race with my man lands. I probably win the tournament, instead of finishing second, if I had those extra outs to Luminarch Ascensions. I also wish I had them against enemy Gideon Jura's

    The sideboard was good outside of the flashfreezes. Jund is falling out of favor and it performed VERY poorly at the tournament. Everyone that played blue packed the 4 of Spreading Seas and Jund got flattened. Flashfreeze is a dead card against Polymorph as it only really counters Garruk (which is alright but pretty narrow). It's decent against Summoning trap as it gets their traps and Avenger's and Walls, but still is pretty narrow. I don't know what I'd play... maybe duress or some way to deal with Planeswalkers

    As I expected, almost half the field was some form of Polymorph or Summoning Trap. The former of which is a bye since they actually do nothing to affect your game plan. I gained 15 life off my Consuming Vapors multiple times during the tournament. Also won quite a few sideboarded games on the back of turn 5 Telemin Performance for Emrakul.

    The wall underperformed for me as well. I was hoping it would be Cruel #4 but often times I found myself wishing it were either Jace 4 or Sorin 2 or anything else that was less than a 4 of. Never got to Cruel with it in play and then Jace it back to my hand. Felt like a random win more card.

    I played in my 9 rounds of magic:
    1 Bye (how sweet to get that random round 1 bye!)
    3 U/W Control (various forms)
    1 Jund
    3 Polymorph
    1 Summoning Trap

    The Polymorph matchup is pretty easy as you are just a better control deck than they are. They have to combo off eventually to beat you and you just counter their stuff while playing lands and attacking with them.

    Summoning Trap is a little harder as you can't just Telemin's them outta sideboarded games but in the end, it's a good matchup. They don't do anything really relevant and if you know to kill the mana producing walls, you are in good shape.

    Jund: this deck was built to crush that deck... nuff said.

    U/W Control: do they, or do they not get out a quick Gideon that you can't attack into with your man lands. Sideboarded games suck since they have Ascension and you don't really have a way to deal with it. This matchup needs work as Game 1 is usually a one sided blowout in your favor, but the sideboarded games are a mess.

    Let me know what you guys think... Not having real outs to Ascension is a pain and the sideboard really needs to be where you get to attack them.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [Official Thread] Polymorph
    Progenitus has the distinct pleasure of giving your opponent 2 draw steps to rip a TON of answers. He doesn't actually affect a game state outside of just attacking twice and hoping it's enough. He can easily be raced with something as simple as Baneslayer: both players at 20, Baneslayer hits first 25 15, Proggy hits 15 15, Baneslayer hits 20 10, Proggy hits 10 10, Baneslayer hits 15 5, Proggy hits 5 5, Baneslayer hits 10 0 GG Proggy.

    U/R has the distinct disadvantage in that the goblin tokens are terribad at trying to save your life.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [Official Thread] Grixis Control
    Quote from Altaurus321
    I assume Mind Shatter/Spring was tested along with Chalices in someones build? Did they not work out very well cause of the odd mana costs?

    This deck doesn't want mana sources that produce colorless mana. Chalices do nothing to help you cast Cruel, Terminate, Double Negative, etc... Pretty much just a waste of space. Cruel is basically Mind Spring + Mind Shatter.


    This deck needs time to setup and your Spreading Seas provide that time. Yes there is removal to be spent but that's 1 for 1. Spreading Seas can sometimes just win you games because you shut them off key mana and then get to your big spells before they rip out of mana hose. I can't see cutting them, especially with all the man lands out there.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [Official Thread] Grixis Control
    Quote from Altaurus321
    I'm interested in playing this deck in the upcoming couple of tournaments. Which list would everyone suggest as far as being the most tuned/tested?

    I don't know as to how "tuned" decks are going to be but I can say with some certainty that there are a few universal must includes:

    3-4 Jace
    2-4 Terminate
    4 Bolt
    2-4 Consuming Vapors
    0-3 Consume the Meek/0-3 Earthquake or a mixture thereof
    3 Cruels
    4 Spreading Seas
    and the rest of the spells are usually things like Double Negative, Into the Roil, See Beyond, Divination, Negate, Deprive (although I don't suggest Deprive since this deck is all about turn 7 Cruel), Mnemonic Wall, etc..

    26-30 lands

    Sideboard is really where most of the variation occurs. I am not a fan of Duress, never have been. I'm much more a fan of Negates. Ruinblasters are somewhat standard as a hurt Jund's mana base more + it's good against U/W's mana. Lots of choices.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [Official Thread] Polymorph
    I wholeheartedly agree that Awakening Zone is the Bitterblossom of this deck. It's not even close. Unless you are playing a U/W version of Poly (inferior imo), Awakening stone is the corner stone (see that!) of this deck. Generates an infinite number of guys to morph and gives you plenty of chumpers to stave off death. Would be surprised to see this not an auto 3-4 of in all versions.

    Counters are the key to protecting your Polymorph and honestly, you shouldn't be looking to morph early unless pressured or if your opponent taps out like a tard.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [Official Thread] Grixis Control
    I tend to agree that the card draw is a bit of an issue. I definitely like see beyond over divination as it allows you to shuffle away that bad consume the meek or consuming vapors, etc... I may cut a 4th vapors for a third see beyond, but that is yet to be seen (see what I did there?). Or just cut Bolas entirely and go with the 4th Jace. But I really wanna just resolve Bolas.

    I'm very pleased with the Wall and playing 2 was pretty awkward at times. It's mainly there to be Crueled into.

    My sideboard is somewhat awkward but it's a work in progress. Gameday is just a chance for me to test against all the Polymorph decks I expect and whatever else.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [Official Thread] Grixis Control
    Here's the build I'm currently tinkering:

    Now before you all go towards flaming me on Sorin and Bolas, lemme explain.

    Ok.. I don't have a really god explanation outside the fact that I just wanna play those guys. If I were taking this to a real competitive tournament, I'd probably go up to 4 Jaces and the third Double Negative over the other 2 planeswalkers. That being said, I just wanna play them on Gameday this weekend.

    Any tips?
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [Official Thread] Polymorph
    Quote from glassthegrey
    The big Decks in the meta right now are Jund's 3 variants, Naya (Boss variant, and even allies isn't too bad), and Mythic.

    The main problem with Iona is she does nothing to change your opponent's board position. Against jund a Iona naming black (which is almost always the right color to call) still has to race against the board they still have, and deal with the non-black spells it's still casting. Against Mythic even a 3rd turn Iona might not be the biggest creature on the board. after a turn or two. Against Boss Naya there really isn't a good color to call, you name white you still have to deal with the same threat that Mythic is throwing at you... except it has a Basalisk collar on it.

    Emmmy against these matchups give your oppoent exactly 1 turn to not lose to annhilator 6. Some Jund builds run a fleshbag in the board. otherwise they hope they've overan you. Boss Naya has a singleton O-ring which if you've identified your opponent as being boss naya, wait the turn or two you need to combo with into the roil\counter backup. Mythic Has nothing main, and only a day or two in the board. and unlike Iona, that turn 4 emrakul will ALWAYS be the biggest body on the board.

    The main argument for Iona is that she locks the opponent out, which isn't always true. Sure against a mono-colored deck it's a race of their board vs. Iona. but most of these decks are Very aggresive. meaning they've gotten you to 12-10 by the time you've resolved polymorph, and might have the ability to storm you. even if you hold Iona off to block. With a 4th 5th turn Emrakul your opponent's board position doesn't count for poop. Even vampires, assuming gatekeeper didn't resolve, with their nighthawks, still needs a nighthawk, and 6 other permanent's in play for that to matter. you can still swing into that nighthawk and do irreversable damage to the vampire's player's board as they went from 5 lands 3 creatures to 1 land, meanwhile your Emrakul is back in your library ready to be polymorphed out again, even as soon as next turn if you're holding a deprive with a garden on the board.

    And then there is what Annihlator 6 does to 3-colored decks that Iona can't do. best-case scenario for any of these deck is they were able to keep their tri-lands. but usual-case scenario is they got set to 0 and it's impossible to cast spells if you don't have the mana for it.

    The problem with your logic here is that you are basing your opinions on the Pre-ROE metagame. And even then your assumptions are pretty much wrong. Just looking at the 3 online PTQs (and that is a pretty good sample size just based on the attendence), Jund has been getting ROCKED by U/W. It's not even close. The 2 National's qualifiers have shown that Mythic is in fact a force to be reckoned with but we already knew that. Polymoprh is going to warp the format. This forum will be moved to the competitive decks forum VERY soon. It is going to be one of the decks to beat, if not the deck to beat so your assumptions here are pretty far off base.

    Against U/W: Iona kolds them to just 3-4 outs in Jace MD. The matchup is VERY favorable as U/W doesn't do anything that worries you, outside of resolving Jace and you can win that fight. They can NEVER tap out, so their X spells are pretty bad, and if they ever do: you win. Iona wins in this matchup not close.

    Against Jund (what's left of it): Iona kolds them to hoping to draw every SGC BBE and Lightning Bolt to HOPE to race you. This while you are still streaming out chump blockers. I do, however, agree with you that Emrakul is much better in this matchup. It basically kolds all their cards and forces them to hope to kill you in one turn. That being said, an SGC or a couple Thrinaxes and you still might just lose. Emrakul wins in this matchup but just barely.

    Mythic: They run main deck removal now so that makes Emrakul less good. If they run 0 removal you might still lose turn 3 Baneslayer turn 4 Rafiq/Finest Hour although you can always block and kill Baneslayer (as bad as that sounds). The matchup against Mythic Conscription is better since they don't run the Rafiq/Finest Hour extend the hand plan. Bouncing the guy who they use Conscription on is pretty sick. Iona on White is pretty back breaking against this deck also as all their threats have white in the casting cost. Leaves them to Jace outs once again. Iona wins in this matchup.

    Naya: Pretty sure Iona on white leaves them in a pretty awkward spot if they don't have a ton of little guys out. Even if they do, Iona is always bigger. Emrakul ends games faster here but they run O-Rings and that's bad for you. They also might just be able to puke out enough guys to threaten lethal even after being forced to sac 6 permanents. I think this is a pretty even one on Emrakul or Iona.

    RDW: Iona kolds the entire deck, nuff said. They can EASILY kill you before Emrakul ever gets to attack. Iona, not close again.

    U/G Mirror: Iona blue makes it so they can only ever HOPE to hard cast that Emrakul before you kill them. Emrakul leaves them the option of polying your other token and ruining your day. Iona not close.

    U/W/g Mirror: Iona white shuts off removal but leaves them to bounce/Jace outs which is less than ideal but gets the job done often enough. Personally I think this is a bad matchup for U/G since they've got access to better spells overall and can do more things to warp the board in their favor. Emrakul is even WORSE in this matchup because they have both U and W removal for it. Iona not close once again.

    I left out fringe decks but it is pretty clear cut that Iona is the way to go here. 7 decks and Iona is clearly the best in 5 of them, tied in one, and only marginally worse in the other. Albeit the one it's marginally worse in is Jund but it's not to say she's not a house against Jund, it's just saying Emrakul is more of a house. Why play a guy that gives you a better matchup against 35% of the field but hurts you against the other 65% when you can play a guy that's good in all of the matchups.

    I'm also assuming that we are agreeing that 2 of the same is much better than 2 or 3 different guys.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [Official Thread] Polymorph
    Quote from ctorres626
    in the current metagame, which creature is a better target, iona or emrakul in your opinion. jund is the top dog, and u/w is for sure picking up steam and could possibly be the best. also what are your thoughts on deprive ? for my counters md, im running 3 negate, and 2 spell pierce.

    Looking at a possible meta game that is going to be flooded with either Polymorph or U/W, I'd have to say Iona is the stone blade. In the mirror you just name blue and they should be just kold. Against U/W naming white leaves them to Jace outs (game 1) and usually that's just GG. Even game 2 I'd probably still just name white.

    That being said, there is argument for different fatties in the board. I like having some number of Sphinx of the Steel Wind and Emrakul in the sideboard. Emrakul is game over for Jund since they've got 0 ways of actually dealing with him, although I suppose if have like 3 thrinaxes then you might be in trouble after annihilating them.

    Also, pack a good # of Telemin's Performance, I know I will be.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [Development] Sphinx Control
    I had originally used a straight Grixis build in my testing but I found it to be lacking in the ability to clear the board against decks like the R/W deck and Bant. I also came to the conclusion that Ajani Vengeant is too great of a card to not make the deck. It can single handedly win you many of the control matchups and can give you a quick helix effect + a reduction of either a burn spell or a creature's attack against your life total. I also came to realize that Esper Charm is just better than Capsule in every way. More often than not, I just went to tear up my opponent's hand with the Charm and that itself gives me enough reason to be running the white. Also the sideboard options are just better.

    4 Cruels may seem like a bit too many. I know there are times that I wish I had a fourth but I'm also sure that I never want to see 2 of them in my opener. Countersquall over Negate seems awkward because of those times where you don't have a black right away. I also think the random 2 damage is pretty meaningless since random points of damage do not really help you win the game. Sorin seems like an interesting idea to me. I'm not a huge fan of his restrictive CC but you need 3 black to win the game anyway so I guess it's not as restrictive. I like his affect in the aggro matchups and he seems pretty good in the control matchup since he is pretty hard to deal with and Mindslaver has always been a house against control decks.

    Anyway just some of my thoughts.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [Development] Sphinx Control
    Here's a brew that I've been working with:

    It's a modified version of what Chapin posted on Starcitygames.com a few weeks back. I've had a lot of success in testing with this the last few weeks and I'd like to get some feedback from these forums.

    I chose to run the Sphinx of Lost Truths because they were very good at helping you fashion a game winning hand for 5 mana and just plain win you games at 7 mana.

    I think the sideboard is where most of the debate should come with this deck. The main deck is tuned rather well but the sideboard is where games are made or broken. I was very happy with the walls and the spells that were in there for Jund/RW/RDW. I think the anti-control cards could be modified a bit but it worked out pretty well for me this weekend at Gameday.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
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